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AlliedBiscuit posted:And the really elaborate initiations people think gang members do is just bizarre. Street gangs aren't bands of "Gentlemen, to evil!" types. Another issue is that people that spread these letters hear that gang violence is high in an area and don't realize that violence is mostly between gang members or between gang members and people living in lower-income housing in the inner city. The people that spread the letters are incredibly self-absorbed and as soon as you mention gang violence is high, they assume that means feral urban youths are leaving the city to terrorize their white flight communities.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:47
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LtStorm posted:Another issue is that people that spread these letters hear that gang violence is high in an area and don't realize that violence is mostly between gang members or between gang members and people living in lower-income housing in the inner city. The people that spread the letters are incredibly self-absorbed and as soon as you mention gang violence is high, they assume that means feral urban youths are leaving the city to terrorize their white flight communities. Do you know how often we get a Republican in Peach Trees?
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Oct 2, 2013 19:23
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I got into a debate about the debt ceiling with some facebook friends. Suddenly another friend brought this up. I am still trying to get info about this but I thought I would check with you guys first.quote:Kanyon, except we are not talking default. Current interest payments for the debt are about $395 billion, the total receipts are $2.7 Trillion. 14%, now thats a pretty big percentage to be paying in interest. But if we want to prioritize not defaulting, it seems like we can pay the interest and put some toward the principal, if we are willing to look hard at the problem. The debt ceiling is saying we want to continue spending 30% more than we take in, and when they get called on it, its about not defaulting. One could go the other way and say that the projections are known, why did you spend so much more than you had when you knew you had fixed payments? I mean a budget might help in these situations, which I think Congress is starting to figure out. I know that the issue of spending more than we take in can be taken care of through increasing tax revenue but I am looking for more specific issues as play here.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:26
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:I got into a debate about the debt ceiling with some facebook friends. Suddenly another friend brought this up. I am still trying to get info about this but I thought I would check with you guys first. Like almost everything involving the debt, tell your friend to stop being a dumbass and not confuse national and household budgets.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:33
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A) The GOP is not doing any of this because they give half a gently caress about the deficit, and have admitted as much. B) We have spent a hell of a lot of money on two pointless wars. C) The extreme cuts that would be necessary to make our levels of spending fall below our revenue coming in would destroy the economy and actually create a feedback effect where the revenues would fall dramatically as the economy crashes, and the economy would continue to crash more as we shut off services. D) Until very recently, investors were so eagerly buying up US Treasury bonds that the interest rates on them were reaching 0% and even going into the negatives, meaning borrowing money at those rates literally cost us nothing at all. E) Most people like your friend on Facebook somehow still think of national economies in a pre-capitalist mercantilist model that is based on Xenophon's Oeconomicus, a Socratic dialogue about managing a household that got warped into statecraft during the middle ages. A national economy and the budget of the largest economy in the world is not managed in remotely the same way as a single household. Honestly, students should not be taught how to balance their personal checkbook until they have passed a rigorous course in macroeconomics.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:42
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I think I'm just going to ask what they think socialism is, cause I'm pretty sure it isn't paid sick leave.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:49
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Forced busing, states' rights, socialism and all that stuff.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:54
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SpecialK2 posted:I think I'm just going to ask what they think socialism is, cause I'm pretty sure it isn't paid sick leave. Yes, I agree, we should mandate sick (and vacation) leave at a national level.
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Oct 2, 2013 20:17
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I don't know if this will be useful to anyone but it's helped me explain the debt ceiling to people. Shamelessly stole this for facebook use (without the cheeky Einstein line) and it's received a ton of "huh, that does sound dumb" responses. You have cracked the language of the facebookers. Show me your ways
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Oct 2, 2013 20:39
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nm posted:Yes, I agree, we should mandate sick (and vacation) leave at a national level. This, a thousand times this. It galls me when people think having government mandated benefits is such a terrible thing that would spell the end of "small businesses" everywhere. Show them this graph and ask them why every other industrialized country can do it but we can't, because reasons: 
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Oct 2, 2013 20:42
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TerminalSaint posted:The republicans are literally willing to let people die of preventable illnesses in order to look tough for their constituents. Clearly both sides are equally bad. Yeah, this is my problem with the "same thing both sides" argument. It's hard to convince someone that the Democrats are just as evil when they're not the ones who are pro-actively restrict their right to marriage, healthcare, or vote.
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Oct 2, 2013 20:54
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LtStorm posted:Another issue is that people that spread these letters hear that gang violence is high in an area and don't realize that violence is mostly between gang members or between gang members and people living in lower-income housing in the inner city. The people that spread the letters are incredibly self-absorbed and as soon as you mention gang violence is high, they assume that means feral urban youths are leaving the city to terrorize their white flight communities. I'm trying to imagine a public hearing where members of MS-13 and drug pushers from southeast DC demand better train connections, because it's such a pain in the rear end to get to the end of the Blue line from Southeast and Loudoun county.
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Oct 2, 2013 21:22
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Where is the info about the treasury bills interest rates? I mentioned it as a response to my previous interaction. Someone else responded asking whether it was a 1 month or three moth t bill. I am trying to figure out I this person is generally inquiring or if they are trying to lead this somewhere to point out how wrong I am.
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Oct 2, 2013 23:07
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RagnarokAngel posted:Just be aware the vast majority of his books are ghost-written. Could blow up in your face if you pick the wrong one. Yeah, Clancy was already having his books ghost-written all the way back in the 1980s. Larry Bond, a video game developer specializing in grognardy wargames who became an author specializing in masturbatory, obsessively-detailed modern war novels, got his start 'collaborating' with Tom Clancy on the novel 'Red Storm Rising'. Clancy's name is the only one on the cover, but it's very clear from reading the book and comparing it to Bond's later work that it was either entirely or almost entirely written by Bond, with at most limited input from Clancy himself. They 'collaborated' in the same way Clancy and Ubisoft 'collaborated' to make Rainbow Six games. The man was less an author and more a brand.
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Oct 2, 2013 23:08
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Hulk Krogan posted:I've seen a number of people pull that "The Senate won't even consider the House CRs" line, but isn't that uh...completely false. I mean yeah Reid is immediately moving to table them as they come but that still requires a vote, correct? If the Senate wanted to consider the CRs they could vote against tabling them, but they're not. Do I have that about right? What? No, it's the exact opposite. The Senate passed a CR and Dems in the House are trying to bring it to a vote, which can't happen because Boehner won't let it, see the Hastert Rule.
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Oct 2, 2013 23:21
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:Where is the info about the treasury bills interest rates? pre:Term IssueDate MaturityDate DiscRt%InvsRt% Price 7-DAY 10-03-2013 10-10-2013 0.030 0.030 99.999417 4-WEEK 10-03-2013 10-31-2013 0.120 0.122 99.990667 13-WEEK 10-03-2013 01-02-2014 0.010 0.010 99.997472 26-WEEK 10-03-2013 04-03-2014 0.040 0.041 99.979778 The last column is the price you buy at. You always sell at $100. So for a 13 week bought tomorrow, you'd have to pay $99.997472 to buy one bond. On January 2nd, you'll sell it back for $100. The interest rate is 0.01% I don't know how the Discount Rate works.
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Oct 3, 2013 00:06
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:http://www.treasurydirect.gov/RI/OFBills Thanks. Do you or anyone else have any idea why he might be asking it? The only thing I can think of is him complaining about how it is only for such a short time period.
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Oct 3, 2013 00:11
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:Thanks. Do you or anyone else have any idea why he might be asking it? The only thing I can think of is him complaining about how it is only for such a short time period. One thing I forgot to mention. Any bonds that say TIPS are going to also get a bonus equal to inflation. Here are some longer term ones: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/RI/OFNtebnd 5-YEAR TIPS 04-30-2013 04-15-2018 0.125 -1.311 107.820710 This sale was for a 5-year bond. They paid $107.82 for a bond that will mature at $100 (plus inflation) in 2018. I don't know what inflation is going to be for the next 5 years but I think the actual yield on this bond is going to be very close to zero.
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Oct 3, 2013 00:17
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Soviet Commubot posted:Literally every person at work today asked me "What the hell is wrong with your country?". Sometimes being the only American around sucks. This is amazing. I hope they apply this reasoning to the rest of their lives.  "That authoritarian mechanic was going on about how I need to change my oil every 7000 miles. Well it's been 7001 miles and nothing exploded so looks like my car doesn't need an oil change ever" 
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Oct 3, 2013 00:21
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"The Libertarian Homeschooler" sounds like the world's shittiest super villain.
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Oct 3, 2013 02:10
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nyquil hangover posted:"The Libertarian Homeschooler" sounds like the world's shittiest super villain. I wonder how many non-rightest homeschool? I haven't really heard of much outside of like Sovereign Citizens Militia types or Quiverfull/Anti-Science types.
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Oct 3, 2013 02:31
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A pretty decent chunk of the people I know were homeschooled by their hippie-ish and/or Mennonite parents, and they mostly had positive experiences with it (some hoping to be able to do it themselves for their kids). A couple of them lean a bit in to the anti-fluoride type stuff, but they're by-and-large normal, well-educated people.
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Oct 3, 2013 02:41
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VitalSigns posted:This is amazing. I hope they apply this reasoning to the rest of their lives. Didn't Obama crack the same kind of joke a couple days after he signed the ACA into law?
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Oct 3, 2013 02:48
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Oh god, so I stole nm's response because that was about as much as I wanted to commit to this whole thing initially. Well, it blew up... This is what I have right now, stream of consciousness. quote:Child labor, no overtime pay, company script, the literal killing of union members by government and private groups and other fun practices, were well established employment policies, as was slavery. Companies already have to deal with multiple levels of regulations when operating across even city and county lines, let alone state, or gasp, even national boundaries. My original point was laced with snark, I believe, as Roman seems to that paid sick leave should be roughly similar to what exists in the rest of the developed world, and that blind acceptance and adherence to American Exceptionalism should not create a worse working environment for American citizens than exists, on average in the rest of the developed world. Furthermore it seems like neither Rachel nor Chris understand what Socialism actually is. To the points of Phil Anthropist, on Keynesian economics, I would point to the situation of the UK as an example of what austerity measures cause. That country is in a much more precarious position, having only recently revised away a double dip recession. The revision I mentioned showed rather than a decrease of 0.1% no gain (ie 0.0% change from previous) this is hardly a ringing endorsement of austerity measures considering the fact that the US' GDP Growth rate has only been negative for one quarter since 2010, while the UK's has been negative 4 times in that same period. Keynesian economics are hardly dead, and are hardly the problem here. The fact that you believe the economy functions the way you state shows that you have little understanding of the reality of the situation, or the theory of Keynesian economics. Help me goons, on an unrelated noted "Phil Anthropist" is a lolbertarian. Social Fixer is amazing.
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Oct 3, 2013 02:48
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"I had to write a policy  " is some  poo poo, as someone who has to write and rewrite policies for a medical practice on a weekly basis.
Knight fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Oct 3, 2013 |
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Oct 3, 2013 03:00
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:I got into a debate about the debt ceiling with some facebook friends. Suddenly another friend brought this up. I am still trying to get info about this but I thought I would check with you guys first. Not that it's worthless entirely, but the debate about the interest rate on t-bills is actually a red herring in this discussion, because your friend doesn't understand the debt ceiling (or is being intentionally deceitful). The bolded statement is completely false. First, the debt ceiling is not "saying we want to continue spending..." because it has nothing to do with spending. Congress says it wants to continue spending when it passes bills that, er...require spending. Congress also controls how much money we have to spend by setting the tax rate. The debt ceiling is not involved in either of these. At this point, we are legally and constitutionally required to pay for the things that we voted to pay for. The "debt ceiling" just happens to be a law that attempts to regulate how we pay for these things. But it doesn't actually prevent Congress from spending, it just tends to put us in a situation where we have to do something unconstitutional like fail to carry out the laws of the land. This is the second point where your friend is wrong/dishonest. Debt ceiling debates are never about defaulting on debt, because that's essentially not possible. Instead, they're about how we get the money to follow the laws that we have agreed to through the democratic process. It's not our national debt that we're in danger of defaulting on, but rather the "debt" that we owe to anyone who has provided a good or service to the government, or to the American people who benefit from services that they are legally entitled to. Anyone who believes that workers should be paid for their labor, and that the United States government should keep its promises and abide by its own laws, should be angry about the debt ceiling. If you want to curtail spending, convince people to vote against spending. Don't wait until the bills have passed and then try to force the President to fail to execute them. ----- e: ^^^ That guy sure does offer a pretty good argument against States' Rights!  And also the concept of civic government!
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Oct 3, 2013 03:14
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A high school friend posted the "Fiscal Cliff" image where it has the US Tax revenue, national debt, etc knocked down to a "Home budget" by removing the zeroes. What's the proper response to something like that besides "you're an idiot"? Not to mention this guy said he was happy to vote for Obama last year and is now saying to impeach him and congress to hold them accountable. Haha its even got the "when the sewer backs up into your house, do you get it fixed or raise the roof?" line in it too.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:20
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In what other ways is the economy of a household like that of a country?
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Oct 3, 2013 03:25
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Ringo Star Get posted:A high school friend posted the "Fiscal Cliff" image where it has the US Tax revenue, national debt, etc knocked down to a "Home budget" by removing the zeroes. What's the proper response to something like that besides "you're an idiot"? This isn't a bad response. Washington Post posted:The U.S. federal government really does resemble your typical money-printing family that owns lots of tanks, operates a giant insurance conglomerate, can borrow money at extremely low rates, and is assumed to be immortal.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:25
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Ringo Star Get posted:A high school friend posted the "Fiscal Cliff" image where it has the US Tax revenue, national debt, etc knocked down to a "Home budget" by removing the zeroes. What's the proper response to something like that besides "you're an idiot"? Not to mention this guy said he was happy to vote for Obama last year and is now saying to impeach him and congress to hold them accountable. Nothing about how shameful it is for an individual to be in debt and that it doesn't matter if the economy is destroyed as long as the "morally right" thing is done?
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Oct 3, 2013 03:28
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Ringo Star Get posted:A high school friend posted the "Fiscal Cliff" image where it has the US Tax revenue, national debt, etc knocked down to a "Home budget" by removing the zeroes. What's the proper response to something like that besides "you're an idiot"? Not to mention this guy said he was happy to vote for Obama last year and is now saying to impeach him and congress to hold them accountable. "Okay, let's assume the government budget is like a household budget. I'll bite. Oh no, the America Family is spending more than it brings in, and has maxed out their line of credit! Mrs. America says they should just go to the bank and ask for an extension on the credit line, since they have good jobs and will be back in the black once this recession ends and Son America gets his job at the plant back, and the bank is offering them loans at 0% interest for being such good customers with such a great credit rating, but Mr. America is unconvinced. He has a better idea. In fact, he has a few better ideas. First, he says he's going to go to his boss and ask for a pay cut. You see, then maybe his boss can afford to hire more workers and maybe one of them will be another member of the America family. If not, then the America family can still learn a valuable lesson about living within their means! Or, of course, the boss could just keep the money, because he already has all the workers he needs for the time being. But hey, maybe he'll use that money to buy a new car, and Mr. America's brother owns a car dealership, so maybe he'll buy it from someone in the extended family and Mr. America will benefit from getting a better Christmas present. Next, he's going to call Daughter America and tell her that Mom and Dad can't afford to pay her way through college anymore. Sure, it means she won't be able to finish getting her degree and get a middle class job, but it's worth it to not spend that tuition cost anymore. Maybe when she gets a job at Burger King, her $7.50/hour can contribute back into the family budget and help pay off that loan! Then he's going to go have a serious chat with Son America and tell him that they can't afford to rebuild the wall of his bedroom, that collapsed when that big tree fell on it in the windstorm. Sure, they'll pay more in heating costs when winter comes and there's a risk the floor will collapse too, but the repairs would just cost too much for them to afford right now. And of course all the other rooms are full, so Son America can just keep sleeping in the bedroom without the wall for now. Mr. America would offer to put up a tarp across the hole, but, well, money's tight right now. It's a shame about his broken leg, too, but hey--he really should have woken up and gotten out of the way when the tree fell. Next on the agenda is what to do about Grandpa America. He's occupying the spare room ever since their nursing home got too expensive, but his medical bills are starting to pile up so Mr. America proposes they just stop paying them! He doesn't need that medicine for his pancreatic cancer anyway, it's all just a bunch of superstitious crap the doctors made up, and those extra dollars saved in doctor's visits and drugs will really make a dent in their monthly bills. Then there's Crazy Uncle America. It's really important that he gets a new gun to add to his giant well-maintained collection that he spends all day polishing and showing off to the neighbours. We have to keep those neighbours thinking we're still just as wealthy as we were twenty years ago, right? So Mr. America goes out and buys him a brand new rifle, even though all he wanted was a handgun. When Crazy Uncle America confesses that he wants to get his life in order and address his untreated mental illness, though, and maybe even go to college and get a degree so he can give back to the family? Nah, we can't afford that, Mr. America will shut him right down like a woman's uterus. Then there's Mrs. America. That bus pass of hers costs an extra $50 a month. She can just walk four hours to work and back each day instead. But there's still a shortfall in the budget, even after all these important savings! poo poo, I guess Mr. America had better just stop paying his mortgage, electricity, and water bills. Nothing bad ever happens if you just stop paying your bills, right?" vyelkin fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Oct 3, 2013 |
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Oct 3, 2013 03:40
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lol man i just thought it was cute. makes ya think huh? agree to disagree! democrats and republicans are all the same anyway!! (that's a good post, vyelkin. And Mornacle. I love (all) you guys. Not in a gay way though. Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
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Oct 3, 2013 04:13
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The government doesn't pay for things we need like a Good American Family does. 99% of the budget is spent on Obamaphones  e: The ACA is making conservatives stampede so far to the right, they're looping around to attack it from the left.  So right there "Why is Obama forcing the poor to pay for health care while insurance companies take the profit" and "Big companies are all cheats and liars who are above the law"  Also, a good dose of 
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Oct 3, 2013 |
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Oct 3, 2013 04:31
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A close friend made a post about gun control, and somehow this spiraled into lovely welfare queen anecdotes.  My reply kind of sucks, but his anecdote is just all over the place with stuff he likely made up that it's hard to approach the argument without wanting to just call him out on lying.
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Oct 3, 2013 05:49
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I want to know how everyone knows how much "welfare queens" get for various programs. "THIS LADY GETS $250 A MONTH FROM TANF". Or really any of that. Car payments from women's advocacy? Do people just make these numbers up (like they make up the rest of the stuff)?
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Oct 3, 2013 06:01
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miscellaneous14 posted:A close friend made a post about gun control, and somehow this spiraled into lovely welfare queen anecdotes. Before I even clicked the image, I felt - in some deep, dark part of my soul - that this was going to turn into a discussion on men's rights. It's like spider sense but for MRAs.
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Oct 3, 2013 06:05
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myron cope posted:I want to know how everyone knows how much "welfare queens" get for various programs. "THIS LADY GETS $250 A MONTH FROM TANF". Or really any of that. Car payments from women's advocacy? If I had to guess, it's an anecdote they heard from someone and assumed was correct, then decided to run with to confirm their biases regarding minorities getting "special treatment".
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Oct 3, 2013 06:08
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Dirty Job posted:Before I even clicked the image, I felt - in some deep, dark part of my soul - that this was going to turn into a discussion on men's rights. It's like spider sense but for MRAs. Sadly the X-Men have yet to recognize Shitlord Sense as a mutation.
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Oct 3, 2013 06:09
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Ringo Star Get posted:A high school friend posted the "Fiscal Cliff" image where it has the US Tax revenue, national debt, etc knocked down to a "Home budget" by removing the zeroes. What's the proper response to something like that besides "you're an idiot"? Not to mention this guy said he was happy to vote for Obama last year and is now saying to impeach him and congress to hold them accountable. Here's what I did  This was like the fourth time that guy has posted it in the last few months so it's not worth engaging otherwise.
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Oct 3, 2013 06:38
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VitalSigns posted:The ACA is making conservatives stampede so far to the right, they're looping around to attack it from the left. How do people think these ideas and not immediately go "well, I guess we should get rid of insurance companies then"? 
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Oct 3, 2013 06:42
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