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three posted:Would you give someone a certification in physics if they watched a 3 hour video and took an online quiz? Or would that be... wait for it... worthless to demonstrate their knowledge of physics? Depends how much I valued the certification; an entry level physics exam? Maybe, but that wouldn't get them hired over some internship.
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Sep 21, 2013 04:04
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I am not really sure what is being argued about at this point. I don't think anyone thinks that a three hour video is a substitute for a PhD in Physics or that having a VCA cert means you have mastered VMware.
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Sep 21, 2013 04:09
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As a prospective employer, what value should I place in a cert representing an afternoon of effort? As a prospective employer, would it be reasonable for me to assume that if someone is certified in something, they have more than a casual understanding of the topic? If yes, do certs that do not meet that criteria devalue vendor credibility and that of certifications in general? If no, why should an employee bother to put that cert on their resume?
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Sep 21, 2013 04:18
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Really, this can all be summarized by this:MC Fruit Stripe posted:Certifications should be some sort of measurable knowledge beyond "being able to nod your head and look comfortable as smarter people talk." Also, this: Contingency posted:As a prospective employer, what value should I place in a cert representing an afternoon of effort?
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Sep 21, 2013 04:19
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Contingency posted:As a prospective employer, what value should I place in a cert representing an afternoon of effort? There are loads of IT certs that are useless to prospective employers depending on what they are looking for. If the VCA takes an afternoon of study but the test certifies that the holder knows that content then you know what you are getting when you see it. Hell, the VCP only takes a week long class to learn (because it is a pre-req) and no one from my team that has taken it has failed to pass on the first attempt so is that valuable? Would you hire someone to run your VM environment after only a week of study? Knowledge can be acquired very quickly but expertise takes a great deal of time, certifications do a good job of testing knowledge but are typically very poor at testing expertise. Any employer that doesn't understand this and places to much value in any certification will end up in a bad way. Anyway, I don't actually think we are really disagreeing.
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Sep 21, 2013 04:38
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Goddamn guys. It's Friday night and y'all are arguing about certs on the Internet. Well let me join in. That VCA is loving worthless and it's insulting to even call it a certification. It more worthless than a CompTIA *+ cert.
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Sep 21, 2013 04:43
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dotster posted:There are loads of IT certs that are useless to prospective employers depending on what they are looking for. I'm waiting for Dilbert to claim that's a good thing.  dotster posted:If the VCA takes an afternoon of study but the test certifies that the holder knows that content then you know what you are getting when you see it. Hell, the VCP only takes a week long class to learn (because it is a pre-req) and no one from my team that has taken it has failed to pass on the first attempt so is that valuable? Would you hire someone to run your VM environment after only a week of study? I used two metrics: effort and understanding (depth of knowledge). Effort is not necessarily a good evaluator: a cert is not suddenly more valuable if the training class takes place over a week instead of a one-evening cram session. Depth of knowledge is useful for career roles that favor it (call center tech support being a good counterexample). I agree that depth of knowledge is not enough in some positions. As an employer, the question is whether I want the candidate to be able to figure out problems, or have already spent time figuring out problems on another company's dime (and as a result spend more time solving problems and less learning how to solve them). A certification would ideally meet the former at a minimum, and advanced certs (like CCIE) recognize the latter. I expect certs to be more important for junior roles and experience for senior positions.
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Sep 21, 2013 05:07
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Contingency posted:I used two metrics: effort and understanding (depth of knowledge). Effort is not necessarily a good evaluator: a cert is not suddenly more valuable if the training class takes place over a week instead of a one-evening cram session. Depth of knowledge is useful for career roles that favor it (call center tech support being a good counterexample). I agree that depth of knowledge is not enough in some positions. As an employer, the question is whether I want the candidate to be able to figure out problems, or have already spent time figuring out problems on another company's dime (and as a result spend more time solving problems and less learning how to solve them). A certification would ideally meet the former at a minimum, and advanced certs (like CCIE) recognize the latter. I expect certs to be more important for junior roles and experience for senior positions. That makes sense.
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Sep 21, 2013 05:24
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I re-sat my 640-802 this morning after previously failing with score of 815. This time I was fortunate and got a set of questions and simulations which didn't pose me any problems, right up until I finished the very last question, pressed submit, and the workstation I was using totally crashed and demanded it be restarted. I could feel the blood drain from my face at the prospect of having to re-do the whole thing again, but thankfully the administator there was able to recover my session or something after it had rebooted. I ended up passing with 960 which i'm massively pleased with but, holy poo poo, was that ever a tense few moments. How do you go about listing a CCNA on your CV? Do you just put 'CCNA Switching and Routing 640-802', or are you expected to provide candidate numbers and all that so that it can be checked by a prospective employer?
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Sep 21, 2013 14:57
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moron posted:How do you go about listing a CCNA on your CV? Do you just put 'CCNA Switching and Routing 640-802', or are you expected to provide candidate numbers and all that so that it can be checked by a prospective employer? I just list "Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA)" and the month and year I obtained it. At my current gig they asked for my Cisco ID number after I was hired so they could use it toward their partner status.
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Sep 21, 2013 15:07
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GOOCHY posted:I just list "Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA)" and the month and year I obtained it. At my current gig they asked for my Cisco ID number after I was hired so they could use it toward their partner status. This is the best way to do it because it ensures that regardless of how your resume is searched it will show the CCNA on it. (e.g. if they search for just the acronym or the full name).
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Sep 21, 2013 15:15
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Re: VCA. I think it's at least a start. It's nice that VMware are trying to create something to fill the space between "I've never heard of virtualization" and "I took a (potentially) $3000 class, and passed a reasonably challenging test on the ins and outs of VMware virtualization. That said, it'd be nice if it were more like the CCENT, where by the time you take it you feel like you actually know a few things. On the topic of how HR departments view it: There are already loads of certs that most people place little to no value on. This cert being bad doesn't devalue all certs. It's not hurting anything by existing, I just wish there were more to it.
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Sep 21, 2013 18:00
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Yeah even the CCENT is incomparable to the VCA. The VCA is just a sales pitch that you pay $0/$60/$120 to hear, and then you get a certificate saying, "VMware told me about all their products and I can remember what they do." I was happy to do it for free since it took maybe 2 hours total for me, and I can put it on my resume for jobs that say "requires knowledge of VMware solutions" or whatever, but I would have never spent money on it. The VCP is a totally different situation of course, but the VCA is kind of an embarrassment.
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Sep 21, 2013 18:12
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three posted:They're all literally worthless, and VMware should be embarrassed to have added them. Not saying that to be mean, but there is zero point in a certification that can be taken in an hour online with no knowledge of the platform. It's worth it since I can say to my clueless boss 'hey I got this cert' and get another couple of $k a year and it cost me no money and 2 hours of my time Alctel fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 20:23
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Alctel posted:It's worth it since I can say to my clueless boss 'hey I got this cert' and get another couple of $k a year and it cost me no money and 2 hours of my time If you get bonuses on a per-cert basis the coupon is good for the other two VCA exams as well. The VCA-Cloud I found to be a little more challenging than the DCV, but it was ultimately still just memorizing the names of different products/features.
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Sep 21, 2013 21:33
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Contingency posted:I'm waiting for Dilbert to claim that's a good thing. Never said it was an amazingly going to get you hired cert but it is a start for a bunch of people.
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Sep 22, 2013 02:09
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Hey cert thread, I need advice. I'm looking at junior network and linux admin roles at the moment. What will help me break in and give me some actual practical knowledge (as opposed to cram, get paper and forget)? I went: Comptia A+ -> IT related Diploma -> IT related Degree and have been working full time in a support role for a bit, so getting past the HR screen shouldn't be that big of a problem. I've been going through CCENT/CCNA material at the moment and it seems like a good refresher from when I did network papers, is it worth it to continue on with that and take the exam? What about for Linux/Unix roles? Are the CompTIA or LPIC certs going to actually teach me anything that would be valuable in a real enterprise nix environment? I'd like to do the Redhat certs but it looks like I can't do it in my country and would require going overseas to do it (no way).
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Sep 23, 2013 02:50
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I've decided to go down the MCSA Server 2012 route. I'm trying to find a good self study book for it, and was going to go with this one right here http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Server-Complete-Study-Guide/dp/1118544072/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379908194&sr=8-1&keywords=mcsa But the reviews seem like its not that great in coverage, nor is it well received. Any suggestions for what book to get?
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Sep 23, 2013 04:51
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Xik posted:Hey cert thread, I need advice. I'm looking at junior network and linux admin roles at the moment. What will help me break in and give me some actual practical knowledge (as opposed to cram, get paper and forget)? LPIC certs are decent, but I don't think they're particularly well known. CCNA is generally respected and HR friendly. If you can't actually get the RHCSA/RHCE, it may still be worthwhile to pick up the Jang text and read through it - there's a lot of worthwhile material.
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Sep 23, 2013 04:55
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So, my CCNA studies continue. Holy poo poo my brain had derailed as soon as we started talking about VLANs. I understand the concept and using the Packet Tracer activities I can get alllllll but one final step completed. The problem on these particular steps is that the assessment tab is disabled so you cant see what it is that is lacking. Others are pretty good on activities as you can see you have 92/100 points, click assessment and see what you havent done XYZ. It doesnt show what/how you need to do it, but it clues you in on what is needed and usually that triggers a rememberance of what I need to do. The option for Inter-Vlan routing seems easier to grasp for me than Vlans themselves. You have to set access mode for all other ports, except the trunking port, create Vlans, create names (sometimes) for them, assign the ports. Just holy hell there is a lot of show commands for various stuff when digging through the material. Being able to filter that poo poo on the fly is hard for a newb like me as there is so much text output. I will be GLAD to get a C in this class. I can really start to appreciate how if someone has daily exposure to this stuff on a job, of how much material and thought really goes into this thing. It is daunting for sure. I understand a lot more now than I did, but there is still quite a ways to go.
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Sep 23, 2013 14:46
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re: VCA, reminds me of the last 5 questions on the original ShoreTel certification exam (which was a 5-day class and a final exam). Most of the test was reasonably challenging, but then the end was just awful. All questions are multiple-choice: *How much do you love ShoreTel? (it's great / not at all) *Will you recommend ShoreTel to your friends and family? (yes / no) *Which of these phone solutions is the best? (Cisco / Avaya / Nortel / ShoreTel -- hint: ShoreTel) *What feature is ShoreTel missing? (DIDs / Voice Mail / Automated Attendants -- hint: none) *Why is ShoreTel the best? (Scalable / Easy / Fun / Powerful / All of the Above)
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Sep 23, 2013 19:51
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One more question. Why is the last day to test for the CCNA September 30? Is there a new version of the test coming out soon?
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Sep 24, 2013 00:54
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Frag Viper posted:One more question. The new versions are out, but you have until the 30th to take the older versions.
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Sep 24, 2013 00:55
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Guys, I did it. Year of the Job. I got an enormous pay increase and I cannot stop grinning. I was literally shaking when I read my offer letter and nearly couldn't hold my iPhone.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:09
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Tab8715 posted:Guys, So excited that you posted in the wrong thread 
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Sep 24, 2013 01:10
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routenull0 posted:The new versions are out, but you have until the 30th to take the older versions. So is it not 640-802 anymore then? Edit: Nevermind. I READ GUD. Apparently its the 200-120 now. Wonder when Lammle will come out with a new book. Frag Viper fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 01:42
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Frag Viper posted:Wonder when Lammle will come out with a new book. Oct 7th, it's up for pre-order on Amazon. His book for the new CCENT is already out.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:03
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Amphion posted:So excited that you posted in the wrong thread I was wondering where my post went 
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Sep 24, 2013 02:05
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Amphion posted:Oct 7th, it's up for pre-order on Amazon. His book for the new CCENT is already out. You don't have to start there though right? A change of plans at work is kind of making me go the network path first. I was planning on studying for the CCNA. Is it not recommended to do so now with the exam changes? If I skip CCENT will I be missing out on something? I already have my Network+ which I know really means nothing, but I have a solid understanding of networking already thanks to hands on work experience.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:56
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The CCNA is literally the CCENT plus additional material, so yeah, you do have to start there  You can either take the two exams separately, or as one big-rear end exam all at once. That's the case with both the old and new style exams.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:03
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Well, signed up for my CISSP exam. After two months of self studying and a week of class, I can safely say I want nothing to do with ISC2, CISSP, corporate America, or capitalism in general.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:07
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spidoman posted:Well, signed up for my CISSP exam. After two months of self studying and a week of class, I can safely say I want nothing to do with ISC2, CISSP, corporate America, or capitalism in general. What did you use to self study? I have some out TestOut Labsim stuff but I don't know if it has been updated since then. Probably gonna do CISSP after I finish CCNA because I see it on pretty much every job listing as a plus.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:16
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hitachi posted:What did you use to self study? I have some out TestOut Labsim stuff but I don't know if it has been updated since then. Probably gonna do CISSP after I finish CCNA because I see it on pretty much every job listing as a plus. Mostly the Shon Harris book (and practice exams and DVD) as well as an old review seminar handbook that a coworker had. But who knows if they are good training materials. My company also had their own training materials and quizzes.
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Sep 24, 2013 21:32
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spidoman posted:Mostly the Shon Harris book (and practice exams and DVD) as well as an old review seminar handbook that a coworker had. But who knows if they are good training materials. My company also had their own training materials and quizzes. Well good luck on the test. When I last studied the material it all seemed really easy, just a ton of information. I probably wont get to it for a few months.
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Sep 24, 2013 22:02
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spidoman posted:Mostly the Shon Harris book (and practice exams and DVD) as well as an old review seminar handbook that a coworker had. But who knows if they are good training materials. My company also had their own training materials and quizzes. I read Shon's book a long time ago when I took it and it was a really good resource.
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Sep 24, 2013 22:20
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So I won't be able to sit icnd2 before it expires, is there much to the new one?
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Sep 25, 2013 12:30
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Can anyone in the uk recommend a decent long distance college/website offering comptia a+? There are hundreds of sites offering certifications and I am very dubious as to their quality. Many thanks
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Sep 25, 2013 12:41
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Jayo posted:Can anyone in the uk recommend a decent long distance college/website offering comptia a+? There are hundreds of sites offering certifications and I am very dubious as to their quality. Many thanks Don't bother. Just use Professor Messer. It's free. http://www.professormesser.com/
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Sep 25, 2013 15:18
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Has anyone taken a VMware class live online or virtual? I am looking at taking the 5.1 Fast Track class and trying to figure out if I need to travel.
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Sep 25, 2013 15:43
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I've taken some System Center training in the 'live online' format. It was just fine really, but I avoid business travel at all costs right now. Instructor had a webcam and screen sharing software. Did the lecture then we did the virtual labs. It wasn't the same as being in a classroom, but I didn't feel like I missed much. I sat around in house clothes and trained from home that week. It ruled.
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Sep 25, 2013 15:48
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