Adventure Time: BMO RULES

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Adventure Time: BMO RULES

MojoKingBee: Sep 4, 2011; Everybody, there's a new king in town.

Get ready.

SgtSteel91 posted:

Sorry I just recently got back onto watching this show, but what is with all the talk about Finn losing an arm?

Throughout the series, there have been multiple instances where Finn has a robotic arm in some sort of alternate universe. First in his imagination at the start of Mortal Folly. Again in the alternate timeline in Finn the Human/Jake the Dog. Then again in the pillow world in Puhoy. And now Shoko, his past self.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 03:59

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:08

MindTheGap: Jul 24, 2007

Skywalker OG posted:

I forgot the show switched from 7:00 to 7:30.

Goddamn it.

Yeah, not remembering that AT switched from 7:30 to 7:00 would cause me to make a 7:20 face, too. :iamafag:
...Seriously, though, sorry buddy.

MojoKingBee posted:

Well, before everyone was theorizing that Finn might lose his arm in the future because they didn't give a reason for his consistently missing arm. But now their is a reason; it being symbolic of his past life as Shoko. So I was just thinking with that explanation, there would be no reason to believe that he's still going to lose an arm.

Oh, gotcha.

MojoKingBee posted:

Alternatively, what you said could be absolutely right, and this is just another reference to him losing an arm in the future.

Heh, at this point, I really don't know. As far as the writing is concerned, a lot of the more obvious possibilities to questions that fans have had ended up with answers that came totally out of left field and were in no way related to popular conjecture. I can't help but feel like some of that is deliberate, what with the highly-public and ever evolving nature of the internet and everything. I can see the writers getting a lot of feedback from the fan community, and, in an attempt to not deliver an anti-climax that most of their viewers figured out well in advance, changing the way they were going to develop the story initially. How much do you want to bet that, before there were entire Tumblrs dedicated to the notion, they were going to go with the green lady being Finn's dead mom? I'd kind of like to pick the writing crew's brain(s) on this sort of thing.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:05

Asgerd: May 6, 2012; I worked up a powerful loneliness in my massive bed, in the massive dark.; Grimey Drawer

Odd posted:

To me she looked a lot like huntress wizard. Except -1 arm and no magic.

Huntress Wizard always wears a glove over most of her right arm. That can't be a coincidence. :tinfoil:

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:17

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

Her parents traded her arm for a laptop. Worst parents ever.

But wait... Maja has been collecting things of sentimental value for a while. Maybe she has Shoko's (real) arm and it was Ash doing the trade in the title card.
(Looks over picture of Maja's junk room; painting of ghost Shoko, Finn's gold and steel swords, corpse wrapped in mattress, coffin, cane with batman symbol). No arm, but the painting is a big clue.

Also, haha tumblr.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:18

Odd: Dec 30, 2006; I think everybody just needs to maybe cool out a little maybe

Asgerd posted:

Huntress Wizard always wears a glove over most of her right arm. That can't be a coincidence.

Woah

Say Nothing posted:

Her parents traded her arm for a laptop. Worst parents ever.

But wait... Maja has been collecting things of sentimental value for a while. Maybe she has Shoko's (real) arm and it was Ash doing the trade in the title card.
(Looks over picture of Maja's junk room; painting of ghost Shoko, Finn's gold and steel swords, corpse wrapped in mattress, coffin, cane with batman symbol). No arm, but the painting is a big clue.

Those aren't Finn's swords. The hilts are all wrong. kill me

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:05

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Red Crown posted:

^^^^ Think about her last words: "...if I weren't about to hit my reset button."

You're right. Hmm...

But wait, how does reincarnation make sense when Shoko and Finn are two distinct people?

Nothing makes sense :psyduck:

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:16

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

Probably true, Finn's gold sword had a ruby gem in the hilt.
And Huntress Wizard wears one glove because she's an archer (no idea where she keeps her bow hidden. Magic bow, maybe).

I thought Shoko sounded liked Marceline. It wasn't Olivia Olson who voiced her, was it?

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:18

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

EDIT: Naw, she was voiced by this girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabelle_Fuhrman

Say Nothing posted:

Her parents traded her arm for a laptop. Worst parents ever.

But wait... Maja has been collecting things of sentimental value for a while. Maybe she has Shoko's (real) arm and it was Ash doing the trade in the title card.
(Looks over picture of Maja's junk room; painting of ghost Shoko, Finn's gold and steel swords, corpse wrapped in mattress, coffin, cane with batman symbol). No arm, but the painting is a big clue.

"cane with batman symbol"? :psyduck:

That's a mouth! It's like a green monkey headed thing

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:18

SgtSteel91: Oct 21, 2010

Odd posted:

Those aren't Finn's swords. The hilts are all wrong. kill me

And didn't Finn's gold sword become 4th-dimensional and was then used to destroy a 4th-dimensional bubble or something?

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:18

Odd: Dec 30, 2006; I think everybody just needs to maybe cool out a little maybe

SgtSteel91 posted:

And didn't Finn's gold sword become 4th-dimensional and was then used to destroy a 4th-dimensional bubble or something?

Yes. I dunno where the sword with the plant-roots-for-hilt went though. He just kind of ditched it after Dad's Dungeon

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:21

axelblaze: Oct 18, 2006; Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

_{and...oh my...could you please...

oh my...}; Grimey Drawer

Say Nothing posted:

Also, haha tumblr.

I made that joke first damnit! :nixon:

Steve Yun posted:

You're right. Hmm...

But wait, how does reincarnation make sense when Shoko and Finn are two distinct people?

Nothing makes sense

Reincarnation rarely means really being the same person. It means having the same soul but coming back as different life forms and different people would mean living your life in different ways or else you'd be stuck in a never ending loop of doing the same things over and over.

The real question is how can a world have reincarnation AND ghosts though. If Shoko reincarnated as Finn later, then wouldn't that mean her ghost moved on?

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:21

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

axleblaze posted:

Reincarnation rarely means really being the same person. It means having the same soul but coming back as different life forms

But we see two different souls. Finn is a soul, Shoko is a soul. They are talking to each other!

Nothing makes seeeennnnnsssseeee

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:30

TVs Ian: Jun 1, 2000; Such graceful, delicate creatures.

Steve Yun posted:

You're right. Hmm...

But wait, how does reincarnation make sense when Shoko and Finn are two distinct people?

Nothing makes sense

That's how reincarnation works, according to those who believe it anyway. You're not the same person you used to be, but you're shaped by memories of your past life. Like, if a past you drowned, you might be afraid of water now. Finn has the arm thing. And visiting the mansion she had been to triggered the memory. Finn winding up at the treehouse may have even been part of it, since that's where she died.

The two of them had some similarities, but they lived in different times. Shoko was raised by people who sold her arm for a laptop, Finn was raised by dogs who seemed like pretty good people. The world was still pretty chaotic when Shoko was around, by Finn's time civilization was rebuilding.

axleblaze posted:

The real question is how can a world have reincarnation AND ghosts though. If Shoko reincarnated as Finn later, then wouldn't that mean her ghost moved on?

There may not have been a real ghost involved. It may have just been a memory asserting itself, nobody else saw her.

Steve Yun posted:

But we see two different souls. Finn is a soul, Shoko is a soul. They are talking to each other!

Nothing makes seeeennnnnsssseeee

Worked like that in Avatar: The Last Airbender. He could go talk to his past lives.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 05:34

Red Crown: Oct 20, 2008; Pretend my finger's a knife.

Remember in the murder mystery episode that nobody but Finn could see the Green Ghost and none of them had any idea what he was on about. It makes sense to me that the Green Ghost appears to him because his past self has such a strong desire to return PB's amulet. I also dig that Shoko clearly has a different alignment, she's an entirely different person from Finn but he doesn't freak out about it.

This show has tons of positive messages. It's the cartoon I wish I had when I was a kid :3:

# ? Sep 17, 2013 06:00

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

TVs Ian posted:

Worked like that in Avatar: The Last Airbender. He could go talk to his past lives.

Yeah I always thought that didn't make sense either.

Red Crown posted:

Remember in the murder mystery episode that nobody but Finn could see the Green Ghost and none of them had any idea what he was on about. It makes sense to me that the Green Ghost appears to him because his past self has such a strong desire to return PB's amulet.

Okay this makes a lot of sense.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 06:03

ziasquinn: Jan 1, 2006; Fallen Rib

What a fantastic episode. Great backstory while not giving too much away. This loving show :allears:

# ? Sep 17, 2013 06:18

MojoKingBee: Sep 4, 2011; Everybody, there's a new king in town.

Get ready.

I just plain like Shoko's design, too. Well, I pretty much like every character's design, but still. She has a somewhat Asian look to her, which I don't see with many characters on the show (plus the name Shoko sounds a little Japanese, I guess?). She's pretty drat short too, which I think is cute.

I was digging PB's outfit as well. It reminded me of pre-medieval clothes or something.

MojoKingBee fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 07:19

TwoPair: Mar 28, 2010; Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta; Grimey Drawer

TVs Ian posted:

Worked like that in Avatar: The Last Airbender. He could go talk to his past lives.

Clearly Finn has to master the elements of fire, ice, candy, and lemons to become the Avatar and bring unity to the warring kingdoms of Ooo.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 07:34

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Man, these last two episodes of Adventure Time have been great. They've got an extra dose of that understatedly fantastic feel which I love about AT. That and they were pretty much cringe-free.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 07:55

Mimir: Nov 26, 2012

The soul seperates into three seperate souls upon death. One reincarnates into a new body, another stays behind as a ghost, and a third moves to one of the Dead Worlds.

This is how souls reproduce.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 08:15

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Imagine three souls on the edge of a cliff.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 08:38

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

MojoKingBee posted:

I just plain like Shoko's design, too. Well, I pretty much like every character's design, but still. She has a somewhat Asian look to her, which I don't see with many characters on the show (plus the name Shoko sounds a little Japanese, I guess?). She's pretty drat short too, which I think is cute.

I was digging PB's outfit as well. It reminded me of pre-medieval clothes or something.

Shoko is a Japanese name. And PB looks like she was a warrior-woman before building the candy kingdom.
Trying to guess PB's real (at least minimum) age, the candy kingdom was complete 15 years ago when she found baby Flame Princess wandering and PB was an adult, so no definite clues there, and The tree fort was a sapling when Shoko died. Weeping Willows grow fast, up to ten feet a year, but only live 40 to 75 years, so Shoko probably died at no more than 40-75 years ago.

....

Not a frigging clue, definitely over 40. Only Marceline or Ice King would know for sure.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 08:49

Gromit: Aug 15, 2000; I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!

Macaluso posted:

"cane with batman symbol"? That's a mouth! It's like a green monkey headed thing

You mean "a snake".

# ? Sep 17, 2013 08:57

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

I found it amusing that activating the Gumball Guardians was essentially the "coin on a string" trick.

Also, PB has a German accent when she's sleepy.

Also, possible seeds for the future:
- There's a highly radioactive river under the kingdom
- That amulet
- That tiger

# ? Sep 17, 2013 09:10

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

Steve Yun posted:

But we see two different souls. Finn is a soul, Shoko is a soul. They are talking to each other!

Nothing makes seeeennnnnsssseeee

Beings having one soul is by no means the norm in belief systems. Here is an interesting jumping-off point article.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 09:15

Mazed: Oct 23, 2010

Holy poo poo. I love this show so goddamn much. :stare:

So, I can't see any particular reason to bring Shoko back (and really, it says something about these writers that they can completely establish and conclude a character within a ten minute span), but the radioactive river and Bubblegum having her amulet back are game for plenty of development to come.

The biggest thing, though, is that this feels like the start of a new character arc for Finn, too. His relationship with Flame Princess has been "resolved" for the time being (though hopefully we haven't seen the last of her), and the revelation at the end of The Vault makes it seem like he sees PB in a much different light now, too. Moreover, he's just been fed a taste of Ooo's real history. No way that doesn't pull at his curiosity.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 10:14

ConanThe3rd: Mar 27, 2009

Say Nothing posted:

Not a frigging clue, definitely over 40. Only Marceline or Ice King would know for sure.

I'm surprised how well Finn takes that in his stride.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 10:18

Zeruel: Mar 27, 2010; Alert: bad post spotted.

Say Nothing posted:

Shoko is a Japanese name. And PB looks like she was a warrior-woman before building the candy kingdom.
Trying to guess PB's real (at least minimum) age, the candy kingdom was complete 15 years ago when she found baby Flame Princess wandering and PB was an adult, so no definite clues there, and The tree fort was a sapling when Shoko died. Weeping Willows grow fast, up to ten feet a year, but only live 40 to 75 years, so Shoko probably died at no more than 40-75 years ago.

....

Not a frigging clue, definitely over 40. Only Marceline or Ice King would know for sure.

The ol' radioactive playing card.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 10:21

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

Candy Kingdom now and then.

drat, that tree in PB's bedroom got big.

Bubblegum, Warrior Princess.

Tree Fort. I guess the root just grew over Shoko.

Say Nothing fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 10:22

Gangringo: Jul 22, 2007; In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one sat.

He chose the path of perpetual contentment.

Steve Yun posted:

But we see two different souls. Finn is a soul, Shoko is a soul. They are talking to each other!

Nothing makes seeeennnnnsssseeee

Going back to this I wouldn't necessarily say she's even a ghost, more like a subconscious echo from a past life. The episode overtly switches from Finn's perspective to PB's when they're looking in the hole. Finn sees the "ghost" and later a smiling Shoko and PB sees a skeleton. The painting could easily be painted by another reincarnation of Shoko that she tried to reach out to.

Edit: Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the name and design of the bath boy gang?

Gangringo fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:18

Red Bones: Aug 9, 2012; "I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."

If Finn's past life was hanging out in an earlier era of Ooo, I suppose that means that Finn must've been born after the Mushroom War and he isn't a baby that was preserved in a time capsule or something.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:24

scary ghost dog: Aug 5, 2007

So the Candy Kingdom is built on ground zero of a nuke attack?

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:25

Roland Jones: Aug 18, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

scary ghost dog posted:

So the Candy Kingdom is built on ground zero of a nuke attack?

Or downriver from one.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:44

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

scary ghost dog posted:

So the Candy Kingdom is built on ground zero of a nuke attack?

Ooo seems like its 90% ground zero of nuke attacks.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:49

Say Nothing: Mar 5, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

The Creeps.

Finn The Human.

The Vault.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:52

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

This episode was just amazingly fun. I also really liked seeing Ooo's more recent history. It seems at this point most people are closer to tribes than full on kingdoms...which makes perfect sense, history wise.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:53

Calico Heart: Mar 22, 2012; "wich the worst part was what troll face did to sonic's corpse after words wich was rape it. at that point i looked away"

Well that was way more interesting than it being Finn's mom.

Red Crown posted:

Remember in the murder mystery episode that nobody but Finn could see the Green Ghost and none of them had any idea what he was on about. It makes sense to me that the Green Ghost appears to him because his past self has such a strong desire to return PB's amulet. I also dig that Shoko clearly has a different alignment, she's an entirely different person from Finn but he doesn't freak out about it.

This show has tons of positive messages. It's the cartoon I wish I had when I was a kid

At the end of the episode, Finn see's the green ghost and normal Shoko, but it also cuts to just show a Shoko skeleton. I think it's fair to say that only Finn could see Shoko. Maybe it was the memories of the past live asserting themselves? Or a regret that the reincarnation just encoded in Finn's DNA?

Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 12:03

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Gromit posted:

You mean "a snake".

You're right it is a snake. It looked like it had ears.

Say Nothing posted:

Tree Fort. I guess the root just grew over Shoko.

Also it looks like the Ice Kingdom didn't exist at that point. Looks like they were just regular mountains at first. Ice King must have moved in more recently

# ? Sep 17, 2013 12:23

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I think we can probably just file it under "weird reincarnation past life echo stuff" and move on. Nothing weird about DNA or multiple ghost souls necessary, it just is what it is :shobon:

# ? Sep 17, 2013 12:31

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:08

Calico Heart: Mar 22, 2012; "wich the worst part was what troll face did to sonic's corpse after words wich was rape it. at that point i looked away"

Also it's hella cute Finn was a butterfly.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 13:25

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