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Just finished Changes and I'm about to start on Ghost Story. I can't wait until can I read all that blacked out text. On the subject of Changes I have only this thought: "Butcher you motherfucker."
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Sep 26, 2013 02:24
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Masonity posted:With the whole parasite thing, I prefer this explanation someone posted here ages ago. I think I posted that like week or so after Cold Days came out. With any luck this may actually end up being the first time I called something first in regards to a book plot  Travic posted:Just finished Changes and I'm about to start on Ghost Story. I can't wait until can I read all that blacked out text. You could probably read most of the black text now without ruining anything since the majority of the spoilers regarding the parasite are plot points from older books. The CD/GS spoilers are pretty much just dissections of one line "hints" Butcher likes to drop into the character conversations, rather than discussion about major plot points like X character dies/ect.
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Sep 26, 2013 03:02
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Travic posted:Just finished Changes and I'm about to start on Ghost Story. I can't wait until can I read all that blacked out text. And just remember: Ghost Story was the one Butcher was late with.
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Sep 26, 2013 03:14
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As of the 22nd:Jim Butcher posted:I finished chapter 33 (of 45ish) last night. Gimme two more weeks to finish up. From Twitter. Definitely not coming out this year.
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Sep 28, 2013 05:33
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Travic posted:Just finished Changes and I'm about to start on Ghost Story. I can't wait until can I read all that blacked out text. Now Imagine waiting over a year to see what happens next... Yeah it was that bad.
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Sep 29, 2013 22:57
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Just finished Broken Homes. I wasn't a huge fan of the book right before it, but this one was great. It was pretty short though. I really wish he would have added on an extra ~50 pages dealing with the fallout of the surprise near the end of the book. To be relevant to the current conversation; I have nearly the same feelings towards aaronovitch as I did for butcher at the end of changes. Only this time I have to wait for the next book. Sucks.
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Sep 30, 2013 00:50
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So what was the deal with Susan putting that hit out on Harry in Changes? I'm assuming I missed some exposition somewhere.
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Sep 30, 2013 01:31
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The vampire couple put the hit out on Harry. The hitman thought Susan did it cause the vampire chick hosed with his mind.
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Sep 30, 2013 01:36
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Travic posted:So what was the deal with Susan putting that hit out on Harry in Changes? I'm assuming I missed some exposition somewhere. disclaimer, it's been awhile since my last read through, but I believe the idea was that the red court couple masqueraded as Susan to put out the hit edit: beaten by a more accurate explanation
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Sep 30, 2013 01:36
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Khizan posted:The vampire couple put the hit out on Harry. The hitman thought Susan did it cause the vampire chick hosed with his mind. Well, that's what Harry assumed, wrote off without any evidence for, and never followed up on. No way doing that could ever possibly come back and result in him getting stabbed in the rear end by an iron nail when it turns out that wasn't the case and said antagonist came back, with his own horde of angry pixies
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Sep 30, 2013 01:48
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Fried Chicken posted:Well, that's what Harry assumed, wrote off without any evidence for, and never followed up on. ... How the hell could Ace have impersonated Susan? Or am I totally misunderstanding you. Because that's what it appears you are saying there.
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Sep 30, 2013 04:17
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DJ_Ferret posted:... How the hell could Ace have impersonated Susan? Or am I totally misunderstanding you. Because that's what it appears you are saying there. I'm saying Harry makes dismissive assumptions about things, and they have a tendency to come back on him. See also - taking out the vampire lair in Blood Rites leading to blackmail in Dead Beat. This was another dismissive assumption. I expect it was a plot hook that Butcher may or may not bring back later
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Sep 30, 2013 14:46
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Fried Chicken posted:Well, that's what Harry assumed, wrote off without any evidence for, and never followed up on. No evidence for his assumption? have you been reading the same book? "You don’t look vampires in the eyes. Everyone knows that one. Even so, I’d had a couple of encounters with the stare of one of the Red Court and never had a problem shutting them out. It wasn’t even particularly difficult. But evidently, those vampires had been noobs. Ice blue and deep sea green swirled in my vision, and it was only at the very last instant that I realized what was happening, slamming closed the vaults of my mind, leaving only the hard, fortified places to attack, a castle of idea and memory, ready to withstand an assault." "If Susan wanted me dead, she wouldn’t really need to contract it out. A pretext to get me alone and another one to put us very close to each other would just about do it. And I’d never see that one coming. ..... Why hire someone who didn’t have better than even chances of pulling it off? That was more the kind of thing Esteban and Esmerelda would come up with. That worked a lot better. Esmerelda’s blue and green eyes could have made Stevie remember being hired by Mister Snuffleupagus, if that was what she wanted."
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Sep 30, 2013 19:44
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MasterFugu posted:No evidence for his assumption? have you been reading the same book? There's still no actual evidence there. It's a theory Dresden has that he never actually looks into. I'm not even saying I agree that it will come back to bite him, but Fried Chicken has a point. That was a classic Dresden assumption where he thinks he has it figured out and does no follow-up work on. To be fair, he was dealing with a lot at the end of that book, but still...it could be a plot point in the future. Butcher has done that before.
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Sep 30, 2013 20:07
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Fried Chicken posted:I'm saying Harry makes dismissive assumptions about things, and they have a tendency to come back on him. See also - taking out the vampire lair in Blood Rites leading to blackmail in Dead Beat. I actually almost forgot about it, but speaking of Dead Beat, at the end he lets Mavra leave with the word of Kemmler intact. Granted we haven't actually heard from Mavra for 7 or 8 books, but I doubt she's spent the time idle. Giving her the book is definitely going to come back and nail Harry at the worst possible moment.
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Sep 30, 2013 20:53
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:I actually almost forgot about it, but speaking of Dead Beat, at the end he lets Mavra leave with the word of Kemmler intact. Granted we haven't actually heard from Mavra for 7 or 8 books, but I doubt she's spent the time idle. Giving her the book is definitely going to come back and nail Harry at the worst possible moment.
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Sep 30, 2013 21:25
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MasterFugu posted:Guessing that's because Harry pretty much promised to destroy Mavra if she tried to get to him via other mortals again. Which basically just ensures that the next time she goes after Harry she'd want to be able to confirm a kill.
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Sep 30, 2013 21:39
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veekie posted:Which basically just ensures that the next time she goes after Harry she'd want to be able to confirm a kill.
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Sep 30, 2013 22:57
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I doubt she'd do it alone, more likely with a league of nasties who have a grudge with Harry. And those aren't exactly in short supply.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:08
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Maybe she'll be part of the gang that Nicodemus gathers in Skin Game?
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Sep 30, 2013 23:18
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^That would be an interesting idea. I'm not sure how it would work in execution though. I'm not sure if Harry and that person could work together. Even working with Nicodemeus I can kind of see, he came across pretty reasonable at times. And after all they have a common enemy. I also feel like Mavra should be the "big bad" or at least the first person who Harry sees that is a bad guy in a book. She has been a serious threat in the past.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:53
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MasterFugu posted:well, when Harry makes the threat, he isn't the winter knight, and he says that he'd have no hangups with using necromancy against the Black court. given that the black court is the least numerous vampire court, it doesn't really make sense for mavra to hat up now, when Harry could probably swat her down. Well if Necromancy can be turned against the black court, presumably it could be used to empower them as well. Also consider that Mavra is an ancient Sorceress skilled enough to have come out ahead every time Harry butts heads with her. There's a reason she specifically requested the Word of Kemler intact rather than destroyed, most likely because she wanted to study it. Given that since Dead Beat she's had the better part of a decade to research it uninterrupted, there's a pretty good chance she'll have powered up significantly by the next time we see her. Throw in some of that Nemesis changing things mojo and I wouldn't be surprised to see her at the head of a revived black court, empowered by the word of Kemler and Mavra's necromancy to have basically rewritten their character sheets (for lack of a better term)and ditched a lot of their weaknesses. Just some speculation though, no idea if it has any basis in Jim's plans.
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Oct 1, 2013 01:38
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packsmack posted:I'm not sure if Harry and that person could work together. He has no choice, is the thing. The Winter Mantle obeys Winter Law; I very much doubt that saying "No, I don't like her, so I'm not going to pay off this debt" is an option that will be available to him.
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Oct 1, 2013 02:47
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Khizan posted:He has no choice, is the thing. The Winter Mantle obeys Winter Law; I very much doubt that saying "No, I don't like her, so I'm not going to pay off this debt" is an option that will be available to him. Well, he does have a choice. Remaining vertical or not.
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Oct 1, 2013 02:51
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veekie posted:Well, he does have a choice. Remaining vertical or not. At least until Wizard Healing catches up to the damage.
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Oct 1, 2013 03:15
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Given that it's Harry we're talking about he'd have found brand new ways to get crippled by then.
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Oct 1, 2013 03:42
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I wonder if this will be the book where we finally get the big Dresden-Nicodemus throw down. I don't think either will be killed, but if both of them refuse to hold back it'll be awesome. Nicodemus, of course, should have figured out a way to avoid necktie doom by now... especially since he knows Dresden's gonna go for it first chance he gets.
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Oct 1, 2013 03:43
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Khizan posted:He has no choice, is the thing. The Winter Mantle obeys Winter Law; I very much doubt that saying "No, I don't like her, so I'm not going to pay off this debt" is an option that will be available to him. He doesn't have much of a choice, but she might. I highly doubt that Mab would send him off with any instructions that said he couldn't defend himself from being backstabbed. I just don't see these 2 people being able to co-exist. One of them might find a way to get around the restrictions placed upon them. I freely admit that i could be wrong and that I'm not the best at this kind of speculation.
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Oct 1, 2013 03:51
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Mab explicitly told him to get the job done, then get started on the backstabbing before Nicodemus does
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Oct 1, 2013 03:55
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packsmack posted:^That would be an interesting idea. I'm not sure how it would work in execution though. I'm not sure if Harry and that person could work together. Even working with Nicodemeus I can kind of see, he came across pretty reasonable at times. And after all they have a common enemy. I also feel like Mavra should be the "big bad" or at least the first person who Harry sees that is a bad guy in a book. She has been a serious threat in the past.
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Oct 1, 2013 04:31
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I don't really see how hurting the Winter Knight actually benefits her, considering the current one is probably going to be one of the better ones she'll ever have. During the discussion with Rashid, is he implying that he was once a Winter Knight, or is he suggesting that he might actually be Harry? And if he is Harry, wouldn't that suggest that Harry eventually learns how to time travel? What if Harry is The Merlin? And Odin? What if Harry can exist in the same timeline at multiple points within his own timeline at the same time? I can only hope.
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Oct 1, 2013 04:31
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"And if he is Harry, wouldn't that suggest that Harry eventually learns how to time travel?" Butcher said he's treating the laws of magic as a checklist, so...
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Oct 1, 2013 04:41
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packsmack posted:He doesn't have much of a choice, but she might. I highly doubt that Mab would send him off with any instructions that said he couldn't defend himself from being backstabbed. I just don't see these 2 people being able to co-exist. One of them might find a way to get around the restrictions placed upon them. I freely admit that i could be wrong and that I'm not the best at this kind of speculation. You mean you can't see Mavra being all smugly pleased that Dresden's being forced into alliance with her and sticking to the letter of the agreement just to spite him? (Do we really need to be spoiling all this stuff?)
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Oct 1, 2013 04:51
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I guess I can't see that situation lasting the whole book. I was also kind of hoping that mavra (unspoiled because it is pure speculation when she will show up again) would be her own villain and wouldn't be something tacked onto another book.
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Oct 1, 2013 05:00
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VanSandman posted:I wonder if this will be the book where we finally get the big Dresden-Nicodemus throw down. I don't think either will be killed, but if both of them refuse to hold back it'll be awesome. Nicodemus, of course, should have figured out a way to avoid necktie doom by now... especially since he knows Dresden's gonna go for it first chance he gets. Tuck it inside his shirt?
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Oct 1, 2013 09:07
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packsmack posted:I guess I can't see that situation lasting the whole book. I was also kind of hoping that mavra (unspoiled because it is pure speculation when she will show up again) would be her own villain and wouldn't be something tacked onto another book. Marvra as the main adversary in a book seems like the most likely option. If not the main adversary then at least she would have to be present in the background over the course of a few novels. I'm still furious at Dresden for giving up that book. All for the sake of Murphy keeping her job which she lost anyway because you can't really combat the forces of mystical malevolence on a part time basis. Seriously though, how does he reconcile handing a great power he does not fully understand to an already powerful amoral literal monster because if he doesn't his friend could lose her job, which she really super likes you guys. :vomit: It's not the only time Murphy got a strange pass regarding Marva either. In Blood Rites he stands around as Murphy takes the time to make an awkward appearance at her family reunion while children's lives are actively in danger. That familial derail literally took hours to deal with, hours in which a bunch of kids could have been consumed by monsters. Whenever Marva and Murphy get together Harry is a imbecile that needs to be punched in the face.
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Oct 1, 2013 09:21
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Marvra as the main adversary in a book seems like the most likely option. If not the main adversary then at least she would have to be present in the background over the course of a few novels. I'm still furious at Dresden for giving up that book. All for the sake of Murphy keeping her job which she lost anyway because you can't really combat the forces of mystical malevolence on a part time basis. Seriously though, how does he reconcile handing a great power he does not fully understand to an already powerful amoral literal monster because if he doesn't his friend could lose her job, which she really super likes you guys. :vomit: They didn't know Marva had the kids as hostages at the time. They only found them, plus the mine, when they were inside
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Oct 1, 2013 13:23
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It's been a while since I've read Dead Beat, but didn't he more-or-less come to the conclusion (which could well be erroneous, of course), that the Word of Kemmler wouldn't actually be all that useful to Mavra? There's no way, of course, that this doesn't come back to bite him (pun intended). I'm also not entirely convinced that it actually was Mavra in Dead Beat, though that's sheer guesswork. Mostly because it's fairly transparent that the point wasn't simply to acquire the Word for herself, it was to get Harry involved in the race for it. If she'd wanted a piece of Darkhallow for herself, she could have made a bunch of vampire lackeys and made a play for it directly (since, being reanimated corpses, Black Court vampires should have been just fine with the necromantic energies stirred up by the ritual, certainly no worse off than zombies or ghosts). Aiming Harry at them makes no sense unless she either (a) was completely unaware that anyone else was after the Word (which seems unlikely) or unless she specifically wanted the Darkhallow to be disrupted. Which doesn't sound much like Mavra's style at all, but does sound like, for example, Mab's, among other people. Consider, again, that it was all happening around Halloween, which has now been established as both a time when immortals are vulnerable, and when they go in disguise among mortals.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:25
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There is more to the Word of Kemmler than the Darkhallow though. Black vampire lore is among that.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:44
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docbeard posted:unless she specifically wanted the Darkhallow to be disrupted. Which doesn't sound much like Mavra's style at all Mavra wouldn't care about the loss of life or any little minor concerns like that, no. But she might totally have a reason to try and prevent a master necromancer from attaining godhood. And if the Word contains things about turning necromancy back against the Black Court, she might even totally have a reason why as to why she didn't want to get personally involved in it.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:05
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