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EO relies pretty heavily on simpler designs that use bright colors (and palette swaps), so it was a lot easier for them to make good looking models for it. SMT, not so much. I wouldn't have minded if the demon sprites had, like, actual attack animations or whatever though. I think more characters should have had portraits.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:45
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How many endings are there in SMT4? I got the destroy everything in a black hole and the overrun mikado with demons and become its king endings, is there just one more (law)? Or are their different tiers of bad/good endings like every other japanese rpg has?
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Sep 9, 2013 22:50
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gobbledygoat posted:How many endings are there in SMT4? I got the destroy everything in a black hole and the overrun mikado with demons and become its king endings, is there just one more (law)? Or are their different tiers of bad/good endings like every other japanese rpg has? 4 - there's also a neutral ending.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:53
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Okay, I thought maybe the "bad end" was the neutral one but that clears that up. I didn't realize there was a real neutral one because most of the game feels pretty split between law/chaos. But I'm new to SMT so maybe neutral is always subdued. Also it was way easier than I expected. Guess I have to play on expert now 
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Sep 9, 2013 22:56
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The SMT series has been pretty constant in that Law and Chaos are both extremes to the point of being dumb with neutral being generally the most reasonable option.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:00
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I thought chaos was being pretty reasonable until they started discussing flooding the world with demons That and Jonathan is a god drat twat.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:02
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Realise this is old news to most people in this thread but people seem to enjoy when people chime in threads with their impressions of games. Still playing Persona 3, I now know why everyone seems to hate Ken, or at least I think I do he just got Shinjiro killed, not sure why they gave me him as a team member only to kill him off without even letting me use him in a boss fight. Don't see how he could do anything worse in the future. Can anyone give me a non spoilery idea how much longer this game is? Still don't understand Strega at all either. In fact it feels like the basic plot has barely gotten started but I'm in October now and I assume it's a year like Persona 4, also starting to reach the end of lots of S-links.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:04
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thebardyspoon posted:In fact it feels like the basic plot has barely gotten started but I'm in October now and I assume it's a year like Persona 4 The Problem With Persona 3.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:05
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thebardyspoon posted:Realise this is old news to most people in this thread but people seem to enjoy when people chime in threads with their impressions of games. Still playing Persona 3, I now know why everyone seems to hate Ken, or at least I think I do he just got Shinjiro killed, not sure why they gave me him as a team member only to kill him off without even letting me use him in a boss fight. Don't see how he could do anything worse in the future. Can anyone give me a non spoilery idea how much longer this game is? Still don't understand Strega at all either. In fact it feels like the basic plot has barely gotten started but I'm in October now and I assume it's a year like Persona 4, also starting to reach the end of lots of S-links. The game ends at the end of January.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:05
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ImpAtom posted:The game ends at the end of January. Well poo poo, best get a move on with the S-links I give a poo poo about. There's no alternate ending gubbins I'll have to keep in mind is there? alcharagia posted:The Problem With Persona 3. Yeah I had a feeling this might have been regarded as a flaw for P3 and not just my personal opinion (was worried that I had a disc that was skipping every other cutscene or something actually).
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Sep 9, 2013 23:10
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thebardyspoon posted:Well poo poo, best get a move on with the S-links I give a poo poo about. There's no alternate ending gubbins I'll have to keep in mind is there? There is a "bad ending" where you missing the last month or so, but the flags to get or avoid it are really, really, obvious.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:19
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There's an alternate ending, but getting it is very obvious so you don't have to worry about missing it. Whether you'll actually want to see it is a different story, though. P3 has without a doubt the worst pacing I've ever seen in a video game, though. I didn't like P4's plot as much, but at least it didn't have months and months of absolutely nothing happening.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:20
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I decided to continue going down this SMT hole and have started to play Strange Journey. Besides any general tips you can give, I'm wondering about this password system I just unlocked. With this, could I just get passwords online and get really broken demons early? Now obviously they would have to be at or under my current level, but I know there are ways to get really good skills on lower-level demons. Also, how can I get more copies of sources I already have? Can I get copies of the same source, or are these basically one-time use?
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Sep 11, 2013 01:55
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Also, how can I get more copies of sources I already have? Can I get copies of the same source, or are these basically one-time use? Get rid of the demon, buy it back, and level it up again. The best tip you can get about Strange Journey is don't play it. Second best tip you can get is that the random encounters are not the issue, and you should get the app that turns them off as soon as possible to get through the nightmarish hellscapes that game calls dungeons as quickly as possible.
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Sep 11, 2013 01:57
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alcharagia posted:Get rid of the demon, buy it back, and level it up again. I cheated and the hellish dungeons were still a slog.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:00
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I wouldn't mind turning off random encounters, but wouldn't that make me really weak for the bosses?
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Sep 11, 2013 02:10
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I wouldn't mind turning off random encounters, but wouldn't that make me really weak for the bosses? Just grind in front of the boss room or something, they'll ruin you either way really.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:11
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alcharagia posted:Get rid of the demon, buy it back, and level it up again. Isn't that app only obtainable in NG+? I used it all the time when I got it but slogging through the last dungeons was still annoying as gently caress. I remember making the most broken Huang Long in that game so at least I got some enjoyment from murdering every boss they threw at me.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:15
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Marogareh posted:Isn't that app only obtainable in NG+? ...You're right, it is! Huh, I'd totally forgotten. You should still get the one that cuts it by about 2/3 or so, though, because that'll still remove a massive amount of encounter tedium.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:16
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Wait, isn't SJ supposed to be considered the best SMT game? At least, it's what someone else told me that's what other people think.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:29
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wait, isn't SJ supposed to be considered the best SMT game? At least, it's what someone else told me that's what other people think. That someone else must hang out with a lot of masochists.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:33
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SJ doesn't even have that high of an encounter rate, I had to run around in dark tiles for 10 extra steps to simulate the regular SMT encounter frequency.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:35
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wait, isn't SJ supposed to be considered the best SMT game? At least, it's what someone else told me that's what other people think. Eh. The problem with SJ is its dungeon design-- it's got a lot of traditionally sadistic moves but the way it does its dungeons is generally 'and now it's time for this gimmick' and procedurally works through them to death. It's a game that understands its roots but I don't feel like it's able to work with them well.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:36
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The story also doesn't make up for the lovely boring dungeon design either.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:37
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wait, isn't SJ supposed to be considered the best SMT game? At least, it's what someone else told me that's what other people think. SJ is pretty divisive. It's kind of a love-it-or-hate-it type of thing. Most of the complaints about the game revolve around the dungeon design, which is very much in the vein of old-school dungeon crawlers. The dungeons are not bad though, in fact they're pretty great, with lots of secrets and tricks and traps and that sort of thing--if you're a fan of old-school dungeon crawlers (Wizardry, Bard's Tale, etc) which admittedly not a lot of people are. If you like that type of game you'll probably love the hell out of SJ. If you don't, you may hate it.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:42
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I'm odd. I loved SJ and its story. But it's definitely not for everyone and I've found that it is very much love or hate.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:52
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wait, isn't SJ supposed to be considered the best SMT game? At least, it's what someone else told me that's what other people think. Some people think it's exceptionally hard but the difficult is seriously overblown. It's very much a pure dungeon crawler and it encourages switching your builds up a lot but it really isn't that hard a game.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:06
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My problem with Strange Journey is that is that they decided not to use the press turn system but I feel like the game was originally balanced to have it in place. Instead it does a thing where if you exploit a weakness demons near you/that you understand more (because you have them in your party or killed them a lot in battle) have a high bonus attack on whatever you exploited the weakness of. I feel like they didn't effectively balance everything to take this into account. You can grind in that first dungeon for a few hours and even with the optimal demons and exploiting weaknesses the weakest enemies will crush you. It gets much easier as the game goes on but I feel like it has the roughest beginning of the PS2 and up games in the franchise. The dungeons are amazing and the atmosphere of the game is incredible but the aforementioned restrictive combat combined with uninteresting main character development (you answer a few questions at the beginning and that sets your stat growth for the rest of the game, with just different ammo types in place of magic) make it kind of a slog. I'd kill for another take on it on the 3DS with more enjoyable combat and some of the technical limitations of the DS Etrian Odyssey engine removed (better draw distance etc.). Overall I liked the game quite a bit but it really is brutal how even in the first dungeon you can just stumble into sub bosses that will one shot your guys with ease.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:09
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Genpei Turtle posted:SJ is pretty divisive. It's kind of a love-it-or-hate-it type of thing. No, I really like that style of game-- I just think that rather than using those tricks and whatnot well, SJ uses them in a greatest-hits style that makes for tedious challenge rather than entertaining challenge. It knows what those traps are, but it doesn't know how to use them well. I don't hate the game, but I find it a very frustrating one because it's like, a better map designer away from having something really cool.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:12
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The problem with SJ's battle system is that while trying to incorporate Alignment more into the gameplay, it failed to have the strategy of both Press-turn and the front/backrow system of SMT and Devil Summoner. At least that let you put magic demons in the back and physical demons in the front. The Co-op system is basically the negatives of both systems, requiring you to make use of aligned demons like SMT1/2, and allowing you to hit weaknesses like Press-turn, but with none of the benefits or strategies of either. Also, SJ isn't really hard.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:13
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It isn't hard, but way too many of the bosses are luck-based.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:18
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TurnipFritter posted:It isn't hard, but way too many of the bosses are luck-based. Yeah, I kind of felt most of the bosses were of the "hope he doesn't use his giant gently caress-you move" persuasion. Past that, it's not really a hard game encounter-wise, just the dungeon designers were giant assholes in some areas. Neo Rasa posted:My problem with Strange Journey is that is that they decided not to use the press turn system but I feel like the game was originally balanced to have it in place. Instead it does a thing where if you exploit a weakness demons near you/that you understand more (because you have them in your party or killed them a lot in battle) have a high bonus attack on whatever you exploited the weakness of. I feel like they didn't effectively balance everything to take this into account. It's demons of the same alignment as the originating party member that get the free hit in. I had no issue with that part.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:48
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neongrey posted:No, I really like that style of game-- I just think that rather than using those tricks and whatnot well, SJ uses them in a greatest-hits style that makes for tedious challenge rather than entertaining challenge. It knows what those traps are, but it doesn't know how to use them well. I don't hate the game, but I find it a very frustrating one because it's like, a better map designer away from having something really cool. I wouldn't call SJ's dungeon design perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and it is tedious in the way it uses certain gimmicks in some parts, but I can overlook that in favor of what it got right. The way the game gradually handed you out new abilities to explore different sections of the dungeon that you couldn't get to before was handled really well. Way too many dungeon crawlers are too rigidly linear in that sense, without giving you any "off-limits" areas for you to wonder how to get into, only to discover later on. Some of the Might & Magic games and Wizardry 6/7 are pretty much the only ones that got that right--I kind of liked that SJ does that too, albeit with less finesse than those games. (Because let's face it, with a small handful of exceptions, JRPG dungeon crawlers rarely get dungeon design right in general)
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Sep 11, 2013 03:51
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Moving away from SJ, is there anything of note I'd miss if I decide to skip NG+ on the first Raidou game before moving onto the second? e: VVV Good to know! Strange Quark fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 05:05
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Just some medals that you can sell based on completing bonus things in the first game but money will stop being an issue fairly soon. Also, some demons will automatically join you if it's your first time seeing them in the second game. Also, Raidou 2 is basically my favorite SMT game so if you've got any questions, I'll be glad to help you out. A Bystander fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 05:07
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Strange Quark posted:Moving away from SJ, is there anything of note I'd miss if I decide to skip NG+ on the first Raidou game before moving onto the second? An amazing optional boss, but you'll fight him in Raidou 2 anyway.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:27
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alcharagia posted:Get rid of the demon, buy it back, and level it up again. I liked Strange Journey, as long as you realize what your personal threshold of bullshit dungeon design is and then use a map for the rest of the game because it only ramps up from there.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:53
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I've kind of lost track of what was happening with the Atlus auction. Did they ever announce who was buying them? And Strange Journey was fine, the only level that I really disliked was the stupid teleporter maze in... Zone E, I think. That was bullshit.
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Sep 11, 2013 10:41
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In Strange Journey, do demons learn move moves as they level up? I don't think I've seen anyone I have learn anything new yet.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:12
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:In Strange Journey, do demons learn move moves as they level up? I don't think I've seen anyone I have learn anything new yet. No. As I remember, you get their sources and then fuse new demons with the sources. Otherwise they're just stuck with the basic moveset.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:49
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