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Its funny how similar Mass Effect and Dead Space are, in story terms at least, both feature horrors from beyond time and space, ME has the Reapers and DS has the Necromorphs and Brother Moons, both have fairly similar goals, though the Reapers have a purpose in causing genocide, the Necros just want everything dead. Plus Unitology turns into Cerberus in Dead Space 3 and rules the universe, Danik however is nowhere near as cool as TIM. Judge Tesla fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 13:04
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Judge Tesla posted:Its funny how similar Mass Effect and Dead Space are Because both botched their third title in the series? 
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Sep 10, 2013 13:10
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Cobalt Chloride posted:So then... the core conflict is that organics will always destroy themselves? I dunno, our cycle was doing pretty well there before they showed up. The core conflict is entropy; limited and decaying resources inevitably lead to conflict between older and younger generations. The Reapers 'reset' the cycle by harvesting and preserving species, clearing the way for a whole new set of species to emerge, dominate and eventually fall into conflict with one another. Similar (non-synthetic/organic) conflicts include the Council and the krogan, and the humans, batarians and Council.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:23
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Yeah that was definitely the vibe I got when the Catalyst said "without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics. We've created the cycle so that never happens."
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Sep 10, 2013 18:59
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Veotax posted:Really? This thing? The only really cringeworthy bit is the creator's self-insert.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:05
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Zoran posted:The only really cringeworthy bit is the creator's self-insert.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:37
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Fifty Three posted:I'm not going to sit through 18 minutes of fanfiction to see it. What'd they do? IIRC it's just some really low-quality (and oddly out-of-place-sounding) radio transmission of an Alliance vessel radioing in that they're coming in to pick up Shepard or something like that during a scene of Joker in the Normandy.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:47
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So Shepard survives? Her dying was TOO SAD or something?
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Sep 10, 2013 22:01
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Smol posted:So Shepard survives? Her dying was TOO SAD or something? The MEHEM builds on the "best" Destroy ending I think, so yeah.
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Sep 10, 2013 22:12
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2house2fly posted:Yeah that was definitely the vibe I got when the Catalyst said "without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics. We've created the cycle so that never happens." Subtext. It's the natural extension of 'daddy issues' from ME2. quote:The only really cringeworthy bit is the creator's self-insert. The whole thing is cringeworthy, a gutless hollow cop-out of an ending
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Sep 10, 2013 22:30
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Maybe it's just me, but I prefer a gutless cop-out of an ending to a supremely stupid ending.
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Sep 11, 2013 00:37
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I still don't see how the biggest problem with the ending is that Shepard dies..
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Sep 11, 2013 00:47
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Yeah, I have problems with the ending like everyone else but Shepard dying isn't one of them. Hell, I expected it since the first game.
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Sep 11, 2013 00:48
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At least for me, the selling point is not really that Shepard lives, it's that all the Starkid stuff is completely gone. MEHEM sequence of events: 1. Run up to the Citadel beam as usual, including the dumb Normandy pickup scene 2. Confrontation with the Illusive Man 3. Anderson death conversation where he declares he's proud of you 4. Shepard activates the Crucible and is picked up from the Citadel; Reapers are destroyed by Crucible, but the Geth & EDI are not 5. Memorial service for Anderson (rather than Shepard) on the Normandy—Shepard is present and there is no Normandy crash scene 6. Epilogue slides as usual Zoran fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 00:50
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Bholder posted:I still don't see how the biggest problem with the ending is that Shepard dies.. - The very existence of Starkid and everything regarding him. - The fact that they didn't show the effects of your choices on the future of the galaxy and the other characters. If they had made the opposite decision on both those points, I don't think most people would've minded that Shepard died.
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Sep 11, 2013 01:00
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Without the Starchild, they might as well make the ending just spell "The winner is you" since it just doesn't give any conclusion to the whole Reaper storyline. You win, reapers lose, the end. Why are we even doing this? Who the gently caress cares! And we have the extended cut just for these choices, and the game itself usually comments about what will happen in the future anyway...
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Sep 11, 2013 01:07
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Well, the Reapers themselves always said that we would never be able to comprehend their reasoning. I guess they were right.
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Sep 11, 2013 01:16
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Bholder posted:Without the Starchild, they might as well make the ending just spell "The winner is you" since it just doesn't give any conclusion to the whole Reaper storyline. You win, reapers lose, the end.
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Sep 11, 2013 01:22
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Bholder posted:Without the Starchild, they might as well make the ending just spell "The winner is you" since it just doesn't give any conclusion to the whole Reaper storyline. You win, reapers lose, the end. Mass Effect has never been about the Reapers.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:47
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Bholder posted:Without the Starchild, they might as well make the ending just spell "The winner is you" since it just doesn't give any conclusion to the whole Reaper storyline. You win, reapers lose, the end. And the fact that people are willing to accept that solely on the grounds that it gets rid of the Starchild should tell you a lot about how we felt about the quality of the "conclusion" to the Reaper storyline (really how we felt about ME3's depiction of the Reapers in general).
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Sep 11, 2013 04:22
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I do wonder about the thought process of the star child, its to elaborate to be a lazy cop-out, someone put a lot of effort into it and was proud of it to.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:39
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Lots of speculation.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:51
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Bholder posted:I still don't see how the biggest problem with the ending is that Shepard dies.. He doesn't in the Destroy ending but there are people on BSN at least who wanted a more definitive presentation that he/she lives than just the breath scene.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:57
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Weren't there some notes someone revealed that the original intent for the ending was something to the tune of blackholes being caused by overuse of Mass Relays? Oh, and the Reapers wiped out civilizations just as they would've been about to reach a critical mass of necessary Relay use.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:58
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Regalingualius posted:Weren't there some notes someone revealed that the original intent for the ending was something to the tune of blackholes being caused by overuse of Mass Relays? Oh, and the Reapers wiped out civilizations just as they would've been about to reach a critical mass of necessary Relay use. The Dark Energy plot was a possible ending where overuse of the Mass Effect would lead to stars throughout the galaxy going supernova fast because dark energy released by the Mass Effect would cause their mass to decrease. The Reapers harvested civilizations to add their intelligence to their own collective so that they may find a solution to this problem. The ending was either letting the Reapers harvest all of humanity and leave the other races alone so that our essence would help the Reapers solve the problem or destroy the Reapers and work with the surviving races to solve the dark energy problem before the galaxy implodes in on itself or something.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:04
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That ending was pretty dumb too, to be honest, though it had the advantage of being written by someone who had thought about it in advance. What's wrong with a good old machine cult, is what I'd like to know. They melt people into some kind of weird still-alive sludge and use the sludge to build a Reaper, and they do it because they think being a Reaper is awesome. Boom, Reapers explained.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:27
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The "true" ending of the game is actually found in Leviathan, when Shepard spots the old piece of Sovereign and says,"Hey how's that whole dominating the galaxy thing working out for you?  "Yes I know that the guy having a piece of Sovereign in his lab was insanely stupid, but it was worth it for the smugness from Shepard 
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Sep 11, 2013 06:34
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Zoran posted:Mass Effect has never been about the Reapers. Yes it was. In Mass Effect 1.
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Sep 11, 2013 10:00
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Jerusalem posted:Yes I know that the guy having a piece of Sovereign in his lab was insanely stupid Alteisen posted:I do wonder about the thought process of the star child, its to elaborate to be a lazy cop-out, someone put a lot of effort into it and was proud of it to. Also I wonder if anyone at Bioware is really proud of it. Bioware's PR seems very much unwilling to admit to having made mistakes. It wasn't until the marketing campaign for DA3 started that Bioware started to hint at that they know they screwed up with DA2.
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Sep 11, 2013 10:21
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Alteisen posted:I do wonder about the thought process of the star child, its to elaborate to be a lazy cop-out, someone put a lot of effort into it and was proud of it to. Classic first draft stuff really.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:01
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sassassin posted:Yes it was. In Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 was about a human taking down a Spectre, the Reapers could've been replaced with any other force and the effect would've been essentially the same. The crises were not, until the final levels, about Reapers at all, but Geth and Thorians and some more Geth. The Reapers were the looming threat of apocalypse behind him, but the game was entirely focused on Shepard vs Saren (telling that the final fight even has you beating Saren to deactivate Sovereign). If anything, ME3 was the game that was most about the Reapers (a faceless 'they' are your main enemies when not fighting Cerberus), and I'm pretty sure it kind of proved that Reapers make poo poo main antagonists. Ominous threats and backstory dumping does not make for compelling characters. e: As far as I remember, the Dark Energy plot line was dumped super early on in development of 3, if not already done so by 2. I don't get the attachment some had to it, seeing as how it only comes up once in the games preceding it.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:51
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What are you talking about, clearly ME3 was man against man, what with star villain Kai Leng constantly foiling Shepard's attempts!  Also I'm one of those awful people who likes MEHEM because it makes my replays bearable. The official ending is such a loving downer no matter what.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:55
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Probably because just about anything would've been better than what we originally got. Yes, even a Shepard-on-Reaper porno would've been a better ending to the series than Starchild was. 
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Sep 11, 2013 15:58
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fancy stats posted:If anything, ME3 was the game that was most about the Reapers (a faceless 'they' are your main enemies when not fighting Cerberus), and I'm pretty sure it kind of proved that Reapers make poo poo main antagonists. Ominous threats and backstory dumping does not make for compelling characters. Ehh, I don't think this is a necessity. The way ME3 handled the Reapers made them lovely antagonists, although mostly with regards to anything relating to the Catalyst and to the parts were they didn't end up as proper antagonists at all, i.e. (as you mentioned) Cerberus taking the role of the main antagonist instead of the Reapers for the better part of the game, and, more importantly (and that's really one of the major problems about ME3), the whole thing about making them into mindless tools rather than the characters with individual agency they have been presented as before. Sovereign and Harbinger, where they showed up, were pretty drat cool I think, as were the scenes on the moon of Palaven or the scenes on Rannoch. The Reapers didn't necessarily have to end up as lovely antagonists in ME3, it's just that Bioware botched the big picture.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:01
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fancy stats posted:Mass Effect 1 was about a human taking down a Spectre, the Reapers could've been replaced with any other force and the effect would've been essentially the same. The crises were not, until the final levels, about Reapers at all, but Geth and Thorians and some more Geth. The Reapers were the looming threat of apocalypse behind him, but the game was entirely focused on Shepard vs Saren (telling that the final fight even has you beating Saren to deactivate Sovereign). The Reapers and their relationship to galactic civilization via the Citadel, the Geth, the Protheans & their beacons, Indoctrination etc. are all central to the plot of that game. Saren is not an independent operator, and Sovereign becomes a major presence, with the game culminating in his defeat. You couldn't lift them out and replace them with 'any other force'.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:02
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Does anyone else remember the Mass Effect 3 ending generated that had something like 18 different endings based upon half a dozen major choices throughout the three games? That's basically my canon ending for the game because all of them lead very organically from the choices you make, and cover a very wide range of 100% Happy Successful Future ending to incredibly Grimdark. The best part, however, was how it incorporated your Renegade/Paragon score, which purely determined how Shepherd reacts to the ending. I think one of them had her siding with the Krogan as they start a new war, which was pretty much how I saw it happening. I think the site that hosted it is gone now though.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:03
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I could never get past how cobbled together the happy ending mod was. Not just the dude mumbling "we have Shepard" into his desk mic but everything is hacked together from recycled Joker lines and old ME2 cutscenes. My favorite bit was Shepard taking Liara's place in the memorial wall scene so he suddenly had a feminine walk. I know Mass Effect isn't mod friendly at all but it was just silly to me and I was surprised how many people were saying it was great.
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Sep 11, 2013 17:13
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Even setting aside the execution (because, in fairness, it was an amateur job, done in someone's spare time), it fixes basically none of the problems with the ending, and turns it into a limp happy-fest to an even worse extent than the EC did.
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Sep 11, 2013 17:15
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Dr. Abysmal posted:I could never get past how cobbled together the happy ending mod was. Not just the dude mumbling "we have Shepard" into his desk mic but everything is hacked together from recycled Joker lines and old ME2 cutscenes. My favorite bit was Shepard taking Liara's place in the memorial wall scene so he suddenly had a feminine walk. I know Mass Effect isn't mod friendly at all but it was just silly to me and I was surprised how many people were saying it was great. Why weren't you playing femshep? 
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Sep 11, 2013 18:59
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:Why weren't you playing femshep? Why do you prefer Pepsi over Coke??
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Sep 11, 2013 19:02
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