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TheStampede posted:I don't see how being (super)human precludes his genetics from being a viable blueprint for other (super)humans. They could theoretically just be basing the Grey Knights genetic information of of his. My understanding of the gene-seed is that it alters the biology of the host to allow acceptance of the rest of the Astartes modifications, which I would assume (I'm no geneticist) is done with some type of gene therapy. Atlest, that's what I found when looking it up on Lexicanum. Anyways, take the big E's genes, pump them into a human along with some 40k tech and, voila! incorruptible super Aatartes. I'm saying that the fake technobabble explanation that exists is actually relatively sophisticated beyond just "magic gene therapy." Namely that the gene-seed is a series of biologically engineered organs which symbiotically alter the normal hormonal and metabolic make-up of the body in addition to producing and maintaining new organ structures and cell types that do not exist in an normal human. This is probably mostly by accident because the fluff originates from before "genetics blah blah" became an acceptable handwavy sci-fi tech explanation, and I'm glad for it because as someone with a background in biology I usually am irritated by that particular brand of technobabble (regardless of whether it actually matters to the rest of the ficiton - it doesnt). The primarchs are unusual in that they're supposedly entirely man-made creatures with custom-written genomes derived by heavily modifying various original sets of human genes (including perhaps portions of the Emperor's genome as well as various bits taken from across humanity), and then grown from single cells in a laboratory. It's also implied that what makes the primarchs special is not only their physical incarnation but also that there's warp sorcery bound into them, possibly even by granting them a portion of the emperor's own soul. Without this magic juice, they would merely be giant super-human creatures - possibly this is how the custodes are created - and that this is why they're irreplaceable once they're eventually lost. The Space Marines then may have been created by modifying the primarch genomes to create a set of cell lines each which can be cultured into discrete implants which, when implanted in a human body, can make them physically similar to the primarchs through technology, though without the massive magic power borne by the actual primarchs. Big Willy Style posted:The Emperors Gift really does lay it out pretty explicitly. The grey knights are made from the emperors gene seed. It doesn't lay it out explicitly at all. It's entirely implicit. The line you're talking about is: quote:Perhaps they considered that their right, though in truth we did them a great honour. They were genetic thinbloods; their gene-seed formed from the flesh and blood of the Emperor’s son, Leman Russ. Our gene-seed came from a more direct, purer source. We didn’t call it the Emperor’s Gift as a jest.
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Oct 4, 2013 21:38
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Fried Chicken posted:I'm only 2 chapters into Unremembered Empire but it has some suggestions about the Emperor's plan and the Primarchs as well. Ugh why do I have to be flat broke right now
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Oct 4, 2013 21:42
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Cream_Filling posted:The primarchs are unusual in that they're supposedly entirely man-made creatures with custom-written genomes derived by heavily modifying various original sets of human genes (including perhaps portions of the Emperor's genome as well as various bits taken from across humanity), and then grown from single cells in a laboratory. Whats to say the Primarch genomes are entirely derived from the Emperor or human genes? Couldn't genes from some other organisms have been thrown in there? Would certainly explain some of the more outlandish traits like spitting acid or randomly growing claws. Edit: Though yeah, you can always say Chaos did it.
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Oct 4, 2013 22:44
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There's a STRONG implication that Russ has some wolf or dog DNA involved. Similar things for a few others too from memory, particularly Sanguinius and Corax.
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Oct 4, 2013 22:55
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Fatty posted:Whats to say the Primarch genomes are entirely derived from the Emperor or human genes? Couldn't genes from some other organisms have been thrown in there? Would certainly explain some of the more outlandish traits like spitting acid or randomly growing claws. Russ' geneseed explicitly had canid DNA in it. Probably true for the others as well.
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Oct 4, 2013 22:56
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A little late to the discussion, but Garro et al being the precursor to the Grey Knights (and likely the first Grand Masters) does not make the Grey Knights genetically related to the traitor legions. To found a chapter/legion you'd need vast quantities of geneseed for the new recruits, and those were provided by Malcador/Big E along with other necessary infrastructure when the fledging chapter was installed on Titan.thespaceinvader posted:There's a STRONG implication that Russ has some wolf or dog DNA involved. Similar things for a few others too from memory, particularly Sanguinius and Corax. VanSandman posted:Russ' geneseed explicitly had canid DNA in it. Probably true for the others as well. Wait, what? Where is this stated or implied?
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Oct 4, 2013 23:11
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I'm fairly sure it comes up in Battle for the Fang.
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Oct 4, 2013 23:24
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The wulfen mutation results from geneseed interaction with the canis helix, which is genetic engineering the first fenrisian settlers did on themselves to adapt to the deathworld. It has nothing to do with Russ or the SW geneseed itself.
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Oct 4, 2013 23:51
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VanSandman posted:Ugh why do I have to be flat broke right now Yeah sorry, usually I'd rip the DRM out and be all faux clever about "come to IRC" but that whole set up is on my PC, not laptop. I wrote the following with no spoilers, but I'm going to black it out just in case anyone likes going in totally blind, even about theme and characterization and not just plot. Really interesting characterization so far, some hints about the greater background of 40k (Webway and Primarchs), but overwhelmingly it is focused on Guilliman and his background. It really humanizes him, more so than Know No Fear. But I'm not certain that is actually a good thing; in KNF he was still a distant demigod, but one who would laugh and joke, rage and curse. Here the distant demigod part is much more minimal But then I'm just starting chapter 5, so I shouldn't be judging yet. EDIT: One criticism though, the epub version doesn't have any sort of demarcation when it hops point of view. Something as simple as a line of asterisks or a double carriage return to let me know it is a scene change would make it more coherent. Though that could be the reader I am using doing something with the formatting Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 23:53
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Oh you have got to be making GBS threads me The Cabal killed Dr Martin Luther King Jr Jesus, who thought making that part of canon was a good loving idea?
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Oct 5, 2013 00:43
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Fried Chicken posted:Oh you have got to be making GBS threads me ....Please tell me you are making GBS threads me.
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Oct 5, 2013 00:50
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Fried Chicken posted:Oh you have got to be making GBS threads me It's very important the we ground our super secret Illuminati-esque group to real life events because
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Oct 5, 2013 00:53
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bunnyofdoom posted:....Please tell me you are making GBS threads me. A Cabal assassin is reflecting on the work he has done for them. He was recruited off Iwo Jima, made a perpetual, and as his first mission kills the "man in Memphis". He then kills a few more who are fictional, but by description, all of them were nonviolent civil rights crusaders - judging by their titles and the speeches they are said to have given, and the fact that he says only one of his targets (someone of the far future) deserved to die. A non violent civil rights activist killed in Memphis some time between Iwo Jima and the year 2000. Not a lot of names on that list
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Oct 5, 2013 01:17
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thespaceinvader posted:There's a STRONG implication that Russ has some wolf or dog DNA involved. Similar things for a few others too from memory, particularly Sanguinius and Corax. My take on it is that Russ took on the attributes of the creatures he first encountered, the wolves. We know primarchs do this because of the story of Fulgrim's first encounter in Angel Exterminatus. Further, we know from Magnus that there aren't any wolves on Fenris, that they are actually genetically altered humans crafted to survive on the deathworld. Thus we can extrapolate that the canine features of Russ stem from the fact that the first humans he encountered were in fact wolves. Demiurge4 fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 01:40
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How much control or influence does a founding chapter have over the ones who share their gene-seed? I just finished The Emperors Gift and I'm wondering if the Inquisition pulled that poo poo with the Imperial Fists or the Ultramarines, would they be going up against dozens of other chapters?
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Oct 5, 2013 01:55
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Ego-bot posted:How much control or influence does a founding chapter have over the ones who share their gene-seed? It depends on the Chapter/Legion. The Dark Angels, for instance, practically never split. IIRC, the various Iron Hands successors aren't particularly fond of each other, due to the competitive clan system their companies are organized into.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:00
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Fried Chicken posted:A Cabal assassin is reflecting on the work he has done for them. He was recruited off Iwo Jima, made a perpetual, and as his first mission kills the "man in Memphis". He then kills a few more who are fictional, but by description, all of them were nonviolent civil rights crusaders - judging by their titles and the speeches they are said to have given, and the fact that he says only one of his targets (someone of the far future) deserved to die. Jesus loving Christ.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:04
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Fried Chicken posted:A Cabal assassin is reflecting on the work he has done for them. He was recruited off Iwo Jima, made a perpetual, and as his first mission kills the "man in Memphis". He then kills a few more who are fictional, but by description, all of them were nonviolent civil rights crusaders - judging by their titles and the speeches they are said to have given, and the fact that he says only one of his targets (someone of the far future) deserved to die. Oh good god... Why, Abnett? Why? I'd been sitting on a copy of this for a bit and now I'm scared to read it.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:57
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Fried Chicken posted:A Cabal assassin is reflecting on the work he has done for them. He was recruited off Iwo Jima, made a perpetual, and as his first mission kills the "man in Memphis". He then kills a few more who are fictional, but by description, all of them were nonviolent civil rights crusaders - judging by their titles and the speeches they are said to have given, and the fact that he says only one of his targets (someone of the far future) deserved to die. Are you saying the Cabal can make someone a perpetual? That's interesting. Also, I'm doing everything in my power to ignore everything else I'm quoting.
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Oct 5, 2013 03:00
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Nephilm posted:A little late to the discussion, but Garro et al being the precursor to the Grey Knights (and likely the first Grand Masters) does not make the Grey Knights genetically related to the traitor legions. To found a chapter/legion you'd need vast quantities of geneseed for the new recruits, and those were provided by Malcador/Big E along with other necessary infrastructure when the fledging chapter was installed on Titan. Same basic method as a Chapter founding. A geneseed source is selected and implanted into the new recruits while the cadre of marines who will train and lead them are drawn in from the veteran core of extant chapters (with the same primogenitor). It's entirely consistent for the loyal members of the traitor legions to have formed the core of a chapter that used geneseed from the Emperor. Improbable Lobster posted:It depends on the Chapter/Legion. The Dark Angels, for instance, practically never split. IIRC, the various Iron Hands successors aren't particularly fond of each other, due to the competitive clan system their companies are organized into. Yeah, it would vary. As you say, the Dark Angels are essentially still secretly one legion answering to the Supreme Commander of the Dark Angels chapter as I remember it. Meanwhile the Sons of Medusa split away from the Iron Hands to avoid an internal war breaking out over a matter of theological difference.
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Oct 5, 2013 03:13
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TheStampede posted:Are you saying the Cabal can make someone a perpetual? That's interesting. Also, I'm doing everything in my power to ignore everything else I'm quoting. Yep. That's how John Grammaticus became one. Also, in Betrayer, it is said by an associate of Grammaticus that when Erebus brought Cyrene back she came back as a perpetual, so he is apparently also capable of it.
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Oct 5, 2013 03:23
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Fried Chicken posted:A Cabal assassin is reflecting on the work he has done for them. He was recruited off Iwo Jima, made a perpetual, and as his first mission kills the "man in Memphis". He then kills a few more who are fictional, but by description, all of them were nonviolent civil rights crusaders - judging by their titles and the speeches they are said to have given, and the fact that he says only one of his targets (someone of the far future) deserved to die. That's...that's a bit on the nose, Dan. Christ.
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Oct 5, 2013 03:44
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Was Lee Harvey Oswald a perpetual too? Would explain a lot.
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Oct 5, 2013 04:54
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Despite the fact that they clearly are, I always find it rather odd when I mentally try to connect our timeline with the events of WH40k. I don't know why Black Library would feel the need to address something like MLK.
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Oct 5, 2013 07:10
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It's just such an insane idea that seems like it's only in there for dumb shock value. Like, was it actually a problem that the Cabal didn't seem dickish enough?
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Oct 5, 2013 07:13
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You rapidly forget all the MLK stuff, trust me. This is exactly how 40K Batman should be. gently caress your duel, he's wired the chapel.
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Oct 5, 2013 08:15
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JerryLee posted:It's just such an insane idea that seems like it's only in there for dumb shock value. Like, was it actually a problem that the Cabal didn't seem dickish enough? It's not dumb shock value because 99% of the audience probably don't even know who he is, let alone do the mental gymnastics to figure out the reference. It's a nod and a wink to people with a brain.
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Oct 5, 2013 09:09
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So I actually finished the Space Wolves series. That series ends well. I like it. Catharsis, loss, hope for the future... it's a good ending to a solid set of novels.
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Oct 5, 2013 09:53
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drat. Wrath of Iron is so good. That is all.
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Oct 5, 2013 11:21
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Plastic Scouser posted:drat. Wrath of Iron is so good. That is all. It really is.
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Oct 5, 2013 17:13
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So Unremembered Empire had two new interesting plot threads. The beacon that Dantioch is operating is on Sotha the future home of Scythes of the Emperor. They're later wiped out by the Tyranids and Sothas destroyed . Are the beacons what's drawing the Tyranids out into the galaxy and why they hit Ultramar so hard? The anti-chaos Word Bearer certainly sounds like he could be part of the founding of the Grey Knights. Grey armor inscribed with devotions to the Emperor, he still has the old Word Bearer book emblem, devotion to the Emperor as a god. .
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Oct 6, 2013 00:56
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Stolen from YOSPOS, not topical but Abnett fans will enjoy:
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Oct 6, 2013 03:06
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Quills posted:So Unremembered Empire had two new interesting plot threads. The fluff on the Tyranids seems to be the most inconsistent, but its usually said that the Tyranids can sense the Astronomican and are all heading towards it.
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Oct 6, 2013 04:11
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I just re-read alpha legion. So the Alpharius and Omegeon are shown a vision by aliens, and just like that decide to side with Horus? Fully knowing it will leading mankind to extinction? I also don't understand why they exterminated all the imperial army forces at the end ether. Yeah i get the lord commander is kind of an arrogant rear end in a top hat, but really? Also i am getting sick of the cabal. pentyne posted:The fluff on the Tyranids seems to be the most inconsistent, but its usually said that the Tyranids can sense the Astronomican and are all heading towards it. So does this mean the warp exists in other galaxies? Or is the emperor just that powerful.
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Oct 6, 2013 04:23
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UberJumper posted:So does this mean the warp exists in other galaxies? Or is the emperor just that powerful. Fluff is loose/contradictory about what drove them to the Milky Way in the first place, be it either exhausting the resources of their home galaxy or escaping from something more dreadful, but as far as the Astronomican is concerned it's probably more along the line that as they got close they spotted this big shiny beacon, and so are heading to it like moths to flame.
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Oct 6, 2013 04:45
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Nephilm posted:Fluff is loose/contradictory about what drove them to the Milky Way in the first place, be it either exhausting the resources of their home galaxy or escaping from something more dreadful, but as far as the Astronomican is concerned it's probably more along the line that as they got close they spotted this big shiny beacon, and so are heading to it like moths to flame. The nearest galaxy is ~2.5 million light years away, so the tyranids would have had to leave a long long time ago. I am pretty sure even if the emperor didn't setup his lighthouse. I am assuming the tyranids would still be coming, regardless. My other problem is that everything points to the fact that the warp only seems to exist within the milky way. So how exactly would the Tyranids know about the warp and see the Astronomican?
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Oct 6, 2013 05:09
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So am I correct in assuming that *all* the HH books dealing with Corax in any depth, were written by poo poo authors (i.e., Gav Thorpe) and are, thus, poo poo? Because purely as one of the primarchs, he seems to be one of the more interesting ones and feel kind of curious about him (even if only based on the short scene he had in First Heretic) and so that seems a bit of a shame. I would have liked to read more about him 
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Oct 6, 2013 05:13
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The Astronomican is an incredible powerful psychic signal that resonates into the warp, any sufficiently powerful and sensitive psyker can feel it. Also, the warp doesn't *just* exist within the Milky Way, just as far as we can ascertain the domain of chaos is centered around the activity of sentient beings. What is beyond? Who knows, maybe the calm void that existed before the birth of the four. And the nids have a method of FTL travel that is possibly more effective out in the void.
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Oct 6, 2013 05:15
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Nephilm posted:The Astronomican is an incredible powerful psychic signal that resonates into the warp, any sufficiently powerful and sensitive psyker can feel it. Also, the warp doesn't *just* exist within the Milky Way, just as far as we can ascertain the domain of chaos is centered around the activity of sentient beings. What is beyond? Who knows, maybe the calm void that existed before the birth of the four. The Astronomican is extremely powerful yes, but i seem to recall that one of the main reasoning behind why the east of milky way galaxy is so under developed is because the signal is so distant that the navigators can barely use it to navigate. However considering how far away the nearest galaxies are, the Tyranids would had to leave far before M30. It doesn't make any sense that tyranids were just passing by and happened to see the light house, you don't just pass by a galaxy. The Tyranids were already coming, regardless of the lighthouse, for a snack. The only way the Astronomican is the reason for the tyranids to come to the milky way galaxy is if they were sleeping in the void outside our galaxy. However if the Astronomican isn't strong enough to cover the entirety of the milky way, i still don't see how it could reach the Tyranids. Or i could just shut up and accept its 40k.
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Oct 6, 2013 05:53
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Just into the first few pages of The Unremembered Empire, and a tiny spoiler, but this has more to do with prior novels and if I've missed something concerning the whole 'Imperial Truth' motif. Roboute ruminates that the Primarchs (or perhaps he alone?) are aware of the 4 powers of the warp stealing them away and dispatching them across the galaxy, but he thinks the Emperor planned it all along. So the Primarchs knew about the warp and the existence of the Chaos Gods all along, or…? Considering (I think) The First Heretic, Guilliman was the one to chastise Lorgar for worshipping the Emperor, and then Lorgar discovered the existence of Warp Gods, this seems rather inconsistent. Can anyone clarify?
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Oct 6, 2013 06:02
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