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Yeah, FIFA is huge in Europe but still decently large in North America. Are those numbers for the whole world or specific to region? FIFA 14 is coming out next week so it's likely the numbers are weakened by fans not wanting to wait several months to get their fix. It's honestly more surprising to even see Destiny and Titanfall on that list since Titanfall probably won't be out until March or April at the earliest (maybe March if EA is pushing to have it out before the end of their fiscal year) and who the gently caress knows when Destiny will be out (currently flagged as Q2/Q3 of 2014). e: Oh, if it's vgchartz then gently caress. Why does that site even exist? It's like the Conservapedia of video game numbers, "This page proudly free of citations!" Zellyn fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 20:20
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It was from VG Chartz (yeah, best I could find...) via IGN for the US only up thru the end of August http://www.ign.com/blogs/koojopanda/2013/08/29/ps4-decimating-the-xbox-one-in-the-us-nearly-double-the-preorder-numbers
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Sep 19, 2013 20:25
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Astro7x posted:Anyways... I guess my point of my post was that I am just skeptical of it meeting those expectations for March 2014 when all the top next gen games based on pre-order estimates are all going to be available for the PS3/360 too. ...Is that chart from VGchartz, out of curiosity? EDIT: Yeah see, no, dude. Just...give up on using them. For anything. They're only remotely accurate well AFTER official numbers become openly available, anything else is practically made up from "intelligent" guesses based on information they manage to find. As far as shortages are concerned, Sony had been alerting retailers when to stop taking preorders, and they sound extremely confident in their console yields based on recent information given to the press. Perhaps the demand isn't gonna be there, but it does sound like Sony is ready to fill the shelves with as many consoles as will be needed throughout the rest of this year. I'm not certain the same could be said about the Xbone, they didn't finalize the hardware until pretty recently, so they're probably behind on production at this point.
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Sep 19, 2013 20:26
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I'm aware they are not reliable, but there are no other indications out there as to what games people are pre-ordering.
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Sep 19, 2013 20:48
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Astro7x posted:I'm aware they are not reliable, but there are no other indications out there as to what games people are pre-ordering. Look at Amazon lists. At least that has something backing it up. This is literally made-up bullshit.
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Sep 19, 2013 20:49
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Astro7x posted:Sony has said that their pre-orders are up to 1 million, but who knows how many of those pre-orders will be fulfilled at launch. 1 million preordered as of mid-August, probably not including Japan since that was before they had a launch date. 2.5m for worldwide is entirely possible. Even if it doesn't hit that, 5m for the 6 month launch window is really not unreasonable, for a worldwide launch. As other sites have pointed out, that's only 40% more than the PS3 managed in the same period. You've got to remember that the Wii U barely moving 50k units a month worlwide this early in it's lifespan is an outlier.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:45
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WeaponBoy posted:e: Oh, if it's vgchartz then gently caress. Why does that site even exist? It's like the Conservapedia of video game numbers, "This page proudly free of citations!" The NPD is so restrictive with its numbers that even big publishers use VGChartz numbers for its ease of use. For example, Square-Enix used VGChartz numbers for the number of consoles sold on slide #7 on this financial statement. Presentations on GDC and other big events used VGChartz in the past because the NPD is so difficult to work with.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:59
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Sunning posted:The NPD is so restrictive with its numbers that even big publishers use VGChartz numbers for its ease of use. For example, Square-Enix used VGChartz numbers for the number of consoles sold on slide #7 on this financial statement. Presentations on GDC and other big events used VGChartz in the past because the NPD is so difficult to work with. The fact that half the people that owned a PS2 bought FFX is pretty insane.
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Sep 19, 2013 22:15
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Edmund Honda posted:1 million preordered as of mid-August, probably not including Japan since that was before they had a launch date. 2.5m for worldwide is entirely possible. Even if it doesn't hit that, 5m for the 6 month launch window is really not unreasonable, for a worldwide launch. As other sites have pointed out, that's only 40% more than the PS3 managed in the same period. I'm not even comparing it to Wii U. Nintendos fiscal year estimate is even more mind boggling to me.
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Sep 20, 2013 00:16
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Barudak posted:Its not a launch title. Its slated to come out in Q1 or later of 2014. The fact that it has this many pre-orders this early is bit of a positive. Wow, eleven people pre-ordered Titanfall?
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Sep 20, 2013 00:42
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Sunning posted:The NPD is so restrictive with its numbers that even big publishers use VGChartz numbers for its ease of use. For example, Square-Enix used VGChartz numbers for the number of consoles sold on slide #7 on this financial statement. Presentations on GDC and other big events used VGChartz in the past because the NPD is so difficult to work with. Why is it that they do that? Sales numbers for everything else I can think of is pretty much out there in the open. I don't understand.
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Sep 20, 2013 01:56
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Bobnumerotres posted:Why is it that they do that? Sales numbers for everything else I can think of is pretty much out there in the open. I don't understand. Because it makes them money to do it that way. It's just that simple.
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Sep 20, 2013 02:02
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Bobnumerotres posted:Why is it that they do that? Sales numbers for everything else I can think of is pretty much out there in the open. I don't understand. Because the video game industry is insanely protective of data like almost no other industry. It's not just the NPD, Valve is also insanely protective of their data which is something a lot of people would really, really like to see. Mostly we just end up with companies coming out and crowing about hitting some X million sales mark with no real context.
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Sep 20, 2013 02:03
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Some of the historical info on sales that Nintendo puts out there is kind of neat http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/hard_soft/index.html They have a lot of old stuff easily accessible, including annual reports back from 2002 Edit: Since we were talking about Nintendo Directs earlier, this is kind of interesting about where they are getting their views from. So as to why they didn't pre-announce a Nintendo Direct? Because the majority of their views are coming from the eShop and not live web streams. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130425/03.html#slide28 quote:Also, we are starting to gain confidence that the Nintendo eShop is beginning to play a very important role as one of the common ways to view Nintendo Direct, which is gaining ground as Nintendo’s direct communication tool with our consumers. This seems particularly true for the generation of consumers who do not own their own PCs or smart devices, and it appears that the Nintendo eShop is becoming a very important place where they can access information about a variety of games at their convenience. And then another quote on advertising since we've been discussing that recently too. Sounds like the plan is to do more TV spots around Christmas. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130430qa/02.html quote:Q6 Astro7x fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 03:44
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WeaponBoy posted:Because the video game industry is insanely protective of data like almost no other industry. It's not just the NPD, Valve is also insanely protective of their data which is something a lot of people would really, really like to see. Mostly we just end up with companies coming out and crowing about hitting some X million sales mark with no real context. It isn't just data, it's everything. Good luck finding budget information on games. It's really rare to find out anything but generalization. Everyone agrees that the cost of AAA gaming is high but nobody can specify what "high" means and we can only extrapolate from certain factors. Grand Theft Auto V was a $115 million dollar game with a $150 million dollar advertising budget and is being called the most expensive ever made. Nobody wants that info out there because it isn't cooked in their favor. (Movie studios do that, for example. Budgets are almost always higher than listed.) You only want that out there if it benefits you in some way or if there's no other choice.
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Sep 20, 2013 05:28
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Nintendo gimmicks have always smacked of throwing poo poo at a wall, at least to me. The wii was a huge success but they never seemed to really understand why or capitalize on it. The success of the DS has more to do with lack of real competition, plus it's not a huge market to begin with, than with any innovation on Nintendo's part. I think the market has gotten too big for them, to be honest. People act as if they're major players of the industry or one of the big three, but they haven't been able to compete directly with Sony and MS in a long time. I have to question their ability to actually perform at that level, because best I can tell they have no idea what they're doing. MS and Sony have huge reserves to take the fall for their stupid decisions, but Nintendo doesn't, and appears to be even less competent than them. Compare with a company like Apple, which had / has a fairly similar position in the market, but made truckloads of money and turned into a 900 pound market gorilla because they were simply really loving good at what they did. I think that the limping along thing they've been doing for 10 years now is going to come to an end sooner rather than later. Whether that means a shakeup of leadership and miraculous revival or crash and burn, I can't say. In any case I think things are going to change drastically from the ~2000-2010 status quo. How long till they run out of the pile of money they made off the Wii? icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 07:37
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icantfindaname posted:MS and Sony have huge reserves to take the fall for their stupid decisions, but Nintendo doesn't, I recall we talked about Nintendo's "war chest" earlier (or it might have been in the other Wii U thread), but they have something like $4 billion in the bank. They're not in any trouble financially.
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Sep 20, 2013 07:46
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True, but they're going to have to basically rebuild their company from the ground up to become competitive again. They have no idea how to market, they have no idea how to do online, they have no idea how to make games other than clones of the same soulless platformer and rereleases of old games, and the WiiU is flatlining not a year after release, even after big price cuts. $4 billion is a lot of money, but these are some massive, massive problems and fixing them will take a big chunk of it. I don't think they're in danger of collapsing in the near future, but you can't point to the Wii money and say they're fine.
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Sep 20, 2013 08:11
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Going "they don't know how to make any game but Mario platformers and re-releases" is a bit disingenuous considering it's demonstrably not true.. Not every game they publish is a gigantic seller but they've put out a lot of well-received games and a lot of big selling games that have nothing to do with Mario platformers. Even if we're just discussing how Nintendo needs to restructure, that particular one is pretty groundless. They do need to figure out their place in the modern market but the entire reason they actually need to do that instead of just fading away is because their games are well-received and marketable enough that it's actually worthwhile for them to do so. Even the soulless platformers sell more than 90% of the games on the market. Nintendo is still an incredibly powerful games manufacturer by any metric. It is the fact that they're now a weak console manufacturer that is biting them in the rear end. If they want to fix their problems they need to either figure out how to carve a niche in the market or how to exit the console development space while keeping their IPs in production. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 08:28
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icantfindaname posted:they have no idea how to make games other than clones of the same soulless platformer and rereleases of old games, This is the one critique I've never really understood about Nintendo. Sure, you can get upset that after 20-some odd years mario is still the same it's always been but that's like getting mad that Sesame Street still caters to kids. Stan Lee once said something fairly profound about comics and I think it applies to video games as well: "Every comic book is someone's first comic book" Do I think Mario and Zelda are so played out by this point that I don't even give a poo poo that they're releasing another one? Yep. Is there some 6 yr old out there right now having his mind BLOWN by just how fun NSBWU is since it's his first game ever? You bet your rear end. And I think we're all so quick to criticize Nintendo that we forget about that. Back when they were making the Wii, someone at Nintendo (Iwata?) said that they're not trying to compete with the 360 or the PS3. At the time I didn't get it but now I do. It's that they weren't trying to make a console for "Gamers" they were making a console for someone who's never played video games before. And it worked. Super Mario Bros on the NES was the first game I ever played. And for the last 20-some odd years, there's been a kid who's first game was "Super Mario" is some form or another. And that's loving magical.
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Sep 20, 2013 09:03
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Trollologist posted:This is the one critique I've never really understood about Nintendo. Sure, you can get upset that after 20-some odd years mario is still the same it's always been but that's like getting mad that Sesame Street still caters to kids. Well, there's something to be said about that. For a good number of Nintendo games, they fit both marks. They're both someone's first game and a unique, interesting and accessible experience. With NSMB, they've stopped being unique. They're rather specifically catering to the people who are familiar with one type of game and completely unwilling to try another. I can give Pokemon, or Animal Crossing, or Luigi's Mansion or even niche poo poo like Fire Emblem to someone and it is simultaneously accessible to them as a newcomer and its own experience even if it is a sequel to a previous game. It may have artistic differences or gameplay differences or new features or something but it really stands out as its own thing. NSMB really doesn't. It didn't even in the first game. It's intentionally safe, intentionally dull in art design, intentionally mimicking old games aside from one or two new power ups. The reasoning is obvious: The classic Mario-style gameplay sells better than any other experimentation they've done with the franchise, including the beloved Galaxy games. It's safe. It's comfortable. People buy it. But it is impossible to deny it has become stagnate. They're intentionally retreading safe ground and avoiding changing too much to avoid driving away the fanbase who only want the stagnated stuff. The problem is that they're not offering the experimental stuff anymore either. Super Mario 3D Land is the closest and that was (by Nintendo's own admission) an attempt to get the "New" crowd to branch out a bit. Mario has kind of run into the Mickey Mouse problem where he's not really allowed to be weird despite being an innately weird character at heart. Except that Mario thrives on weirdness. Every single iconic and memorable thing about Mario is the result of weirdness, but lately they've become afraid to be weird with him. (At least in the mainline games.) Despite the fact that he's basically Adventure Time before Adventure Time was a thing, they're being very conservative and safe with him, probably out of fear of driving people away. Except there's only so much you can do with Mario without being weird. He's a loving Italian plumber who rides a dinosaur through a mushroom-themed kingdom to save a princess from a giant spiked dragon-turtle. He needs to be weird. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 09:10
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Yes that's my point exactly. I was a little harsh on them but it's not that their games are bad artistically or unfun, just that they're uninspiring. They need system sellers. If they're either unwilling or unable to compete with Sony and MS, then they have to make their own system sellers, and enough of them to keep a system afloat, but they haven't done that in close to 10 years. The Gamecube got SSBM, Pikmin 1 and 2, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, Mario Sunshine, The Wind Waker, plus actual 3rd party system sellers on top of that like RE4, Eternal Darkness, etc. Since then we've gotten what exactly? Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, maybe Zelda, maybe SSBB, no big third party titles. That's not even approaching enough to stay afloat without the magic money machine that was Wii Sports. Also you're delusional if you think today's That was a little ranty, but TLDR yes Nintendo's game output is a significant problem. That doesn't mean that Nintendo are making bad games or are incapable of making good games, just that they aren't making good games in nearly the quantity they need to be given their 10 year long refusal to compete with MS and Sony. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 09:53
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icantfindaname posted:Also you're delusional if you think today's No, I'm just not forgetting that Nintendo also has a handheld system which does extremely well with younger children. The console market has weakened for them for certain but the handheld market has kept their IPs meaningful to children. This isn't a long-term sustainable thing for them but they're not yet at the point of being meaningless to the current generation either. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 09:57
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icantfindaname posted:Secondly yes, Mario, or rather NSMB, is sterile as a jug of bleach at this point. The game wasn't particularly wonder-inspiring to begin with, and they've now republished it five times (yes I went and counted) and are about to publish it a sixth time. OK fine, your theortical kid is blown away by NSMB #3. What about numbers four, five and six? It's the same game, he's already played it. -NSMB -NSMB Wii -NSMB 2 -NSMB U 4 different platforms, 1 game each, and they're not ports either. What the hell are you counting as the fifth and sixth?
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Sep 20, 2013 10:02
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Supercar Gautier posted:-NSMB I assume he's counting Mario 3D Land and Mario 3D World considering he said the sixth is coming out soon. They're not remotely NSMB games but share art design and it isn't really worth getting bogged down in the details.
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Sep 20, 2013 10:03
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Trollologist posted:Is there some 6 yr old out there right now having his mind BLOWN by just how fun NSBWU is since it's his first game ever? No, because that would suggest people are buying WiiUs
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Sep 20, 2013 10:03
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Supercar Gautier posted:-NSMB NSMB NSMB 2 NSMB Wii NSMB U New Super Luigi U (They're selling it for $30, it counts as at least half a game) Mario 3D Land Mario 3D World (possibly) I realize you're going to insist 3D Land and World are totally different, and to be fair I haven't looked at World too much yet, but I've played Land and it's nearly as sterile as NSMB. The actual gameplay is different, yes, but a person's impressions of a game aren't based solely on that, and they're both platformers. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 10:12
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Well, see, even I would agree that the art style is getting annoyingly homogenized. But trying to imply that six different games are republishings of the same title because they share an art style... it's silly. The difference between the first NSMB game and NSMBU is about on par with the jump from SMB1 to SMB3, but nobody waves their hands to call those two NES titles the same game. And calling 3D Land a republished NSMB is just... what? A better argument might be that they need to experiment more with presentation, or come up with other IPs to apply to the games they're developing.
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Sep 20, 2013 10:18
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I don't think we're actually disagreeing here. Art style and presentation are very important, and Mario 3D World will be their 7th game with the same art style and presentation in as many years. The gameplay is similar enough for the average game consumer to roughly equate them. My point originally was more about the business side of things anyways. Basically if Nintendo wants to keep doing this countercyclical not competing against MS and Sony thing they have to do a lot better than they are. This is where my criticism of the games fits. Their games are alright, but alright isn't good enough when maybe one big game a year is literally all that's propping up their system. These games have to be loving incredible to get people to buy a system, and they aren't. I contrast this with the GC era, where you had games of comparable or better quality, and like twice as many of them. They want to have their cake and eat it too with regards to actually competing for mainstream gamers vs being their own walled off videogame empire. I think Nintendo is scared of competing with MS and Sony, and I don't know if it's because they can't or are just lazy. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 10:33
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I've bought a Wii U and a 3DS, I've loved Nintendo games for nearly all my life, and I still can't get excited about their new games, because they're just too safe and familiar. They don't really try anything new with the series, like they did in the SNES/N64 consoles. Each system only got one proper Mario game, but also got classics such as Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Party, Paper Mario and Super Smash Bros. Putting Mario in a story-driven, turn-based RPG or a fighting game was a big risk, but since those paid off, they haven't tried doing so with any other genres. They also tried new characters and art styles with their 2D platformers, and I'd definitely happier that they made Yoshi's Island rather than another level pack for Super Mario World.
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Sep 20, 2013 10:40
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They might also try not having 4 hours of tutorial in every single game, teaching you the wonders of moving a stick to move, a thing so basic I have seen 5 year olds master it in seconds.
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Sep 20, 2013 10:42
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:They might also try not having 4 hours of tutorial in every single game, teaching you the wonders of moving a stick to move, a thing so basic I have seen 5 year olds master it in seconds. Which is why the tutorials cover using the stick to move in about 5 seconds.
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Sep 20, 2013 10:48
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icantfindaname posted:They want to have their cake and eat it too with regards to actually competing for mainstream gamers vs being their own walled off videogame empire. Mainstream gaming like GTA5 might have sold on the Wii U, bit late for that now. AC3 and BLOps 2 didn't sell on the Wii U in any meaningful numbers though. edit: tie-in ratio for BLOps2 on the 360 in America was ~18%, on the Wii U was ~14%. Not terrible? Edmund Honda fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 11:12
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Tie in ratios are meaningless when you look at the difference in numbers of consoles sold. 18% of the number of 360 consoles is a lot. 14% of WiiU consoles is negligible in comparison.
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Sep 20, 2013 12:03
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ImpAtom posted:If they want to fix their problems they need to either figure out how to carve a niche in the market or how to exit the console development space while keeping their IPs in production. I think people over estimate what Nintendo needs to do to simply become profitable. The Wii era was booming, the system sold 100 million units and 872 million software titles. But the Gamecube era was a profitable one that sold as little as 21 million units and 208 million software titles. Granted they had the GBA back then, but they have the 3DS now too. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 13:30
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Nintendo's main goals at the moment are A) Not lose money B) Build good will with people who did by a WiiU by providing them software and features C) Keep their intellectual properties as relevant as they can so they can try again in a few years without people saying "What's a Nintendo?" All three of those are extremely doable. The DS line itself practically accomplishes A and C. They need to create some games so good that people say "Wow, too bad that's only on the WiiU, I wish this was on my system" for B. I'm already very happy with my WiiU personally, but they need to make sure people know what a WiiU is and would believe someone could be happy with it, even if they themselves don't buy it.
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Sep 20, 2013 14:09
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icantfindaname posted:I don't think we're actually disagreeing here. Art style and presentation are very important, and Mario 3D World will be their 7th game with the same art style and presentation in as many years. The gameplay is similar enough for the average game consumer to roughly equate them. But it really isn't. The New Super Mario Bros. series is a sidescrolling platformer. 3D World is a 3D platformer. Nintendo does a loving terrible job recently with names (and a terrible job at showing you how the games are distinctly different, which was part of your point) but they are not the same series. - New Super Mario Bros. (DS) - New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii) - New Super Mario Bros. 2 (3DS) - New Super Mario Bros. U (Wii U) Those games are the same. - Super Mario 3D Land (3DS) - Super Mario 3D World (Wii U) These games are a part of a different series. It's confusing as poo poo because Nintendo decided to have these games be distinct by "New" at the start when it's really a throwback game (It seriously should have been called Retro Mario Bros.) to 2D platforming but they are not the same games or from the same series. Nintendo desperately needs to hire a marketing firm and listen to them when it comes to naming their games and presenting them. I basically agree with you now that I re-read your post but yeah 
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Sep 20, 2013 14:30
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Bottom line is that Nintendo is now 90s-era Capcom, but less successful.
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Sep 20, 2013 14:31
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zenintrude posted:Bottom line is that Nintendo is now 90s-era Capcom, but less successful. How many Japanese companies have their poo poo together right now?
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Sep 20, 2013 14:36
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:How many Japanese companies have their poo poo together right now? Fromsoft, Platinum(although W101 sales aren't going to help), Sony... That all I got.
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Sep 20, 2013 14:38
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