China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

I'm not making excuses but honestly it's there's plenty of modern stories of US police officers or prison officials torturing and killing prisoners or suspects. It's definitely progress even though it's only happening in this case because of a relatively high-profile political victim. Even today if you're poor and the wrong color in the US, deaths while in custody are seriously under-investigated or swept under the rug.

# ? Sep 4, 2013 20:35

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# ? May 22, 2024 00:36

Arakan: May 10, 2008; After some persuasion, Fluttershy finally opens up, and Twilight's more than happy to oblige in doing her best performance as a nice, obedient wolf-puppy.

What relevance does that have to the China thread?

# ? Sep 4, 2013 20:38

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Cream_Filling posted:

I'm not making excuses but honestly it's there's plenty of modern stories of US police officers or prison officials torturing and killing prisoners or suspects. It's definitely progress even though it's only happening in this case because of a relatively high-profile political victim. Even today if you're poor and the wrong color in the US, deaths while in custody are seriously under-investigated or swept under the rug.

There's still an institutional rule of law that does what it can to prevent forced confessions from being used. Tons of the Innocence Projects cases and other Justice organizations fight to get convictions made using coerced or suspicious confessions thrown out. Tell me if there are any Chinese legal aid groups that fight to overturn rulings gained from forcing a confession. And while there are still problems with the US system, it's still got a vastly superior legal apparatus to obtain 'justice'. Cops caught killing a prisoner in the US don't get a 'accidental harm' charge levied against them.

What is it with the desperate need for false equivalency whenever someone criticizes some aspect of Chinese government and law?

# ? Sep 4, 2013 22:53

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

pentyne posted:

There's still an institutional rule of law that does what it can to prevent forced confessions from being used. Tons of the Innocence Projects cases and other Justice organizations fight to get convictions made using coerced or suspicious confessions thrown out. Tell me if there are any Chinese legal aid groups that fight to overturn rulings gained from forcing a confession. And while there are still problems with the US system, it's still got a vastly superior legal apparatus to obtain 'justice'. Cops caught killing a prisoner in the US don't get a 'accidental harm' charge levied against them.

What is it with the desperate need for false equivalency whenever someone criticizes some aspect of Chinese government and law?

Actually my response is because cops or prison officials killing a prisoner in the US often get limited to no punishment, too, so acting all surprised seems a little excessive. It's not an excuse, it's just that your reaction seems to be ignorant.

You're also massively oversimplifying and in the past have shown you don't know what you're talking about, which is why I responded specifically to you and not other people getting upset about this.

# ? Sep 4, 2013 23:13

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

What's striking to me in this case is not that the police tortured some poor sod to death; it's that the internal investigators did it. I have heard of internal investigations before. It never made me think of water torture until now. Maybe someone better enlightened on China's anti-corruption regulations can explain this?

# ? Sep 4, 2013 23:54

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

I'd guess that it's probably "双规" which is a sort of Stalinist extralegal goon squad / Internal Affairs agency under the umbrella of the National Congress itself.

I found a general info US article about it on google:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/world/asia/accused-chinese-party-members-face-harsh-discipline.html?_r=0

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Sep 5, 2013

# ? Sep 5, 2013 00:04

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

We need a catchy little tu quoque song to link whenever someone responds to something with a non sequitur about other countries doing bad things. In a thread about the US justice system would anyone ever say "well China tortures prisoners too so don't get too high and mighty"?

# ? Sep 5, 2013 01:51

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

Arakan posted:

What relevance does that have to the China thread?

quote:

In 1894 a friend of mine shipped as a deck hand on the Steamer Tacoma, Capt. John Davis. They sailed from San Francisco for Hong Kong, China. On arriving there he and two others went ashore and got drunk. When they returned the boat was gone. At that time there was famine in China. Meat of any kind was from $1�3 per pound. So great was the suffering among the very poor that all children under 12 were sold for food in order to keep others from starving. A boy or girl under 14 was not safe in the street. You could go in any shop and ask for steak�chops�or stew meat. Part of the naked body of a boy or girl would be brought out and just what you wanted cut from it. A boy or girl's behind which is the sweetest part of the body and sold as veal cutlet brought the highest price. John staid there so long he acquired a taste for human flesh.

# ? Sep 5, 2013 02:05

porkchop_express: May 27, 2004

Well, guess you can really say your McDonald's chicken nuggets taste like poo poo and probably be right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/31/business/chinese-chicken-processors-are-cleared-to-ship-to-us.html?ref=health&_r=0

quote:

The Department of Agriculture on Friday approved four Chinese poultry processors to begin shipping a limited amount of meat to the United States, a move that is likely to add to the debate over food imports.

Initially, the companies will be allowed to export only cooked poultry products from birds raised in the United States and Canada. But critics predicted that the government would eventually expand the rules, so that chickens and turkeys bred in China could end up in the American market.

�This is the first step towards allowing China to export its own domestic chickens to the U.S.,� said Tony Corbo, the senior lobbyist for Food and Water Watch, an advocacy group that works to promote food safety.

The U.S.D.A.�s decision follows years of wrangling over the issue, and comes as Americans are increasingly focused on the origin of their food.

In recent years, imports have been the source of contamination, prompting broader worries about food safety. The Food and Drug Administration just released an analysis of imported spices, showing high levels of salmonella in coriander, oregano, sesame seeds and curry powder.

China does not have the best track record for food safety, and its chicken products in particular have raised questions. The country has had frequent outbreaks of deadly avian influenza, which it sometimes has been slow to report.

Recently, an F.D.A. investigation tied the deaths of more than 500 dogs and a handful of cats to chicken jerky treats that came from China. The treats, which were eventually recalled, additionally were blamed for sickening more than 2,500 animals.

The proposed sale of Smithfield Foods to Shuanghui International, a major Chinese food processor, has added to the industry scrutiny. In July, senators from both parties questioned Larry Pope, the chief executive of Smithfield, about the implications of his company�s deal for food safety and United States employment.

Mr. Pope responded that the deal was intended to address the rising demand for meat in China and that American workers would be employed in that effort. �This means increased capacity for U.S. producers, more jobs in processing and more exports for the U.S. economy,� Mr. Pope said. �At the same time, we will continue to supply our same high-quality, renowned products to U.S. consumers.�

The poultry trade between the United States and China has been contentious for years. Under the Bush administration, the U.S.D.A. moved to allow imports of chicken from China, which has banned imports of American beef since 2003 over worries about mad cow disease.

In response, Congress blocked Chinese chicken exports. China retaliated by slapping huge tariffs on American chicken. The fight ended up at the World Trade Organization, which ruled that the tariffs were too high.

After that, the U.S.D.A. then audited Chinese processing plants, giving its approval for them to process raw birds from the United States and Canada.

Under the new rules, the Chinese facilities will verify that cooked products exported to the United States came from American or Canadian birds. So no U.S.D.A. inspector will be present in the plants.

And because the poultry will be processed, it will not require country-of-origin labeling. Nor will consumers eating chicken noodle soup from a can or chicken nuggets in a fast-food restaurant know if the chicken came from Chinese processing plants.

�We certainly don�t look forward to any more imports, but we also realize free trade is a two-way street,� said Tom Super, spokesman for the National Chicken Council, which represents big chicken processors in the United States. �We�re hoping the Chinese will look a little more favorably on our chicken products and on other U.S. agricultural imports.�

but that's okay because it's all relative. Enjoy your soylent shitballs. With honey mustard dipping sauce.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1280274/dont-judge-china-food-safety-international-standards-says

quote:

China�s status as a developing country should be taken into account when evaluating the country�s food safety standards, said a senior food safety official.

�If we were to take European Union air quality standards and apply them to Beijing, we would fail every day,� Wang Zhutian, assistant to the director at the National Centre for Food Safety Risk Assessment, told China National Radio on Wednesday.

Wang stressed China was �still developing� and thus needed to base its own food safety standards on �national conditions� rather than blindly following international ones.

He said the country needed to use its own risk assessment methods to establish its own food safety standards because this would be good for the entire food industry.

�I�m not saying we should ignore the standards of developed countries. We can still learn from their advanced assessment methods � and use them as indicators,� he said.

China has been hit by a succession of food problems in the last year � a lengthy list that includes cadmium-tainted rice, copper-sulfate tainted preserved duck eggs, fake mutton made from rat meat, pesticide-laced ginger and recycled cooking oil.

A string of �food forgeries� including eggs, beef, tofu and honey have also made news headlines in recent months.

National food safety standards fell under increasing scrutiny in 2008, after melamine-tainted milk powder affected an estimated 300,000 people - including 50,000 babies, six of whom were eventually killed.

Meanwhile, the National Health and Family Planning Commission on Wednesday announced at a regular news conference that the government was looking to strengthen standards concerning food contaminants, fungal toxins, food additives and food labels.

The overhaul is part of a five-year plan to upgrade the country�s notorious food safety regulations.

According to the plans, first released in June last year, the government will improve national food safety standards by "revamping outdated standards, reviewing and abolishing any contradicting or overlapping standards and working out new regulation", state news agency Xinhua reported on Wednesday.

porkchop_express fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Sep 5, 2013

# ? Sep 5, 2013 03:30

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

How hosed up is our food industry that we ship raw chicken from the US to be processed in China and then ship it back to be eaten. :psyduck:

# ? Sep 5, 2013 06:17

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Arglebargle III posted:

How hosed up is our food industry that we ship raw chicken from the US to be processed in China and then ship it back to be eaten.

Well those immigrants were demanding above 4 dollars an hour, time to show them.

# ? Sep 5, 2013 06:39

karthun: Nov 16, 2006; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Arglebargle III posted:

How hosed up is our food industry that we ship raw chicken from the US to be processed in China and then ship it back to be eaten.

Not many people in the US eat chicken feet. The Chinese however love it.

# ? Sep 5, 2013 06:43

WarpedNaba: Feb 8, 2012; Being social makes me swell!

karthun posted:

Not many people in the US eat chicken feet. The Chinese however love it.

Chicken feet makes the best stock, though. Seriously, it's like those groundwalkers were made of Gelatin.

# ? Sep 5, 2013 08:20

cafel: Mar 29, 2010; This post is hurting the economy!

karthun posted:

Not many people in the US eat chicken feet. The Chinese however love it.

Yeah, but the bottom line is that the bulk shipping by sea is so cheap it's more profitable to outsource pretty much any labor to China no matter how much traveling the product needs to do. Here on the coast of California we used to have a bunch of canneries to process fish the Pacific fishing fleets would bring in. They're all gone now, the fishing fleets flash freeze their catches on board then it's loaded onto bulk transports to China. There the fish is processed and shipped back to California to possibly be put on a truck to be hauled out to the Midwest. It saves a couple dollars on the ton over just using US workers, but that adds up to a fair amount of money annually.

Blame the low cost of energy in the form of fossil fuels and the extreme efficiency of modular shipping containers.

# ? Sep 5, 2013 08:33

Fuschia tude: Dec 26, 2004; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

WarpedNaba posted:

Chicken feet makes the best stock, though. Seriously, it's like those groundwalkers were made of Gelatin.

Uh, they literally are. (OK, technically the precursor, collagen; same as the usual sources, pig and beef skins.)

# ? Sep 5, 2013 21:30

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

I figure since we're talking about chicken this might be relevant.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/11/30/1259429326061.html

quote:

A HOLE-IN-THE-WALL canteen in Hong Kong that offers dishes for less than $1.50 has become the world's cheapest Michelin-starred restaurant.

Tim Ho Wan, which means Add Good Luck, can seat only 20 people in its steamy dining room where battered bamboo baskets of dim sum sell for as little as $1.42.

Compared with other Michelin-ranked restaurants where a meal can cost more than $400, Tim Ho Wan is excellent value.

Michelin guide director Jean-Luc Naret said it was the "most affordable starred restaurant in the world".

Since the 90s Michelin has been getting a river of poo poo for the vast majority of its starred restaurants being in France or serving french cuisine, so it's nice to see them making an effort to acknowledge other cooking traditions.

I would like to know if this particular restaurant is especially notable in Hong Kong. Street food in America has traditionally been pretzels and overcooked hotdogs, until food trucks started bring in much higher quality products into the cities. People in this thread have always mentioned the quality of Chinese street vendors as being especially high compared to other countries, or pointed out the news stories where cardboard was used as filler in pork buns.

Ever since Japan started racking up more 3 stars then anywhere else I was never sure if the Michelin guide was actually trying to branch out or just relaxing their standards. Given how many episodes of travel cooking shows where Bourdain or Zimmerman eat at some outside booth or run down shack and have a mindblowing meal this new Michelin starred restaurant seems like a fairly common yet unrecognized phenomenon.

# ? Sep 14, 2013 22:11

Sogol: Apr 11, 2013; Galileo's Finger

I have been thinking it might be cool to start a street food thread with a live map that people can pin specific locations with a not about the food and maybe a pic. I recently found an amazing Egyptian truck in Oakland. It is really hard to beat good street food in China though.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 01:39

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

One interesting thing about the article is that in China spending exorbitant sums on eating out is more common than in the West. $400 per head is still in the high range in China, but people really don't blink at dropping $300-$400 for a party here, and that's middle-class people I eat with.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 04:42

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

Sogol posted:

I have been thinking it might be cool to start a street food thread with a live map that people can pin specific locations with a not about the food and maybe a pic. I recently found an amazing Egyptian truck in Oakland. It is really hard to beat good street food in China though.

Korea > China re: Street food

China's got a lot of great street food but it's got a lot of bad street food, too. And no hoddeok.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 05:45

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

Arglebargle III posted:

One interesting thing about the article is that in China spending exorbitant sums on eating out is more common than in the West. $400 per head is still in the high range in China, but people really don't blink at dropping $300-$400 for a party here, and that's middle-class people I eat with.

The tipping with a Chinese family at the end of a huge meal is always weird as an American. I know it's totally normal in the host culture, but it's like "Thanks for hustling around serving us that $300 meal, here's $3."

On the note of street food, I'm too lazy to look it up, but did anyone ever do a street food app for Android or iOS that works like the interactive map mentioned above? That was one of my shelved ideas years ago when there wasn't one at the time. Now, I have no idea. I know there are some for the food truck craze in America, but they don't apply over here. I figure you guys in China (or Korea or Singapore) would get something like this before us because, well, TIT.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 09:16

Sogol: Apr 11, 2013; Galileo's Finger

VideoTapir posted:

Korea > China re: Street food

China's got a lot of great street food but it's got a lot of bad street food, too. And no hoddeok.

I have not been in Korea enough to know, but hoddeok (new to me) looks amazing. Breakfast is my favorite street meal.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 02:42

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

Hoddeok is great, but it's the only good Korean street food. Everything else is soggy six hour old tempura or gochujang poured on something. Or a corn dog rolled in sugar.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 03:08

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

google.com.hk was blocked for my phone yesterday, and now even connecting through goagent it's giving me an untrusted connection warning. :tinfoil:

There's a big corruption takedown going on at Sinopec or China Petroleom, can't remember which. Something to do with Bo Xilai's former patron having his power base removed.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 03:09

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

Yeah, Sinica covered it on this week's show:

http://popupchinese.com/lessons/sinica/petroleum-and-purges

# ? Sep 16, 2013 05:20

vanity slug: Jul 20, 2010

Hoddeok is great but you're gonna get really fat really quick. I don't know how Koreans pull it off.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 06:19

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Yeah I listened to it and was trying to find a written thing to post for the non-listeners in the thread and that's when I found out that google's https certificate isn't checking out for me. :tinfoil:

# ? Sep 16, 2013 06:22

Omnomnomnivore: Nov 14, 2010; I'm swiftly moving toward a solution which pleases nobody! YEAGGH!

pentyne posted:

I figure since we're talking about chicken this might be relevant.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/11/30/1259429326061.html

Since the 90s Michelin has been getting a river of poo poo for the vast majority of its starred restaurants being in France or serving french cuisine, so it's nice to see them making an effort to acknowledge other cooking traditions.

I would like to know if this particular restaurant is especially notable in Hong Kong. Street food in America has traditionally been pretzels and overcooked hotdogs, until food trucks started bring in much higher quality products into the cities. People in this thread have always mentioned the quality of Chinese street vendors as being especially high compared to other countries, or pointed out the news stories where cardboard was used as filler in pork buns.

Ever since Japan started racking up more 3 stars then anywhere else I was never sure if the Michelin guide was actually trying to branch out or just relaxing their standards. Given how many episodes of travel cooking shows where Bourdain or Zimmerman eat at some outside booth or run down shack and have a mindblowing meal this new Michelin starred restaurant seems like a fairly common yet unrecognized phenomenon.

Hi Thread. I'm a big dumb gwai lou currently residing in Hong Kong. Regarding Tim Ho Wan, I won't say that they're "the best" because how can you measure that, but I will vouch that Tim Ho Wan's pork buns are really loving good. I mean goddamn. Just typing this makes me want to head up to Mong Kok right now.

Probably because of the Michelin star they're blowing up real big and have a bunch of locations all around these days. Still cheap too.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 08:21

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

Grand Fromage posted:

Hoddeok is great, but it's the only good Korean street food. Everything else is soggy six hour old tempura or gochujang poured on something. Or a corn dog rolled in sugar.

Waffles, you forgot waffles.

And hamburgers with eggs on them.

China and Korea tie for godawful-cross-the-street-to-avoid-it street food. Beondaegi vs. choudoufu.

VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Sep 16, 2013

# ? Sep 16, 2013 08:54

caberham: Mar 18, 2009; by Smythe; Grimey Drawer

Hey HK gooon, you should post in the CHINA LAN THREAD - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3549109 and hang out with us. There's quite a few HK goons here and there and we do goon meets from time to time. You can add me caberham on wechat.

Omnomnomnivore posted:

Hi Thread. I'm a big dumb gwai lou currently residing in Hong Kong. Regarding Tim Ho Wan, I won't say that they're "the best" because how can you measure that, but I will vouch that Tim Ho Wan's pork buns are really loving good. I mean goddamn. Just typing this makes me want to head up to Mong Kok right now.

Probably because of the Michelin star they're blowing up real big and have a bunch of locations all around these days. Still cheap too.

They are not in MongKok anymore because landlord raised their rent by 300% :suicide:

Buns are still good, but the lineup is ridiculous. Just go there for the take out.

That restaurant can't handle being a small eatery anymore and are aggressively expanding into different branches and chains. The awesome thing about Tim Ho Wan, is that they made Cantonese food cool again. So instead of hipster burgers and bistro food, people are opening up more and more dim sum and other Cantonese restaurants. However, the Michelin Star for most cases is the death of a restaurant because rents just go waaaaaaaaaaaaaay up.

The other local egg tart place favourited by Chris Patten : Tai Cheong bakery is not a large chain of bakeries selling ho-hum buttered up egg tarts.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 09:08

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

VideoTapir posted:

China and Korea tie for godawful-cross-the-street-to-avoid-it street food. Beondaegi vs. choudoufu.

Choudoufu tastes like stinky cheese. It may smell gross but it has a rich umami flavor with a sharp tang and lots of mellow flavors in the background. If you like blue cheese you might try choudoufu out some time, it's really much more pleasant than it smells.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 10:46

vanity slug: Jul 20, 2010

Here's some pictures of 'housing' in Hong Kong :china:

# ? Sep 16, 2013 13:07

GlassEye-Boy: Jul 12, 2001

Arglebargle III posted:

Choudoufu tastes like stinky cheese. It may smell gross but it has a rich umami flavor with a sharp tang and lots of mellow flavors in the background. If you like blue cheese you might try choudoufu out some time, it's really much more pleasant than it smells.

So true, I still get cravings for them, especially ones drizzled with hot chilly sauce. Really it's one of those things that you either love or hate, but you'll never know until you try.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 03:51

TheBalor: Jun 18, 2001

My experience with choudofu was bizarre. I would close my mouth, and I would be flooded with wonderful tastes and sensations. I would open it again, and the smell would overwhelm the taste. All the Chinese people were amazed that the gweilo would eat it, though I got a bigger reaction when I picked up a peanut with my chopsticks.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:01

hitension: Feb 14, 2005; Hey guys, I learned Chinese so that I can write shame in another language

Stinky tofu is so meh to me. Sure, it tastes good enough, but it's like... Hey, do you guys know it's possible to have a food that both tastes good AND smells good?

What's up with people posting "gweilo" all over the place now? Have enough SCMP articles been posted that this is actually the Hong Kong thread now?

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:13

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

The first time I had choudoufu I was actually drunk and someone tricked me into eating it. I asked some guy what something was and he said "here, try it!" and I did and it wasn't bad. I had an inkling that he was getting me to try stinky toufu but I went along and you know what, it was pretty good. I think that one was drenched in chili-scallion sauce. Everyone laughed when I said it was pretty good, but then when they asked "do you know what it is?" and I said "is it stinky toufu" the joke became less funny I guess.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:17

Chickenwalker: Apr 21, 2011; by FactsAreUseless

Chickenwalker fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Mar 11, 2019

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:20

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Chickenwalker posted:

You guys realize it's made in trash cans using literal human feces sometimes, right? I mean I've had it back when I didn't know any better, but that poo poo's nasty. Smells like a dirty wet dog.

Okay, where'd you hear this? :rolleyes: