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Neurolimal posted:Sometimes when creating a character the costume editor won't make the character, you can tell when this will happen by the fact that costume packs you don't own will appear unlocked for you; this means save whatever costume you have so far and retry making a character. You might be able to get around this by just not using any of the supposed-to-be locked costume pieces, but I personally haven't messed with it too much. Ah man, thanks for the help. Seems that the editor didn't lock away the bird people costume pieces and I ended up using one of those without thinking. It's been so long I didn't realise I never got that part. Thank you very much!
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Sep 28, 2013 04:07
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So while CO patches I've been digging through the official forums and the wiki, looking at stuff, trying to at least start coming up with a build. I think I've settled on most of the powers I want, but I'm not really sure what super stats and talents and junk to take for a pet master type character. What I have so far: Particle Rifle Pulse Beam Rifle Support Drones Munitions Drones Attack Toys Medical Nanites Molecular Self-Assembly Inertial Dampening Field Energy Shield Orbital Cannon Just generally kind of sci-fi with some pet support and tankiness (IDF, nanites) and a couple of actual attacks. I'm thinking Intelligence as one stat? Then Presence maybe for the nanites, and MSA scales off of Int and Rec, right? That makes 3 super stats...
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Sep 28, 2013 04:43
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I'm not certain how good the munitions bots are as pets, I haven't had the power in years, but if I recall correctly, outside of using them in their turret forms, they kinda sucked. Also might be a good idea to go look up what slotted passive you want. I typically always end up taking something like Invulnerability because I kinda hate dying, you wanna pick up the slotted passive early.
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Sep 28, 2013 05:52
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Some adjustments to various numbers are planned and wow holy poo poo the crying is amazing. I think it's pretty fair to nerf dodge/avoid chance as they stand in some cases, e.g. my munitions character in offense mode is a better thank than nearly all the actual tanks I team with. Crit chance is pretty off the rails too, practically all my characters have at least 40% crit chance without trying particularly hard. What the hell, I have access to the public test server, I'll go have a look myself. e: Warlocke you want to bookmark these two links especially: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 06:38
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I couldn't make my alien dude as short as I wanted. Even at 4'10" by the scale he's almost as tall as NPC cops.   Also the silver armor doesn't really 'pop'. Might need to try a purplish hue or something.
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Sep 28, 2013 07:10
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WarLocke posted:I couldn't make my alien dude as short as I wanted. Even at 4'10" by the scale he's almost as tall as NPC cops. People in Millennium City are tiny, seriously.
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Sep 28, 2013 07:16
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WarLocke posted:I couldn't make my alien dude as short as I wanted. Even at 4'10" by the scale he's almost as tall as NPC cops. GOOD NEWS! An upcoming patch will allow shorter legs! (seriously)
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Sep 28, 2013 07:44
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Flesh Forge posted:GOOD NEWS! An upcoming patch will allow shorter legs! (seriously) Nice. Although I'm already thinking I should have mixed up his look instead of just using every costume bit from the retro pack. 
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Sep 28, 2013 07:46
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Flesh Forge posted:Some adjustments to various numbers are planned and wow holy poo poo the crying is amazing. I think it's pretty fair to nerf dodge/avoid chance as they stand in some cases, e.g. my munitions character in offense mode is a better thank than nearly all the actual tanks I team with. Crit chance is pretty off the rails too, practically all my characters have at least 40% crit chance without trying particularly hard. The crying is mostly justified, though. The change to dodge rating as it stands now completely misses the intended target and just makes it useless for everyone else. Because the uber dodge builds like the aforementioned munitions character aren't doing it with dodge rating, they're doing it with various powers that give flat buffs to dodge chance which aren't affected by diminishing returns at all. So changing the diminishing returns is pointless, what they need to do is make those flat buffs affected by them and then everything should balance out. I even posted as much in that thread but I doubt anyone from Cryptic is actually reading it. Edit: Not only that, but the changes to offense which look intended to be a buff to make it worth stacking offense rather than crit chance actually come out as an effective nerf too. Numbers are not Cryptic's strong point, seriously. General Maximus fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 07:48
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WarLocke posted:So while CO patches I've been digging through the official forums and the wiki, looking at stuff, trying to at least start coming up with a build. I think I've settled on most of the powers I want, but I'm not really sure what super stats and talents and junk to take for a pet master type character. A good rule of thumb for base-character building is to have a slotted passive, a form, a block, and maybe an active offense/defense if they fit with your theme. Munitions Drones are fine with a rank or two, and very satisfying to use, Support Drones are godsends and Attack toys are just fun. Inertial Dampening Field is a form, and is very, very, very good at making you shrug off swarms of baddies. Pulse Beam is a pretty fun maintain, and works well with crit-focused DPS builds, and MSA is really good if you're using a lot of powers with cooldowns. with Int/Presence/Rec you should have decently powerful pets and no huge energy concerns, but it also means you aren't buffing ranged or melee damage significantly. This isn't a problem if you're intending to go hard into pets fighting for you, but I just thought I should point it out. Also most goons prefer Recovery over Endurance when it comes to secondary superstats, and if you feel like you want to do more damage yourself, consider Dexterity, Ego, or both as superstats. Don't worry too much about loving up a character; not only is it pretty fast to reach Level 40, but you also get a retcon token at 40 as a gold member, so you can undo any mistakes you make along the way. EDIT: Also, just in case you decide to dabble outside of sci-fi, Sorcery makes a great complimentary powerset to pets, both because there's a metric fuckload of them in the set, and because of the aura passives and Radiant sigils that affect pets. Also if you want a more Little Grey-esque face, try out the Noseless head with the Alien pattern, alongside the Alien Eyes eye accessory and minimum chin width. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 07:54
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WarLocke posted:I couldn't make my alien dude as short as I wanted. Even at 4'10" by the scale he's almost as tall as NPC cops.  The use of glow colors to give a dramatic sheen to the armor is something I wish they used on other pieces.Neurolimal posted:EDIT: Also, just in case you decide to dabble outside of sci-fi, Sorcery makes a great complimentary powerset to pets, both because there's a metric fuckload of them in the set, and because of the aura passives and Radiant sigils that affect pets. Also if you want a more Little Grey-esque face, try out the Noseless head with the Alien pattern, alongside the Alien Eyes eye accessory and minimum chin width. Asimo fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 08:07
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General Maximus posted:The crying is mostly justified, though. The change to dodge rating as it stands now completely misses the intended target and just makes it useless for everyone else. I see that Quarry and Lead Tempest/Walk Softly remain really strong, because they apply raw dodge CHANCE rather than dodge RATING. I fully expect that they'll also be converting Lightning Reflexes and Way of the Warrior to work with dodge chance instead of rating, I think their goal is to have core powers be the bulk of your real defensive ability rather than stacking a lot of expensive gear together (which is good). I'm not sure exactly of the meaning of the change to Offense so I don't have any opinion there. e: worth noting, Defense is SIGNIFICANTLY better from what I can tell. Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 08:25
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quote:Additionally Offense now scales in a separate layer of damage bonus to make it more straight forward to understand.  I mean it's definitely a good idea and it'll make offense worth something instead of DRing with your super stats and passive, but simpler? Not really.
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Sep 28, 2013 09:50
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A good idea, yes. But I still think that rather than nerfing dodge and crit into the ground, they should've nerfed them only slightly and buffed offense and defense to make up for it. Not to mention you can still get both offense and defense well into heavy diminishing returns just with best defense and agressive stance scaling off each other, so ultimately it isn't going to change a thing. quote:I think their goal is to have core powers be the bulk of your real defensive ability rather than stacking a lot of expensive gear together (which is good). If that IS the goal then yeah, good idea. But the fact that crit/severity and offense, and dodge/avoid and defense should be roughly on par with each other remains. As it stands currently on live, both are out of balance in favor of crit and dodge respectively. On test with this change, crit and offense might be mostly alright but dodge and defense swings wildly in the other direction to the point that dodge is literally not worth having anymore unless you get something that gives a flat bonus. General Maximus fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 10:06
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An experiment in porting my old CoX Scrapper, Impossible Girl, to Champions: Still need to deal with the body sliders, but that can wait for tomorrow (later today). Also not sure how well Martial Arts + PFF is going to work.
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Sep 28, 2013 10:11
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PFF is commonly regarded as the worst defensive passive, yes. That costume's pretty good though, what gloves are those?
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Sep 28, 2013 10:18
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General Maximus posted:PFF is commonly regarded as the worst defensive passive, yes. That costume's pretty good though, what gloves are those? 'Armored Sleek' I think, os something similar. Does PFF still take damage before blocking? Please tell me at least that's been changed.
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Sep 28, 2013 10:22
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No, that's been changed. It was actually changed to fix the similar issue with IDF's damage absorption, I believe, but as far as I know everything now applies before damage is taken from PFF. Dodge, resistance, absorption all go first.
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Sep 28, 2013 10:47
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I'd like to build a force-field type character, but I am poo poo at building anything not directing related to making GBS threads out damage. I'd like to use PFF as a passive (yes, I know how bad it is) and force a primary focus for damage/support. Any one of you goons with build expertise wanna fashion something up that might be serviceable at 40? I've never been able to make a support toon like that work myself.
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Sep 28, 2013 13:50
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WarLocke posted:Oh man that reto sci-fi stuff is great! I'm thinking a big-forehead green martian dude with that bubble helmet. Make him tiny except for a huge head... I really like the look of my Mordo the Unstoppable character.  Of course you really don't need any new items to get a "great looking character". 
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Sep 28, 2013 15:05
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OneEightHundred posted:
I've seen some testing on it. Around like 300 offense, the tooltip says that you'll be getting around 11% more damage. And it actually will feel like 11% more damage. WarLocke posted:'Armored Sleek' I think, os something similar. PFF's now been put at the very bottom of the damage-mitigation ladder. Even dodges trigger on top of it. The changes make PFF most certainly a workable passive, but also an odd one, where traditional tactics of self-heal and such don't work nearly as well. Field Surge and massive recharge reduction are advisable.
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Sep 28, 2013 15:40
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Bluhman posted:PFF's now been put at the very bottom of the damage-mitigation ladder. Even dodges trigger on top of it. The changes make PFF most certainly a workable passive, but also an odd one, where traditional tactics of self-heal and such don't work nearly as well. Field Surge and massive recharge reduction are advisable. What increases PFF recharge? e: Derp, I guess you meant going heavy into Int for the general power recharge thing. Which might work with MSA, grab an active offense and more of the clicks in unarmed... WarLocke fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 28, 2013 |
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Sep 28, 2013 16:02
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Bluhman posted:I've seen some testing on it. Around like 300 offense, the tooltip says that you'll be getting around 11% more damage. And it actually will feel like 11% more damage. Oh I think I get it - it's 11% after all your other calculated damage, and not 11% of base damage (which you're never really shown and is a lot smaller than you tend to think it is)?
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Sep 28, 2013 17:11
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Correct. The difference between just multiplicative and base is that multiplicative will take the current amount of damage a move does, multiplies it by itself, plus the percentage, and that is the damage result. In contrast, base (what most specializations and toggle forms offer) will take the damage of a move prior to any other buffs being applied (which usually is a low value, like around 500 or so) multiply that by the percentage, and tack the result on to the end of the resulting damage. So, take the move Force Blast for example - according to that page, the base damage of this move on full charge is 574. That's without any superstats, extra equipment, at level 40. We'll say we have gotten ourselves geared up and the ability does around 2216 damage on full charge (hypothetically.) If we were to apply an 11% damage boost multiplicatively on that, we'd get this: code:code:
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Sep 28, 2013 17:32
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That is dumb, all modifiers should be figured in together. If you've got a 10% bonus from one thing and a 15% bonus from another the math should be 1 + (.1 + .15) = 1.25 damage. 
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Sep 28, 2013 17:36
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So, wait, what's gonna happen? Is this gonna make my Combat Training Dex Specialization actually worth it when I pump offense for crit chance?
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Sep 28, 2013 17:41
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Bluhman posted:PFF's now been put at the very bottom of the damage-mitigation ladder. Even dodges trigger on top of it. I'm trying to plan out a build but official forum threads are claiming IDF takes effect after PFF. Confirm/deny?
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Sep 28, 2013 17:45
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WarLocke posted:I'm trying to plan out a build but official forum threads are claiming IDF takes effect after PFF. Confirm/deny? I'm pretty certain that, as a rule, damage reduction effects (IDF, Unstoppable, Invulnerability) are the last thing to be calculated, to make certain they have a meaningful effect. BenRGamer posted:So, wait, what's gonna happen? Is it not already worth it? I think it is, I dunno.
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Sep 28, 2013 19:18
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WarLocke posted:That is dumb, all modifiers should be figured in together. If you've got a 10% bonus from one thing and a 15% bonus from another the math should be 1 + (.1 + .15) = 1.25 damage. That's how it works currently, though I believe there's some diminishing returns involved as well. Because loving everything has diminishing returns in this game.
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Sep 29, 2013 01:48
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It's Cryptic. Strange math is kind of their thing.
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Sep 29, 2013 02:13
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I know, I just never quite understood how they got that way. All the math in CoH was relatively simple and easy to understand, then everything in every subsequent game is weird diminishing returns and some things add while others multiply with no apparent difference between them, and percentages that aren't. That last one especially irritates me. In CoH, 60% resistance was exactly that. It meant you were taking only 40% damage from attacks. In CO and subsequent games, 60% resistance might actually be anything up to that depending on which incomprehensible diminishing returns setup it's using at the time. I miss when I could look at my character and not only see all the numbers but the numbers themselves made sense.
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Sep 29, 2013 10:25
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It's probably partly from the fact that CoH's easy simple math was laughably exploitable, like back at its release when damage resistance and dodge both stacked additively despite this resulting in exponential increases in survival, leading to characters potentially being invulnerable to entire maps worth of enemies simultaneously.  It's also a problem with "simple" addition of stats like that in general, which is a reason even big-name folks like Blizzard have diminishing return combat ratings in WoW so the character improvement from higher stats is linear. The trick though is to try and minimize the number of interacting stats to try and make things as transparent as possible, and Cryptic's never really been... good at that.(Also I'm fairly sure a lot of the Cryptic staff on ChampO were new, since a lot of them stayed behind with Paragon. Not certain how many offhand though.)
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Sep 29, 2013 10:32
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Asimo posted:(Also I'm fairly sure a lot of the Cryptic staff on ChampO were new, since a lot of them stayed behind with Paragon. Not certain how many offhand though.) Well, Paragon consisted of pretty much everyone who was working on CoH at the time except for Jack Emmert. So I'm pretty sure almost all of CO's team was new.
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Sep 29, 2013 15:23
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Hello, ladies. quote:PowerHouse http://powerhouse.nullware.com/ I actually ran out of appropriate powers to take, so there's plenty of wiggle room to optimize the build. Focus is on either spewing poison vomit everywhere for crowds of mooks, or frenzying yourself with Enrage via applying Bleeds to single tough dudes. Not really sure the best way to set up the spec stuff, just went for Offense boosts and energy efficiency in general.
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Sep 29, 2013 17:14
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General Maximus posted:That last one especially irritates me. In CoH, 60% resistance was exactly that. It meant you were taking only 40% damage from attacks. In CO and subsequent games, 60% resistance might actually be anything up to that depending on which incomprehensible diminishing returns setup it's using at the time. Resistance is actually pretty simple, it's just not explained to you anywhere ingame. The damage formula is: Damage Taken = Incoming Damage / (1 + [All your resistance% in decimal format]) So e.g. you have a total of 100% damage resistance to that type (very reasonable to obtain). You get hit for 1000 raw damage. How much damage do you take? Obviously not zero right? It's: 1000 / (1 + 100%) or 1000 / (1 + 1.0) or 1000 / 2 or, 500 damage. If you had that 100% total resistance, and your block gives 350% resistance (typical for a rank 3 block) how much would you take while blocking? 1000 / (1 + (100% + 350%)) or 1000 / (1 + (1.0 + 3.5)) or 1000 / (1 + 4.5) or 1000 / 5.5 or, 181.8 damage and change. So back to your original example, 60% resistance means incoming damage is divided by 1.6, or you actually resist about a third.
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Sep 29, 2013 19:30
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One simple way to conceptualize the above math is this: If you have 100% defense, your health lasts 100% longer (i.e. twice as long). Thought of that way, it's intuitive enough, and not hard to understand that the end result is that you're taking half damage.
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Sep 29, 2013 20:44
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The real confusing part there is that it's all in percents. If 60% Resistance means damage is divided by 1.6, then don't loving call it 60 percent resistance. Just say 60 Resistance! Calling it a percent is a flat-out lie.
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Sep 29, 2013 20:51
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Well it's just a way to represent a number, percent is a little odd but whatever. 60% is the same as 0.6 in a mathematical sense (and I'm a terrible mathematician).
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Sep 29, 2013 22:12
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kafziel posted:The real confusing part there is that it's all in percents. If 60% Resistance means damage is divided by 1.6, then don't loving call it 60 percent resistance. Just say 60 Resistance! Calling it a percent is a flat-out lie. I'd say it's still accurate as a percent in the "You take 60% longer to die" sense, though I do find it hard estimating anything that isn't a multiple of a hundred. Recharge time enhancements in City of Heroes worked the same way too.
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Sep 29, 2013 22:20
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Since my single-target damage was really lacking with Goonling, I tried moving around his stats tonight. Now he's a crit/bleed/enrage build.quote:PowerHouse http://powerhouse.nullware.com/ Defensively he's fairly idiot proof, you have Regeneration and if you start getting hurt block with Retaliation, with Resurgence for healing. Groups of mooks almost always (so far at least) die with a single application of Venomous Breath. The advantage on it means half the time they don't get to do anything. And Supernatural Power lets me use it pretty much constantly. Single hard targets is where the build is intended to come together. Bestial Fury has a 30% chance to proc Bleeds; Bleed procs generate Enrage stacks for me (via Aspect of the Bestial). Then, Massacre does 30% more damage to Bleeding targets. Specialization wise it's pretty much all about boosting my Offense rating and converting that into Critical Chance and Severity. The build's obviously not complete - I have 5 powers and a dozen advantage points to fill - but I would appreciate thoughts and/or advice on it.
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Sep 30, 2013 08:06
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