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ReV VAdAUL posted:EDIT: Also, if different cultures lead to conflict why have the two largest conflicts in human history been fought between Anglo-Saxon empires?
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Sep 30, 2013 23:22
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Emanuel Collective posted:Am I missing something? Yes; he [Emden] is a Nazi.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:23
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If Emden is representative of modern fascists and neo-Nazis, I think I can rest easy, they won't be flattening the continent again any time this yuga.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:26
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weavernaut posted:I've honestly never encountered anyone both so ignorant and so certain that they were in the right. Not even online. Well, you are talking about someone who looks back at WWII and the Holocaust and says 'that was pretty good, let's have another. It'll make us feel more authentic and get back our lost National Stuff.'
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Sep 30, 2013 23:26
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weavernaut posted:If Emden is representative of modern fascists and neo-Nazis, I think I can rest easy, they won't be flattening the continent again any time this yuga. Unfortunately the fortunes of the fash aren't really based on their capacity for reasoned argument.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:28
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Protagorean posted:Yes; he [Emden] is a Nazi.  holy hell I did not see that post history. I'd be nice if Emden told us which "group" he belongs to so we can figure out when and where he would have been considered a subhuman cheap laborer who deserved death or incarceration. A surprisingly easy game! Yes, even for western europeans!
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Sep 30, 2013 23:33
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weavernaut posted:If Emden is representative of modern fascists and neo-Nazis, I think I can rest easy, they won't be flattening the continent again any time this yuga. I'm just a fellow traveler. I vote in my country's elections and talk to people about socialism when I get the chance. That's about the end of my political involvement.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:38
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Cerebral Bore posted:
They were still hanging around doing stuff though. Not to mention the party itself. Sorry, but you don't get to lie about how it all worked. And it's extraordinarily chidlish of you to call victim blaming on all this. Guess what buddy, the left of Weimar Germany was not a cowed sniveling wreck that did nothing, and to act like they were all hounded away well efore Hitler is straight up a-historical. And especially when people like you try to weave up this narrative that there was no left but the KPD, or that liberals did in the Republic when it was the straight conservative anti-liberal (in the sense that liberal democracy or democracy at all was viewed as incorrect) that did it.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:40
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Install Windows posted:They were still hanging around doing stuff though. Not to mention the party itself. Sorry, but you don't get to lie about how it all worked. "Left" is all a relative thing, and the KPD/SPD split is old as sin, and has clear historical reasoning. As far as why the Weimar fell, the SPD and the liberal parties (including Catholic centrists) had failed to give a purposeful outlet for anger at the especially lovely situation Germany was in economy (hyperinflation, reparations and then the great depression hits) while hyperinflation and reparations were eventually mitigated the memory of them were not. KPD and the SPD did try to defend themselves, but it is clear they were fighting a losing battle and there wasn't any way for the Weimar Republic to survive. The KPD didn't want to ally with the bourgeois parties, and the bourgeois parties didn't want to ally with them and Hitler only gained power from that division. It didn't help of course, there were plenty parts of the German right that didn't mind the Nazis that much compared to the KPD either.
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Oct 1, 2013 00:53
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By what is probably mostly coincidence, in elementary school I moved away from two different places and both times the only person liked and respected enough to keep in touch with happened to be half-black. I also hung out with First Nations people a lot, and partly as a result my son is half native. gently caress the haters, miscegenation forever.
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Oct 1, 2013 06:37
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:"Our money for our own." I also really love this idea of people not wanting to be with others who are not like them, so they subdivide into smaller and smaller groups until the Viennese go to war with the Tyroleans and the different cantons of Switzerland all annihilate each other in the only logical endgame for xenophobic idiocy. E.g. if someone says "tschüss" instead of "Grüß Gott" or "dreh" instead of "drei", they're subhuman filth and must be shot on sight.
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Oct 1, 2013 08:13
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Hodgepodge posted:By what is probably mostly coincidence, in elementary school I moved away from two different places and both times the only person liked and respected enough to keep in touch with happened to be half-black. Interbreeding is probably one of the best solutions to racism in the long term.
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Oct 1, 2013 08:23
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Interbreeding is probably one of the best solutions to racism in the long term. Serious answer: 1. Exposure to people you perceive as 'different' than you in situations of equal power distribution 2. Exposure to people in ways that makes you realise you are fundamentally the same Mere exposure/relations with people culturally identified as a different 'race/ethnicity' does not improve understanding.
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Oct 1, 2013 08:31
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Yeah, exposure in situations of equal power distribution is pretty key. No surprise that fascist spikes often occur during periods of financial/labor gently caress-ups. Even if Average Guy doesn't necessarily love the language/culture/look/whatever of the people down the street from him, he's probably not going to go out of his way to eject the person out of his country unless it's Scapegoating Time. Hmm should I make a full and difficult critique of the systemic and cultural failures that caused these financial problems or should I blame my funny-talking neighbors? Oh, poo poo, my undying love of cheap consumer goods and services is part of the problem? Well, then I'm definitely blaming my neighbors.
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Oct 1, 2013 08:41
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I would say that's more a sign that the contact needs to occur at times when people feel personally secure, rather than power needing to be equally distributed. Indeed, Average Guy and Average Immigrant are probably in more similar situations, power-wise, during times of economic upheaval than they are normally.
Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 08:52
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Jacobin posted:Serious answer: And that kind of exposure, given enough time, is going to result in two ethnic groups interbreeding until the one can't be told from the other. Look what happened to all the European ethnic groups in the US during the 20th century. It's either the solution to racism or what results when racism ends. Because we can't force people to breed as the state requires (which is a good thing if you're into individual liberties), the question becomes how to encourage the kinds of exposure you discuss. Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 09:01
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Grand Prize Winner posted:And that kind of exposure, given enough time, is going to result in two ethnic groups interbreeding until the one can't be told from the other. Look what happened to all the European ethnic groups in the US during the 20th century. It's either the solution to racism or what results when racism ends. Put aside this breeding idea for a moment, because it isn't necessary. Seeking this 'exposure' is why that simple idea of equality and why it has been so powerful to so many movements, if interpreted or applied differently. We don't need to worry about those differences (whether it be equality in philosophies of marxism or anarchism or liberalism) because we are commonly bound against Fascism, which invariably is rested on one 'peoples' being superior and worthy of dominating another.
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Oct 1, 2013 10:32
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Torrannor posted:I guess he plays to the old rivalry with the Ottoman Turks, when their armies nearly conquered Vienna and besieged the city several times? Being German I don't know if the old Habsburg-Ottoman enmity is still relevant or remembered in Austria. Or it is just a general revulsion to a majority Islamic city. As for this poster: I'm surprised no one realized it's literally just a Greek lying in his hammock collecting Austrian Euros. Sure, he's brown as gently caress compared to most Greeks, but that's hardly surprising is it?
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Oct 1, 2013 13:34
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Hey Emden would you care to spitball on how my city of Toronto is simultaneously one of the most multicultural cities on earth and possessing a crime rate (both violent and petty) that's bizarrely low for a city of its size? Does your "racial differences are the Most Important Thing" narrative just not hold or is there some sinister conspiracy to hide the real facts at play?
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Oct 1, 2013 17:31
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Hey Emden would you care to spitball on how my city of Toronto is simultaneously one of the most multicultural cities on earth and possessing a crime rate (both violent and petty) that's bizarrely low for a city of its size? Does your "racial differences are the Most Important Thing" narrative just not hold or is there some sinister conspiracy to hide the real facts at play? Facts don't matter, only image matters. If crime is high, it's because of immigrants. If crime is low, it's because government handouts keep immigrants fat and happy, reclining in a hammock made from their national flag.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:47
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A Buttery Pastry posted:As for this poster: Many of these people don't actually consider Greeks to be white/white enough so this is par for the course for this sort of racist bullshit.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:57
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YF-23 posted:Many of these people don't actually consider Greeks to be white/white enough so this is par for the course for this sort of racist bullshit.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:19
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I'm surprised no one realized it's literally just a Greek lying in his hammock collecting Austrian Euros. Sure, he's brown as gently caress compared to most Greeks, but that's hardly surprising is it? I thought at first it was supposed to be a Greek, but for some reason I got convinced that the hammock was actually a boat. YF-23 posted:Many of these people don't actually consider Greeks to be white/white enough so this is par for the course for this sort of racist bullshit. Well considering that people who look pretty much look similar Greeks are considered non-white because they are Muslim, this isn't all that surprising. If Greece becomes a poor, unstable nation they should pretty much expect to have their whiteness status revoked 
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Oct 1, 2013 18:46
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You guys should be thankful, Emden is just our constant trolling reminder that facism never left.
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Oct 1, 2013 19:06
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Austria had a general election the other day and the far right "Freedom party" secured 21.4% of the vote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24321045 this makes them the third largest party in the legislature and due to a grand coalition seemingly the official opposition. They're not third by much either with the two bigger parties getting 27% and 23% respectively. Happened before. They formed a government with conservatives, Austria was ruled well*, and the world didn't end. The Greens and SPO have been warning against the evil people in the FPO for 30 years now, and the gimmick has long lost any credibility. *Lefties obviously do not agree. Grand coalitions usually sit on their rear end and barely do a thing because they fear their constituents won't like it and the other party gets credit for it. quote:You'd have thought a far right party doing so well in Hitler's birthplace (and willing part of the Third Reich) would get more attention but as the old joke goes Austrians convinced the world Hitler was German and Mozart was Austrian. It's BEETHOVEN, not Mozart, you philistine! quote:Left" is all a relative thing, and the KPD/SPD split is old as sin, and has clear historical reasoning. As far as why the Weimar fell, the SPD and the liberal parties (including Catholic centrists) had failed to give a purposeful outlet for anger at the especially lovely situation Germany was in economy (hyperinflation, reparations and then the great depression hits) while hyperinflation and reparations were eventually mitigated the memory of them were not. KPD and the SPD did try to defend themselves, but it is clear they were fighting a losing battle and there wasn't any way for the Weimar Republic to survive. The KPD didn't want to ally with the bourgeois parties, and the bourgeois parties didn't want to ally with them and Hitler only gained power from that division. Well there's also the bit where Moscow told the KPD to go for the SPD, then ended up regretting that decision later. quote:I also really love this idea of people not wanting to be with others who are not like them, so they subdivide into smaller and smaller groups until the Viennese go to war with the Tyroleans Saying in Tyrol: If you're Tyrolean you are a human, if you're not you're an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 1, 2013 20:36
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Well, the indictment of the Golden Dawn spokesman and lawmaker Ilias Kasidiaris has been released. The articles under which he is charged, as translated by google:
Circulation of counterfeit currency Forgery Forgery and abuse of official stamps False decelerations Arson Arson in forests Flood Explosion Violations related to explosives Causing a shipwreck Poisoning water and food sources Disruption of rail, naval and aviation safety Murder Grievous bodily harm Abduction Slave trade Trafficking Abduction of minors Involuntary kidnapping Rape Abuse in lasciviousness Seduction of children Child pornography Sexual slavery Statutory rape with reward Aggravated robbery Embezzlement Robbery Extortion Fraud Computer fraud Facilitating the illegal entry or exit or the smuggling of third countries citizens Makes you wonder...
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Oct 1, 2013 20:59
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Grouchy Smurf posted:Well, the indictment of the Golden Dawn spokesman and lawmaker Ilias Kasidiaris has been released. The articles under which he is charged, as translated by google: Sheez, you'd think this guy was a Nazi or something.
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Oct 1, 2013 21:00
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If we persecute those who import child sex slaves we will just make martyrs out of sex slavers!
Miltank fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 21:06
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Is there some crime they didn't commit?
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Oct 1, 2013 21:18
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my dad posted:
Allegedly commit. The whole thing is very... Russian.
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Oct 1, 2013 21:33
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I didn't make the connection at first but Golden Dawn MP Giorgos Germenis was one of the arrested. He's the bassist in this band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc1-BfZ7Jnc
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Oct 1, 2013 21:43
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Riso posted:Allegedly commit. The whole thing is very... Russian.
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Oct 1, 2013 21:46
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Keep in mind that those are the indictments for the whole organization. It does not mean that Kasidiaris himself did all, or any fact any of those listed. He is being put to trail as a leading member of the organization. The "causing a shipwreck" is under article 277 of the penal code, "Whoever willingly causes the sinking or beaching of a ship shall be punished...". I don't know where the definition of the word ship lies, but I expect that something like a rawboat or fishing boat was involved in the event.
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Oct 1, 2013 22:01
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my dad posted:
It looks like they might not have committed barratry, but only because they don't ship legal cargoes. Also they haven't desecrated a graveyard (well, they probably have if they found a Jewish one, but they haven't been charged), committed treason, or had carnal knowledge of an animal.
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Oct 1, 2013 22:15
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I'd love to know if these arrests were already on the way before the recent murder. If they weren't its really dodgy. Did they just find out this stuff recently or were they sitting on this information for ages?
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Oct 1, 2013 22:34
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bpower posted:I'd love to know if these arrests were already on the way before the recent murder. If they weren't its really dodgy. Did they just find out this stuff recently or were they sitting on this information for ages? The hand of the state giveth and also taketh away, basically. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 22:45
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Keep in mind a lot of senior police got forced out in the crackdown. The GD supporters at the top are gone or in hiding, so the subordinates who didn't get anywhere previously can go hog wild.
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Oct 1, 2013 23:11
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I'd agree that the list of charges has a rather SCAF-like flavor...if we were talking about any other group.
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Oct 1, 2013 23:25
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Well authoritarian rightism is a step up from outright Nazism...man things aren't going real well are they long term.
Ardennes fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 23:31
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bpower posted:I'd love to know if these arrests were already on the way before the recent murder. If they weren't its really dodgy. Did they just find out this stuff recently or were they sitting on this information for ages? I don't know about the specific cases of the list, but the minister of public order just happened to send 32 reports on crimes by GD members committed over the past year during the outrage right after the murder. So I expect at least some of it was being sat on, how much I've no idea.
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Oct 1, 2013 23:35
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