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MassRafTer posted:Both tag partners are legally allowed in the ring for five seconds after a tag. In theory it is so the partner who is tagging out has time to leave the ring. In WWE they are also allowed one save, after that saves are a DQ but this is never talked about on TV. I need to re-watch that Matadores match then. I though they just...both got in the ring at one point, to do their finisher. Thanks all!
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Oct 2, 2013 16:07
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There's no point in sperging over wrestling rules because they just ignore them whenever.
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Oct 2, 2013 16:18
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Why cookie Rocket posted:I need to re-watch that Matadores match then. I though they just...both got in the ring at one point, to do their finisher. Thanks all! If they're setting up a cool spot, the ref will wait a really long time to start counting slowly. They let pretty much anything slide in tag matches if it's cool (see: every time one whole team knocks the whole other team out of the ring and then prances around for a bit).
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Oct 2, 2013 16:22
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I prefer Bryan Alvarez's idea where the the rules of combat sports are up to the discretion/moral code of the referee at hand.
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Oct 2, 2013 16:31
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Fang Blade Havoc posted:If they're setting up a cool spot, the ref will wait a really long time to start counting slowly. They let pretty much anything slide in tag matches if it's cool (see: every time one whole team knocks the whole other team out of the ring and then prances around for a bit). Referees count for the following: - Wrestler remaining in ring after tagging in partner (5) - Illegal choking/using rope for submission maneuver leverage (5) - Pinfalls (3) - Count out for when wrestlers leave the ring (10) - Arm drop(s) during submission maneuver (call for bell at 3 drops) - Count out for when both wrestlers are on the mat (10) - Count for when wrestler is down in a 'Last Man Standing' match (10) - Count out for when a wrestler stands on the turnbuckle - technically, he/she is outside the ring? (10) - Number of times a wrestler has tagged the corner turnbuckle consecutively during a strap/bullrope match (4) - Rope break for submission maneuver (5) - Corner Strikes (10) - Big E. Langston/King Kong Bundy pinfalls (5) Right? Am I missing anything? Red fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 2, 2013 |
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Oct 2, 2013 16:38
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Onmi posted:Ken made a move unsafe and possibly injuring someone huh? Stop the loving presses. I'm reminded of a story I think on the Rise and Fall of ECW or in Foley's first book about a chair shot, got the chair and it was the not-safe side and they still did the spot. And chairs are designed to be used one way only, so as to minimize injury, but they didn't just change sides because "It would look bad." This reminded me of something I learned when reading about the horribly depressing story of Chris Kanyon: http://www.theawl.com/2011/04/all-he-wanted-chris-kanyons-doomed-quest-to-be-wrestlings-first-openly-gay-star quote:Klucsarits didn’t return to WWE television until February 13, 2003. During a bizarre segment, Klucsarits emerged from a large box (or, better yet, a closet) dressed like Boy George and sang “Do You Really Want to Hurt Me?” to his old rival, The Undertaker, before attacking him. The Undertaker got the upper hand and annihilated Klucsarits with a steel chair; the final chair shot legitimately knocked him unconscious. Klucsarits later said that he was instructed by a WWE employee to “sing like a human being. http://concussioninc.net/?p=2794 quote:The chair shots start raining down in the last couple of minutes of the seven-minute clip. The last one by the Undertaker on Chris Kanyon’s head used the unforgiving back of the steel chair, rather than the seat. Here's the incident, with the nasty chair shot happening at 7:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3ipmwpMKF4 My question: What the gently caress? Isn't Undertaker supposed to be a pretty decent guy who wouldn't try to really hurt someone (like I mentioned earlier with Hogan and the tombstone)? Also, on the topic of wrestling moves, I was thinking of Chris Masters' "Master Lock", and wondered if the full nelson hold was ever really considered a "serious" move in pro wrestling. The only example I could find of it being considered dangerous/effective was an incident where a guy named Charles Olsen/Olson killed a dude with it: http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_hewitt_0803.html http://gotchvshack.blogspot.com/2007/12/charles-olsen.html http://www.thewrestlinggame.com/wrestling/articles/the_violent_side_of_wrestling_part_vii.asp
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Oct 2, 2013 16:40
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Nick_326 posted:My question: What the gently caress? Isn't Undertaker supposed to be a pretty decent guy who wouldn't try to really hurt someone (like I mentioned earlier with Hogan and the tombstone)? He definitely is, but that was 10 years ago. I want to believe that that was mostly down to the fact that that was before people really fathomed how dangerous and bad that poo poo is.
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Oct 2, 2013 16:57
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Nick_326 posted:
I think it was mostly cause if my dates are right, Taker was playing the Heel and in "Big Evil" mode at that time. I think it's one of those things where the Rock gives Foley a dozen chair shots. You get lost in the heat of the moment and do poo poo you know is bad. Now I could be wrong, but I like to believe the best about people, so I would rather take it as a lapse of judgement/getting into character than something malicious. EDIT: Oh here's a question. Did the truth ever come out on the Daniel Bryan Danielson Firing Re-Hiring when Nexus was just getting off the ground. Or are we still completely in the dark on what the hell was up with that? Onmi fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Oct 2, 2013 |
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Oct 2, 2013 17:06
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Red posted:Referees count for the following: Rope break for a submission (5 sec) Corner strikes on an opponent (10x) Big E pinfall (5 sec) Also for an LMS, a fall can be in the ring so you might not want to call it a countout.
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Oct 2, 2013 17:18
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Onmi posted:l. My understanding is that a sponsor was unhappy, so they fired him to please them.
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Oct 2, 2013 17:24
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Onmi posted:
A big rumor at the time was that it was at the urging of Mattel, when it was really more tied to Linda's Senate campaign.
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Oct 2, 2013 17:44
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e;bsk posted:My understanding is that a sponsor was unhappy, so they fired him to please them.
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Oct 2, 2013 17:45
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jscolon2.0 posted:Rope break for a submission (5 sec) Good call. I also added using the rope for leverage. I really want to say I've seen guys use the rope to anchor an abdominal stretch, and get it for a 5-count, but then the ref has also discovered guys cheating with it, and forced them to break entirely. Which is it?
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Oct 2, 2013 17:47
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I've seen it both ways. It seems to be, usually, if the ref can see him grab the ropes then they do the 5-count. If they do it while the ref isn't looking and then the ref sees it, it's an immediate break. At least, that's what my fuzzy memory tells me.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:00
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Red posted:I also added using the rope for leverage. I really want to say I've seen guys use the rope to anchor an abdominal stretch, and get it for a 5-count, but then the ref has also discovered guys cheating with it, and forced them to break entirely. Which is it? Well, Tajiri used the ropes for the Tarantula, and in WWE, there was a 5 count, because it technically counts as a rope break.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:00
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Q_res posted:I've seen it both ways. It seems to be, usually, if the ref can see him grab the ropes then they do the 5-count. If they do it while the ref isn't looking and then the ref sees it, it's an immediate break. At least, that's what my fuzzy memory tells me. That seems right to me. I feel like I watched so many matches when I was younger with Irwin R. Schyster doing the abdominal stretch with the ropes for help, and the ref gave him 5. Later on, when IRS joined DiBiase to create Money, Inc., he would instead hold on to DiBiase for leverage behind the referee's back. When he got caught, the ref forced him to break.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:06
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SpaceWolfPurrp posted:I prefer Bryan Alvarez's idea where the the rules of combat sports are up to the discretion/moral code of the referee at hand. this is literally true in MMA
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Oct 2, 2013 18:16
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I feel like I've seen refs start counting when a tag team member enters without tagging in. As if they have a five or ten count to get out.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:20
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Red posted:Good call. If your using the ropes for leverage on submission holds it's up to the ref's disgression. They can either give them the 5-count DQ or force a break but can't persecute the offense beyond that.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:34
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:If your using the ropes for leverage on submission holds it's up to the ref's disgression. They can either give them the 5-count DQ or force a break but can't persecute the offense beyond that. Discretion is a big part of it. You often see count outs going for outside the ring stuff until the ref decides to herd them back in. It's not that different than an NFL referee allowing a certain amount of contact at the ball snap, or a certain amount of holding by the offensive line. You allow a little chaos, because it's acceptable, and as long as you're consistent, it's not an issue.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:37
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Fauxhawk Express posted:A big rumor at the time was that it was at the urging of Mattel, when it was really more tied to Linda's Senate campaign. It had nothing to do with her campaign.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:39
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Danielson was also never off the WWE payroll so you can make your own interpretations as to whether Vince was working the toy company there.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:41
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MassRafTer posted:It had nothing to do with her campaign. Really? My fault. I could have sworn it did.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:42
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jeffersonlives posted:Danielson was also never off the WWE payroll so you can make your own interpretations as to whether Vince was working the toy company there. I was going to question how that was possible/legal, but realized Matt Hardy likely did that during the Edge stuff, and he was taking indy bookings. Guys often do indy stuff while on a WWE contract, too - think about the guys doing memorial shows for Pillman, for example, or Gangrel doing a show in Puerto Rico (in which the WWF had very strict guidelines over his usage and inability to job).
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Oct 2, 2013 18:45
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Red posted:I was going to question how that was possible/legal, but realized Matt Hardy likely did that during the Edge stuff, and he was taking indy bookings. I think he means that Danielson was hired back before his 90 day no compete ended.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:50
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Red posted:I was going to question how that was possible/legal, but realized Matt Hardy likely did that during the Edge stuff, and he was taking indy bookings. WWE offers most-to-all fired wrestlers/on-screen people what amounts to a 90 day temporary contract where WWE still pays you something resembling your prior salary and you can take non-televised indy bookings as long as you agree to stay off TV and PPV. This is typically referred to as "WWE's non-compete" or something of that nature, but it's not an actual non-compete clause (because WWE has no plausible legal reason to hold fired wrestlers under a real non-compete). Almost nobody is stupid enough to turn down this free money, Kurt Angle excepted. Danielson was "rehired" before his "non-compete" expired, which has led to the theory that Vince never intended to release him in the first place, only to take him off television for a couple months to let the heat die down, and the release was just working the toy company.
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Oct 2, 2013 18:50
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And we thank god every day that Danielson was disassociated with The Nexus immediately after they debuted
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Oct 2, 2013 19:20
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Whether or not his quick return was planned at the time of his dismissal, it's interesting that Vince was apparently high enough on Danielson to bring him back so soon after incurring the wrath of a major sponsor. It's hardly like he was being pushed as a major star on NXT. As far as the guy who received the big push during and immediately after NXT, what's with Barrett? Haven't seen him in weeks. Is he hurt or simply lost in creative limbo?
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Oct 2, 2013 19:28
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Thauros posted:Whether or not his quick return was planned at the time of his dismissal, it's interesting that Vince was apparently high enough on Danielson to bring him back so soon after incurring the wrath of a major sponsor. It's hardly like he was being pushed as a major star on NXT. Creative has nothing for him.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:31
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VogeGandire posted:Creative has nothing for him. Just to add to this, initially he was off TV getting some work visa issues sorted, but now there are rumors here and there saying he's being "repackaged" for whatever that's worth.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:33
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I miss you Wade. He got a great series of matches with Bryan and then *pff*. Visa issues shmisa issues.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:37
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Just to add to this, initially he was off TV getting some work visa issues sorted, but now there are rumors here and there saying he's being "repackaged" for whatever that's worth. He's been seen on a bunch of internet segments doing mini 'pipe bombs' on other wrestlers using the name 'Bad News Barrett'. I don't know how that translates to a gimmick exactly but there you go. I'm sorry for linking to Cageside http://www.cagesideseats.com/videos/2013/8/30/4677678/video-bad-news-barrett-is-actually-an-awesome-gimmick
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Oct 2, 2013 19:46
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Red posted:I was going to question how that was possible/legal, but realized Matt Hardy likely did that during the Edge stuff, and he was taking indy bookings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=d7xsmJzJ6hM
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Oct 2, 2013 19:57
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jeffersonlives posted:Danielson was "rehired" before his "non-compete" expired, which has led to the theory that Vince never intended to release him in the first place, only to take him off television for a couple months to let the heat die down, and the release was just working the toy company. The only thing is I believe he took a bunch of Indie dates he had to cancel, as oppose to when that road agent had Miz interrupt the Anthem and got fired where he didn't do anything until he got the call to come back.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:21
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LordPants posted:The only thing is I believe he took a bunch of Indie dates he had to cancel, as oppose to when that road agent had Miz interrupt the Anthem and got fired where he didn't do anything until he got the call to come back. Finlay stayed on the Independants and worked ROH and other federations during his release from WWE. Danielson didn't cancel any of his dates, and continued to work them after re-debuting with WWE.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:25
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John Cena posted:Finlay stayed on the Independants and worked ROH and other federations during his release from WWE. Danielson didn't cancel any of his dates, and continued to work them after re-debuting with WWE. He had to cancel several dates that conflicted with his WWE schedule. Him canceling his date with Whipwreck's fed was the big tip off he was definitely doing SS.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:41
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MassRafTer posted:He had to cancel several dates that conflicted with his WWE schedule. Him canceling his date with Whipwreck's fed was the big tip off he was definitely doing SS. There was a story being floated though, that Vince supposedly was putting him over because he insisted on doing as many as of his indy dates as he could and Vince liked his work ethic.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:44
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MassRafTer posted:He had to cancel several dates that conflicted with his WWE schedule. Him canceling his date with Whipwreck's fed was the big tip off he was definitely doing SS. If memory serves I don't think he actually cancelled anything, he only rescheduled a small handful that had conflicts (and it was a suspiciously small number that conflicted with WWE obligations).
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Oct 3, 2013 03:45
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jeffersonlives posted:If memory serves I don't think he actually cancelled anything, he only rescheduled a small handful that had conflicts (and it was a suspiciously small number that conflicted with WWE obligations). He did some after he returned but I think there were 2-3 he could not do.
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Oct 3, 2013 03:48
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jeffersonlives posted:If memory serves I don't think he actually cancelled anything, he only rescheduled a small handful that had conflicts (and it was a suspiciously small number that conflicted with WWE obligations). Yeah, and WWE's been fairly good about letting talent make up big commitments like that after bringing someone back. Actually, wasn't Matt Hardy legit fired briefly during the Edge debacle, and they let him finish up his ROH dates even after re-signing? And then there was the whole palava with Punk doing an appearance while in OVW. (He asked an agent, I think Dreamer, agent said it was cool. Office found out, got mad at the agent, but Punk still got to do the show, as I recall.)
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Oct 3, 2013 03:50
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