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Ashcans posted:That's a good point. I actually don't like the intro adventure much at all, partly because of that and also because it's basically the PCs escorting around an NPC who does all the actual stuff. They don't get a lot of agency in the whole thing, which I suppose is ok for a learn-the-system thing but really bugs my players. The intro adventure is pretty solid for getting the themes of the game down. Having a superior officer style NPC who you only have to escort through one very specific part of t he adventure is decent to fall back on if the players are confused/lost. Gravy Train Robber posted:Speaking of Dark Heresy introductions, I was thinking of giving the playtest 2nd Edition rules a spin with the included scenario in the back. Does anyone have any experience/tips with running that scenario? Its not an adventure so much as a bunch of source material for you to make your own potential adventure (with a skeleton framework and plot hooks) so make sure you do enough prep beforehand.
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Aug 23, 2013 16:32
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Thanks everyone! One more question. Have any of you played the buyable campaigns? Are they any good?
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Aug 23, 2013 19:56
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We played through the first chapter of Emperor Protects for Deathwatch and had a blast. It had a couple of odd non-Space Mariney moments, but was overall pretty engaging.
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Aug 24, 2013 15:31
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Suppression shields. What the hell do I do about suppression shields. If I'm reading this right they have absolutely no downsides unless you're melee or using heavy weapons. They just give you extra armor on top of your normal armor without any malus to movement or shooting. Logically, then, the imperial guard, the space marines and every sensible player should be carrying riot shields into battle all the time. This is silly. This isn't the first time I've felt the need to fudge stats either because what's there is often just bad. I hate doing it retroactively because that's kinda obnoxious to my players.
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Aug 26, 2013 06:25
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Elukka posted:Suppression shields. What the hell do I do about suppression shields. Yea I don't know if your aware or not but FFG is horrendously bad at balancing equipment.
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Aug 26, 2013 06:28
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Well, I mean, the simple solution is to remind your players that they're going to be carrying giant, person-sized shields everywhere they go. I mean, they're good and all, but they're not exactly inconspicuous, and you're probably not going to be let into any kind of establishment with a giant, person-sized shield on your back. That said, shields have always been a bit iffy, so if you need to tone them down I guess I couldn't blame you. Edit \/\/\/: By the way, if you haven't looked at the Errata, you probably should. They do tend to have a lot of nice tweaks in there, like to the aforementioned hellguns. I doubt they'll have anything for the suppression shields, but, well, it would still be good to look at for other stuff. Locomotive breath fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Aug 26, 2013 |
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Aug 26, 2013 06:34
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kingcom posted:Yea I don't know if your aware or not but FFG is horrendously bad at balancing equipment.  Yeah, riot shields are just my current problem, but I've run into that plenty. I can't just go "oh but the game design here is kinda bad and I'm gonna have to nerf the gun you bought" every time it comes up. It bothers me when it takes away choice and results in really silly no-brainers like the shields. Nobody in my group is trying to minmax but it's still a problem. Sometimes I feel like I should just say the item stats in the books don't exist and come up with replacements but I'm not sure I'm up to that and I'd kinda expect the game designers to have done it right in the first place. Locomotive breath posted:Well, I mean, the simple solution is to remind your players that they're going to be carrying giant, person-sized shields everywhere they go. I mean, they're good and all, but they're not exactly inconspicuous, and you're probably not going to be let into any kind of establishment with a giant, person-sized shield on your back. Also, don't suppression shields take up a hand? If so, only pistols unless they've got a way of getting around that. I mean, they're really good and all, but they're not totally without downside. Also, the AP they give might be primitive, so it would be halved if you're using basic RT rules, as opposed to BC/OW. Elukka fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Aug 26, 2013 |
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Aug 26, 2013 06:35
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My players are in the underhive looking to sell some drugs to finance their operation. They decide that hiring a local bum to set them up with a dealer is a great idea, so I have the bum double-cross them: the dealer gives him money to arrange an ambush for them at a meet in a back alley. Steal the drugs, kill the out of town bozos. Bum tells the players, "the dealer will meet you in two hours time at this and this place." Players go, "Okay, we'll go there right away and set up an ambush for them." Lesson learned: don't give the players spare time. They even had the forethought to be sneaky so any possible spotters placed there beforehand couldn't have noticed them. But the party psyker wound up terrifying the gangsters into making GBS threads their pants, so it was a fun encounter for everyone. However, they've been noodling around instead of focusing on the case properly, and that needs to backfire on them next time. If you don't get your hands on the cultists carrying out weird experiments, the weird experiments will get their hands on you. 
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Aug 26, 2013 10:35
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For something described as a "heavy slab of ceramite", suppression shields normally are remarkably lightweight.
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Aug 26, 2013 12:10
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I have an Only War question, specifically regarding the Grenadier regiment type from Hammer of the Emperor. This sort of unit seems like it should be carrying around more than a few grenades, considering that the entire unit has auxiliary grenade launchers and two spare stand-alone grenade launchers. However, the entry says that Grenadiers receive "one additional frag and krak grenade per Player Character." No other regimental option phrases a grenade allocation this way - what are those grenades in addition to? I'm sure this is just lousy editing, but are you all aware of an official fix or clarification for this? If not, what sounds like a good house ruling? I was tempted to just give each PC three frags and three kraks, since that's what the example Grenadier regiment has. On a related and final note, do the two stand-alone grenade launchers that come with a Grenadier squad have their own ammo supply, or are you meant to just use them with the standard PC grenade allocation? This is a lot of questions, but I've found it very confusing!
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Aug 27, 2013 03:25
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Emerald Rogue posted:I have an Only War question, specifically regarding the Grenadier regiment type from Hammer of the Emperor. This sort of unit seems like it should be carrying around more than a few grenades, considering that the entire unit has auxiliary grenade launchers and two spare stand-alone grenade launchers. However, the entry says that Grenadiers receive "one additional frag and krak grenade per Player Character." The "one additional" is referring to whatever else you spend your spare regiment points on to equip them since you can use those points on grenades.
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Aug 27, 2013 03:37
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Plus squad weapons like the grenade launchers I think come with at least two reloads each. So it ends up being an awful lot of grenades, just not ones you can throw aside from the 'additional' ones you mentioned. Ed: that's assuming the squad launchers are the drum fed ones and not single shot thump thumps.
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Aug 27, 2013 03:56
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kingcom posted:The "one additional" is referring to whatever else you spend your spare regiment points on to equip them since you can use those points on grenades. That makes sense - I guess I was just thrown because none of the other regiment options phrase it like that. It's all just "two frag and two krak grenades." Pharmaskittle posted:Plus squad weapons like the grenade launchers I think come with at least two reloads each. So it ends up being an awful lot of grenades, just not ones you can throw aside from the 'additional' ones you mentioned. That also makes sense. I'll reread the relevant sections and the errata and see what works best. Thanks, everyone!
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Aug 27, 2013 12:42
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The aux. launcher should probably come loaded, possibly with a couple of extras. Weapon specialists also start with 4 extra grenades. If we build a grenadier regiment where the regimental favoured weapon is a grenade launcher and the regiment has well provisioned as equipment doctrine, you could quite easily end up with a weapon specialist carrying 4(specialist)+2(grenadier)+2(Well provisioned)+1(aux launcher)+6(grenade launcher)+12(two reloads)+2(additional frags at regimental creation) = 29 grenades. And that's before they've made any requisition rolls or received mission equipment.
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Aug 27, 2013 13:20
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goatface posted:The aux. launcher should probably come loaded, possibly with a couple of extras. Weapon specialists also start with 4 extra grenades. So what you are saying is, you don't want to get shot by anything when in that regiment. What's the rule on grenades exploding on your person?
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Aug 27, 2013 15:33
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:So what you are saying is, you don't want to get shot by anything when in that regiment. What's the rule on grenades exploding on your person? 10 critical energy damage to the body detonates all your ammunition 
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Aug 27, 2013 15:40
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That's why you never have one person carry the whole squad's supply of detpacks.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:14
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goatface posted:That's why you never have one person carry the whole squad's supply of detpacks. Or you always do since a ten point crit will kill that guy anyway.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:31
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It's more that they'll also probably kill everyone else within 30 metres.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:38
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Sounds like a great way to end a PbP game...
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Aug 27, 2013 19:47
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So, question for people with the Navis Primer. Looking through the Warp Incursions table, I see the Warp Monster result is to be fought by the ship. First: They can't look out at it, because it would cause them to go crazy from seeing the warp. How do they aim the guns, and how do they know what it is? Second: The easiest stats for the monster are given as "Automatic hit at Strength 3, 1d10+2 Damage, and a Crit Rating of 5." What the hell do the Strength and Crit Rating do if there's no roll made for the attack? Since unless I'm missing something, they only dictate things based off of the degrees of success on the roll it makes to attack the ship. Can anyone clear that up for me?
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Aug 29, 2013 19:52
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Does it have a crew competence stat? If yes, it means the GM rolls normally but treats any failure as a pass with no degrees of success. If not, those stats are basically window dressing and the monster is almost completely harmless with it's single 1d10+2 hit per turn that can be completely ignored by everything with a void shield or 12+ armor(literally every ship in the book)
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Aug 29, 2013 22:40
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Signal posted:First: They can't look out at it, because it would cause them to go crazy from seeing the warp. How do they aim the guns, and how do they know what it is?
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Aug 29, 2013 22:57
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Asehujiko posted:Does it have a crew competence stat? If yes, it means the GM rolls normally but treats any failure as a pass with no degrees of success. If not, those stats are basically window dressing and the monster is almost completely harmless with it's single 1d10+2 hit per turn that can be completely ignored by everything with a void shield or 12+ armor(literally every ship in the book) Nope, no crew competence stat. Not really certain what to do with that, other than maybe give it a 40 and hand-wave it. It does ignore void shields though. Maybe I'll just have it ignore armor too? And I'm fairly certain that sensors are shut down during void travel. Something about the Navigator's sanctum being the only place that looks outside the ship at all.
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Aug 30, 2013 01:28
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Eldar ships are really glass cannons, I was pleasantly impressed when the Sword of Elissar (a Void Dragon class cruiser) did 50+ points of hull damage to my players' souped-up Lunar in two rounds (surprise + initiative) but was surprised when my players Crippled it in a single broadside. They rolled well and it's good they did, or they would have had some even bigger problems than a bunch of depressurized compartments. My players were a little upset at the amount of damage they took in the first two rounds but came together with a plan to overcome their situation, and executed it better than even they expected. Then they tried to delicately hulk the Eldar ship to plunder it and rolled a Plasma Drive Overload, lol. A perfect encapsulation of Rogue Trader, really. I guess the question now is whether or not I can write a feud to match the intensity of my players' gloating hails to their dying enemies
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Aug 30, 2013 13:57
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My horrible monster of a Genetor managed to snag himself a Dark Eldar Scissorhand from Honest John's (TM) Black Market in our last session of RT  Can't wait to smack some poor unsuspecting schmuck with it, with my unnatural strenght from best quality synth muscles and ridiculous base strenght (over 60) it's gonna hurt a lot. If my DM lets me get Blackbone Bracing's damage bonus to unarmed attacks to that also I'm gonna be hitting for 3d5+14 Pen2 with Tearing with that thing, +12 if no Blackbone Bracing bonus. Finally a potential way to get targets unconscious without killing them! No longer trying to shoot people in the legs with inferno pistols and hoping it doesn't do quite enough damage to kill them, but merely just enough to knock them unconscious from the shock of losing a leg (our group is really bad at taking people in alive). Now just, uh, going to have to hope that I don't do enough damage to instagib them. Which I'm probably going to do to any human enemies thanks to being a horrible monster. Next session gonna own, there's probably going to be a duel between our power armour clad Missionary and an ork pirate Kaptin in mega-armor (who is an official long time guest on our ship), plotting to catch a heretical girl band in the act of doing unforgivable heresy, show-matches on our new Resolution Arena and of course the grand finale of the Koronus Expanse tour of the heretical girl band, a gig on a planet filled with ancient xenos ruins. I have a sneaking suspicion everything is going to go horribly wrong at some point or other. Hopefully a massive showdown against the heretical girl band at the end of their gig.
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Aug 30, 2013 14:58
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I honestly have no idea what the rules for Shields really are in Only War but in my game they add 2 points of armor to the hand that holds it and the body. The entire party has shields as part of their regimental kit so it's a lot of armor. Anyway, I don't consider too OP since 1)everyone has the option so I'm not trying to overcome one unusually tough guardsman and 2) no one has started shooting basic weapons with the one handed penalty. I really think I'd just tell them not to do it. These guys are advanced enough now that a -10 to hit is not a huge deal. Anyway, is there a better autogun in one of the source books, maybe from rogue trader? I'm looking for something high level, on par with like a boltgun/hellgun/plasma gun but using the SP talent. I know there's a rogue trader source book that is almost entirely weapons and other items, but I don't have the books with me and since I'm the GM I don't want to slow the start of the next session down by scrutinizing books for an item I don't even know exists.
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Sep 4, 2013 03:49
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SP weapons are meant to be the cheap, chearful and common ones, so until you hit the heavies their stats never get that good (apart from outliers like sniper rifles). There's a variety of special ammunition you can use to give autoguns and shotguns improved stats though. Modified bolter shells can be used in shotguns to give them 1d10+5E, pen 4, tearing, +30 range, but at the cost of scatter and a step down in reliability. Some of those in an automatic shotgun is pretty nice, arguably heretical though. Manstopper rounds can give an autogun pen 3, but that's about the best you're going to get The only SP weapon I can think of that approaches hellgun/plasma gun levels is the (Rogue Trader) Ripper Pistol, which is a semi-auto pistol with penetration 7 and the Tearing and Toxic qualities. You can't put any special ammo in it though.
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Sep 4, 2013 12:25
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Some of the later Dark Heresy (1st edition) books have guns that might fit your needs. For example, the Vox Legi assault shotgun from the Book of Judgement does 1d10+9 pen 0 damage, with semi-auto, reliable and scatter, and can use special shotgun ammo. Another even more amusing alternative, also from DH, is the Hell Rifle (not a hellgun, but a similarly named SP basic weapon) from Daemon Hunter. 300m range, 2d10+4, pen 7, felling 2. Not rapid fire, but can also use special ammo. Of course, the easiest solution would be to simply give them a heavy weapon. Autocannons are nasty.
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Sep 4, 2013 18:15
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The Armageddon Autogun from Inquisitor's Handbook is my to go SP weapon for "better" enemies because it does an extra point of damage and can be filled with Manstoppers for Pen 3.
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Sep 4, 2013 18:32
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Thanks for all the input, guys. I agree that SP weapons are meant to be cheap and common, but I have a player that wields a lascannon (oh yeah!) and a lasgun (hmmn...) at a time when literally every other player has upgraded their basic weapon to something nasty. This particular player doesn't have the drive to obsess over new gear but I think I can steer her towards a better gun if I make it a role play thing. Boltgun would be my compliment of choice to a lascannon but I don't know if she can use them. Hellgun is obvious for upgrading lasgun but I just wanted to explore my options. I do love that we have such a wealth of weird guns in the supplements.
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Sep 4, 2013 18:39
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So how exactly does damage resolution work? Any damage dealt after Toughness and AP is done to wounds, right, and then any further damage after all wounds are used deal damage how exactly? My group was just stuck blasting repeatedly at these now-crippled invalids because we couldn't do enough damage to get a fatal critical wound roll.
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Sep 7, 2013 07:40
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It's the total of critical damage that matters. Someone takes 2 Critical Damage, you read off the "2" damage result. They take 3 more, and now you read off the "5" result.
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Sep 7, 2013 07:48
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:So how exactly does damage resolution work? Any damage dealt after Toughness and AP is done to wounds, right, and then any further damage after all wounds are used deal damage how exactly? My group was just stuck blasting repeatedly at these now-crippled invalids because we couldn't do enough damage to get a fatal critical wound roll. Crit damage on individual body parts stack. If you have a one point crit to the body, another two point crit to the body will make a three point crit. A two point crit to the leg will just be a two point crit. Honestly though, just let your monsters die if they're injured enough to be ineffective.
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Sep 7, 2013 07:48
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Pharmaskittle posted:Crit damage on individual body parts stack. If you have a one point crit to the body, another two point crit to the body will make a three point crit. A two point crit to the leg will just be a two point crit. Honestly though, just let your monsters die if they're injured enough to be ineffective. I'm pretty sure crit damage just works like normal damage, actually, in that it's a pool. So say you hit someone and do 2 crit damage to their body, and then hit them in the leg and deal 3 damage, you'd instead go to the 5 crit entry, rather than the 3, since it's cumulative for the entire body, rather than the individual limbs. At least, that's how I've always seen it done. But yeah, just think of crit damage kind of like wounds, SUPER NEAT TOY. It doesn't go away after each attack, it sticks around and get worse.
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Sep 7, 2013 08:04
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Locomotive breath posted:I'm pretty sure crit damage just works like normal damage, actually, in that it's a pool. So say you hit someone and do 2 crit damage to their body, and then hit them in the leg and deal 3 damage, you'd instead go to the 5 crit entry, rather than the 3, since it's cumulative for the entire body, rather than the individual limbs. At least, that's how I've always seen it done. Huh. While I won't stop using our way (except for mooks because who cares), I'd love word from someone who has a book handy. Honestly, my group has been playing 40KRPG for like five years or something, so we probably have a ton of house rules so ingrained that we don't know the difference between them and RAW.
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Sep 7, 2013 08:13
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Quick skim of books suggests that's how they work in every game. Crit 2 on a leg followed by 3 damage to an arm means crit 5 on the arm. Most games have the option of/recommend that generic enemies follow the "sudden death" critical rules, where any critical outright kills them. Only significant enemies should actually have to work their way down the crit table. Just assume the party are walking around and executing the unconscious/massively wounded enemies before they leave.
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Sep 7, 2013 12:32
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I tend to just have mooks die at 0 wounds and give them some extra wounds to compensate. Saves time.
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Sep 7, 2013 12:58
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goatface posted:Quick skim of books suggests that's how they work in every game. Crit 2 on a leg followed by 3 damage to an arm means crit 5 on the arm.
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Sep 7, 2013 13:14
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What do further points in a weapon mastery accomplish? Void-Masters, for example, start with Melee Weapon Training (Universal) and can apparently buy it, but I don't see any bonuses listed for having it twice?
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Sep 7, 2013 14:29
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