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lokipunk posted:Thanks for the advice! I plan to wait for doms4 to come out on steam (and funds have been a bit tight this month) before picking it up. One thing I am not getting is magic item crafting. Spells and stuff are starting to make some sense but the magic items system is just something else I need to jump headfirst into wikis for. Look at this incredibly well-written LP that discusses just such a topic (among many others, including how great the fat guy from lost really is SO GREAT!!!). http://lparchive.org/Dominions-3-(by-Lilli-et-al)/
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Sep 18, 2013 02:38
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builds character posted:Look at this incredibly well-written LP that discusses just such a topic (among many others, including how great the fat guy from lost really is SO GREAT!!!). Auto url tags evidently don't like parentheses 
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Sep 18, 2013 02:44
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builds character posted:Look at this incredibly well-written LP that discusses just such a topic (among many others, including how great the fat guy from lost really is SO GREAT!!!). Fixed that so people could actually click the link.
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Sep 18, 2013 04:04
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I think, with addition of Thrones, we might actually get a Dom4 LP that isn't Doomed to Fail.
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Sep 18, 2013 04:08
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How are u posted:I think, with addition of Thrones, we might actually get a Dom4 LP that isn't Doomed to Fail. The UI improvements will do more for LPs than Thrones will - but they will definitely help.
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Sep 18, 2013 04:14
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jBrereton posted:plus summonable Hinnomite Melqarts at Blood 6. Melquart with Air access!
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Sep 18, 2013 06:02
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Ok, the obvious answer to this question is going to be 'play the game more rear end in a top hat' but I wanted to see if an idea is too overpowered. The premise for the nation is it is an Air nation with a little fire and astral. It is also similar to LA/MA Ermor in the sense that is summons it's commanders are summoned and you do not recruit your chaff/units. You do get your chaff for free, but you have to summon it, either through a commander who can summon or an item similar to the devil summoning contracts. You get less, but they are better quality and can fly. The nation also doesn't Dom-kill. Now here is the part that I can't decide is overpowered or not. Since Caelum is already the nation of powerful air mages who fly (at least in EA, they get worse as time goes on), I don't want to tread on their feet. Instead I was looking at mages with 3 air base and a chance of 4 10% of the time and give them something else. This is an either or scenario. 1. Their expensive mages (30 gems to summon) all come into battle with auto-storm similar to the staff and all of their commanders and chaff can fly in storms. 2. They have an expensive commander (between 20 and 30 gems to summon) doubles as a gemgem (generates 1 air gem a turn). I prefer people to objects for gemgems as you can rescue the items if you know your castle is going to get stormed but your commanders are stuck there.
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Sep 18, 2013 06:17
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Lord Windy posted:2. They have an expensive commander (between 20 and 30 gems to summon) doubles as a gemgem (generates 1 air gem a turn). I prefer people to objects for gemgems as you can rescue the items if you know your castle is going to get stormed but your commanders are stuck there. Well you could evaquate the mages too (if they are A2+ mages)
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Sep 18, 2013 07:40
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I wasn't planning on giving them any paths. I wasn't even planning on giving them fly so they can't just flutter away.
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Sep 18, 2013 07:53
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Lord Windy posted:Ok, the obvious answer to this question is going to be 'play the game more rear end in a top hat' but I wanted to see if an idea is too overpowered. Gemgens are very tricky to balance, and I think Dom4 did a wise thing in mainly confining it to free gems in battle. Option 1 effectively does that by giving you a free cast of Storm, cutting down on your gem expenditure, without allowing for that thing where a nation spirals totally out of control past a certain point. Anyone who hasn't read that LP by Lilli et al should, it got me so intrigued about Dominions that I bought it despite it being extremely expensive at the time. Doubt I'm the only one, either. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 08:14
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Lord Windy posted:I wasn't planning on giving them any paths. I wasn't even planning on giving them fly so they can't just flutter away. Then I dont like them --> because of the way they clutter the "n" shortkey up. At least give them Research (not influenced by magic scales maybe?) 1.
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Sep 18, 2013 10:12
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I don't think I'll go the Gem-Gem path. I'll give some later summons/heroes the temporary gems instead. So I'll give them Storm Immune, flying and some commanders that auto-cast storm. Their mages also won't be slow to recruit. To compensate for that advantage they won't have great magic access and need gems to get their mages. I'm thinking max 4 air, 3 astral and 2 fire.
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Sep 18, 2013 11:09
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Lord Windy posted:I don't think I'll go the Gem-Gem path. I'll give some later summons/heroes the temporary gems instead. Those are some pretty nice paths if it's MA. Even in EA, I'd be extremely chipper to get an A4 mage which wasn't StR.
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Sep 18, 2013 12:20
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Either EA or MA. If I like doing this enough, I might do a set of 3 era for the guys. It was also going to be A3 with a chance of A4, the free storm means it can get up to A4 without any issue anyway.
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Sep 18, 2013 12:30
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You'll need to about double the price of the mages vs normal to compensate for not having to spend gold on troops.
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Sep 18, 2013 12:45
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Lord Windy posted:Either EA or MA. If I like doing this enough, I might do a set of 3 era for the guys. Summon Storm Power is only 150RPs in. Storm, at Evo 5? Bit more pricey.
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Sep 18, 2013 12:48
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What race are they btw?
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Sep 18, 2013 14:47
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I bought Dominions 3 several years ago from Shrapnel, and it looks like my 'download period' with them has expired (haha okay) and that you can't activate their keys on Steam which is really unfortunate. I suppose if I wanted to get back into this game I should just wait for Dominions 4 to be released and buy that instead though eh, so that's what I'll do. The Let's Play threads for Dominions 3 were absolutely what got me interested in this game in the first place (I know everyone says this), and watching a few people stream their recent Dom 4 blitz games on Twitch has been quite interesting too, so I hope people keep doing them! 
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Sep 18, 2013 15:14
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Mu. posted:I bought Dominions 3 several years ago from Shrapnel, and it looks like my 'download period' with them has expired (haha okay) and that you can't activate their keys on Steam which is really unfortunate. I suppose if I wanted to get back into this game I should just wait for Dominions 4 to be released and buy that instead though eh, so that's what I'll do. You can buy Dom4 on Desura right now, I think it's one of these open beta thingies.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:24
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amuayse posted:What race are they btw?
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Sep 18, 2013 15:35
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Mu. posted:I bought Dominions 3 several years ago from Shrapnel, and it looks like my 'download period' with them has expired (haha okay) and that you can't activate their keys on Steam which is really unfortunate. I suppose if I wanted to get back into this game I should just wait for Dominions 4 to be released and buy that instead though eh, so that's what I'll do. You can just download dom3 from some shady Russian site and then use your valid key and it will work just fine. But yeah, you should just buy dom4 because nobody is going to play dom3 anymore.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:37
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Will people who buy Dom4 on Desura get a Steam key if it is eventually released there? I know the OP says that Desura keys work on Steam, but I'm not sure if that was referring to Dom3 only, or all Desura games. Thanks. Now I just have to psych myself up to try something so complex. \/\/ Quixzlizx fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 16:20
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From the horse's mouth.
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Sep 18, 2013 16:37
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tooterfish posted:From the horse's mouth. Welp in that case I guess I'll be buying it on Desura when I get home. No reason to wait, particularly if the key will be transferable.
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Sep 18, 2013 16:41
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I keep wondering: Is Atlantis the "good" underwater faction?
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Sep 18, 2013 17:30
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amuayse posted:I keep wondering: Is Atlantis the "good" underwater faction? It depends what you want from a UW faction. Atlantis is the UW faction most able to easily get on land, while ocenana will crush any underwater opposition but has a very hard time doing anything outside the water. R'leyth is in the middle with a bit of mind control added, and a horrendous MA ermor type system in the LA when they drive everyone crazy.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:34
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amuayse posted:I keep wondering: Is Atlantis the "good" underwater faction? I don't think anyone is "good" in dominions. It's a game of permanent holy war. If you are talking about from a gameplay perspective, Atlantis gets murdered by other UW nations by default. Low MR allows R'lyeh to roll over them and Oceania rolls over them because that's what Oceania does to all other UW nations. They are really good at getting on land assuming they don't get murdered by other UW nations though.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:35
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It's certainly not the bad one. You could argue the Pelagia are the 'good guys', maybe Oceania. It's easy to id the evil factions in the game, but the good guys are harder to highlight.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:36
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Speleothing posted:It's certainly not the bad one. You could argue the Pelagia are the 'good guys', maybe Oceania. It's easy to id the evil factions in the game, but the good guys are harder to highlight. Though I don't have a unit list, Pelagia is triton focused like EA Oceania right? Does this mean there is yet another UW nation that can murder Atlantis? EDIT: If they get something even vaguely comparable to Knights of the Deep, that's would clinch it. Did they bother adding something that is the equivalent of a massed air breathing magic item, or are aquatic nations still kinda screwed for getting on land? Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 17:40
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It really comes down to the map. If you're the only underwater faction or there's some divided ocean thing going on, then Atlantis is the bomb. If not, you're going to need a really stompy Pretender to keep Oceania from rushing you in the first few turns of the game...and then pray that Oceania went with a Rainbow, because if he's equally stompy, you're hosed.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:40
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EA Atlantis hurts to play because "lol wut's armor". They're sorta the bad guys in the beginning because Oceania's all nice and pretty, but they become the good guys in LA because they're the only ones willing to beat back R'lyeh. Speaking of EA R'lyeh, the Illwinter guys says they'll try and improve them. Anyways, we all know that the "main character" of the series is Ermor.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:44
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jng2058 posted:It really comes down to the map. If you're the only underwater faction or there's some divided ocean thing going on, then Atlantis is the bomb. If not, you're going to need a really stompy Pretender to keep Oceania from rushing you in the first few turns of the game...and then pray that Oceania went with a Rainbow, because if he's equally stompy, you're hosed. They are almost certainly going to go for blessed Knights of the Deeps if there are other UW factions and those fuckers obliterate other UW units pretty easily (or at least they did in 3) with a couple of minor blesses that you can fit on a rainbow. You need a divided ocean to live or a long distance between you and them to have a chance. You will never get enough research to stop them with something like a Kraken before they are sitting on your cap if they are even remotely close. Though you might be able to get enough research to gently caress them up by the time they knock down the walls, you are still screwed. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 17:49
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What I wonder the most is why would you ever want to buy a shambler? Sure, they have decent hitpoints and strength but 1. They're naked and 2. They're expensive. It even says in their description they don't really want to fight that much so they're essentially insulting you by going into battle completely nude. And it says that Atlantean hierarchy is based on size and age. 
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Sep 18, 2013 18:18
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amuayse posted:EA Atlantis hurts to play because "lol wut's armor". Very decent set of mages and priests, handily bitey set of Shambler units to really lay the hurt into any other factions, and plenty of magic/poisonous weapons. MA Atlantis: loving garbage, though. On Pelagia: very decent underwater triton troops with up to 3 attacks, and their ambibious soldiers are actually pretty good. They get, in effect, underwater cavalry, but they aren't sacred (their sacreds are their Pearl Guards, basically triton phalanx types). In the base game, Oceania is lumbered with a totally worthless Kelp Palisade as its 'home fort', so that might go some way to reducing their power. They also still can't really expand on land, although that's been somewhat reduced by the addition of Icthytaurs (ambibious minotaurs). UW factions are still pretty much gubbed in terms of a mass air breathing item, which makes playing Dreamlands very, very grating past a certain point. amuayse posted:What I wonder the most is why would you ever want to buy a shambler? jBrereton fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 18:27
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Double post because this forum isn't Desura, whoops.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:30
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jBrereton posted:Mmmmm. I actually really like EA Atlantis. Low MR for maximum mind blast vulnerability hurts really bad against R'lyeh. Mind blasters scripted to target monsters plus a lobo swarm will leave a shambler heavy army as sitting ducks. Low def/prot makes expansion costly and painful. Their higher prot units suffer from being very res intensive and having high encumbrance. Thus, people will typically pick some kind of SC pretender like a dom10 Kraken with E to expand with and research alteration for buffs. Until they have those buffs they will get wrecked by what are essentially blessable knights with recuperation, a built in magic weapon the nastiest lance charge around. Even with the buffs, you better bring a chaff screen as 30AP+lance (not a light lance!) can kill an invuln buffed Kraken. The only thing I've ever successfully stopped blessed knights with were massed deep ones to eat lances and give a valuable 6 attacks per square in order to bypass defense, plus a Kraken. And that was because the other guy only went with a light bless. Had he bumped his bless up higher instead of going for an S heavy pretender for the late game, I would have lost. Had he gone with something silly like W9/E4 it wouldn't have even been a contest. That said, EA Atlantis is super fun if you manage to survive the early game. Basalt Kings are hardcore.
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Sep 18, 2013 19:11
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To be fair, I've only ever really messed about with them; due to largely playing AI, not had to deal with the MR issues too much, but now you point it out, it certainly is A Thing.
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Sep 18, 2013 19:38
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jBrereton posted:Mmmmm. I actually really like EA Atlantis. I can't in good conscience recommend Triton Riders when Oceania gets Ictycentaurs for 2/3 the price aka the best underwater recruit in the game. Shark Tribe Tritons are nice, but they won't carry an underwater war. Other than them all the tritons are worthless, including the Pearl Guard. Ictycentaurs on the other hand are good enough to carry a land war sometimes. Overall I'd give the Early Age troop lineup to Oceania with Pelagia troops getting the "worthless" monkier. Dreamlands is pretty good as a disciple since you can just play them like MA R'lyeh. Knights of the Deeps are now a MA unit, so anyone going on about blessed knights is in the wrong age.
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Sep 18, 2013 19:41
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TheDemon posted:I can't in good conscience recommend Triton Riders when Oceania gets Ictycentaurs for 2/3 the price aka the best underwater recruit in the game. Also yeah, I guess non-Dreamlands Dreamlands R'lyeh is just MA R'lyeh with a few different national heroes? Not dipped my toes into the Disciple game waters yet.
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Sep 18, 2013 19:54
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amuayse posted:What I wonder the most is why would you ever want to buy a shambler? Early Era opinion: I would never -plan- a strategy around buying shamblers, but they can and will help in a pinch. Even though they're naked, they have 7/9 protection, which helps a lot (light infantry in leather has 5 protection, for comparison). I wouldn't pit them against a professional army, but they punch way above their resource cost in taking on indies and point defense (and all low levels of PD is now indie) in the early age. Size 3 limits them to only 2/square, which reduces the advantage of their extra health and attack a bit, but they still come out ahead. Tossing a small handful into your expansion forces can help you push outward a little sooner then just relying on Atlantian Infantry or Reef Dwellers alone. Make sure they don't get stuck behind your regular infantry, and they'll die off, which is good. You'll free up the upkeep for your mages (not like you have cost-effective researchers), gain tax income, and get additional resources for your capitol. Buffing Shamblers with spells isn't particularly viable given your expensive and mostly non-sacred mages. If you had some weaker and cheaper sacred mages I could see using some of the low level buffs, but you can't really spam AOE1 effectively especially given size 3. The only spell that stands out to me early on is Strength of Giants at Enchant 3, with squad-based targeting. There are some fantastic high level buffs, but by the time you reach those you should have already lost or won the seas. Wave Warriors (I think this is new to Dom4?) is an interesting spell that unlocks at Alteration 6, but you'll have trouble affording the researchers to get there, and it won't help you against R'lyeh. Army of Lead would, but that's alteration 9. Similarly, Iron Bane and Destruction are more helpful on the physical side of things. You'll generally get better mileage using your mages offensively. Even if you eliminate their weaknesses, Shamblers don't have the attack or defense scores to really shine. In the early age, a shambler indie province is almost the only aquatic indie that can go up on land while not being crappy militia, or requiring resources you just don't have available without building a castle first. If you're expanding quickly with a SC (and I think it might be required for Atlantis), then they can help you pick off a land territory or two if you can do so w/o ticking off a human opponent. So yeah, I generally only use Shamblers in the initial push. They punch well above their resource cost, and I'd reckon unscientifically that against land-based indies and PD (poison is too common among underwater independents), two of them are worth about four regular infantry, with about a third more health per square, a third more attacks per square, plus a bit of additional damage. I almost never field more than a supplementary squad of ten, and stop bringing them out when my frontlines stall/castles can afford reef dwellers. If you're not expanding, you're not making your money back, and yes, you're much better off with Reef Dwellers and with supporting War Shambler/Warriors of the Deep, bringing out the Coral Guards when I've got the time to build up beforehand. Before then, they actually don't die as fast as you'd expect a naked 1 resource unit to die, and you will have the opportunity to get your money's worth if you focus on using them against land provinces. P.S. Shambler Chiefs are nearly useless, but I often have Coral Commanders lead from the front if I have them (which is fairly often, given how I can't always afford the mages). LordSloth fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 21:34
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