|
I can't be the only one who didn't know that Jomon has quite interesting (if not actually that good) anti-R'lyeh underwater troops and basically a flying, sacred King of the Deep (but better) tucked under the waves, can I?
jBrereton fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Sep 24, 2013 |
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 19:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 05:31 |
|
|
jBrereton posted:I can't be the only one who didn't know that Jomon has quite interesting (if not actually that good) anti-R'lyeh underwater troops and basically a flying, sacred, non-StR King of the Deep (but better) tucked under the waves, can I? Those have been around since dom3  If Jomon could be guaranteed a coastal province it would be worth building your strategy around them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 19:35
|
|
|
That would probably be a bit too good. Ryujin were amazing at 500 gold and are pretty much a steal at 355
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Sep 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 19:51
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:Those have been around since dom3 Nation description: "Boring-rear end humans who have slightly awkward magic maths and really disgustingly high resource costs, it's Feudal Japan." When it should say: "DREAMLANDS-PROOF CRAB GENERALS AND AMPHIBIOUS SHARK GUYS LIE 'NEATH THE WAVES, GET DIVING"
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 20:15
|
|
|
I like how in their description it says that the Crabs and Shrimps are literally too stupid too retarded to be affected heavily by insanity.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 20:37
|
|
|
amuayse posted:I like how in their description it says that the Crabs and Shrimps are literally too stupid too retarded to be affected heavily by insanity. Also note that they have low MR which is super great against R'lyeh who would never do something like use mind blast, soul slay or master enslave your army. dis astranagant posted:That would probably be a bit too good. Ryujin were amazing at 500 gold and are pretty much a steal at 355 Ruyjin are only 355g now? I remember getting hosed up by a linebacker communion of them due to their built in stormflight. Though linebacker communion may be out now they are still extremely good. With that low of a cost an amphibious awake SC sounds like a rather good idea as Jomon.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 20:56
|
|
|
So is the main character now an Ophan? Dom 3 had Umor as the posterboy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 21:30
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:Also note that they have low MR which is super great against R'lyeh who would never do something like use mind blast, soul slay or master enslave your army. They're slow to recruit but as an added bonus you get 5 turn 800 gold forts underwater as opposed to 6 turn 1k gold on land. 1/4 of them can cast acid rain, another quarter get bone melter, freezing mist for another and the rest can cast maws of the earth and rust mist. And that's not getting into what you can do with the 10% randoms. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 22:22
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:They're slow to recruit but as an added bonus you get 5 turn 800 gold forts underwater as opposed to 6 turn 1k gold on land. So basically you should stick a fort in every single underwater province you can get your hands on and pump those fuckers out as fast as you can. Jomon is just a confused water nation that wandered onto land.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
Well less instances of SHAMERFUR DISPRAY with the crabs and sharks having high morale and being able to hit pretty hard. The fact most ocean dwellers are naked helps too. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:15
|
|
|
Nuclearmonkee posted:So basically you should stick a fort in every single underwater province you can get your hands on and pump those fuckers out as fast as you can. Jomon is just a confused water nation that wandered onto land.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
It's 4 shrimp per 5 points then 3 shark warriors per 4 after 20.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Well less instances of SHAMERFUR DISPRAY with the crabs and sharks having high morale and being able to hit pretty hard. The fact most ocean dwellers are naked helps too. Hey, just a friendly piece of advice here: Your racial jokes don't play so well, so maybe cut them out in the future? And no, before you even say it, the fact that it is an internet meme doesn't help.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:It's 4 shrimp per 5 points then 3 shark warriors per 4 after 20.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
Still, shrimps are better than your average atlantean/triton/merfolk soldier due to their armor and defense. Maybe useful as a spear wall in the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:51
|
|
|
If you want to go underwater as Jomon you probably have to hope for a game with no actual underwater nations (or Ermor) or luck upon a lake. That's my take anyway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:51
|
|
|
Well, there's really only one fully underwater nation in LA. Atlantis starts on land and Oceania doesn't exist. Admittedly they're worse at getting into the pool that the other big land with water extras nation: Mictlan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 23:53
|
|
|
Atlantis doesn't start underwater, but if it's your typical one ocean map they'll start out right next to it and be a whole lot better at fighting underwater than you. I suppose you could make do with a Wyrm or one of those new aquatic Asian dragon pretenders. If you know you could get to the ocean quickly that may be worth doing, but you'd have to get your Ryujins up and running pretty drat quick to hold off against R'lyeh, Ermor, Atlantis or Mictlan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:07
|
|
|
Wouldn't the fact they're not StR nor terribly expensive pay off in a few turns though? Assuming we're not talking about small maps.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:08
|
|
|
Jomon doesn't get wyrm and can only get underwater with a dragon king or one of their heroes (or I guess one of their cheap h1?1s with a ring of water breathing and some summoned kappa). Dragon King is pure rear end against surface indies and isn't a fan of tougher underwater ones.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:12
|
|
|
The Moon Monster posted:Atlantis doesn't start underwater, but if it's your typical one ocean map they'll start out right next to it and be a whole lot better at fighting underwater than you. I suppose you could make do with a Wyrm or one of those new aquatic Asian dragon pretenders. If you know you could get to the ocean quickly that may be worth doing, but you'd have to get your Ryujins up and running pretty drat quick to hold off against R'lyeh, Ermor, Atlantis or Mictlan. Found the Asian dragons to be alright against indies myself, so long as you go for an attack -> fire x4 -> attack order
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:13
|
|
|
Don't blind expand with a dragon king, it won't end well even with awe.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:14
|
|
|
Any thoughts on the new Bandar Log? I'm interested in pretender design and late-game options, in particular. As I recall in vanilla Dom3 they were incredibly gemgen-dependent, and now gemgens don't exist; I'd also rather stay away from trying to break into blood because the last time I tried didn't go very well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
Caelum advice made the mid-game a lot easier, thanks! Is there any reason not to go for Blood Magic if you fine a province with a slave market? It seems like a free empowerment for a mage of your choice, and then a sanguine rod would get the ball rolling there wouldn't it?
Pomp fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Sep 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 04:02
|
|
|
Research points tend to be spread pretty thin as it is, and unless you've got national spells the real payoff comes at Blood 4. You're best off just using slaves from a single hunter-mage for forging. Maybe if you're expecting the game to last into year 7+, you'll see a payoff on that investment.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 04:51
|
|
|
This is my one and only main thread announcement of... YOUR HUMBLE MOTHERhttp://www.brainwrinkle.net/games/68 ===THIS GAME IS NOW FULL=== Newbie game Early Age 16 players or fewer This game is primarily for inexperienced players and will start right after launch. Here's the PGS post with a bit more info and a godawful banner: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3498140&pagenumber=39 wshngmchn fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Sep 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 05:04
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:Don't blind expand with a dragon king, it won't end well even with awe. Yeah they get murdered pretty easy unless you are careful. Once they have a little research they can do fine but until those buffs come online you can get hosed by undead/lances/massed xbows.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 05:48
|
|
|
Even with the buffs online you can get hosed by lances and mass crossbows. He's really not much of a dragon.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 06:29
|
|
|
Yeah T1 expand into the sea, not just wherever. Their breath attack plus punching, awe, and fear is enough to sort out pretty much anything underwater at Indie Strength 5. And then you get a lab up and do the prophetisation thing, etc. etc. As you say, on land the Eastern dragons have a tendency to get killed by crossbows and lances.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 08:12
|
|
|
My clever plan to recruit woodsman blowpipes to take out early elephants... foiled by the undisciplined tag.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 08:36
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:Even with the buffs online you can get hosed by lances and mass crossbows. He's really not much of a dragon. A lovely thematic pretender? This one will get special attention.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 11:44
|
|
|
This game is really hard, I've been toying against the AI (I really like the Dawn Map) and I am desperately trying to make Caelum work for me with a Virtue pretender but it just sucks  People here keep saying that only multiplayer is real fun though so how does it work exactly? What are average turn times?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 12:12
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:This game is really hard, I've been toying against the AI (I really like the Dawn Map) and I am desperately trying to make Caelum work for me with a Virtue pretender but it just sucks 24 hour periods generally but depending on timezone distribution and how busy people are the first few turns can go nice and fast, eventually the timer can be extended at the lategame to give more time or if people need it due to life events.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 12:19
|
|
|
amuayse posted:For EA, don't get lots of Eagle Kings. Recruit primarily Spire Horn archers and mammoths and you can mow through most indies. Have at least 2 mammoths per army. Make sure you put your mammoths off to the side. Have a few spearmen to make sure you aren't completely defenseless if you get bum rushed. Later in the game when it's always stormy, try bring some Tempest Warriors since they can fly in storms. I'd only recommend Yazads if you have a major bless. Iceclad are good, but they're only move 2.  I think maybe it would be better to listen to TheDemon than to you. Because maybe this advice is not very good. Thunder strike and orb lightning require a lot of research and eagle kings are awesome.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 12:35
|
|
|
builds character posted:
Also, Shimmering Fields isn't Evo 9, it's Evo 7, most of Caelum's infantry is terrible due to encumbrance/fatigue issues and using it is generally a bad idea, the yazatas are amazing even without a bless (especially when combined with False Horror spam and Panic from Wall Shakers for fear-stacking to make their Awe even better, and of course a Storm to ground everyone else), and a lot of other things. Also using only two mammoths in an army is not a great idea because, unless I've been lied to like with the animal and siege stuff, squads below a certain size get morale penalties or something, and mammoth morale is only average. But, yeah, that post has issues, to say the least. Evocation is definitely a good thing to rush though, since Thunder Strike, Storm, and Summon Storm Power turn all your Caelian Seraphs and High Seraphs into terrifying death machines, and even Spire Horn Seraphs can spam Lightning Bolt in a storm. You mages can even cast Aim on themselves before the storm goes up so they suck less at hitting their targets. (Wind Guide does the same with more research and less effort so you can get to the blasting sooner.) Caelum can get through the early and mid game solely by throwing lightning at anything that looks at it funny in many situations. Definitely want to pick up some things from other schools too, though. Demiurge4 posted:This game is really hard, I've been toying against the AI (I really like the Dawn Map) and I am desperately trying to make Caelum work for me with a Virtue pretender but it just sucks Besides the above, let's see. The Virtue is a great SC, even right out of the box, but unequipped, bad luck can and probably will kill her, and she's so costly you have to sacrifice quite a bit to get her. (Though if you do use her without items, at least have her cast Air Shield, plus other self-buffs when you get them.) Also, mammoth expansion is perfectly fine, so she isn't really giving you much and you're risking a lot using her. I recommend a pretender to get you some nice cross-paths (Air, Earth, and Astral is my favorite combination but others work too) and some scales (Order 3, Sloth 3, Cold 3, and a bit of Magic at the least) personally. Depending on the age, some things change as well. EA wants to leverage its Eagle Kings, which are cap-only, while MA has High Seraphs, who are a bit weaker but can be recruited everywhere so you'll have far more. Former might want a bless, while the latter has only the horrible Temple Guard to bless until it starts summoning yazatas. LA Caelum wants to crawl in a hole and die because it gives up things like Caelum's great Air access for middling Earth and Death while keeping the whole "troops overexert themselves and die" issue, among other issues. (I do not like LA Caelum, despite liking EA and the MA incarnation being my favorite nation in the game.) As for multiplayer, it's really fun, yes. Check out the PGS thread for more details, or get on IRC. Turns start at a day each usually(though they move forward immediately when everyone gets their turn in) and get extended when the game goes on as more and more needs to be done each turn. There's actually a newbie game starting soon (though Caelum is claimed, but while they're a good nation for learning battlemagic they aren't the best newbie nation anyway), so you have a few days to get in on that if you want. Edit: TL;DR version: Caelum needs decent scales and paths other than (or in addition to) Air more than it needs an early expansion SC. Also Thunder Strike rocks and get it as fast as you can. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Sep 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 12:59
|
|
|
builds character posted:
Well, there was a certain someone who used thunder strike to great effect. Then again, if you can move 50+ mage communions to completely outclass your competition, I guess research isn't a problem anymore.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:10
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Well, there was a certain someone who used thunder strike to great effect. Then again, if you can move 50+ mage communions to completely outclass your competition, I guess research isn't a problem anymore. I think he was saying that they require a lot of research, so you should recruit eagle kings to research it (and cast it once you have thunder strike). Might just be my reading though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:18
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:This game is really hard, I've been toying against the AI (I really like the Dawn Map) and I am desperately trying to make Caelum work for me with a Virtue pretender but it just sucks Most of their units are size 3, so you get less of them per 'square' (which makes their melee troops extra double bad, esp. since they fatigue out really quickly, too). As a result, you have to rely on your archers. But since your archers only have 9-damage shortbows, they're bad against heavier troops. To improve this (slightly), you can spend some research time on getting Wind Guide to make your legions of archers better, but this takes away your entirely precious research time which could (in fact really must) be used on Evocation and getting at least Conjuration 2 for Summon Storm Power, so that your A2W1 mages can cast Thunder Strike, and your Eagle Kings can do more casting without getting knackered out. To add insult to injury, Caelum also has a whole host of hypothetically useful bits of research that it just doesn't get access to without a Pretender or a very lucky indie province. Flaming Arrows would sure help your bowmen out, right? Welp, best get F2+ on a pretender. Literally all of their unique summons? (High) Astral Pretender only. Beast Summons? Pretender or N2 indie. Anything involving Earth magic? You'll really want an E2 caster to bootstrap you further up, which is a 2.5% chance on Eagle Kings. StR, cap-only Eagle Kings. Also, you now don't get tax income from unconnected provinces, so raiding is much less profitable. Caelum!
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:29
|
|
|
Build mammoths. Shoot lightning. Caelum.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 05:31 |
|
|
The most difficult part of playing Dominions 3/4 is getting motivated to do your turns when you're losing. Playing bad nations because you like their flavor makes this happen more often.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 13:47
|
|
