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Well more appropriate philosophizing. Archwizard Hellflames the 3rd is more likely giving a soliloquy on the nature of gods and economics than Private Poopfarmer of the 523rd Company.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:10
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One of the conceits of Toll the Hounds is that Kruppe is doing the narrating. So of course there's a lot of long-winded philosophizing because that's how Kruppe rolls.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:57
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Levitate posted:Nah that only proves my point I think we just discovered pure evil. 
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Sep 19, 2013 22:09
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zokie posted:Errastas is pretty evil... FoD spoilers about magic. That last bit reminds me of an interesting revelation I had when reading this part in FoD (about how Azathanai have aspects that K'rul had managed to make available in some form to others). In, I think, MoI, Caladan Brood (whose aspect is earth/land)has a scene where he's describing his relationship to Burn, and he says something like, "I am her Warren." It struck me: he literally is. Fuckin' Erikson.
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Sep 20, 2013 02:24
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Magic stuff: Aren't dragons a key part of the Warrens too? I seem to remember that coming up a few times.
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Sep 20, 2013 05:06
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In bonehunters When cotillion talks to the chained dragons in shadow they tell him krul used them to shape his warrens
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Sep 20, 2013 08:55
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Ethiser posted:Magic stuff: Aren't dragons a key part of the Warrens too? I seem to remember that coming up a few times. The dragons involvement (FoD spoilers) is probably K'rul's next step, in an attempt to keep the warrens 'free'. Dragons show up at the end of FoD, so we'll probably see K'rul negotiate with them at some point.
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Sep 20, 2013 09:55
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I'm at the bit of The Crippled God where Quick Ben and Kalam come back and attack the Forkrul Assail and I'm wondering if it will be revealed exactly what/who Quick Ben and Ruthan Gudd are? If it is then I'll read on to find out as usual. I'm kind of disappointed Yedan Derryg died but everything during the lightfall was really good. The Snake definitely went on far too long for its pay off (so far) but maybe that was the whole point
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Sep 20, 2013 16:11
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We don't know who either of those guys ~really~ are yet but for what it's worth, Quick Ben supposedly has already shown up in Forge of Darkness.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:16
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The Ninth Layer posted:One of the conceits of Toll the Hounds is that Kruppe is doing the narrating. So of course there's a lot of long-winded philosophizing because that's how Kruppe rolls. I'm reading that now. Krupp starts talking and I start skimming. Same goes for when a character reminisces for the nth time about all the horrible poo poo they've gone through and how life doesn't really mean anything and they don't feel much anymore, yadda yadda yadda.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:24
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Well the nice thing is that you don't have to take Kruppe seriously. He doesn't mean half the things he says anyways.
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Sep 20, 2013 19:05
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I keep waiting for portent but Kruppe rarely delivers. On the other hand, Pusk's nonsense is entertaining if only for the reactions of other characters, and his reaction to their reaction.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:16
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The Ninth Layer posted:We don't know who either of those guys ~really~ are yet but for what it's worth, Quick Ben supposedly has already shown up in Forge of Darkness. I imagine that that is just one of his additional souls. We meet his sister and learn about his childhood in one of the books so we know the base Quick Ben is just a normal yet powerful human Mage. He just got lucky and was picked to hold the souls of other mages.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:05
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Kruppe is an awful character and reads like Erikson patting himself on the back. He was arguably interesting in GotM but is largely insufferable in every appearance thereafter. Bugg is basically Kruppe but not uninteresting and obnoxious. Then again, Erikson's characters are mostly terrible with a few exceptions. Fortunately the characters take a backseat to his incredible setting, which is so amazingly realized that even the talentless Esselmont can write entertaining novels in it. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 03:22
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Erikson's characters are mostly terrible with a few exceptions ERrOR ERRor ErROR Ethiser posted:I imagine that that is just one of his additional souls. We meet his sister and learn about his childhood in one of the books so we know the base Quick Ben is just a normal yet powerful human Mage. He just got lucky and was picked to hold the souls of other mages. Well, it's not out of the question that QB has some trace of Andii blood - not unlike Topper, but not nearly so direct, but yeah, the character(s) in FoD who bear some potential resemblance to QB are either soul(s) he ends up absorbing or, perhaps more likely, progenitors of those souls. It's also not necessarily luck - his bloodline is almost certainly responsible for his...advanced abilities in that aspect of magic, and the rest was part of his master plan. Habibi fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 06:02
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I thought that Quick Ben's original personality got dissolved when the souls got soulshifted into him. He's not necessarily the picture of sanity.
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Sep 21, 2013 06:17
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amuayse posted:I thought that Quick Ben's original personality got dissolved when the souls got soulshifted into him. He's not necessarily the picture of sanity. He pretty clearly remembers events from his childhood, is still attached to his biological sister, etc... I don't think there's anything hinting that his original personality dissolved. It is I am pretty sure hinted, however, that the other souls did have some effect on his personality.
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Sep 21, 2013 06:25
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I'm just wondering why that some of the more qualified members of the Bridgeburners (Whiskeyjack, Kalam, and QB) were still rather lowly soldiers than super high ranking Imperial agents. I guess the Empress just shrugged and sat back the whole time.
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Sep 21, 2013 19:37
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amuayse posted:I'm just wondering why that some of the more qualified members of the Bridgeburners (Whiskeyjack, Kalam, and QB) were still rather lowly soldiers than super high ranking Imperial agents. I guess the Empress just shrugged and sat back the whole time. Except that's wrong. Kalam was a high ranking claw agent, Whiskeyjack was one of the most senior military men in the empire, one of the heirs apparent before Surly seized the throne. He was bumped down to his lowly position to suppress his influence. Quick Ben is intentionally hiding, but has been an Imperial High Mage before. Even Hedge and Fiddler are considered THE sappers, the ones who do crazy poo poo with amazing results. They are all A listers.
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Sep 21, 2013 19:50
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I've tried to read Dust of Dreams twice, the last time being a year ago. I can't ever get through it but I've been really feeling like I want to try it again so I'm going to start tonight. I haven't looked at this thread since the last time I tried so has there been anything else that's come out since Crippled God?
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Sep 22, 2013 00:16
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Erikson came out with Forge of Darkness which is the first book in a prequel trilogy set in the heyday of the Tiste people, focusing around the city of Kharkanas. It's quite good, with that said I'd recommend finishing up Dust of Dreams and The Crippled God first.
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Sep 22, 2013 00:47
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I know that, I just thought it would've been more prudent for the Empress to you know, actually actively utilize their talents rather than just have them out of mind on the front lines. Well the Empress was never as smart as she wanted everyone to think she was so there's that.
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Sep 22, 2013 03:50
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Hmm I always got the impression that she didn't really want to kill off all her old guard friends but still had to look like she had control of the empire. Hence whenever some semi ascendant falls off a boat she is quick to say they died and never really look for a body. Either that or sending them to Genebackis to fight the Crimson Guard and Pale cabal was a death sentence and still good because she couldn't be directly accused of killing whiskeyjack and one arm which who were popular with the troops.
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Sep 22, 2013 04:07
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dishwasherlove posted:Hmm I always got the impression that she didn't really want to kill off all her old guard friends but still had to look like she had control of the empire. Hence whenever some semi ascendant falls off a boat she is quick to say they died and never really look for a body. Either that or sending them to Genebackis to fight the Crimson Guard and Pale cabal was a death sentence and still good because she couldn't be directly accused of killing whiskeyjack and one arm which who were popular with the troops. The plan was more or less to set Dujek and Whiskeyjack in position to take on the growing threat of the Pamion Seer, "outlawing" them so it'd be easier for them to make an alliance with Rake and Brood against a common enemey once they subdued Darujhistan and the rest of the Free Cities. Tayschrem hosed it up along the way by being olverloyal to Lasseen to the point of paranoia about Whiskeyjack and the Bridgeburners. Of course, getting the Bridgeburners and Onearm's Host to Genabackis is also convenient for Lasseen in that it gets some of her bigger rivals to the throne off on another continent. Lasseen seems pretty happy to live on a reputation of fear and murder but I don't think she ever actually has a confirmed kill on anyone worth mentioning, except maybe Dassem. BTW if Esslemont keeps writing in the Malazan world after he's done with Assail, I think I'd be down for him taking a crack at some of the early days of the Malazan Empire. His writing has been (gradually) improving and I think he could do those events at least some justice, while Erikson continues with bigger and better things (like the Karsa trilogy  ).
The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Sep 22, 2013 |
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Sep 22, 2013 04:50
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amuayse posted:I know that, I just thought it would've been more prudent for the Empress to you know, actually actively utilize their talents rather than just have them out of mind on the front lines. Well the Empress was never as smart as she wanted everyone to think she was so there's that. I think there are two parts to this. First, Lasseen doesn't exactly want those guys in high positions. Not necessarily because they're a-list or whatever, but because they have a lot of loyal followers. Regardless of what talents they bring to the table, given the political environment, it's not unreasonable that she would want them to utilize those talents far away from the capital and to the extent allowable out of positions of particularly high influence. The second is that both Dujek and Whiskeyjack want nothing more than stability for the empire, and know they have a lot of loyalists who will not only follow them if they decide to seize power, but without active dissuasion might actually urge them to do so. So staying out of positions of influence and away from places where power is exercised fits their goals.
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Sep 22, 2013 06:39
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[quote="The Ninth Layer" post="""] Lasseen seems pretty happy to live on a reputation of fear and murder but I don't think she ever actually has a confirmed kill on anyone worth mentioning, except maybe Dassem. [/quote] Even then... he's not particularly dead.
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Sep 22, 2013 12:53
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Masonity posted:Even then... he's not particularly dead. Or at all.
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Sep 22, 2013 16:26
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I am just starting book number three. Really digging the series. Almost didn't get into it. If you are starting with GOTM, keep trying. I had to start reading it four times to finally power through the first hundred paged and get hooked. Definitely worth it.
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Sep 23, 2013 00:49
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Witness.Mr.Boofu posted:I am just starting book number three. Really digging the series. Almost didn't get into it. If you are starting with GOTM, keep trying. I had to start reading it four times to finally power through the first hundred paged and get hooked. Definitely worth it. Testify.
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Sep 23, 2013 03:16
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Ethiser posted:I imagine that that is just one of his additional souls. We meet his sister and learn about his childhood in one of the books so we know the base Quick Ben is just a normal yet powerful human Mage. He just got lucky and was picked to hold the souls of other mages. I always got the feeling Quick Ben basically got the souls from the other mages by extortion during the escape attempt through the desert. Whiskeyjack and his men encounter one dead mage after another, and finally we end up with Quick Ben that changes side. Also, why didn't just the mages lure out the Bridgeburners into the desert, murder them and escape? Seeing what Quick Ben accomplishes in the main series, that shouldn't really be a problem for them. Also, Tayschreen in GoTM is extremely badly written and has literally nothing do to do with the rest of the books.
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Sep 23, 2013 13:23
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Cardiac posted:I always got the feeling Quick Ben basically got the souls from the other mages by extortion during the escape attempt through the desert. Whiskeyjack and his men encounter one dead mage after another, and finally we end up with Quick Ben that changes side. Also, why didn't just the mages lure out the Bridgeburners into the desert, murder them and escape? Seeing what Quick Ben accomplishes in the main series, that shouldn't really be a problem for them. I suspect what happened with the mages, the pursuit and eventually QB joining the Bridgeburners was all according to plan. QB's plan most likely. Remember, he wanted to make himself scarce from his past and the Bridgeburners moved around a lot during the Empire's expansion phase. Also, the Bridgeburners came out of the desert greater then they went into it. Again, that was probably what QB wanted to accomplish for his own purposes.
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Sep 23, 2013 14:54
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So was the Crippled God the god of death in his old world? I think that would make sorta sense because of the jade statues full of dead worshippers following him through the portal.
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Sep 23, 2013 15:04
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amuayse posted:So was the Crippled God the god of death in his old world? I think that would make sorta sense because of the jade statues full of dead worshippers following him through the portal. I believe it is actually implied that he may be the only god on his world, and IIRC he has some passages in the latter novels that talk about how despite being their only god, his people basically make up things he told or commanded them, and go to war over him with other cultures despite them all sharing the same god. Honestly, I got the impression that the TCG was in that sense an intentional bit of an analogue for our god of the JudeoChristianIslamic tradition. Kalas posted:I suspect what happened with the mages, the pursuit and eventually QB joining the Bridgeburners was all according to plan. QB's plan most likely. Remember, he wanted to make himself scarce from his past and the Bridgeburners moved around a lot during the Empire's expansion phase. This isn't really supported by the QB and Kalam POV flash back we get in one of the novels. QB was definitely planning on stealing their souls, but he and Kalam were also planning to be able to leave the BB behind and go off on their own. Whiskeyjack turned it on them (like the BBs are so good at doing). Regarding the 'why didn't the mages just destroy them' question, well, we have seen plenty limitations with mages. Their condition when fleeing the BBs was deteriorating, and by the time we catch up with QB he is in worse shape than the normal people chasing him (who are not quite normal at that point) despite being the depository of a high mage cadre. Plus munitions and all that. I seem to recall, and I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that they just figured (maybe it was even mentioned that QB had talked them into it) that it would be easier to try to lose them in the monster that is Raraku that to go up against the Empire's elite marines. Habibi fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 23, 2013 |
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Sep 23, 2013 15:55
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I finished The Crippled God last night and there were a few characters who seemed to be left out near the ending. Mainly Kallor and the Errant. Draconus killed Kilmandaros and that was the last we saw of him? The Errant released Korabas as part of his plan but then although it failed it seems like it should have come back to him to at least get his reaction I'm just wondering if they're going to be in future books which was why they were ignored or if I've just forgotten something. What order do people recommend I read the other books in the series too?
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Sep 24, 2013 10:06
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I'd read another 10 books just about Kallor's adventures over the ages. Favorite character in the series.
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Sep 24, 2013 10:13
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Scott Bakula posted:I finished The Crippled God last night and there were a few characters who seemed to be left out near the ending. Mainly Kallor and the Errant. Draconus killed Kilmandaros and that was the last we saw of him? The Errant released Korabas as part of his plan but then although it failed it seems like it should have come back to him to at least get his reaction Errastas is currently on the run from Draconus (who makes a very brief appearance in OST), but is ignored (along with Kallor) in TCG because they don't figure into the resolution. Kallor features prominently in Blood and Bone. I maybe should spoiler that because ICE tries to hide it for a while, but I thought it was obvious from pretty much his first appearance who it was.
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Sep 24, 2013 17:54
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Honestly, I don't even need any resolution on Errastas. Guy has Draconus after him. There's only one way that's going to end, and it has such a sense of inevitability to it that the only real reason I can see it being written out is to give readers the satisfaction of seeing him bite it. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. Narratively though, I'm satisfied with what we know.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:39
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Errastas is sticking around so that Karsa will have someone to gently caress up when his trilogy rolls around. He'll get built up into even more of an rear end in a top hat in the Kharkanas trilogy, and it'll be super satisfying when Draconus and Karsa take him out.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:43
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I am in general OK with the lack of resolution for all those characters. The series is a history of a particular time, event, and people, so it's only natural that we don't see what happens to everyone whose trajectory intersects it. On the other hand, unlike Errastas, Kallor is actually an interesting character and as said above, I wouldn't minx reading a book about him (his exploits in and death of his empire could be an epic good read). And on the gripping hand, if the point of Errastas is to become an even bigger rear end in a top hat before Karsa splits him in twain with either one of his swords, that's just fine, too.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:58
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Habibi posted:And on the gripping hand Good lord
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Sep 25, 2013 02:47
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