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Jedit posted:Classic Elric reading order: This is accurate but leaves out the later Elric stuff. Simplest thing to do is get the big "Tale of the Eternal Champion" omnibuses from the mid-90s; I think there are two Elric books. The only new ones are the "Dreamthief's Daughter" trilogy. Or you could get knee deep in Moorcock's confusing bibliography (quick: which book in Jedit's post is The Sleeping Sorceress? And how many Corums are there?) There are six bibliographies here... just remember to read Elric of Meliniboné first and Stormbringer last and you're halfway there.
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Sep 27, 2013 16:33
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House Louse posted:This is accurate but leaves out the later Elric stuff. Hence the word "classic". Regarding Abercrombie: I didn't even get through The Blade Itself before giving up.
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Sep 27, 2013 17:00
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Another is it worth continuing question. In this case, The Black Prism by Brent Weeks. I'm listening to the audiobook version from Graphic Audio and so far I'm a little bit less than 25% of the way through and it's already becoming a slog. The main problem I have is there are three points of view, of which two of them are incredibly annoying: 1) A teenager (15 I think) who gets put in a bad position but fits the perfect stereotype of the early age fantasy hero, that being a teenager whose mental capacity and maturity is about equal to that of an 8 year old. On top of that every single scene he's been invovled in is a constant repetition of "I can't believe I did that, I'm so stupid, I should have done this..." The only places that pattern diverges is when he doesn't get a chance to moan about his decision until the next scene, which then he does at the first available opportunity. 2) An adult whose every single scene involves him constantly repeating (internally as part of the narrative) that there is some big secret he wants to spill the beans on but absolutely refuses to do so in the opportunity given to him in every scene. Those things I mention happen quite literally, at least a couple times during each characters spotlight as the active point of view. Then there are tons of little details just building up, like the fact there was a huge war between POV #2 and #3, which I didn't mention, but there is only one vague explanation as to why the war came about and it explains nothing. Despite the fact that the big war is referenced fairly regularly by all the characters, and had a huge impact on the world, the only note about it's cause is a one-liner about how two people were born with a certain power when there has only been one in the past. The whole book is coming off like a murder mystery novel that has a disclaimer at the top of every page that you're reading a murder mystery novel so expect secrets we won't tell you about.
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Sep 27, 2013 18:04
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nessin posted:Another is it worth continuing question. In this case, The Black Prism by Brent Weeks. I'm listening to the audiobook version from Graphic Audio and so far I'm a little bit less than 25% of the way through and it's already becoming a slog. My roommate finished the series the other day and gushed about it for a while. I wouldn't gush, but it's solid escapist fantasy with over-the-top action scenes and some interesting buildups, alongside of the classic "everybody in this romance is loving retarded" stuff which leads to the romance dragging out to a ludicrous extent by the second or third book.
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Sep 27, 2013 18:43
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^ is the Night Angel trilogy by the same guy. I enjoyed Black Prism a lot less. I finished the first book but gave up a few chapters into the second, when The Prism guy (forgot his name  ) fights a sea monster. I asked my sister if the fight even came up again, but nope, it was just a opening boss fight to let him be super cool action guy. That and the unbearable woman who flips between 'Awesome Prism Man is an arrogant dick' and 'Oh he's so cool and edgy and I can't stay away~'.It feels a bit more mature (in writing, not content) but none of the variations on the standard fantasy plot were really enough to hook me, and by the end of book one nothing had come out to change that. The two Prisms could be interesting but it ended up as two nobles I didn't really care about having stabbed each other in the back. The fact that there's usually only ever one born just felt like an academic question about the setting's magic rather than a big mystery.
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Sep 27, 2013 19:05
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Strategic Tea posted:^ is the Night Angel trilogy by the same guy. I enjoyed Black Prism a lot less.  Sorry!Black Prism didn't engage me nearly as much for some reason. None of the color wight stuff was able to grab me nearly as much. They are done by the same author yeah.
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Sep 27, 2013 21:16
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coyo7e posted:OH poo poo you're right, I was talking about Night ANgel, not Black Prism. What weirded me out about that series is that each book got successively worse in all respects. In the first book there was some adult themes about sexuality that were handled in a way that wasn't cringeworthy. By the third book, you have the series' hot girl reminiscing about having sex with a horse.
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Sep 27, 2013 21:26
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BananaNutkins posted:By the third book, you have the series' hot girl reminiscing about having sex with a horse.
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Sep 27, 2013 21:57
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BananaNutkins posted:What weirded me out about that series is that each book got successively worse in all respects. In the first book there was some adult themes about sexuality that were handled in a way that wasn't cringeworthy. By the third book, you have the series' hot girl reminiscing about having sex with a horse.
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Sep 27, 2013 22:03
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KomradeX posted:What do people think of the Newbury and Hobbes series of Steampunk novels? I just started the first one and haven't gotten far into it. I was either going to start with that or Boneshaker and I flipped a coin and it came up for those. I just haven't really had the time to get deep into the book. It seems to be very...YA for lack of a better term and the inclusion of Zombies is kind of eye rolling but I don't mind that. I was just wondering what the Hivemind thought. I haven't read the Newbury and Hobbes books, so I can't compare, but I have read Boneshaker and Dreadnaught and I really liked them. I'm a little hesitant to full-bore recommend them, because I don't think they would be everyone's cup of tea, but the reasons I liked them was for their excellent female protagonists, adventurous plots, interesting alternate history Civil War-era setting and the fact that the author feels no need to shoehorn in romance where there's no need for it. They do have zombies in them also, but they take up blessedly little time in the context of the whole story so I didn't find it annoying.
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Sep 27, 2013 23:20
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I just finished the first Sirantha Jax novel (Grimspace) and while it was overall well-written, it seemed to have a breathless quality to it, like A Series of Unfortunate Events on speed. (My husband says it's melodramatic in the same way as a SyFy original movie, but agreed on the well-written). Does the series improve as the author gets more comfortable with her characters?
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Sep 27, 2013 23:43
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Lowly posted:I haven't read the Newbury and Hobbes books, so I can't compare, but I have read Boneshaker and Dreadnaught and I really liked them. I'm a little hesitant to full-bore recommend them, because I don't think they would be everyone's cup of tea, but the reasons I liked them was for their excellent female protagonists, adventurous plots, interesting alternate history Civil War-era setting and the fact that the author feels no need to shoehorn in romance where there's no need for it. They do have zombies in them also, but they take up blessedly little time in the context of the whole story so I didn't find it annoying. I'll second this. They're not my favorite books ever or anything, but they've been the only thing Steampunk I've legit enjoyed. And I do love that the zombies are just kinda there to eat people and be threatening without stealing the spotlight or focus of the book. It's clearly about the characters in a weird/wacky world instead of just about the world.
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Sep 28, 2013 00:23
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systran posted:Since the trilogy was so highly recommended, I kept trusting that the author couldn't possibly be dropping the ball as badly as it felt like, and I kept reading. Maybe one-third or halfway through the third book I realized that he indeed did not really know where he was going and was going leave a lot of stuff unresolved and half-baked. There were some unnatural character arcs, characters that never really developed, characters that were loving PAPER-THIN cartoons, and some very questionable plot structures. I liked the trilogy a lot but this is all true. 
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Sep 28, 2013 00:42
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Srice posted:Yeah that sentence really stuck out in my mind too. ^^^^ This. The entirety of the part I read was how badass this kid was, and how he was gonna stab people in the throat all the time, and he doesn't like being angry, cause it makes him angry. I'm all for batshit protagonists, but the writing in this book is just bad. It's literally written as "angry angsty kid being cool and angry and not taking crap off anyone cause he'll murder em, cause this kid is TOUGH!" and I need a bit more dimension to my books instead of "8th grade nerd's wish fulfillment fantasy cause he'll show those bullies one day, oh yes he will!". It's just not my cup o tea. Dude may be the biggest and awesomest evil version of Goku that the author could think of, but just being grimdark for sake of being grimdark is just retarded. I would not be surprised in the least if someone said "Oh yea, in book 2 there's a scene of a siege and they are catapulting babies into the wall cause rocks aren't working." Regarding the black prism series... it's, well, readable. I liked the magic system in there, but the main character continually, always, forever mentions how fat he is. It doesn't even matter if it's related to the scene he is in, or what he is doing, he's fat and the author likes to remind you that he is, as you might have learned from the other 500000 times it's mentioned, fat. I liked it because of the magic system, and the plot is vaguely interesting enough for me to finish the series, but the writing can be much, much better. I read the book though, I cannot imagine listening to it. That adds hours and hours to the amount of crap you'd have to put up with instead of just the 2 hours it takes to read the book. It's still leagues above the Night Angel trilogy though. God that was a pile of suck.
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Sep 28, 2013 02:24
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:This. The entirety of the part I read was how badass this kid was, and how he was gonna stab people in the throat all the time, and he doesn't like being angry, cause it makes him angry. I'm all for batshit protagonists, but the writing in this book is just bad. It's literally written as "angry angsty kid being cool and angry and not taking crap off anyone cause he'll murder em, cause this kid is TOUGH!" and I need a bit more dimension to my books instead of "8th grade nerd's wish fulfillment fantasy cause he'll show those bullies one day, oh yes he will!". So I like it, but I don't love it either. Although I like Jorg's muted character arc, the actual plot and setting don't really go anywhere interesting. Also, on violence the trilogy tries to have its cake and eat it too. While doing everything necessary to support my anti-Jorg reading, there's no question that in the action scenes it plays to the cheap seats and invites us to marvel at how Jorg's lack of inhibitions when it comes to violence constantly catch his more civilized enemies off guard. And I don't know if I agree with calling these books grimdark. To me, grim dark rubs your nose in the entrails, the disease, the pain, and the misery. All that is present in these books, but the narrative is so internal to Jorg that it's very muted. Jorg rarely has anything very bad happen to him personally, and since he's a sociopath who doesn't care about other people, he doesn't devote much space to what they're going through. And while I'm not a fan of grimdark in general, at its best it can say that unlike most fantasy it doesn't sugarcoat violence. I thought the violence in this trilogy was a little too sanitized by Jorg's perspective.
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Sep 28, 2013 04:49
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  (Not out 'till August 2014 though  )
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Sep 28, 2013 05:44
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YES
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Sep 28, 2013 05:47
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The Washington Post says "This is a sci-fi novel!" I hope he finds a new blurb for the cover.
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Sep 28, 2013 05:49
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He should use his best blurb. "Whenever I find my will to live becoming too strong, I read Peter Watts."
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Sep 28, 2013 05:56
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If anyone's interested, Watts posted a few extracts during its development: e: Ah, they're all under this category http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?cat=27 coffeetable fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 05:56
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coffeetable posted:
OH GOD OH GOD YES UGGGGHHHHHH
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Sep 28, 2013 08:36
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Zasze posted:Leviathan Wakes is actually a really cool bit of sci-fi... Research reveals that this was actually written by Gurm's man helper...
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Sep 28, 2013 11:33
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Danny Dravot posted:So, the wife recently played through The Witcher 2, and I decided to read up on the source material because it seemed to know what the hell it was doing. Apparently the novels were good enough, and rooted in Polish folklore enough, for the Polish Prime Minister to give them to the U.S. President as a gift. But no matter how many reviews I look up, no one seems to say definitively that they aren't just Polish R.A. Salvatore. Anyone familiar? They're not literary masterpieces, but head and shoulders above "D&D licensed novel"-level shlock. The basis is of course Tolkienesque fantasy cliches, but Sapkowski fucks around with them in a clever way, at least by 1990's standards. Most of the characters are strong, Geralt is a great protagonist, the prose is solid and fun (especially dialogue), and the political stuff is interesting and well-presented if you're into that. On the other hand, the plot meanders like hell, to the point of confusion and boredom in the final book, and the constant black humor and cynical fatalism get a bit try-hard at times. It's one of those series that you fall in love with as a teenager and don't regret it later, and it definitely did Good Things to my taste in books when I was younger, but it doesn't quite have the same magic for a decently read adult. Still an entirely worthwhile read. Please note that I read them in the original Polish, and from what I hear they lose a bunch in translation. Sapkowski is one of the most popular and influential fantasy authors throughout the Slavic world, but hasn't really broken out in the West despite the success of the games. There's a reason for that.
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Sep 28, 2013 12:41
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What's the general opinion of Thomas Disch? I read Camp Concentration and The Genocides in high school, and while I enjoyed them I don't know if they've stood the test of time.
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Sep 28, 2013 16:25
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I've only read some of his short stories, which were mostly very very good. (He's the only sf author I know of who's had a book written solely about one of his stories.) His reputation is very high; Wolfe and le Guin class. (The Science Fiction Encyclopaedia is king for questions like this, btw.) My will to live just became a bit too strong... I'm glad he didn't go with Dumbspeech as a title.
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Sep 28, 2013 17:40
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Charles Stross has a new Laundry story online at Tor. Equoid It's about unicorns.
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Sep 28, 2013 18:32
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Research reveals that this was actually written by Gurm's man helper... It's written by Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck, the latter being GRRM's assistant. Not exactly sure how his day job is important though. Hannibal Rex posted:Charles Stross has a new Laundry story online at Tor. Don't forget H.P. Lovecraft. Some terrifying unicorns. Napalm, it's the only way. Decius fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 18:34
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Guildencrantz posted:Please note that I read them in the original Polish, and from what I hear they lose a bunch in translation. Sapkowski is one of the most popular and influential fantasy authors throughout the Slavic world, but hasn't really broken out in the West despite the success of the games. There's a reason for that. But not a good reason. The English translations of Stanislaw Lem and Henryk Sienkiewicz are very good. If Kosciusko is available, hire him. If not just read his translation of With Fire and Sword
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Sep 28, 2013 18:44
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boneration posted:Is this an exaggeration/embellishment? I just finished Night Angel series, and was eyeing the Black Prism series, bu... No, it's real. Happens sometime after Vi reminisces about going to a festival dedicated to Nysos, the god of blood and semen (really), and not being able to turn down any man's sexual advances for a week. I wish I could find it for you but I don't have my books with me. Edit: Ah, in archives I found an older post I wrote on the books, and remember something disturbing. banananutkins posted:The prophet character has the most poorly handled redemption scene And certain elements of his fall from grace were simply ridiculous for the sake of being as shocking as possible...him raping a 13 year old in front of the girl's father because it was the right thing to do at the time politically due to some strange element of their culture...what? MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 21:59
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Guildencrantz posted:Please note that I read them in the original Polish, and from what I hear they lose a bunch in translation. Sapkowski is one of the most popular and influential fantasy authors throughout the Slavic world, but hasn't really broken out in the West despite the success of the games. There's a reason for that. I heard that of the games as well, and having read literature in the original and translated language I'm sure it's completely true. It's too bad, my primary motivation was to get a window into Polish folklore, but I'm sure it'll still be worthwhile. Too bad I didn't come across it when I was a teenager though!
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Sep 28, 2013 22:39
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I've been on the lookout lately for something I'm not 100% sure how to describe. Comparison wise I'm looking for more stuff like the Taltos series. Something with a core protagonist who isn't necessarily evil or good, but a solid middle ground, and isn't as weighty as Song of Ice and Fire or even something like The First Law series. Just getting real tired of the overly "good" heroes, and have given up on any kind of decent anti-hero, especially since I've been looking at a lot of books lately that have heroes that the author tries to continually present as middle of the road but end up in situations where they're always playing the knight in shining armor.
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Sep 29, 2013 09:30
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Tried Mieville? Lotta people don't like him because they feel he swallowed a dictionary, but the protagonist of The Scar is as middle of the road as you could hope to find in a fantasy novel.
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Sep 29, 2013 09:46
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nessin posted:I've been on the lookout lately for something I'm not 100% sure how to describe. Comparison wise I'm looking for more stuff like the Taltos series. Something with a core protagonist who isn't necessarily evil or good, but a solid middle ground, and isn't as weighty as Song of Ice and Fire or even something like The First Law series. Just getting real tired of the overly "good" heroes, and have given up on any kind of decent anti-hero, especially since I've been looking at a lot of books lately that have heroes that the author tries to continually present as middle of the road but end up in situations where they're always playing the knight in shining armor. Most people have by now, but read Locke Lamora? Third book in the set is due out soon too.
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Sep 29, 2013 09:56
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nessin posted:I've been on the lookout lately for something I'm not 100% sure how to describe. Comparison wise I'm looking for more stuff like the Taltos series. Something with a core protagonist who isn't necessarily evil or good, but a solid middle ground, and isn't as weighty as Song of Ice and Fire or even something like The First Law series. Just getting real tired of the overly "good" heroes, and have given up on any kind of decent anti-hero, especially since I've been looking at a lot of books lately that have heroes that the author tries to continually present as middle of the road but end up in situations where they're always playing the knight in shining armor. Anything by Richard C. Morgan. He pretty much only does the anti-hero thing.
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Sep 29, 2013 10:05
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nessin posted:I've been on the lookout lately for something I'm not 100% sure how to describe. Comparison wise I'm looking for more stuff like the Taltos series. Something with a core protagonist who isn't necessarily evil or good, but a solid middle ground, and isn't as weighty as Song of Ice and Fire or even something like The First Law series. Just getting real tired of the overly "good" heroes, and have given up on any kind of decent anti-hero, especially since I've been looking at a lot of books lately that have heroes that the author tries to continually present as middle of the road but end up in situations where they're always playing the knight in shining armor. This is a bit older but maybe look at Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman. The "bad guy" has to go on a quest with the "hero" and ends up being way more awesome than anyone else. Very Chaotic Neutral. It's a trilogy, but I've only read the first one, and the magic system was really cool.
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Sep 29, 2013 10:27
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:^^^^ I am going to take issue with this because you haven't even read the books at all and are going on what you picked up reading to page 15. That is stupid. That tone doesn't last, and in fact its used to contrast the rest of the book. That series is so much better than tons of stuff that gets recommended here all the time. I can see you have a serious problem with stereotype angsty violent wish fulfillment stuff but thats really not what this series is at all and its amazing you can have such a virulent opinion about a series that you haven't even read. It really bugs me when people parrot opinions without thinking and/or forms strong opinions with a complete lack of evidence. I really really liked the second book and the third was pretty good as well. Great adventure stories, really tight pacing, compelling mysteries, etc. I just finished the third book in the Dagger and Coin series by Daniel Abraham. I'm not his hugest fan but I would say this is his best effort so far. I wasn't able to finish the Abbadon's Gate series, couldn't get through the last book. I read all the Autumn/Spring/etc. novels as well and while decent, there was a certain flatness. I've read better but its a pretty good series. Play fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Sep 29, 2013 |
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Sep 29, 2013 16:09
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I am coming close to the end of Book 3 of The First Law trilogy. I read it a few years ago and I'm now doing the audio (drat good reader) with a friend. I LOVE this trilogy and the utter absence of knights in shining armor. Everyone is, well, complicated. Even though I read these, I'm still sitting on the edge of my seat as we spin from POV to POV. Magnificent. So, anything I say will come from that influence. I'm halfway through the ___ of Thorns, book 2. It's OK. OK enough. Maybe even just OK enough. So what? I can't read The First Law over and over. I remember after I read Altered Carbon, everything else seemed so frilly, even the 2 Takeshi books that followed. Well, Morgan can't write AC over and over either. His Land Fit For Heros I heartily recommend but you might want to wait for book 3 due out mid-2014. If you hate The First Law and/or Altered Carbon, you'll probably want to avoid my suggestions that follow: Neal Asher's Spatterjay books Gary Gibson's Shoal War and Final Days Victor Gischler's Go-Go Girls Of The Apocalypse Warren Hammond's KOP series John Locke's Donovan Creed series (not SF but highly imaginative) Philip Reeve's 7 Traction City books starting with Fever Crumb and ending at A Darkling Plain Michael Grant's Gone series
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Sep 29, 2013 17:37
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AreYouStillThere posted:This is a bit older but maybe look at Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman. The "bad guy" has to go on a quest with the "hero" and ends up being way more awesome than anyone else. Very Chaotic Neutral. It's a trilogy, but I've only read the first one, and the magic system was really cool. I got through the first book of Black Sun Rising but didn't follow through with the rest. I'd primarily read it just for that, but the "bad guy" ended up not being very bad or even all that neutral in the book. All of his "bad guy" nature came from rumors and history prior to the book, so while I liked the story in general I ended up hating that character in particular because it was just a constant stream of contradictions.
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Sep 30, 2013 02:27
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I finished the last part of Neal Asher's Owner Trilogy last week. Comparing it to his Polity series, the Owner series was much more gritty and brutal. Asher's signature AI/hacking and fast-paced space action is still there, although this series was much grimmer than any of his previous novels. Also he toned down on his Deus Ex Machina elements. Partly because there were no aliens, and everything bad that happened was a consequence of human actions. I'm actually quite appalled by some of the atrocities done in the series. It's kinda interesting how Asher can make twisted forms of environmentalism and world governments. I know Neal Asher seems to get a bad reputation around here, since it's not Space Communism, but for imaginative scifi-settings he knows his trade.
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Sep 30, 2013 07:50
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Cardiac posted:
I've only read the Agent Cormac books but I breezed through those in a couple of weeks and really enjoyed them. He does some fantastic worldbuilding, and as you mentioned the AI/hacking elements seemed really well done. I'll probably get round to the Owner trilogy soon enough, but the Amazon reviews didn't seem that great (not that it's really a big deal or anything).
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Sep 30, 2013 12:26
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