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ed balls balls man posted:Man that book could have been 350 pages of dicks and just the assault on Angron and I would have been happy. One of the greatest scenes even written by a BL author no doubt. Back during their Dawn of War II Let's Play coolguye and TheLastRoboKy both talked about the Grey Knights and how awesome they were, but I had never read a Grey Knights book until The Emperor's Gift. Yes, that scene is absolutely amazing and basically sold me on the Grey Knights forever. "The battle started to the sounds of thousands of daemons screaming..."
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Sep 9, 2013 18:19
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My favorite part was Bjorn being all
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Sep 9, 2013 20:07
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VanSandman posted:ADB makes each character have a voice, even if that voice is filled with only hate. I'd love for him to do a short story where you get Kharn being Kharn and attacking his own allies, then a flashback to some interaction between Kharn and the dude he is stabbing in the back. Preferably pre-Angron, when the World Eaters were still the War Hounds. Reading Betrayer was like an endless series of punches in the gut, since I'd read After Desh'ea right before it. The difference in both Kharn and Angron between the two stories is heartbreaking.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:21
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VanSandman posted:It seems to me that if humanity's evolutionary destiny is to all become psykers, then they'll need to evolve something like the Eldar's 'no chaos craziness' gene. Anything in the fluff about that at all? No such thing. Why do you think the Eldar fell and why do you think the Dark Eldar are as they are now? While the Craftworlders and Exodites broke away and changed their ways the Commorites are a linear continuation of the pre-fall Eldar society. That they don't physically mutate in the same way humans do does not mean a lack of corruption, spiritual or physical. Their mania for self-mutilation and extreme body modification are their own version of the (un)natural alterations chaos causes in humans. And Craftworlders can certainly be corrupted into becoming Dark Eldar (or perhaps more commonly pirates). I'm not sure if that is explicitly written down anywhere (other than the Ranger who went to Commorragh in the DE trilogy) , but I heard it from the mouth of Phil Kelly.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:30
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They still don't cause greater daemons to burst forth and devour everyone when they use their mind bullets to kill things though.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:35
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VanSandman posted:They still don't cause greater daemons to burst forth and devour everyone when they use their mind bullets to kill things though. If you were a infinitely old super-species creating an artificial race of psychic soldiers for use against another race of omnicidal entropy worshipers and their hateful star-gods, you wouldn't make one that backfired every time it killed something. (And really, the Old Ones were weaponizing the Eldar pantheon, not the race itself.)
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Sep 9, 2013 20:42
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VanSandman posted:They still don't cause greater daemons to burst forth and devour everyone when they use their mind bullets to kill things though. I always took that as being due to the Eldar way of compartmentalizing themselves using the Paths. They never put all of themselves into anything, which allows them to avoid the dangers of being too open to the Warp. Humans, on the other hand, are all too willing to devote themselves wholeheartedly to the emotions of the moment, leaving a place for the daemons to slip in. This also neatly solves the conundrum of why human psykers, despite their lack of skill compared to Eldar, can match them power for power when it comes to the cruder methods of exerting their will on the world.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:52
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And the reason the DE don't burst forth daemons is because they are so terrified of the consequences of using their psychic powers (never having learnt the control of the paths) that they deliberately allow them to atrophy to uselessness. And Vect is, if anything, even more hardcore on chasing down rogue psykers within his realm than the Inquisition is in the Imperium.
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Sep 9, 2013 21:00
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Kenlon posted:Reading Betrayer was like an endless series of punches in the gut, since I'd read After Desh'ea right before it. The difference in both Kharn and Angron between the two stories is heartbreaking. The part that hit me was when Argel Tal was talking with Kharn. quote:'We're definitely on the wrong side, Kharn.'
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Sep 9, 2013 21:07
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So I finished the first of the Gaunt's Ghosts books and while I enjoyed it there was a plot hole or two I noticed. Maybe I missed something along the way but it seemed really weird to me that at the end they fought through a horde of cultists to reach the STC yet the same cultists who were clearly protecting the STC never used it to revive the Men of Iron, I mean producing an endless army of tainted MoI seems like something they would be all over. So was that a hole or was there a legitimate reason not to use them? Maybe because of something relating to the necrons?
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Sep 10, 2013 01:34
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In addition to the other reasons given for the eldar's apparent resistance to chaos corruption, you also have to keep in mind that the eldar as we know them are the descendants of what were essentially the puritans of their race, the extreme fundies who said "Our sinful society is going to sin its way to Armageddon so we're gonna make some arks and sail away and have ourselves a virtuous and pure society of strict living and self-control!" That of course in addition to their rigorous paths which can take centuries to master, advanced brains that allow for more precise and steady use of psychic energies, and hundreds of years of feeling a tiny, almost intangible tugging at one's soul and knowing that that's the inescapable tug of the terrifying evil ancient thing whose maw your soul's gonna plunge into at the moment of your inevitable death (unless it an be caught by a soul stone)... makes them pretty used to the whole "resisting the pull of chaos" thing.
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Sep 10, 2013 02:17
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:So I finished the first of the Gaunt's Ghosts books and while I enjoyed it there was a plot hole or two I noticed. It's been a while since I read that, but cultists don't really have the means or the knowhow to use it, unless they have the Dark Mechanicum on board. The rogue Imperial elements could.
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Sep 10, 2013 02:47
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Schneider Heim posted:It's been a while since I read that, but cultists don't really have the means or the knowhow to use it, unless they have the Dark Mechanicum on board. The rogue Imperial elements could. What exactly is an STC? I can never tell if it's just some massive computing machine that fabricates technology or a repository of all of humanity's knowledge from the Dark Age. The fluff always mentions "hard copies" of STC plans so it must have made physical objects in some form or printed out schematics. One quote that stuck out from the HH books was when they were besieging the Auretians someone mentioned how their STC would allow them to keep making more advanced weapons to counter what the Legions were using.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:29
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It's both. a full STC machine is a combination repository of all knowledge and cornucopia machine. The Imperium finding a complete STC machine (not just a template) is one of the endgame scenarios for 40k.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:16
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An STC can do a few things: 1. Construct objects. 2. Print blueprints for said objects. And if you get a fully intact one: 3. Make anything you can design.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:44
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:The Imperium finding a complete STC machine (not just a template) is one of the endgame scenarios for 40k.
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Sep 10, 2013 15:08
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Craftworld Eldar: everyone dies creating a new god of death to beat up Slaanesh. Necrons: everyone wakes up and kills anything that isn't a Necron. Tyranids: omnomnomnom times a billion. Tau: survive.
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Sep 10, 2013 15:45
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^^^^ "Endgame" stuff is just fan theories to allow a faction to win. People should stop saying it in here just so he doesn't go off on one of his truth-hunts again. thespaceinvader posted:IIRC, there used to be more, but for various reasons there aren't any more, and there are a couple that are different in 40k versus fantasy. Malal (god of atheism) is so mired in copyright disputes (appropriately enough) that no-one can ever use him. The Horned Rat is one of the fantasy ones. There are a bunch of minor ones. Then the Eldar had I think 4 gods, of whom only two remain (the Laughing God, Khaine, the creation maiden who is now Nurgle's 'bride', and one other). There are a lot of gods, both major and minor. And that's ignoring Gork and Mork. Azran posted:Monkey. VanSandman posted:It seems to me that if humanity's evolutionary destiny is to all become psykers, then they'll need to evolve something like the Eldar's 'no chaos craziness' gene. Anything in the fluff about that at all?
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Sep 10, 2013 15:48
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Why did I just realize this.
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Are the Word Bearer Heresy books any good? A friend of mine has a 'First Heretic' copy I can borrow, but after reading that the Word Bearer Dark Apostle/Disciple/Creed trilogy is awful so I'm a bit wary.
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Sep 10, 2013 17:45
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That Black Templar fluff change kind of sucks. It was always cool that the BT were the result of the Imperial Fists going gently caress the codex gently caress this poo poo we want to crusade and just continuing the Emperor's great crusade and the legion mentality. All the fluff that was being built up through the novels and codices prior to this one were establishing the Imperial founding chapters are pretty sneakily being able to deploy at legion strength (Ultramarines+Successors, Dark Angels+Successors, Black Templars, Space Wolves) which is a fun end game scenario to think about. The Templars only being 1000 marines makes less sense given the rest of their fluff. In their last codicies they had tons of recruiting worlds, chapter keeps, and crusades putzing around.
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Sep 10, 2013 17:47
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'Nids ate 'em.
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Sep 10, 2013 17:55
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Sephyr posted:Are the Word Bearer Heresy books any good? A friend of mine has a 'First Heretic' copy I can borrow, but after reading that the Word Bearer Dark Apostle/Disciple/Creed trilogy is awful so I'm a bit wary. The First Heretic is one of the absolute best HH books around. Basically anything by ADB is gonna be great.
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Sep 10, 2013 17:57
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Yeah, the reason any 40K book is awful rarely if ever has anything to do with the protagonists, and almost everything to do with the author. See also: Salamanders. Different subject: The thing I think that makes all the "what's the endgame??" chat seem more important/valid than just fanwank (at least to the fanwankers) is that GW themselves keep wink-wink-nudge-nudge-say-no-moreing in the direction of an endgame. It's like, they want to set up this universe of stagnation, paralyzed by there being ONLY WAR, and that's pretty cool on its own. But for some reason they can't stop themselves from putting apocalypses right over the horizon. The thirteenth black crusade is here, could this be the end of everything?? Heh as if you'll ever find out. Wouldn't it be cooler to just have another ten thousand years (and another, and another...) of figurative and literal hell? What I'm saying is that the entire concept of "endgame" seems to go against the whole ethos of the setting, but GW themselves keep trying to sneak it in the backdoor, so fans join in. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 17:58
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Actually having now read the codex itself, I guess it could lean in the direction that the BT have only 1000 marines, but it doesn't really say that. Though there is also no mention of them pissing off the Inquisition with their boss amounts of marines and accounting tricks.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:47
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I've always imagined them to be like the Wolves, probably 1300/1500~.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:58
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Jerkface posted:Actually having now read the codex itself, I guess it could lean in the direction that the BT have only 1000 marines, but it doesn't really say that. Though there is also no mention of them pissing off the Inquisition with their boss amounts of marines and accounting tricks. I thought the Inquisition had their doubts about it, but was generally cool with the BTs because of their dedication to the Emperor and hatred of psykers.
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Sep 10, 2013 19:18
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ed balls balls man posted:I've always imagined them to be like the Wolves, probably 1300/1500~. I always thought of grimaldus's "crusade" being 1000 strong and there being hundreds of them flying around the galaxy. Am I wrong? It's been a while since helsreach
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Sep 10, 2013 19:21
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spootime posted:I always thought of grimaldus's "crusade" being 1000 strong and there being hundreds of them flying around the galaxy. Am I wrong? It's been a while since helsreach Helsreach was roughly a company sized engagement IIRC, it's been a while for me as well! But there were other Templars in space with Helbrecht. If I remember the listing in the Armageddon Codex from years ago it was listed as three crusades, with him and two other Marshalls leading them. This is all off the top of my head so could be completely wrong.
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Sep 10, 2013 19:28
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Yeah, it was a company. I think I recall that a "Crusade" is the term for a BT company?
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Sep 10, 2013 20:02
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ed balls balls man posted:I've always imagined them to be like the Wolves, probably 1300/1500~. Space wolves are roughly 10 times that number, I think.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:23
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JerryLee posted:What I'm saying is that the entire concept of "endgame" seems to go against the whole ethos of the setting, but GW themselves keep trying to sneak it in the backdoor, so fans join in.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:24
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VanSandman posted:Space wolves are roughly 10 times that number, I think. Yeah, each great company is chapter sized.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:39
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Its 100 Marines with Grimaldus in Helsreach on the ground. There are lots more in Space loving about. The 4thE codex says they are rumored to be about 5 times the size of a normal chapter. The Arm. Codex from 3E has each crusade as 'several hundred Marines'. Putting the total number of Templars around ~10k which is 'original legion' strength on the old fluff and like 10-20% of legion strength based on the new more sane numbers.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:44
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VanSandman posted:Craftworld Eldar: everyone dies creating a new god of death to beat up Slaanesh.
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Sep 10, 2013 22:36
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Arquinsiel posted:^^^^ The Eldar one is actually true though. Bear Retrieval Unit posted:I never got why this is a big deal, Slaanesh tore up almost the entire Eldar pantheon right after being born, why would this new god have a chance? The god that the Eldar are trying to spawn is Y'nnead, God of the Dead who's essentially powered by every dead Eldar ever. Even if he doesn't manage to defeat Slaanesh, he just needs to be strong enough to recover and reincarnate all the souls of the Eldar so they don't get tortured and eaten up.
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Sep 10, 2013 22:55
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Yeah, each great company is chapter sized. Where is that mentioned? Haven't read the last couple of codex, so maybe I'm a bit out of date, but never thought them to be that big.
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Sep 11, 2013 00:01
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Can I read the Sabbat Worlds Anthology even if I've only read up to the first Gaunt's Ghosts omnibus? (up to Necropolis) If not, at what point should I grab it up?
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Sep 11, 2013 02:31
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Schneider Heim posted:Can I read the Sabbat Worlds Anthology even if I've only read up to the first Gaunt's Ghosts omnibus? (up to Necropolis) If not, at what point should I grab it up? Eh I think there are some spoilers in there, so you'd best read atleast the first 3 collections
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Sep 11, 2013 02:53
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Kegslayer posted:The Eldar one is actually true though. Schneider Heim posted:Can I read the Sabbat Worlds Anthology even if I've only read up to the first Gaunt's Ghosts omnibus? (up to Necropolis) If not, at what point should I grab it up?
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Sep 11, 2013 03:17
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Angry Lobster posted:Where is that mentioned? Haven't read the last couple of codex, so maybe I'm a bit out of date, but never thought them to be that big.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:25
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