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Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

SachielDVangel posted:

The other thing I've noticed with this litter is with more adult dog exposure, they are less mouthy without much human intervention or instruction. We put these puppies out with the adults earlier at about 8 weeks, and with all of the adults including the grumpy ones, and they are far less likely to put mouths on you and hesitant to bite play even when played with. When puppies go home at 8 weeks, they have almost none of the structured bite inhibition they'd get from adult dogs, so it's all up to you to teach it. Also, the adult interaction has taught them incredible strange-dog manners, always approaching calmly, cautiously and sensibly. I see ridiculous numbers of puppies in class who facehugger-launch themselves on other dogs and figure that puppy was probably raised in solitary confinement from the other adults they own. Firm but fair is the best approach imo.

This is basically why I have pretty much just always tossed puppies to my older dogs and let them do their thing. Have very rarely had issues with excessive mouthing as a result.

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Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug

Fraction posted:

bite puppies all day every day????

gently caress that, if they taste me the next thing they taste is my Glock.

Really I have the dog park to thank for Tater's inhibition. Two hours of wrasslin' a day will do that to a pup. Now I actively encourage him to chew on my hands cuz it's like a little massage.

Riiseli
Apr 10, 2011
I'm not a BYB because I live in an apartment.

SachielDVangel posted:

The other thing I've noticed with this litter is with more adult dog exposure, they are less mouthy without much human intervention or instruction. We put these puppies out with the adults earlier at about 8 weeks, and with all of the adults including the grumpy ones, and they are far less likely to put mouths on you and hesitant to bite play even when played with. When puppies go home at 8 weeks, they have almost none of the structured bite inhibition they'd get from adult dogs, so it's all up to you to teach it. Also, the adult interaction has taught them incredible strange-dog manners, always approaching calmly, cautiously and sensibly. I see ridiculous numbers of puppies in class who facehugger-launch themselves on other dogs and figure that puppy was probably raised in solitary confinement from the other adults they own. Firm but fair is the best approach imo.
I've only had two other adults tops, when I've had a litter. Within my pack they get to interact at the age of (2,5)3-4 weeks and I think it was around 4 weeks, when I had a breeding placement give birth at my home. Of course it helps that I've almost exclusively had experienced moms at home, so they've known how to handle such young puppies. Naru especially is excellent with puppies and actually nursed Healy's puppies, when she had her false pregnancy at the same time with Healy's first litter. I've no hesitation about letting her interact with puppies of any age, since she was willing to adopt (absolutely no questions asked) a litter of orphaned newborns. But definitely adult dogs help. Plenty. I don't think I did anything about Naru's bite inhibition, when she was a puppy. She was allowed to bite me, but redirected to toys very quickly and exhausted any additional energy by biting my older dogs. Her bite inhibition is at an astounding level given her character. (She's very quick to react and has a tendency to do so aggressively.)

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Is this the thread for asking for advice on researching breeders? My partner and I have realised we don't actually want a dog, we want a pug. We figure we'll carbon-offset it with a rescue dog in the future, but pugs just don't show up much at shelters in England. We've been on the pug society waiting list for years as well.

We don't want to show, we just want a healthy pug from a breeder who has their poo poo together. It's a minefield out there. We're considering going to Germany to visit the breeder who's trying to bring back the 18th century long muzzle pug.

We're not going to jump into this but any advice on finding breeders in the UK would be massively appreciated.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

my lovely cat posted:

Is this the thread for asking for advice on researching breeders? My partner and I have realised we don't actually want a dog, we want a pug. We figure we'll carbon-offset it with a rescue dog in the future, but pugs just don't show up much at shelters in England. We've been on the pug society waiting list for years as well.

We don't want to show, we just want a healthy pug from a breeder who has their poo poo together. It's a minefield out there. We're considering going to Germany to visit the breeder who's trying to bring back the 18th century long muzzle pug.

We're not going to jump into this but any advice on finding breeders in the UK would be massively appreciated.

What's that joke no one likes about winning first place at the Special Olympics...? Being a responsible breeder of pugs is kind of like that.

I did a quick look around for the German program you mentioned. Is it this one? http://www.mprv.de/ From what I'm seeing on that page and others that link to it elsewhere on the internet, the program relies heavily on line breeding. It may result in dogs with less extreme structure, but line breeding is, in my humble opinion, a bad idea. The short-sightedness of breeders who practice it bothers me, as they don't seem to be taking into account the long term ramifications of decreasing genetic diversity in a breed which they claim to love. Then I remember that we're talking about pugs. And... yeah. http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.ca/2013/09/dogs-elevator-pitch.html

Also, pugs have more issues than just their muzzles & eyes. I'm not sure whether the program is looking into their other issues, or just focusing on the more cosmetic ones.

Unfortunately I don't have much advice as far as finding a decent breeder goes. If I were looking for a pug I would talk to people I know who are active with their pugs (I know of 2 agility-running pugs who are doing really well, but one needed surgery to remove folds of flesh from its throat so it could breathe unimpeded). I'd chat with those breeders, see if their goals coalesced with mine. If the breeder wasn't creating what I was looking for but was otherwise on the level I might ask them to recommend other breeders. I think the hardest part for people just getting into the ~dog world~ is making contact with people who own the type of dogs you're looking for.

When I eventually get a pug, I would keep it as thin as was reasonable. Most pugs are grossly overweight, and people assume that that's normal.

Malalol
Apr 4, 2007

I spent $1,000 on my computer but I'm too "poor" to take my dog or any of my animals to the vet for vet care. My neglect caused 1 of my birds to die prematurely! My dog pisses everywhere! I don't care! I'm a piece of shit! Don't believe me? Check my post history in Pet Island!
Its been a week with the new dog! Annnnnnnnnnnd I had her first accident in the house. It was totally my fault. I came home around 1pm, walked her..then went out and did stuff. Came back in the afternoon a few hours later and just..fell asleep, forgot to take her out- didnt really think Id be knocked out that long either. Woke up at 11+pm :X and figured I could feed her before taking her outside because she didn't eat yet. That, plus me having just gotten up- I went to the bathroom and she really just couldnt hold it in anymore. I came out and there was a miniblot of poop (shes been doing dog diarrhea the whole week and its getting very runny) but nothing else, went looking for her. She was in her crate in my room standing in pee and liquipoop :gonk: then tracked it all over the floor when she saw me. Sigh. I know it was completely my fault but Im wondering what the mentality is of starting a poop in the kitchen, then running back to her crate to finish it. Unless she heard a sound and got spooked.


I''m going to go look for canned pumpkin though because her runny poop is getting bad. Total food switch + introduction of wet food + cramming random treats for training + using a lot of chews to keep her busy + whatever stress.

Still working on playing with toys, she likes to fetch things I throw in the house (loses interest semiquickly) but not so much outside. She doesnt seem too distracted??? like she isn't running amok sniffing things but Ill throw a toy and she'll just stare and go 'naw' and stand there. Been clicking and praising for tugging with she barely does. I know when dogs get into it they like grabbing a thing and shaking and tugging but with her, she'll manage a pull before letting go when I tug back. Working on it! Any other forms of play I should try? I have food based toys that she has to nose around. Picked up a kong today and stuffed it with jerky bars that she likes but she isn't really going for it. Bought a tennis ball today too and I accidentally hit her in the eye while playing fetch so she doesn't like the ball anymore :v:

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

a life less posted:

What's that joke no one likes about winning first place at the Special Olympics...? Being a responsible breeder of pugs is kind of like that.

I did a quick look around for the German program you mentioned. Is it this one? http://www.mprv.de/ From what I'm seeing on that page and others that link to it elsewhere on the internet, the program relies heavily on line breeding. It may result in dogs with less extreme structure, but line breeding is, in my humble opinion, a bad idea. The short-sightedness of breeders who practice it bothers me, as they don't seem to be taking into account the long term ramifications of decreasing genetic diversity in a breed which they claim to love. Then I remember that we're talking about pugs. And... yeah. http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.ca/2013/09/dogs-elevator-pitch.html

Also, pugs have more issues than just their muzzles & eyes. I'm not sure whether the program is looking into their other issues, or just focusing on the more cosmetic ones.

Unfortunately I don't have much advice as far as finding a decent breeder goes. If I were looking for a pug I would talk to people I know who are active with their pugs (I know of 2 agility-running pugs who are doing really well, but one needed surgery to remove folds of flesh from its throat so it could breathe unimpeded). I'd chat with those breeders, see if their goals coalesced with mine. If the breeder wasn't creating what I was looking for but was otherwise on the level I might ask them to recommend other breeders. I think the hardest part for people just getting into the ~dog world~ is making contact with people who own the type of dogs you're looking for.

When I eventually get a pug, I would keep it as thin as was reasonable. Most pugs are grossly overweight, and people assume that that's normal.

Thanks for the advice. The German program is looking at patellar and vertebrae problems as well. I'll have to learn more. I will say, one thing German pug breeders have over English ones is the German ones know how to use English and design a website that doesn't make me want to fork myself in the eye. I'll try and talk to more owners.

SachielDVangel
Jun 4, 2003

Malalol posted:

I''m going to go look for canned pumpkin though because her runny poop is getting bad. Total food switch + introduction of wet food + cramming random treats for training + using a lot of chews to keep her busy + whatever stress.

How big is she? You can try an .5 to 1.0 Imodium depending on size. I'd add in Fortiflora: http://www.amazon.com/Purina-Veterinary-Diets-Fortiflora-Sachets/dp/B001650NNW or Culterelle: http://www.amazon.com/Culturelle-Di...ords=culturelle to help with digestion during a food switch.

(edit) 1mg/20# for imodium, so at 30#, you can do 1/2-2/3 of a tablet (1 tablet is 2mg)

pumpkin is good. We usually go for boiled chicken and rice with a little garlic powder for upset stomachs lasting more than a day. Easily digestible and you can mix that in with the kibble you're swapping to.

SachielDVangel fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 6, 2013

Malalol
Apr 4, 2007

I spent $1,000 on my computer but I'm too "poor" to take my dog or any of my animals to the vet for vet care. My neglect caused 1 of my birds to die prematurely! My dog pisses everywhere! I don't care! I'm a piece of shit! Don't believe me? Check my post history in Pet Island!
she is 24lb last time I weighed her...
immodium better or kaopectate?
culterelle: can I just use yogurt? dog yogurt? benebac?

SachielDVangel
Jun 4, 2003

Malalol posted:

she is 24lb last time I weighed her...
immodium better or kaopectate?
culterelle: can I just use yogurt? dog yogurt? benebac?

1/2 a tab of imodium is what I usually use, even on my 45# bitches.
Use whatever probiotic you feel comfortable with for a kick-start; I just listed the two I've used and have been happy with. The Purina packets make kibble smell like something I would want to eat though: yummy.

adventure in the sandbox
Nov 24, 2005



Things change


Immodium is a godsend. Protip: don't bother with liquid, they come in pill form! Delta learned it the hard way. I was an expert at tossing it right down her gullet, and then we found pills..

blue urban dream
Aug 8, 2011
The last couple days, my ten week old CKCS pup, Ember, has started bullying our almost eleven year old pom x chi, Pepper. Pepper has been scared of the puppy from the beginning, while Ember has wanted to play with her, but Ember won't leave her alone and the last two days had started nipping her as well. Pepper growls and snarls and snaps, but it has no effect. I'd usually just let Pepper give her a good correction bite, but she has no teeth due to dental issues earlier in her life, and Ember is extremely stubborn and won't listen to Pepper's growling or snapping, and all we can do is redirect with a toy and hope that works.

Ember also bites us a hell of a lot, more than any of our other puppies in the past. We've tried: yelping and turning away, saying nothing and turning away, saying no firmly and turning away, smacking a rolled up newspaper on the floor to make a noise, putting her in her playpen alone, redirecting into toys (worked briefly, but today she just played for a minute then immediately tried to bite again). She just immediately bites us again at the next opportunity unless she's exhausted. She is the least sensitive cavalier I've ever seen and doesn't give a poo poo what we say. She does dislike being stuck somewhere she can't see people or do things though so I might need to just start sticking her in the bathroom for 15-30secs when she bites us or Pepper.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

blue urban dream posted:

The last couple days, my ten week old CKCS pup, Ember, has started bullying our almost eleven year old pom x chi, Pepper. Pepper has been scared of the puppy from the beginning, while Ember has wanted to play with her, but Ember won't leave her alone and the last two days had started nipping her as well. Pepper growls and snarls and snaps, but it has no effect. I'd usually just let Pepper give her a good correction bite, but she has no teeth due to dental issues earlier in her life, and Ember is extremely stubborn and won't listen to Pepper's growling or snapping, and all we can do is redirect with a toy and hope that works.

Ember also bites us a hell of a lot, more than any of our other puppies in the past. We've tried: yelping and turning away, saying nothing and turning away, saying no firmly and turning away, smacking a rolled up newspaper on the floor to make a noise, putting her in her playpen alone, redirecting into toys (worked briefly, but today she just played for a minute then immediately tried to bite again). She just immediately bites us again at the next opportunity unless she's exhausted. She is the least sensitive cavalier I've ever seen and doesn't give a poo poo what we say. She does dislike being stuck somewhere she can't see people or do things though so I might need to just start sticking her in the bathroom for 15-30secs when she bites us or Pepper.

Teach her how she should be interacting with hands. Get a stick of butter and freeze it, then rub it on your hands and arms before you interact. This will encourage licking and make sure you're praising heavily during this experience. If you do only this, you're still likely to get a lot of mouthing and biting because she isn't getting enough exercise, so do whatever you can to tire her out first. Flirt pole would be a good fit here if you have one.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Expecting much bite inhibition from a 10 week old puppy is expecting a lot. I say this as the owner of a (very) mouthy herder, so my perspective may be a bit skewed but I had so many scratches on my arms from my puppy that it looked like I'd self-harmed. So, relax. It cound be worse.

I would set up an x-pen or two (or a few tether stations) in the rooms you frequent. If the pup gets too rowdy, unemotionally place the pup in the pen or on the tether then walk away. This provides a quick and clear consequence for the puppy and it also provides you and your older dog some reprieve.

Don't expect to see results too quickly. You're still dealing with a young dog with piss poor self control skills. Be consistent. Plan to do this for the next 1-5+ months, depending on how manic your pup is.

New Leaf
Jul 24, 2013

Dragon Balls? Are they tasty?
Our 7 month old puppy took a huge step back today. He's been practically potty trained for weeks, and tonight, he has peed in the house THREE loving times! It's like urine is leaking out of him and he's just leaving these trails wherever he goes. We re-adopted the timer method tonight, but he's still leaking all over the place. What gives? I know he doesn't feel sick because he's running and playing with the other dog just like a normal night, he's just peeing everywhere in the process.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes
My first reaction is to take him to the vet but the phrase "7 month old puppy ... practically potty trained for weeks" makes it sounds like maybe he's not really all that house trained. I'd say take him to the vet to rule out a UTI or kidney problem if he really was house trained. If he's clear, go back to step 1 of potty training and do a better job this time. This post has some good info, http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3364451&pagenumber=112&perpage=40#post419286355

New Leaf
Jul 24, 2013

Dragon Balls? Are they tasty?

Ikantski posted:

My first reaction is to take him to the vet but the phrase "7 month old puppy ... practically potty trained for weeks" makes it sounds like maybe he's not really all that house trained. I'd say take him to the vet to rule out a UTI or kidney problem if he really was house trained. If he's clear, go back to step 1 of potty training and do a better job this time. This post has some good info, http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3364451&pagenumber=112&perpage=40#post419286355

Thanks for that, I'll read up!

And really, he's been flawless for weeks. I didn't mean to imply he was still having regular accidents or anything. I wonder if an incident last week set him back a bit- I actually ended up in the emergency room for several hours on Friday (long story) and we got home WAY later than usual, so he went in his crate and the poor little guy sat there soaking in it for a few hours. My wife was trying to find someone who could let him out, but the only people who have keys to our place were indisposed and she didn't want to leave me. I hope we didn't scar the poor little guy for life. :ohdear:

It's weird- it's almost like he's getting too excited while playing and just starts leaking. I don't know any other way to describe it. He was sitting by my chair a couple hours ago, so I was petting him and playing with him a little and he put his paws up on my knee and it just started trickling out. I got up quickly and ran him to the door, but his running with me was more like "Oh, we're playing chase!" running more than "Oh crap, I gotta pee" running, and he left a nice trail on the carpet all the way to the door.. and by the time I got him out, he was done and looking at me like he was confused why we were outside. I kept him out there for about 10 more minutes and nothing else happened.

A little while ago, my wife took him out for his last "timer" pee of the night and he did nothing, so I waited 10 minutes and took him out again and he peed almost immediately. Weird.

New Leaf fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Sep 11, 2013

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug
Tater will pull this bullshit where all of a sudden he'll decide to piss/crap on one particular spot on my bedroom carpet. Always when I'm home I think, never come home to a wet spot. He'll do it once or twice, tI hit it with Nature's Miracle and clean the carpet, then he's perfect again or four or five months. Annoying.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

New Leaf posted:

Thanks for that, I'll read up!

And really, he's been flawless for weeks. I didn't mean to imply he was still having regular accidents or anything. I wonder if an incident last week set him back a bit- I actually ended up in the emergency room for several hours on Friday (long story) and we got home WAY later than usual, so he went in his crate and the poor little guy sat there soaking in it for a few hours. My wife was trying to find someone who could let him out, but the only people who have keys to our place were indisposed and she didn't want to leave me. I hope we didn't scar the poor little guy for life. :ohdear:

It's weird- it's almost like he's getting too excited while playing and just starts leaking.

A little while ago, my wife took him out for his last "timer" pee of the night and he did nothing, so I waited 10 minutes and took him out again and he peed almost immediately. Weird.

The part that doesn't add up is that he's 7 months and he hasn't had any accidents in 2 weeks so he's been peeing wherever he wants for ~6.5 months before that? Two weeks without an accident isn't really long enough to consider him house broken.

When my dog was a puppy, he would leak a bit too when he was excited but it only happened on a full bladder. It was pretty easy to manage by taking him outside before we did anything exciting inside. Is your wife giving the same reinforcement as you are for peeing outside? If you're doing anything less than throwing a full blown party and stuffing his face with his favorite treats every single time he pees outside, I'd step it up.

I'd also make sure his crate bedding that he peed in is really clean or just get him a new one.

New Leaf
Jul 24, 2013

Dragon Balls? Are they tasty?

Ikantski posted:

The part that doesn't add up is that he's 7 months and he hasn't had any accidents in 2 weeks so he's been peeing wherever he wants for ~6.5 months before that? Two weeks without an accident isn't really long enough to consider him house broken.

When my dog was a puppy, he would leak a bit too when he was excited but it only happened on a full bladder. It was pretty easy to manage by taking him outside before we did anything exciting inside. Is your wife giving the same reinforcement as you are for peeing outside? If you're doing anything less than throwing a full blown party and stuffing his face with his favorite treats every single time he pees outside, I'd step it up.

I'd also make sure his crate bedding that he peed in is really clean or just get him a new one.

The bedding is being triple-washed. :)

We try to maintain the same level of enthusiasm when we take him out. And the months prior to today was an uphill battle, but he caught on eventually and we thought it would be smooth sailing. His indoor accidents have been very few and far between for quite a while now, but I couldn't really tell you how long. A month or more, at least. I used a lot of the tips from the housebreaking section on page 1. Normally, it's us rather than him- I'll be mowing the yard some evening and my wife will doze off on the couch and he can't wake her and ends up going on the floor (the woman could sleep through the apocalypse, so the timer doesn't always wake her), OR he'll provoke the big dog just a little too much and she'll wheel on him and he collapses to the ground on his back in a wide-eyed submission position and starts peeing himself. This is unfortunately the case more often than not. Sometimes, he just doesn't get her "playtime is over, quit chewing on my leg" messages. Other than that, we had actually stopped using the timer for several weeks because we didn't think it was necessary anymore, but we're starting back up today.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Hi all, meet Penny.



Two months old, black lab "mix". The SPCA couldn't be more specific because they don't know. They actually aren't sure if she's a mix at all, but they can't really verify.

She's on her second day home, and quite frankly it's going swimmingly. She's a little mouthy but what puppy isn't at 2 months.

The SPCA had her fixed and I gather that there's supposed to be no bathing for 7-10 days until the incision heals, but she's been rolling around in the grass and she's already been through the flower bed a few times and I'm just not sure that she's going to last 7-10 days without needing some kind of rinse-off. Is there any safe way to keep the incision clean while washing her? I've had four dogs and they've all been fixed and I'll be damned if I can remember what we did about this each time.

Sorry for the horrible iPhone photo but she's literally impossible to photograph. She's either black on black or she's a blur. There's nothing in between :(

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

You could use a waterless shampoo if you want. I picked up a spray bottle of it from Pet Valu and it's decent for tidying up the dogs a bit between baths.

Rocket Wizard
Jun 9, 2007
The thing that went "parp" went "parp".
We adopted a 3-4 year old Shiba Inu a few weeks ago. She's definitely entirely house broken and really good about it, but for some reason she refuses to use the bathroom in our back yard. We have to take her for a walk everyday so she'll pee/poop. We missed one day last week and hoped that maybe she'd give up being stubborn and poop in the yard but she just held it for a whole day (with several attempts to get her to go in the yard) and took 3 huge dumps during her next walk. Yesterday I wasn't home and my husband forgot to take her for a walk and she woke us up at 2 am (we hadn't been crating her because she's been so good at night and the foster said it wasn't necessary). My husband took her out to the yard and kept her there for like ten minutes but she still refused to poop. When we woke up she had pooped and peed on the carpet in the basement :/.

We've tried bringing her poo home and putting it in the yard and use the housebreaking dog pee spray but she just ignored her poo and tries to dig where we put the spray. I've tried having her on leash in the yard and walking her around but she just won't even start sniffing around. My next idea is to have our friend bring his dog over to our place and maybe if he goes in the yard she will, too. But I'm open to any other ideas you may have. Here's a picture in exchange for advice :).

sexy tiger boobs
Aug 23, 2002

Up shit creek with a turd for a paddle.

Hey guys, thanks for the advice about biting. It hasn't really helped yet but were sticking with it. The biting is sort of related to this post.

I'm so pissed off right now, at myself for ignoring the warning signs and at this bitch "trainer" who was at the free puppy socialization thing we went to today.

So anyways we took Ulysses to the free puppy socialization time at PetCo for the first and last time today. Uly got a bit worked up while playing with the other dogs and things moved a bit past play but there was nothing crazy. The trainer separates the dogs and starts doing that Caesar Milan corrective poo poo, pushing our 11 week old puppy and hitting him lightly on the face in an apparent attempt to calm him down... Well she pushes him a couple times and then he comes back and bites her on the thumb, the bitch then loving smacks him and he flies back and yelps.

I yell at her and then she starts clutching her thumb acting like it was Uly's fault and asking "What about my bite?" Which I'm pretty sure wasn't bleeding and she was just trying to save face in front of the other customers. I got the hitting incident on video and he's wagging his tail the whole time up until she wallops him, so I'm pretty sure it was just a play bite and he caught her in a sensitive area or something.

I'm kinda at a loss here, I can't believe a woman that calls herself a dog trainer would treat a puppy like that and also wouldn't be used to getting nipped occasionally in puppy classes. I'll probably have some more specific questions about mitigating the damage she might have done in a while but for now I just wanted to get some other people's thoughts on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCh5hJJQaH8

And a palate cleansing puppy belly enjoying his new sod.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



If a person can't handle a nippy baby puppy without smacking it in the face they shouldn't be working with puppies. I would be livid if that was my dog. Contact that store's manager and corporate, explain what happened, and send them the video.

sexy tiger boobs
Aug 23, 2002

Up shit creek with a turd for a paddle.

There's no chance that she could claim he was being aggressive and get him in trouble with animal control or anything is there? I worry about stuff like that but I figure there's gotta be some leeway for a puppy and for something that happened during "training". Does the situation change if he broke her skin? Not sure if he did or not, we got out of there pretty quick because it quickly became a hostile environment. Seemed like most of the patrons didn't think there was anything wrong with what happened. When I was talking to the trainer afterwards (admittedly angrily) some woman said "Well then take your dog and go." like I was wasting the trainer's valuable time.

Also is there anything we should be doing to help him get over it? He seemed to forget about it really quick once we got him outta there and went back to his normal happy self, but I'm sure there will be some sort of lasting impact.

Spengelbeiser
Oct 8, 2009

Senordingdong posted:

Hey guys, thanks for the advice about biting. It hasn't really helped yet but were sticking with it. The biting is sort of related to this post.

I'm so pissed off right now, at myself for ignoring the warning signs and at this bitch "trainer" who was at the free puppy socialization thing we went to today.

So anyways we took Ulysses to the free puppy socialization time at PetCo for the first and last time today. Uly got a bit worked up while playing with the other dogs and things moved a bit past play but there was nothing crazy. The trainer separates the dogs and starts doing that Caesar Milan corrective poo poo, pushing our 11 week old puppy and hitting him lightly on the face in an apparent attempt to calm him down... Well she pushes him a couple times and then he comes back and bites her on the thumb, the bitch then loving smacks him and he flies back and yelps.

I yell at her and then she starts clutching her thumb acting like it was Uly's fault and asking "What about my bite?" Which I'm pretty sure wasn't bleeding and she was just trying to save face in front of the other customers. I got the hitting incident on video and he's wagging his tail the whole time up until she wallops him, so I'm pretty sure it was just a play bite and he caught her in a sensitive area or something.

I'm kinda at a loss here, I can't believe a woman that calls herself a dog trainer would treat a puppy like that and also wouldn't be used to getting nipped occasionally in puppy classes. I'll probably have some more specific questions about mitigating the damage she might have done in a while but for now I just wanted to get some other people's thoughts on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCh5hJJQaH8

And a palate cleansing puppy belly enjoying his new sod.



That's loving awful, don't take your dog back there anymore. I wouldn't say from looking at that things were even "a bit past play," all dogs involved look happy and tails were up. Puppies pin other puppies and play bite and nip all the time. That's how puppies play. Why would that lady even try to get between two puppies who are playing perfectly well with each other? I mean unless something happened before you started filming that was a LOT more aggressive than what is shown, that was totally fine. I've seen dogs do a lot crazier, more dangerous looking stuff in totally legitimate play than that.

You can pick out the Cesar Milan fuckwits pretty quickly with stuff like this. Definitely report this lady if you can, "trainers" like this result in owners who run around dog parks neckpinching anything that even looks at them sideways to assert their calm dominance.

e: ^^^^^^^^^^^ Don't worry about "lasting impact," dogs are resilient. You can accidentally step on their toes or trip on them or whatever and life goes on, it doesn't look like the incident was any worse than that. Just keep your puppy away from people like that in the future.

Spengelbeiser fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Sep 16, 2013

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



The puppy is 11 weeks old. He probably has those terrible puppy needle teeth that hurt like poo poo when they bite you and draw blood super easily. Getting bit by a mouthy little puppy all the time makes you want to smack it, but you don't because its a baby. Especially if you are a professional and its not your puppy!

This is not the puppy's fault. If the manager or corporate or whatever makes a fuss and claims the puppy was viciously mauling the trainer let them know that you'll be happy to share the video with the media and let the public decide.

Don't assume your pup is completely traumatized yet. A lot of dogs bounce right back after scary things. If he starts being afraid of hands you can work on things like nose-palm touches to get him to like hands near his face again. Just keep up positive socialization and maybe find a good puppy playgroup that doesn't have lovely people running it.

sexy tiger boobs
Aug 23, 2002

Up shit creek with a turd for a paddle.

Yeah we're definitely finding another playgroup and I'll be reporting her. I'm glad the trainer was a woman at least, he's much less shy with women to start with so I'm glad it wasn't a man who smacked him which would set back socialization a bit I'm sure.

And yeah he definitely has awful sharp little teeth right now, but the only time he draws small amounts of blood is when either him or his victim pull after biting so that the skin tears. Sorry for the crappy quality of the video, I kinda forgot I was filming when she started with that Caesar poo poo.

Kakarot
Jul 20, 2013

by zen death robot
Buglord
No way thats right, we got our staffy from a breeder, shes extremely gentle and all her dogs are obedient.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation
I have been brought to tears by puppy needle teeth a million times and have never smacked the poo poo out of a puppy for it- and that's in private, not in a class full of people. I would get that bitch fired. Not even kidding. She has absolutely no place working with other people's animals if this is how she handles a puppy mouthing her. Either way you do not hit someone elses dog, ever, period, done. gently caress that.

Dogdoo 8
Sep 22, 2011
Even if you didn't care about the cruelty part, that kind of behavior is practically a gold engraved invitation for a dog bite.

Psychobabble!
Jun 22, 2010

Observing this filth unsettles me

To just add to everyone else's words, as someone who works at a busy doggy daycare, that just looked like regular puppy play to me. You don't see the normal signs of escalation that you would if it was going to be a fight(increased noise/pitch especially). That trainer is poo poo. Sorry you had such a bad experience :(

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Rocket Wizard posted:

We adopted a 3-4 year old Shiba Inu a few weeks ago. She's definitely entirely house broken and really good about it, but for some reason she refuses to use the bathroom in our back yard. We have to take her for a walk everyday so she'll pee/poop. We missed one day last week and hoped that maybe she'd give up being stubborn and poop in the yard but she just held it for a whole day (with several attempts to get her to go in the yard) and took 3 huge dumps during her next walk. Yesterday I wasn't home and my husband forgot to take her for a walk and she woke us up at 2 am (we hadn't been crating her because she's been so good at night and the foster said it wasn't necessary). My husband took her out to the yard and kept her there for like ten minutes but she still refused to poop. When we woke up she had pooped and peed on the carpet in the basement :/.

We've tried bringing her poo home and putting it in the yard and use the housebreaking dog pee spray but she just ignored her poo and tries to dig where we put the spray. I've tried having her on leash in the yard and walking her around but she just won't even start sniffing around. My next idea is to have our friend bring his dog over to our place and maybe if he goes in the yard she will, too. But I'm open to any other ideas you may have. Here's a picture in exchange for advice :).

It sounds like you're doing things mostly right, but I have a few questions. How long have you actually sat out there in the yard with her and waited? What is the material in the backyard? Is it grass? Is she pooping on the grass on the walks or on the sidewalk? Is this a problem with both pee and poop?

My guess is that realistically you're going to have to camp out in the backyard for an extended period of time. Once she starts to get it, things will progress very quickly, but that first time could take up to an hour. I'd like answers to the questions above before I give specific advice though.

Senordingdong posted:

vicious dog attacks

To answer your question about legal dangers for your dog, the answer is it depends. Some counties are very strict about this sort of thing and a skin-breaking bite is justification for a quarantine. Sometimes this is just in the home, sometimes it's in the county shelter. The latter would be very unhealthy for your dog right now. You may want to look into the local laws if you're concerned about this.

In regards to that socialization encounter, that is far, far too many dogs in much too small a space. I would have had the tri-color dragging a leash because he was being just a tiny bit of a bully, and I would have pulled him off and given him a moment to cool down. I do think that reporting her is a good idea, but be careful of the issues above.

sexy tiger boobs
Aug 23, 2002

Up shit creek with a turd for a paddle.

Ugh, that complicates things a bit. We're in California where there apparently is a quarantine requirement after a bite - 10 days at a local shelter unless we can "provide sufficient cause for a home quarantine". It also seems to define "bite" as needing to have broken the skin, wish I would have taken a closer look at the lady's thumb.

On the bright side Ulysses doesn't seem to have been affected much. I wonder if we could report this anonymously and still get results.

Zortzico
Jul 3, 2007

We're Just Running In The 90's
Update on my puppy for those who may be curious: No issues at all since the seizure, and he has done nothing but grow like a weed. He's pretty good at sitting when told and shaking paw as well, but we're still working on 'stay'. However, I suspect that he may be starting to show signs of separation anxiety. He was in the backyard for a solid half hour when I brought him in to go for a full walk. I ran upstairs to grab a sweater (there is a gate blocking the stairs as he still has a hard time with anything more than 4 steps) and heard him whining for me, by the time I got back down he had peed on the floor in front of the stairs. Later I went to use the bathroom which is down 1 step onto a landing that he refuses to go down for some reason, and same as before, he whined and there was more pee on the floor. He's very good about his peeing, and normally goes to the training pad at the back door or front hall to do so if we don't get him out in time. If this is an anxiety issue, what steps can I take to curb it now before it turns into a problem?

Spengelbeiser
Oct 8, 2009

Zortzico posted:

Update on my puppy for those who may be curious: No issues at all since the seizure, and he has done nothing but grow like a weed. He's pretty good at sitting when told and shaking paw as well, but we're still working on 'stay'. However, I suspect that he may be starting to show signs of separation anxiety. He was in the backyard for a solid half hour when I brought him in to go for a full walk. I ran upstairs to grab a sweater (there is a gate blocking the stairs as he still has a hard time with anything more than 4 steps) and heard him whining for me, by the time I got back down he had peed on the floor in front of the stairs. Later I went to use the bathroom which is down 1 step onto a landing that he refuses to go down for some reason, and same as before, he whined and there was more pee on the floor. He's very good about his peeing, and normally goes to the training pad at the back door or front hall to do so if we don't get him out in time. If this is an anxiety issue, what steps can I take to curb it now before it turns into a problem?

The simplest step I can think of, is with a young puppy, always leave them something to distract them when you have to leave, even for a moment. A good treat that takes a little while to get through is ideal. We use kongs with our puppy, but mileage may vary depending on how food-driven they are. With puppies, usually... very. It's worth a try because if it works it's great, especially because you can move on to frozen kongs that will keep them distracted for 15 minutes at a time at least and then assuming they're well-exercised they'll usually just forget you even left and fall asleep. It's really the "at the moment you leave" part that's the worst, if you can get them habituated to get through that with tasty distractions it helps a lot.

Long story short, reward them for you leaving (make it a good thing) and keep them busy all at once. It's good.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Hey guys. OK so Penny has had her first round of shots and her second is due Oct 6th. I'd like to begin socializing her ASAP as she's 8 weeks and change. I read over the OP socializing section, though I'm a little worried that every puppy kindergarten I come across here on the web requires the pup to be up to date on their shots. She's up to date on half her shots I guess? I don't really remember how shots work with pups. I'm going to be calling around to different places tomorrow to see what they say on this, but how do you guys deal with pups that have half their shots? Would you figure this would exclude her from some of these classes?

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Martytoof posted:

Hey guys. OK so Penny has had her first round of shots and her second is due Oct 6th. I'd like to begin socializing her ASAP as she's 8 weeks and change. I read over the OP socializing section, though I'm a little worried that every puppy kindergarten I come across here on the web requires the pup to be up to date on their shots. She's up to date on half her shots I guess? I don't really remember how shots work with pups. I'm going to be calling around to different places tomorrow to see what they say on this, but how do you guys deal with pups that have half their shots? Would you figure this would exclude her from some of these classes?

Ask the organizer of the class, but in the case of our classes, that means that if they should have had their first round of shots, they must bring proof that they had that first round. As the puppies continue to come to class, they must continue to provide proof that they are maintaining the vaccination schedule so as not to be at increased risk of infection.

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Zortzico
Jul 3, 2007

We're Just Running In The 90's

Spengelbeiser posted:

The simplest step I can think of, is with a young puppy, always leave them something to distract them when you have to leave, even for a moment. A good treat that takes a little while to get through is ideal. We use kongs with our puppy, but mileage may vary depending on how food-driven they are. With puppies, usually... very. It's worth a try because if it works it's great, especially because you can move on to frozen kongs that will keep them distracted for 15 minutes at a time at least and then assuming they're well-exercised they'll usually just forget you even left and fall asleep. It's really the "at the moment you leave" part that's the worst, if you can get them habituated to get through that with tasty distractions it helps a lot.

Long story short, reward them for you leaving (make it a good thing) and keep them busy all at once. It's good.

Jeez, that makes sense. I've been rewarding him with treats or big praise when he does good on other things, and I didn't even think to apply the same thing here. Thanks!

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