Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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Germstore: Oct 17, 2012; A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Ithaqua posted:

I'd never make it in sales.

Microsoft sales guy: I need you to do a demonstration on how Foo integrates with Bar
Me: Foo doesn't integrate with bar at all right now.
MSG: But they need it to.
Me: But it doesn't.
MSG: But it's a critical business requirement!
Me: Then maybe Foo isn't the correct tool for them to be using.

We had a sales person trying to sell something to the company I work for.
Coworker: Can it do X?
Them: I don't know about X, but if you need it to it can.
Coworker: I like that answer.
Me: That is a complete non-answer.

Later my boss told me I should be more diplomatic. We ended up buying the program and it is a complete piece of poo poo. Apparently sales isn't that hard. Even if your answer doesn't make any sense if the mark wants to believe it won't matter.

# ? Sep 12, 2013 22:38

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# ? May 21, 2024 02:53

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Germstore posted:

We had a sales person trying to sell something to the company I work for.
Coworker: Can it do X?
Them: I don't know about X, but if you need it to it can.
Coworker: I like that answer.
Me: That is a complete non-answer.

Later my boss told me I should be more diplomatic. We ended up buying the program and it is a complete piece of poo poo. Apparently sales isn't that hard. Even if your answer doesn't make any sense if the mark wants to believe it won't matter.

"Will you put into a contract with a satisfaction or money back guarantee that it does X to the level that we need it to?"

# ? Sep 12, 2013 22:50

RoadCrewWorker: Nov 19, 2007; camels aren't so great

Volmarias posted:

"Will you put into a contract with a satisfaction or money back guarantee that it does X to the level that we need it to?"

Good lord, how incredibly rude! What a preposterous proposal.

# ? Sep 12, 2013 22:54

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

It's not really code, but I think it fits.

# ? Sep 12, 2013 23:47

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

"Those of you in IT probably already know about GitHub. It's a hip new tool used by coders- people who type the ones and zeroes that make computers work- to build programs like angry birds and microsoft excel."

# ? Sep 13, 2013 00:23

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Internet Janitor posted:

"Those of you in IT probably already know about GitHub. It's a hip new tool used by coders- people who type the ones and zeroes that make computers work- to build programs like angry birds and microsoft excel."

Not wrong: http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2667694577001/writing-a-new-dictionary/

# ? Sep 13, 2013 00:26

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

My favorite part is how one definition has : and the other two have --.

The intern putting together infographic reformatted and "spell-checked" one, but was too lazy to do anything else for the other two.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 00:27

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

"Rep-Reciprocity."

# ? Sep 13, 2013 00:29

Mr.Radar: Nov 5, 2005; You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.

So in Visual Studio 2013 Microsoft is finally adding the most useful features of C99/C11 that everyone else has supported since forever. I would be over the moon on this if I weren't stuck using Visual Studio 2005 for C development at my job. "Well that's pretty old, wouldn't they be moving to 2013 pretty soon then?" Yes, if they hadn't just started transitioning to 2010 shortly after I was hired in 2011 which is still ongoing (I'm told we can expect the first customer shipments of builds with 2010 late next year or early 2015). At this pace I'm expecting I'll finally be able to start coding against a language standard younger than I am at work in about 15 or so years :suicide:

# ? Sep 13, 2013 01:01

Strong Sauce: Jul 2, 2003; You know I am not really your father.

yaoi prophet posted:

It's not really code, but I think it fits.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Not wrong: http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2667694577001/writing-a-new-dictionary/

Don't tell me what you do, did you say you got $100 MEEELEEEON from KleinerPerkins for sending e-notes? (Yes I get that its a business program)

Edit:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2668219427001/top-5-colleges-with-the-highest-earning-graduates/?playlist_id=937116503001
In this video, Harvey Mudd is #1 on their earnings list, the anchorwoman has _never_ heard of it.

Maybe it's because I live in CA, but isn't Harvey Mudd a very well known school? Are the Claremont Colleges not well known?

Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Sep 13, 2013

# ? Sep 13, 2013 02:51

Strong Sauce: Jul 2, 2003; You know I am not really your father.

PS FoxNews is hiring: https://jobs.github.com/positions/5e235cda-64d1-11e2-86fa-e82690d69341

# ? Sep 13, 2013 03:13

Amarkov: Jun 21, 2010

Strong Sauce posted:

In this video, Harvey Mudd is #1 on their earnings list, the anchorwoman has _never_ heard of it.

Maybe it's because I live in CA, but isn't Harvey Mudd a very well known school? Are the Claremont Colleges not well known?

I also live in California. Before I moved down to the southern half, I only knew Harvey Mudd existed because one of my high school teachers had a nephew he wouldn't shut up about that went there. I didn't learn that it was part of something called "the Claremont Colleges" until I applied there.

It's not nearly as well known as you're thinking.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 04:29

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

I've also never heard of it.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 04:46

Zhentar: Sep 28, 2003; Brilliant Master Genius

Mr.Radar posted:

At this pace I'm expecting I'll finally be able to start coding against a language standard younger than I am at work in about 15 or so years .

I code to a newer language standard than you... In MUMPS. Just to put things in perspective for you.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 05:51

Coffee Mugshot: Jun 26, 2010; by Lowtax

I dunno, I remember going to the ACM Socal programming competition like 3 times and Harvey Mudd beating us up.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 05:55

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Harvey Mudd is a pretty good engineering school, but they're small, so most people haven't heard of them

# ? Sep 13, 2013 06:35

Rottbott: Jul 27, 2006; DMC

Mr.Radar posted:

So in Visual Studio 2013 Microsoft is finally adding the most useful features of C99/C11 that everyone else has supported since forever. I would be over the moon on this if I weren't stuck using Visual Studio 2005 for C development at my job. "Well that's pretty old, wouldn't they be moving to 2013 pretty soon then?" Yes, if they hadn't just started transitioning to 2010 shortly after I was hired in 2011 which is still ongoing (I'm told we can expect the first customer shipments of builds with 2010 late next year or early 2015). At this pace I'm expecting I'll finally be able to start coding against a language standard younger than I am at work in about 15 or so years .

That is horrific. I'd leave.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 08:49

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

What would you rather program in, MUMPS or a language that actually give you the mumps?

# ? Sep 13, 2013 13:06

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Strong Sauce posted:

Maybe it's because I live in CA, but isn't Harvey Mudd a very well known school? Are the Claremont Colleges not well known?

Nobody has has heard of Mudd or Claremont Colleges.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 14:05

astr0man: Feb 21, 2007; hollyeo deuroga

Mr.Radar posted:

So in Visual Studio 2013 Microsoft is finally adding the most useful features of C99/C11 that everyone else has supported since forever. I would be over the moon on this if I weren't stuck using Visual Studio 2005 for C development at my job. "Well that's pretty old, wouldn't they be moving to 2013 pretty soon then?" Yes, if they hadn't just started transitioning to 2010 shortly after I was hired in 2011 which is still ongoing (I'm told we can expect the first customer shipments of builds with 2010 late next year or early 2015). At this pace I'm expecting I'll finally be able to start coding against a language standard younger than I am at work in about 15 or so years .

I'm in a shop that still uses VS2005 as well. We might transition to 2010 next year, but even if we do we'll still have to stick with C89 anyways, which really isn't that terrible of a requirement. :shrug:

# ? Sep 13, 2013 15:21

Posting Principle: Dec 10, 2011; by Ralp

I haven't done plain C in a long time. If you don't have to target Windows, is it safe to use C99 these days?

# ? Sep 13, 2013 15:30

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

If you can ignore Solaris / SunPro CC as well, yes.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 15:33

Rocko Bonaparte: Mar 12, 2002; Every day is Friday!

astr0man posted:

I'm in a shop that still uses VS2005 as well. We might transition to 2010 next year, but even if we do we'll still have to stick with C89 anyways, which really isn't that terrible of a requirement.

Are there some major practical reasons that you haven't migrated? I see this come up so much. I just assume in grown-up places that they have a continuous integration flow, or at least some automation going behind the tool for generating builds, and that stuff would go to complete poo poo.

Then I think about all the EE stuff I've seen that, in some cases, is still done in VC6.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 15:38

astr0man: Feb 21, 2007; hollyeo deuroga

We have to support for a bunch of obscure *nix platforms that require it.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 15:41

Drastic Actions: Apr 7, 2009; FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!; Nap Ghost

Got some downtime while waiting for our next release to go out, so I'm going through and cleaning up/deleting old ASP code. Then I saw this.

code:

	rType = request("rType")
	if rType = 0 then
		amt2Total = "(SELECT COALESCE(SUM(tblWks.finalHours),0) "	
	else
		amt2Total = "(SELECT COALESCE(SUM(tblWks.finalHours),0) "	
	end if

EDIT: Also just noticed that this exact code was copy and pasted in three different files.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 16:05

double riveting: Jul 5, 2013; look at them go

drasticactions posted:

code:

	rType = request("rType")
	if rType = 0 then
		amt2Total = "(SELECT COALESCE(SUM(tblWks.finalHours),0) "	
	else
		amt2Total = "(SELECT COALESCE(SUM(tblWks.finalHours),0) "	
	end if

Better safe than sorry!!

quote:

EDIT: Also just noticed that this exact code was copy and pasted in three different files.

That, I believe, is called an "Enterprise solution": Safe in ALL the places.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 16:27

Golbez: Oct 9, 2002; 1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

Having to support my predecessor's code (and follow his stupid no-object rules for a year before he left) is really making me bitter about this job stunting my growth as a programmer for three loving years.

I don't want to break the table so I won't put it in a tag. Just know that this is one line of code. (Is it okay to put it in the code tag?)

if ($_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['plan'] != ""): $aPlanSettings = $_SESSION['website_enrollment']['group']['plans'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['plan']]['settings']; elseif ($_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['enrollee_info']['current'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['individual']]['plan'] != ""): $aPlanSettings = $_SESSION['website_enrollment']['group']['plans'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['enrollee_info']['current'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['individual']]['plan']]['settings']; endif;

Also, this isn't the longest line of code in the file. The longest is a 614 character line that ends "endif; endif; endif;". It's a insane person's twisted version of Shantih, Shantih, Shantih. Did I mention this file has eleven thousand lines?

At least I think I've exorcised most of the "if(...): foreach(...): if(...): foreach(...): if(...); foo(); bar(); endif; endforeach; endif; endforeach; endif;" trains that took up single lines.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 16:51

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Didn't you know? If you put it all on one line it only takes one CPU instruction to process!

# ? Sep 13, 2013 18:10

New Yorp New Yorp: Jul 18, 2003; Only in Kenya.; Pillbug

Golbez posted:

Having to support my predecessor's code (and follow his stupid no-object rules for a year before he left) is really making me bitter about this job stunting my growth as a programmer for three loving years.

I don't want to break the table so I won't put it in a tag. Just know that this is one line of code. (Is it okay to put it in the code tag?)

if ($_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['plan'] != ""): $aPlanSettings = $_SESSION['website_enrollment']['group']['plans'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['plan']]['settings']; elseif ($_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['enrollee_info']['current'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['individual']]['plan'] != ""): $aPlanSettings = $_SESSION['website_enrollment']['group']['plans'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['enrollee_info']['current'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['individual']]['plan']]['settings']; endif;

Also, this isn't the longest line of code in the file. The longest is a 614 character line that ends "endif; endif; endif;". It's a insane person's twisted version of Shantih, Shantih, Shantih. Did I mention this file has eleven thousand lines?

At least I think I've exorcised most of the "if(...): foreach(...): if(...): foreach(...): if(...); foo(); bar(); endif; endforeach; endif; endforeach; endif;" trains that took up single lines.

lovely developers use that as a form of job security. "If it's hard to read and I'm the only person capable of maintaining the software, I can never be fired!" :downs:

# ? Sep 13, 2013 18:13

Mr.Radar: Nov 5, 2005; You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.

astr0man posted:

I'm in a shop that still uses VS2005 as well. We might transition to 2010 next year, but even if we do we'll still have to stick with C89 anyways, which really isn't that terrible of a requirement.

Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit about bad it is, but it's still frustrating when Microsoft's pigheadedness about native development over the past decade (particularly C development) is the only reason I haven't been able to use C99 features to add extra safety to my code (it forces me to give my variables more scope than I would like to and prevents me from using const in some places), plus the horror that I still won't be able to until we drop 2005 and 2010 which will take way too long. Of course we also still use CVS and it doesn't seem that bad either (given the business practices we've developed around it) so I may not have the clearest perspective :v:

# ? Sep 13, 2013 18:15

Golbez: Oct 9, 2002; 1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

Ithaqua posted:

lovely developers use that as a form of job security. "If it's hard to read and I'm the only person capable of maintaining the software, I can never be fired!"

When he was here, the "joke" was he would quit if he had to make a mobile version of the site, or translate it into Spanish. Long after he quit, I found out the third thing on that list: "if we hired any other developers". It was a shock akin to Robocop learning his hidden fourth directive. So it wasn't so much job security, as he knew his code and policies were absolute poo poo. And I end up suffering the most for it.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 19:38

substitute: Aug 30, 2003; you for my mum

Golbez posted:

Having to support my predecessor's code (and follow his stupid no-object rules for a year before he left) is really making me bitter about this job stunting my growth as a programmer for three loving years.

I don't want to break the table so I won't put it in a tag. Just know that this is one line of code. (Is it okay to put it in the code tag?)

if ($_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['plan'] != ""): $aPlanSettings = $_SESSION['website_enrollment']['group']['plans'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['plan']]['settings']; elseif ($_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['enrollee_info']['current'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['individual']]['plan'] != ""): $aPlanSettings = $_SESSION['website_enrollment']['group']['plans'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['enrollee_info']['current'][$_SESSION['website_enrollment']['change']['individual']]['plan']]['settings']; endif;

Also, this isn't the longest line of code in the file. The longest is a 614 character line that ends "endif; endif; endif;". It's a insane person's twisted version of Shantih, Shantih, Shantih. Did I mention this file has eleven thousand lines?

At least I think I've exorcised most of the "if(...): foreach(...): if(...): foreach(...): if(...); foo(); bar(); endif; endforeach; endif; endforeach; endif;" trains that took up single lines.

gently caress this person. I hope he never gets another development job.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 19:50

Dr Monkeysee: Oct 11, 2002; just a fox like a hundred thousand others; Nap Ghost

yaoi prophet posted:

It's not really code, but I think it fits.

Petition to rename "Pull Request" to "Coder e-Note".

# ? Sep 13, 2013 20:09

Golbez: Oct 9, 2002; 1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

substitute posted:

gently caress this person. I hope he never gets another development job.

His name is now spoken with daggers here.

The worst part was he had a rule of no OOP or frameworks or any other "advanced" programming techniques. Having to stunt myself to him and then support his code has probably set me back five years in skill development, to the point that I'm seriously questioning whether or not I should find a new career because I'm hopelessly lost. :sigh:

# ? Sep 13, 2013 20:49

Zhentar: Sep 28, 2003; Brilliant Master Genius

Maintaining awful legacy code is a skill with ample employment opportunities.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 20:53

RoadCrewWorker: Nov 19, 2007; camels aren't so great

This stuff makes me really wonder where the line between "public named shaming" and "accountability and responsibility to avoid further damage" lies. Guess there's too many slippery slopes though...

# ? Sep 13, 2013 20:54

kitten smoothie: Dec 29, 2001

Ithaqua posted:

lovely developers use that as a form of job security. "If it's hard to read and I'm the only person capable of maintaining the software, I can never be fired!"

Reminded me of a former colleague of mine who wrote stuff like that. He wrote intentionally obfuscated code and if he left comments at all they were useless ones on the order of

code:

# bar the foo, given butts
void bar_foo(char* butts) {
   // bunch of inscrutable crap here without any useful comments
}

One time, the dude goes on PTO for a month straight. Maybe two days in, we get a bug ticket about a particular piece of internally developed software. I can't even find it in source control, even though it was a critical tool for a critical group in the organization. I find that it's a completely rogue app.

He never checked in any of the code to source control, nor used any of our standard build procedures. He was building it himself in his home directory and manually copying a bunch of jar files to the central app server. It would not even start up without making a single useless query to a MySQL server hosted on his workstation (in spite of pulling its actual data from our main Oracle DB). Also, while we had a default umask that made things at the very least group-readable (in case you got hit by a bus, or went on PTO for a month) he overrode that and turned off read permissions for anyone but him, so we had to open a helpdesk ticket to even be able to look at his code.

I thought he'd get canned when this came to light, but nope, that was ten years ago and he still works there

# ? Sep 13, 2013 21:01

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Speaking of MUMPS, I interviewed for a company that uses an offshoot of it. Part of the interview was to familiarize myself with the language I'd be working with and take a test on it. This was before I'd really gotten any experience in coding or programming.

It was like something I've never seen, like when you're in a VIM or something and pressing keys on the keyboard just results in a bunch of unreadable gibberish. It was the craziest, most low-level thing ever.

I still don't know how I made it through that test and still can't explain the drat thing to anyone.

Case in point, this is 99 bottles of beer written using that language:

code:

@OW,
100@XV@FV
@[@{@(@IF{=0 "No more"}," bottle",IF{~=1 "s"}," of beer on the wall, ",
      @IF{=0 "no more"}," bottle",IF{~=1 "s"}," of beer"),
    @IF{=0 "Go to the store and buy some more, 99 bottles of beer on the wall.";
        @("Take one down and pass it around, ",
          -1@IF{=0 "no more"}," bottle",IF{~=1 "s"}," of beer on the wall")},
    ""}]
@MV@Av@Wb@TW

# ? Sep 13, 2013 21:33

Golbez: Oct 9, 2002; 1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

kitten smoothie posted:

I can't even find it in source control

Did I mention this was another thing we didn't have

Updates consisted of him looking at my dev directory over the network and running a merge program to his directory which was the master directory and oh god

# ? Sep 13, 2013 21:48

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# ? May 21, 2024 02:53

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Golbez posted:

Updates consisted of him looking at my dev directory over the network and running a merge program to his directory which was the master directory and oh god

Still better than ClearCase.

# ? Sep 13, 2013 22:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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