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Boneless Jogger posted:I still believe that during Homestuck's climax, just as everything seems lost, John will screw up and launch something out of his sylladex that turns the entire situation around. I've had this idea since the early days of Homestuck, and I'm not letting it go. Mostly because I want it to happen rather than any real evidence. "Bloody hell, Egbert! Four years on and you're still running Last In, First Out? And when the hell did you captchalog that cueball, anyway?"
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Sep 15, 2013 08:23
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lotus circle posted:I demand cosplayers crush themselves under real houses for the best effect! Agreed
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Sep 15, 2013 08:28
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the only problem is that the more time we spend in aranea's bad ending, the cheaper its going to feel when john jumps in and retcons the whole thing away. sure, him whisking away a day or two of updates is fine in the grand scheme if things, but if we get shown too much before removing it all it's going to feel like a colossal waste of time. remember that the other two times in the comic that beta timelines have been shown, they were very limited. in alternate dave and alternate rose's bad future, hussie accelerated a few years for a brief catchup on what was happening before wiping the slate clean and making davesprite. in vriska and terezi's alternate coin flip outcome, only a few pages of doc scratch speculation happened before revealing the true outcome of the alpha timeline. basically what I'm saying is the sooner John clears this mess up, the better.
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Sep 15, 2013 09:06
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It's this simple: We are 18 minutes into a highly indulgent drum solo by a prog rock band we all REALLY like. We're hoping he only goes on for two more minutes. He might go on for 10. Let's hope it ends sooner rather than later.
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Sep 15, 2013 09:18
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Cabbit posted:I'm still laughing at you. The whole 'I don't care/the characters aren't compelling/etc/etc' folk are always the sort who keep rabidly following despite their own vehemence. I don't feel like I've been vehement. I don't hate the comic now or whatever, I like it and I'm not pretending otherwise. I still find the story interesting in its own right, it's just that the characters aren't really anymore a part of why it's interesting to me. Remember when Rose stabbed that ogre or whatever it was in the eyes with her needles after getting to LOLAR? Seeing her get that vicious was to me a bigger emotional gutpunch then than Jade's death is now. (Maybe Homestuck, among its many layers of interpretations, can also be seen as an allegory of the global financial system, what with emotional investment in characters crashing ever downward as it is.) Bongo Bill posted:Honestly, now that I think of it, I think it's clear that the whole point is that Aranea's meddling is ruining the story. The DBZ powerup sequence was an example of the sort of fake drama that the comic usually mocks, so for that reason it's probably still mockery. If John retcons all that Aranea diversion and it turns out to just have been an "ahah, Dragonball Z is bad" message, I'm going to feel quite underwhelmed.
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Sep 15, 2013 11:16
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Honestly? It's probably going to stick. Either way it means nothing in the story and is just an eyerolling plot twist that accomplishes nothing but a few ruffled feathers. I kind of feel like ruffling some feathers is all Homestuck has accomplished since July-ish maybe.
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Sep 15, 2013 11:33
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You guys missed the point of these updates. It's for the avatars.    
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Sep 15, 2013 12:18
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Yeah, I kind of feel like Homestuck has jumped the shark, which is a shame because for a long time I absolutely adored it. It really feels like the fact that Hussie is labouring under an imperative to get it all finished as fast as possible has curtailed the fullness of the characters; his old tendency to meander grandiloquently into whatever was interesting is now replaced by a sort of rote transfer from plot beat to plot beat, and the characters who previously flourished when allowed to wend their way organically feel instead like trimmed-down exposition machines who exist just to move the plot to its next stopping station. They recite a couple of their quirks, or a joke, in each conversation, but they're no longer given a lot of space to breath and dialogue organically. That the plot is becoming ever-more labyrinthine, in my view, isn't the problem; rather the problem is that the stakes, made impactful to the reader by their investment in the characters, have flattened out. Death becoming meaningless is part of this, but I think the larger part of it is the fact that Hussie's normally stellar characterisation has become slipshod and mechanical over the past couple of months.
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Sep 15, 2013 12:21
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McStephenson posted:It's this simple: It's not even that. We're two weeks and sixty pages into a plotline we don't like, and it's understandable people are getting a little antsy... until you realize the story so far is four years and six thousand pages long. Maybe it's meandering nonsense, but it's a drop in an entire ocean of meandering nonsense. And it only takes like ten minutes to read. If you're tired of MSPA... maybe drop out for a month or two, then come back and read everything you missed in one go? I know that checking any website is a tough habit to break, but dropping it for a while and then getting through a big chunk all at once might help you decide if it's still worth your time. (Or if you just want to see how it wraps up, maybe skip out until the story's over, and then spend an afternoon catching up on what you missed. I've done that with plenty of webcomics before and I've never regretted it.) ZenMasterBullshit posted:As opposed to Homestucks heroes who...don't do much of all and become more broken as time goes on. (I mean Look at Dave, dude's kissing an alien who doesn't even know his name!) Okay, this is just silly. You've never read a story where the hero is at his absolute lowest right at the start of the third act? That's hollywood screenwriting 101.
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Sep 15, 2013 13:43
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It's not just like the last two weeks' arc dropped out of nowhere, it's the culmination of lots of little issues over the last two acts or so. Death being cheapened to the point of meaninglessness, endless new characters grabbing the spotlight, frustration with the post scratch kids, the endless escalation of DBZ-style power levels, constant detours and now even in-universe retcons that slow down progress even more... These are all things that have bothered people along the way, but we're really starting to see their cumulative effect. John retconning this particular digression wouldn't change that, it might even just underscore the issue. You can still really enjoy Home stuck and each individual update while still feeling it might've lost a step.
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Sep 15, 2013 14:29
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Indie Rocktopus posted:
That only works in a story that's set up to have 3 acts, narratively speaking. The dark middle chapter is suppose to be,you know, the middle? Theoretically and if Hussie isn't bullshitting us this is the build up to the climax, it's the third act now. Traditionally that dark worry is solved in the first part of Act 3, usually right after the hero learns a big lesson/realizes a truth/pulls off a big stunt. We're past Jabba's palace and we're on Endor now, fighting storm troopers and gettin our plan set up. Also, is it just me, or do the pre-6 acts not feel important compared to act six in the set up of plot threads. Maybe it's just because we're stuck in this inevitably failed plan of Araena's but basically all the plot points that are important to the story as it is now are things and characters introduced in Act 6 itself. Hell, even the old kids have barely done anything. Jade Turned evil, chased John, then died.
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Sep 15, 2013 16:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:That only works in a story that's set up to have 3 acts, narratively speaking. The dark middle chapter is suppose to be,you know, the middle? Theoretically and if Hussie isn't bullshitting us this is the build up to the climax, it's the third act now. Traditionally that dark worry is solved in the first part of Act 3, usually right after the hero learns a big lesson/realizes a truth/pulls off a big stunt. We're past Jabba's palace and we're on Endor now, fighting storm troopers and gettin our plan set up. Cascade was effectively the conclusion to Homestuck as it had been up until then and everything since has been a kind of Homestuck 2: Over-used subtitle boogaloo
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Sep 15, 2013 17:24
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Dolash posted:These are all things that have bothered people along the way, but we're really starting to see their cumulative effect. John retconning this particular digression wouldn't change that, it might even just underscore the issue. Good point! I mean the retcon power is in and of itself kind of awful seeing that whenever it gets used the narrative that lead to that point is a waste of time, yet even having it in the story now implies it is going to play a big role. I really just want the story to end, not even a satisfying ending needed, just something that will make me stop checking it on a regular basis.
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Sep 15, 2013 17:48
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Since I've caught up with Homestuck and been waiting for the updates through hiatuses, etc... I have come to realize something. Homestuck is better read all at once rather than an update at a time. The pacing feels a bit off kilter but I know that it would feel right if I was reading it straight through. Does anyone else get that feeling?
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Sep 15, 2013 18:12
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I definitely found a lot of the stuff people called endless and intolerable (like act 5.1) way better in archives than live. You don't have time to stop and forget all the characters and old things going on. Even at times like early Act 6 with the alpha kids wasn't so bad, because of all the new mystery and things still happening. It wasn't just the degrassi kids chatting, it was learning about Jaspers, getting glimpses of the new trolls, exploring the cherubs, the drama of the queen and the assassinations of jane and jake, etc.
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Sep 15, 2013 18:59
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Oh boy, the website's crapping out; it must be a new update!
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Sep 15, 2013 23:00
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Oh right, I guess Jane can give Jade a final extra li-Gamzee what the gently caress are you doing?
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Sep 15, 2013 23:03
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Yup, UPDATE. That was clever of Aranea. Looks like she might try to take Jane out of the picture too.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:04
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Aranea's just going to kill everyone, isn't she?
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Sep 15, 2013 23:05
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Gamzee just wants to thank his best customer with a big hug! Right?
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Sep 15, 2013 23:05
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Aranea's being very effective here. I guess this is why Mindfang's diary was so smug in tone.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:11
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Color Printer posted:Oh right, I guess Jane can give Jade a final extra li-Gamzee what the gently caress are you doing? Does Gamzee still have his ridiculous fastness? If he does... - Aranea comes back to life with the Ring, but she's vulnerable because, presumably, if she ever took it off, she'd re-die. A girl needs contingencies. - Kill Jade to get her out of the picture. - Provoke Jane into doing the Lifey thing. - Use she clown minion, who is good at switching stuff super fast to move Jane in front of Aranea instead of Jade, bringing Aranea back to life for reals. - Then kill Jane, I guess. Presumably she's talking to Roxy now because she's going to trick her into handing over a matriorb.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:12
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An enemy approaches. In all seriousness, in every theory I've read so far on this thread, not one has mentioned Gamzee. And that was a huge miscalculation on everyone's part.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:15
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Why'd Arenea have to mute him? It's just not the same without a spine chillin' motherfuckin' HONK.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:18
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Wyld Karde posted:Why'd Arenea have to mute him? It's just not the same without a spine chillin' motherfuckin' HONK. The HONK is on landing. HONK.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:26
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Also, Roxy and Aranea totally did that over-the-shoulder pose thing that Terezi and Vriska did right before their showdown. Could it mean something?
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Sep 15, 2013 23:26
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Bisensual posted:An enemy approaches. Gamzee is always the unstated possibility. Everyone knows he could play a part in everything, but no one dares to theorize his mysterious, miraculous ways.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:31
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Angry Walrus posted:I'm pretty sure he'll be forced to have an editor for a major company's published game. And that alone will help his writing massively. New Game+ gives the option to experience the unedited first draft. It'll be the world's first 200+ hour dating sim, and that's with speed running.
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Sep 15, 2013 23:53
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Level Slide posted:New Game+ gives the option to experience the unedited first draft. It'll be the world's first 200+ hour dating sim, and that's with speed running. So, Persona 4?  Nah I'm kidding, that's a lengthy awesome big bro sim more than it is a lengthy dating sim. Mostly.Gamzee's expression says  , but he could just as easily be here to  . It's impossible to say which it's going to end up being.
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Sep 16, 2013 01:14
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Thundarr posted:So, Persona 4? Knowing that clown? Both.
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Sep 16, 2013 01:34
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And this is why he's the most important character in Homestuck.
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Sep 16, 2013 01:40
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Nah, he's actually going to land on and kill Jane. Because he needs to eventually go and raise Caliborn/Caliope, and that's not going to happen if they never exist. And Jane dying is very much going to be a Not As Planned moment. In short, in this case, Gamzee is the Alpha Timeline reasserting it's dominance in spite of manipulations.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:18
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That doesn't exactly follow. Gamzee is Aranea's mind-controlled tool at the moment. She's probably ordering him to kill Jane as part of her plan to further derail the timeline, not the Alpha timeline reasserting itself. Unless I'm not reading you right?
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Sep 16, 2013 02:30
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Dolash posted:That doesn't exactly follow. Gamzee is Aranea's mind-controlled tool at the moment. She's probably ordering him to kill Jane as part of her plan to further derail the timeline, not the Alpha timeline reasserting itself. Unless I'm not reading you right? Regardless, if Gamzee croaks, that's confirmation some or all of this is getting walked back. I can't imagine Jane willingly Life-ing him, mind control or no.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:35
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Aranea's basically got the world's biggest hammer with her mind-control powers and knowledge of the inhabitants of the furthest ring, and she's seeing everything as nails. Looking at everyone in terms of their power sets and how they help/harm her. Hence why she took Jade out quickly, since she was just a smidge OP. She "fixed" Jake not because she wants his help, but because she wants the help of his powers. The whole thing is a big chess game to her. She clearly allowed Jane to go over and try to revive Jade. If she was just going to kill her via Gamzee, why there and not where Jane was hovering before? Why risk Jane successfully rezzing Jade before Gamzee could land? My bet? She has some use for Jane's life powers. Either to give herself one more insurance life, or to rez someone else from the void or something.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:40
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Wookie Bouquet posted:Good point! I mean the retcon power is in and of itself kind of awful seeing that whenever it gets used the narrative that lead to that point is a waste of time, yet even having it in the story now implies it is going to play a big role. I really just want the story to end, not even a satisfying ending needed, just something that will make me stop checking it on a regular basis. A way around this is that this actually is John's retcon.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:53
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I strongly suspect at this point that this isn't going to be a doomed timeline or retconned out or whatever. This is the timeline, and Aranea's unwittingly placing the rest of the characters at a huge disadvantage for when the real party starts. She took out Jade, their strongest ally even when Grimbark, and now she's going after the heroes' rezzer. More and more it looks like all the villains' anti-English plans will do is decimate everyone's defenses for when he finally gets here. And since he's already here, that's kind of a dire situation.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:54
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Bobulus posted:Aranea's basically got the world's biggest hammer with her mind-control powers and knowledge of the inhabitants of the furthest ring, and she's seeing everything as nails. Looking at everyone in terms of their power sets and how they help/harm her. Hence why she took Jade out quickly, since she was just a smidge OP. She "fixed" Jake not because she wants his help, but because she wants the help of his powers. The whole thing is a big chess game to her. I figured she didn't attack Jane head on because she might actually be a tough opponent in a straight up fight, but using Gamzee as a sneak attack is a much safer takedown. Plus it frees her up to get the drop on Roxy. At bare minimum she needs Gamzee to keep Jane from reviving Jade.
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Sep 16, 2013 03:35
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Crazy lack of sleep talking: Aranea gets defeated by Casey and her skeleton army. Because her level of hubris should be rewarded by being taken out by someone a weak as a game npc.
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Sep 16, 2013 04:01
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Bobulus posted:Crazy lack of sleep talking: Aranea gets defeated by Casey and her skeleton army. Because her level of hubris should be rewarded by being taken out by someone a weak as a game npc. It would be some much-needed plot resolution for poor neglected Bonebone.
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Sep 16, 2013 04:04
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