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Smurf, I live in Portland. I will go to Corbett soon.
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Sep 12, 2013 07:51
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Have fun, have a compass and map with you to confirm the heading from the starting stone where you have the main view of tree directly behind the boulder and then head to the west side of the secondary stone that lines up with Mt. Hood. There is now a direct path to the tree, go about 70 feet (12 paces) and you'll see where the moles have been digging recently. I'm thinking of heading up there this weekend with a shovel...I'm 90 percent sure I'd get arrested though since I don't have a "lookout" and I loom suspicious with my dark tanned skin tone. My Seattle Seahawks ball cap kinda helps improve my persona...but then with my luck the arresting officer will turn out being a SF fan... I prefer a real compass, but you might refer to a smartphone app or GPS to orienteer the situation. Whichever way works best for you, it has to be precise. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Sep 12, 2013 |
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Sep 12, 2013 14:01
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I am afraid to click on the link because I may then be legally bound to commit Urban Smurf.
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Sep 14, 2013 13:11
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:I am afraid to click on the link because I may then be legally bound to commit Urban Smurf. Believe me I've had his PEC filled out for a while... But he's only crazy if he's wrong!
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Sep 14, 2013 14:14
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Take that link and its pdf with a grain of salt. Its just another idea along a long train of mistakes. There are three things that I had some uncertainty about and one major observation that image 7 has a half crecent jewel, turquoise... I missed that for three years! I assumed it was just apiece of the background sky and the jewel was completely obscurred to make things more interesting. Anyways, my pdf worksheet is all about piecing the Litany of the Jewels together with each location. This might not mean anything to the people who are only focused on the images, but here's something I just submitted to the Q4T forum as an example of my process with respect to the verse and some of it's allusions to literary or oral tradition: Turquoise the Fays of France keep: stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day. Now that I've got it sorted, the crescent shaped turquise in image 7 and New Orleans' France born heritage, I may look more closely at verse 2 for location specifics. At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Outside-the-box: Does the word "keep" from the LotJ come from a children's bedtime prayer? Both the prayer and the verse reference where heads go for the night and both relate to the word "wake". Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep, If I shall die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Amen My idea stems from the alternate sense of the word 'wake' as a vigil relating to a funeral. Is the sound of friends in afternoon hours the sound of a wake? I previously referred to the use of reference to the Preservation Hall most requested and Louis Armstrong favorite: When The Saints Go Marching In. This is a funeral dirge, basically an upbeat wake tune. Oh, when the saints go marching in Oh, when the saints go marching in I want to be in that number When the saints go marching in In the middle of twenty-one = "in that number". This brings me back to the the Fays of France keep: stone and At the place where jewels abound, both being end-of-line words, I find there's a commonality and possibly a major wordplay leap that will be hard for some to swallow. Abound means "great in number". I ask, what is the greatest number? Posed as a mini-riddle, I think the answer is "No. 1". Even though it's considered the smallest whole number, it's also used to represent the number everyone wants to be, better than the rest, or winningest. Is the word 'stone' a play on words? stone = st.one = concatenated version of "Saint One" or "Saint Louis Cemetery No. 1". The next line "rare as a blue mindsummer's day" may be using the word 'rare' to mean 'unique' or "only one". A midsummer's day only happens once a year? Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 15:34
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Urban Smurf posted:Well, people seem to be stuck around here or their interest has waned or my posts are complete crap and this hunt is fading into a nihilistic glory hole. I thought this forum really got off to a good start.
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Sep 14, 2013 19:15
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I'm still payin' attention to the thread but most of the SF theories are either deadended due to changes in the landscape or fuckin' nuts.
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Sep 14, 2013 19:20
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I moved away and couldn't work on Montreal anymore. If anyone's interested I could probably tell them what I was thinking about but not much progress was made.
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Sep 14, 2013 19:29
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Has anyone made any attempt to contact the illustrator? He declined to help previously but with the quote from Preiss that proves he intended to have the solutions released in the event of his death it might be possible to get him to reveal what he knows, if anything.
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Sep 14, 2013 19:36
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:I'm still payin' attention to the thread but most of the SF theories are either deadended due to changes in the landscape or fuckin' nuts. Are you interested in hearing my fortune cookie theory for SF?
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Sep 14, 2013 19:44
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I don't think they are intentionally withholding. I think they just don't remember or care anymore and they've been bugged enough about it I am sure. I'm still lurking here but, I'm unable to find a free moment to update the Milwaukee wiki. Although I do intend to. I've been looking too but, casually as I travel for work around the city. I don't care if the site has been renovated and the cask destroyed, I just want to clarify where it was. I also want to work on a small scale hunt of my own along the lines that was discussed earlier. I've just been broke and working to keep a roof over my head so it'll be a bit before I'm back on it.
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Sep 14, 2013 19:49
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My turn on the crazy train I guess:Urban Smurf posted:
I just don't buy that it's buried in a cemetery. That seems a bit out of character from what we know thus far and makes digging in possible areas extremely taboo so I choose not to entertain those possibilities entirely. Now in the early 80's in New Orleans Museum of Art, located within the City Park there was a large faberge egg collection being showcased and in 1980 I seem to remember a large amount of costume jewelry on display used in mardi gras celebrations as part of the New Orleans Triennial exhibit. A few yards away is the New Orleans Botanical Garden which seems to satisfy the phrase: "gnomes admire, Fays delight" The next two lines "The namesakes meeting near this site" could refer to Storyland, located next door to the botanical garden.  Notice 3 are standing watch? Unfortunately City Park definitely has undergone several major construction projects, not to mention flooding, so finding a place that matches the rest of that criteria will be difficult. Nodelphi fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 20:15
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Whoa! NO NO NO, its not buried in a cemetery. Its buried on Basin St., in the neutral ground. Did I not post my theory for New Orleans? It involves recognzing the three statues along Basin St., finding where St. Louis street intersects at the location of the St. Louis Cemetery No. 1 and finding the Rouelle Family Tomb No.21 which is along a row of 15 above ground tombs and peeks/peaks over the wall. Use that as the 12 O'clock position and use the Morazan statue as the 2:57 position to locate the cask. Now I challenge you to put down that bag of jelly bellies and head directly to the site with a ground probe and prove me wrong. E: here it is, p.80 Cask 7 Crazy New Orleans Theory Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 20:28
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I went to my local used book warehouse and tried to find a physical copy of the book, but came up empty. I was looking in "P" for Preiss, but now that I look at an eBay listing it looks like Sean Kelly's name is actually listed first on the spine. Correct? And for anyone who's found it in a used bookstore, was it in Fantasy/Sci-Fi? Seems logical based on the cover art.
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Sep 14, 2013 22:30
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GWBBQ posted:This forum has long suffered from a condition called Goon ADD. Great ideas get great starts then fizzle when our collective attention span ends. In my case, I followed a theory all the way through to actually being ready to start digging, then got denied permission to dig.  It's bothered me so much that I've even considered sneaking out to High Battery in the middle of the night with a shovel.
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Sep 14, 2013 23:22
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The problem is, people need to recompile all the information into the wiki so that it's easy for people to search. New people see a 70 page thread and think, "yeah, no time to read that." I'm stalled because I'm not actually that close to Houston and my last trip was a dud. I'll spool back up, but it was demoralizing to think you're so close and then realize you're not close at all.
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Sep 15, 2013 00:46
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Now that the tourist season is over flights over to Roanoke are so cheap it's really tempting to just take a week or 2 and go. If not for cask hunting/recon, then just for the vacation. In what I've learned about it looking into the cask it really does seem like a nice place to relax for a week or 2.
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Sep 15, 2013 01:34
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Ceciltron posted:I moved away and couldn't work on Montreal anymore. If anyone's interested I could probably tell them what I was thinking about but not much progress was made. sure, share away, I'm still working 2 minutes away from one of our theories 
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Sep 15, 2013 15:55
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Cask 6 Check this out. Here is a side by side rough comparison with no rotation or jmage stretch, just a plain map of the Washington-Oregon area. The main focus in the image seems to be the Spanish explorer. He's up high, on top of the rocks. Down low and to the right of the image and in the distance is the white glacier next to the tropical tree. I do believe this works perfectly for the Corbett site when looking at a map. I hadn't ever done this exactly this way before. It's simple. I outlined the site of Mt. St. Helens in red, where I believe is the absolute focus of the line "wingless bird ascending, born of ancient dreams of flight," and I've outliend Mt. Hood in blue, where I think applies to something far in the distance that's white and glacial. The yellow outline in the map is where the Corbett site is and I've just guestimated where it's position should be on image6 to see if it brings anything into focus. I don't think it does anything except it is at the position where a bundle of flowers are. 
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 19:13
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I haven't given up on Boston, but I've totally stalled out. I still feel very strongly about the location, but have found nothing else since then to point me to a more exact spot. I also moved jobs which has played hell with my schedule, I don't have the freedom to wander down there every day before work or on lunch anymore. One building I'd like to investigate a little more is the First Church in Cambridge, which isn't super special but does have history on its side, as well as a large porthole design.
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Sep 17, 2013 15:03
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I'm not giving up anytime soon but I think we need to start looking into GPR or something similar to find these. Are there any engineers in the house?
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Sep 17, 2013 16:00
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Bolkovr posted:I went to my local used book warehouse and tried to find a physical copy of the book, but came up empty. FWIW this was recently put online. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/69009390/The%20Secret_OCR.pdf I might bug Kelly to see if he'll say anything about Montreal but apart from that I've pretty much given up. I don't expect to see another casque surface. It would take a degree of craziness and tenacity with a shovel and a GPR which has only manifested in cyberspace. BJG fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 18:23
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I know every crackpot (Sorry Urban) feels the same way, but I'm pretty sure about Boston. To the point where it's actually caused my interest to wane a little - if it's not here it's likely unfindable. There are certain parts of it that just match too well - multiple visual images at the spot as well as the very very strong verse matches. Obviously my "solve" of the verse is incomplete - gently caress Thucydides and Xenophon, and gently caress your green tower of lights, but the things that match match. If I had more help, or more people on the ground, or something, I'd love to try to work on it some more. I've been all over the park, and the only place I hadn't really considered was the children's playground at the north end. Unfortunately, it was completely redone in the 90s, and I have no idea what it used to look like.
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Sep 17, 2013 21:43
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stab posted:sure, share away, I'm still working 2 minutes away from one of our theories Ok, here's a quick write up of what was scrawled in one of my many notebooks. Assuming: the verse portion is the specific and the painting points to the city more than the specific location, without going to deep into the picture aside from the leg-eater connection: Cask 9, Verse 7, Montreal At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Took this as the side door of the cathedral at Dorchester square. Catholic Churches are big on incense and the cathedral regularly has services that involve it (I've been to a few masses there). Not far away High posts are three The statue of MacDonald on the south side of René Levesque has triple columns on each of the four corners of the roof-structure over the statue itself Education and Justice For all to see Education can be taken to refer to Msgr. Bourget, an important figure in the early school system of quebec. His statue is across the lane from MacDonald, in front of the cathedral, to the East. Justice can be take to mean Wilfrid Laurier, who was a well respected lawyer and was most known for his staunch opposition to MacDonald during the Riel Rebellion -he urged leniency. It`s important to remember that this was one of the first politicians to openly treat Métis as actual people and citizens -a possible connection to the `for all to see` segment. This statue sits direclt facing MacDonald, to the north, across René-Levesque Boulevard. Sounds from the sky Near ace is high This one gave me the most trouble until i looked really, really hard and found this, right near the front of the Cathedral. Sounds from the sky can be taken to be the bells, and their ringing. St. Patrick is holding what appears to be more akin to an Ace of Clubs, and not a typical clover (note the lack of dimples on the leaves- though this is likely conjecture on my part)  Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Not sure what this is, yet. Is an object Of Twain's attention Twain's attention can mean a lot of things, a lot of theories were gone over in this thread, with myself positing that the capitalisation of Twain might be a trick or a mislead - the twain can also mean "two", like in "and never the twain shall meet". So keep in mind Twain's attention could be something that two mentioned things from this riddle may be looking at our jewel, or something leading to the jewel. Giant pole Maybe, MAYBE this may be the flagpole in Place du Canada, maybe it's the radio mast atop the CIBC building (the tallest in the world up until a certain time, and definitely there during the book's writing).  Giant step The Sun Life building looks like a bunch of steps, owing to it's stepped design, but I wouldn't bank on it. To the place The casque is kept. And from there I'm out of ideas. This also sums up most of the posts I've made in the thread. In the image for Cask 9, the small design under the leg-eater looks remarkably like Marie-Reine-Du-Monde, but is certainly not visible from there. Ceciltron fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 00:27
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Is anyone working on New Orleans any more? I had a theory, went and scoped it out near armstrong park, and decided that Its not possible to dig there without being arrested, and tossed in a NO Jail with a bunch of homeless and drunks.
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Sep 18, 2013 09:32
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Ceciltron posted:Ok, here's a quick write up of what was scrawled in one of my many notebooks. From your "Ace", look just "running north." It's "A cross" on the next statue over, exactly like the line says you should first see. See the statue holding it? "Twain" is the center-most statue on the roof. You can also make a link of importance between Twain and Joseph. "Giant pole" and "giant step" (statue holding a staff and statue taking a visible step off the roof) follow right after with the statues on the roof of Marie Reinne du Monde running north from the center. I wasn't joking when I said that I thought that you'd dunked this a couple of months ago with your discovery of that St. Patrick ace. Five statues in a row fit the verse. I've been pretty convinced since then that this is too coincidental for the casque not to be at the end of that roofline, or somewhere on the north side matching where the Cathedral casques are buried. ed -- I posted this after getting home a little tipsy last night, so a quick correction. I don't think that St. Joseph is the center-most statue on the roof, but rather the center of the five statues referred to in the verse. Also, you can make a couple of meta-connections between Twain and St. Joseph. Not the Mark Twain-St. Joseph Medical Center, though, since that's newer than the book. I think that it's likely that "Twain" also points to the road that runs right in front of this line of statues. It's the road that bisects Dominion Square and splits it in two, which I think was Ceciltron's original thought on what it meant. Guuse fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 11:34
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Here are "Ace," "A cross (across)," "Twain," "Pole" and "Step" in a picture from a different vantage. It does rely on "giant" referring to the stautes being larger than human sized:
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Sep 19, 2013 12:03
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That's by far the best match anyone has made for any of the remaining casks so far. Once again, we need someone local to check it out further.
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Sep 19, 2013 22:44
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xie posted:I know every crackpot (Sorry Urban) feels the same way, but I'm pretty sure about Boston. To the point where it's actually caused my interest to wane a little - if it's not here it's likely unfindable. I am planning on going back at some point but my schedule has been crap as well. I still like the Commons but really think we need to go to the history commission and see if there are plans that can be found. Then again, I saw some nice photography of Copley Square on the wall at MGH and man if there aren't a lot of matches there. I would love to see more images of the old Copley Square, in particular the fountain. All I have seen is one picture from the side and would love to know more about its shape, etc. If it's not in the Commons it was probably there and has been lost. Interestingly enough, there are entire books written about the Copley Square redesign... http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/74765#files-area
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Sep 20, 2013 14:22
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I'm sitting in Radcliffe right now and the common is right there. I'm starting to lean more toward this side of the park - from Radcliffe Yard if you look properly you can see the Church more or less as you need to, you just can't because of tree growth in the park. That's something you probably could see 30 years ago though. Radcliffe is another completely renovated spot that was an entirely different university in the 1980s. Harvard has done a lot to fix it up - some stuff is original, but a lot of it has been completely re landscaped and refinished. The Washington tree area, which is over by the ballfield (would love to know how long that field's been there)? I just sort of ran out of steam on this. New eyes would be really helpful.
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Sep 20, 2013 16:39
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GWBBQ posted:This forum has long suffered from a condition called Goon ADD. Great ideas get great starts then fizzle when our collective attention span ends. It's not ADD, it's the lack of the ability for people to go out and confirm if any of our ideas are at all correct. Between legal concerns, 40 years worth of construction, and lack of goon motivation, we're just throwing theories out and in many cases have no way of confirming them.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:07
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SheepNameKiller posted:It's not ADD, it's the lack of the ability for people to go out and confirm if any of our ideas are at all correct. Between legal concerns, 40 years worth of construction, and lack of goon motivation, we're just throwing theories out and in many cases have no way of confirming them. Yeah, the sad thing about this thread is that I think people have probably figured out a lot of the locations long ago but dude committed a bunch of probable felonies burying the things in restricted locations and nobody wants to risk digging them up.
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Sep 21, 2013 14:31
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obscurer en tut posted:Cask 2 - Charleston SC What's the possibility of this happening? I've no experience with academia; is there some way we can get some fancy private college with an archaeology department excited enough to sign off on stuff like this? What about some sort of scanning device that doesn't involve digging? Would ground-mapping radar be precise enough? Could it tell a ceramic container from a large rock?
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Sep 21, 2013 15:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, the sad thing about this thread is that I think people have probably figured out a lot of the locations long ago but dude committed a bunch of probable felonies burying the things in restricted locations and nobody wants to risk digging them up. I don't know about "a lot" of locations. I know I've been pretty hardcore on my city and have actively been looking for months both in places I thought it could be and in places others thought it might be. Miles and miles apart from each other. I can't get sure enough about any clues to even warrant bringing a shovel "just in case". Every time I go out I am just more and more sure it's been long since renovated over. I think the fact that most casks have been lost to time and more people are just realizing it is what's killing the thread. For me, I'd like to reconstruct 1981 (using old photos, maps, etc.. ), find a +95% possibility, and if it's renovated or lost take comfort in that I probably found it. That's about as close as many of us can probably get and most of thisd thread is hell bent on being able to dig and find something. Which I honestly don't see happening. OMGVBFLOL posted:What about some sort of scanning device that doesn't involve digging? Would ground-mapping radar be precise enough? Could it tell a ceramic container from a large rock? From what I learned in this thread, GPR is the best option for non-digging devices. On the other hand, it will only tell you that there is a blob a few feet under it which could be everything from old Yeller's bones, to a stump, to a cask, to a wad of clay, to a rock. And the only way to determine is to dig. VVV VVV I think that is an awesome idea. I'm using a combination of library resources and the historical society but, if someone needs a location confirmed like that old school at Harvard that was wiped out, I'm sure there are thousands of pics by students from that school in the 1980s. crashdome fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 18:19
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What about posting an ad on something like CL in your city and asking if anyone has any old pictures of x city/park/area from the 1980's under the guise of an art project or something of that nature? I know my parents took pictures of literally everything pre-1990's because apparently that was a thing back then. Then at the very least you can get a general idea of what the area was like 30 years ago and if your even luckier you might stick gold. People take pictures of land marks, and from what we saw with the 2 already found casks land marks in the pictures played a big role in location. Just an idea.
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Sep 21, 2013 18:25
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OMGVBFLOL posted:What about some sort of scanning device that doesn't involve digging? Would ground-mapping radar be precise enough? Could it tell a ceramic container from a large rock? Ground Penetrating Radar is not a foolproof treasure finder but a tool that takes your chances from Sisyphean to merely Herculean.
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Sep 21, 2013 18:39
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How often to people look back on what we know to be true about the Chicago or Cleveland finds? I find it hard to engage the remaining puzzles while there is the possibilty of unperceived or unanswered questions. Image 4 had the question about "Socrates, Pindar, Apelles" followed by "free speech, couplet, birch" where it seemed sensible to correlate free speech with Socrates the orator and philosopher, couplet with Pindar the poet, and then the artist Apelles with birch seemed like a bump in the road that needed further examination. A birch tree wasn't discovered at the site, nor was there any memory by the groundskeeper of one being near. All I can think of is that Preiss mentions birch for a symbolic reason, that being the birch tree is seen as a very narrow, slim tree, and it's bark is used as a parchment for writing upon. This might play well with a biographical piece where Apelles made visit with Protogenes, his contemporary and rival artist. In a sort of standoff, they challenged eachother by painting an extremely fine line across a panel. In response, Protogenes drew a second and finer line above it. Apelles one-upped tht by painting an even finer line between the two lines which allowed for no further improvements. I can't help but see this as an example of two countries establishing their border and the wall being the final demarcation. The best word I can think of to describe the gist of the verse is 'bound'. To bound means to jump or hop, but a boundary means a wall, or a fence, or that outline making up a rectangular plot. Chiron, the quintessential centaur, gave his life to free Prometheus from his bounds. Maybe this will help people understand there's indeed a more thematic context and purpose to these puzzles.
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Sep 21, 2013 21:07
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If I could get teleported to any one spot to try digging, it would be to the "2C" at Charlesgate in Boston. I don't care how many people have stood around it shaking their heads with their hands in their pockets; I'm completely with Rook and Smurf on that one. If y'all want to find a casque, you have to try other people's hunches and not just your own. IMHO.
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Sep 21, 2013 22:42
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I almost got into a fender bender when I was last in SF because I got distracted craning my neck looking at a roadside park mentioned in one of the less-mainstream theories. I give credence to all theories but also I am terrible.
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Sep 22, 2013 00:48
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AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2013 00:40
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