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Peruser posted:I can't tell if Russia still owns Nope, it's colored and Russia is grayed out. It's kind of hilarious because basically the whole population was expelled in 1945 and replaced with ethnic Russians. Currently Russians are 85% of the population, Germans are less than 1%, and it's one of the Russian Federation's primary military bases. But hey, pretty borders!
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Oct 4, 2013 21:42
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DarkCrawler posted:Finland loves it more then Scandinavia. A goal of many Paradox campaigns (for me).
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Oct 4, 2013 21:46
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They're mentioned in the map key but where exactly are the Romani territories? I've been scanning this map for a good ten minutes looking for them and I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.
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Oct 4, 2013 21:49
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kustomkarkommando posted:They're mentioned in the map key but where exactly are the Romani territories? I've been scanning this map for a good ten minutes looking for them and I feel like I'm missing something really obvious. I think he intends to show them as a recognized people in this federal Europe even if they don't have a state. Judging from the mapmaker's Facebook he's been pretty preoccupied with Roma issues lately.
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Oct 4, 2013 22:07
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Soviet Commubot posted:I think he intends to show them as a recognized people in this federal Europe even if they don't have a state. Judging from the mapmaker's Facebook he's been pretty preoccupied with Roma issues lately. It's a good thing to be preoccupied about. The discrimination the Roma face is horrible.
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Oct 4, 2013 23:25
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They're in the legend on the right as 'dispersed peoples' along with the Aromanians, so I'm guessing they don't get their own nation state. Although I'd just like to go on the record to say that dividing up Europe into nation-states is a stupid idea, since it's fundamentally exclusive, and also ethnicity does not work that way. 
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Oct 4, 2013 23:25
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Emanuel Collective posted:Why? Congressional seats are assigned to states so the populations in congressional districts are roughly uniform nationwide. A district in urban California has roughly as many people as a district in rural North Carolina. Because if turnout is high is blue states and they win by a high margin versus low in red states and they win by a low margin (Tea Party types actually won by a large margin but they did have low turnout) then number of representatives don't matter that much.
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Oct 4, 2013 23:59
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PittTheElder posted:They're in the legend on the right as 'dispersed peoples' along with the Aromanians, so I'm guessing they don't get their own nation state. But the Aromanians get all the orange speckled areas in the Southern Balkans and they're labeled and in the same section of the index, I'm frustrated by this unclear labeling! You won't get any arguments from me supporting the idea of dividing anywhere up into ever decreasing ethnic nation-states though. Enough complaining, have a map that caused a mini-political crisis.  The border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Free State was initially considered provisional and was meant to be revised by an impartial boundary commission. When the early proposals of the commission were leaked by the press it was revealed that it was planning to give more territory to Northern Ireland, something that the Irish government had never anticipated. The proposed land transfers were considered particularly insulting because most observers expected the Catholic majority city of Derry to be transferred to the Free State, instead more areas of Donegal adjacent to Derry were earmarked for Northern Ireland. The result was a mini political crisis and the cementing of the provisional borders as permanent. kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 00:33
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This is from a few pages back and I hate to say it but I went to Tangier Island in 2010 and was pretty disappointed by their accent. It doesn't really exist anymore and was mostly old people who sounded like it. I wrote more about it in the A/T thread Tell me what you hate about your language. The ferry ride was super nice, though. 
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Oct 5, 2013 01:05
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Soviet Commubot posted:A kinda dumb map of this guy's vision of a future federal Europe. I imagine a similar map could be made in Victoria 2 by just going to every major country in Europe and hitting the "release nation" button until you can't anymore. In the Sami state, the city of Murmansk alone would have nearly twice as many Russians as there are Samis in the whole Sami state. There's a similar bizarre issue with Finnish irridentism where they attach Karelia in maps like this, despite 80% of Karelia being Russians. 
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Oct 5, 2013 01:26
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Soviet Commubot posted:A kinda dumb map of this guy's vision of a future federal Europe. I imagine a similar map could be made in Victoria 2 by just going to every major country in Europe and hitting the "release nation" button until you can't anymore. Navarra always gets forsaken in these idiotic maps. Map of the percentage of people proficient in Basque in Navarra: 
King Hong Kong fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 01:44
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 The Republic of Lakotah, a proposed native american homeland. From what I can tell it's a fringe movement, but their claims are based on treaties with the US government. This seems extremely optimistic. made of bees fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 02:17
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kustomkarkommando posted:The border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Free State was initially considered provisional and was meant to be revised by an impartial boundary commission. When the early proposals of the commission were leaked by the press it was revealed that it was planning to give more territory to Northern Ireland, something that the Irish government had never anticipated. The proposed land transfers were considered particularly insulting because most observers expected the Catholic majority city of Derry to be transferred to the Free State, instead more areas of Donegal adjacent to Derry were earmarked for Northern Ireland. The result was a mini political crisis and the cementing of the provisional borders as permanent. This is the kind of thing that comes back to haunt you. I think the Protestants are barely a majority these days.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:30
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Squalid posted:
In one genetic map I saw, the genetic difference between eastern and western Finns was larger than the difference between Swedes and Italians. And the Finland-Swedes (ethnic minority in Finland that speaks Swedish as its native language) was clearly a western Finnish population. Soviet Commubot posted:
Sami people would still be a small minority in their "own" country.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:32
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Is Brussels the capital of Flanders (Vlaandaren)? I don't know if Brussels is gonna like that.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:45
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Well, legally it is, despite not actually being part of the Flemish region's territory (it does fall partly under the Dutch-speaking community, which is a political level distinct from the regional one)
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Oct 5, 2013 03:01
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Phlegmish posted:This is the kind of thing that comes back to haunt you. I think the Protestants are barely a majority these days. Derry is a problem because it occupies a very important place in loyalist culture, but has had a Catholic majority for some time. Needless to say its been a focal point for the worst of the Troubles.
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Oct 5, 2013 03:08
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Propaganda maps from WWI 
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Oct 5, 2013 05:04
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PrinceRandom posted:Propaganda maps from WWI First map appears to be only a mild exaggeration, based on the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. What does the text on that second one say? Was that based on what Lenin released from the secret Entente negotiations?
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Oct 5, 2013 05:17
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At least the Russian one doesn't arbitrarily break away Istanbul and cede it to Greece or any such Megali Idea nonsense. 
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Oct 5, 2013 05:43
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Kavak posted:First map appears to be only a mild exaggeration, based on the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. My understanding is that the Germans made it as propaganda claiming that the "RUSSKIES ARE COMMING FER US"  form of propaganda.I'm not sure that Brest-Litovsk set groundworks for annexation though I'm sure a economic sphere of influence was preferred to actual independent states. Edit: I just noticed that for some reason Corsica goes back to Italy even in the "Russian War Aims" map. PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 05:49
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Kavak posted:First map appears to be only a mild exaggeration, based on the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. That Omniatlas is a pretty neat website.  The bottom map roughly says "The Future of Europe (as Wilhelm "The Emperor of Europe" had not meant to see)". It's likely I got the wording of the part in the brackets slightly off but that's the gist of it. Could somebody dig up a higher resolution version of this map? If possible with the text on the other side of the page included (not all countries shown are discussed in the sidebar). I'd love to read their explanations for some of these borders but it's too blurry. E: I just noticed the best part of that Russian map.  Western/Eastern Thrace
SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 09:09
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PrinceRandom posted:I'm not sure that Brest-Litovsk set groundworks for annexation though I'm sure a economic sphere of influence was preferred to actual independent states. The Polish Border Strip was going to be annexed, and the rest was going to be a series of puppet states- there were a lot of plans about German settlement, expulsion of Poles and such but they never got to start enacting them. Kavak fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 09:41
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Slightly bigger/more readable: This is great: RUSSIA: great and mighty fights to bring back rights, justice, peace and lawfulness on Earth - she does not need others' goods or lands, she will take only what belongs to her from the dawn of time - Red Russia with Lviv and Peremyshl, and a part of Bukovina and Chernovitz. Eastern Prussia with Koeninsberg along the Vistula, reddened with Russian blood so many times, has to become a part of Russia. Danzig and Torig must become Russian strongholds. Adjacent to Russia, under her protection, autonomous POLAND will reunite its provinces, torn apart by the schemes of Germans and Austrians. ... BELGIUM: the first to show her mad bravery to Germany, poor ruined Belgium, does she not deserve to be a great power? She will get the province of Rhine and the right to take to Brussels from the museums of Berlin the best works of art. ... SWITZERLAND: the peaceful land of resorts will get Tirol with its resorts, so that Russians don't have to go to resorts in Austria. (that's almost exactly the wording, poetic) ... ALBANIA: lost all rights to an independent state, will be divided between Montenegro, Serbia and Italy. And all nations of Europe will then live in peace and prosperity, without the ruthless specter of Wilhelm the Mad and his armored fist. quote:РОССИЯ – великая, самодержавная, воюет за восстановление права, справедливости,мира и законности на земле – ей не нужно чужое добро, ей не нужны чужие земли, она возьмет лишь только то, что ей искони всегда принадлежало – Червонную Русь с Львовом и Перемышлем, и часть Буковины с Черновицами. Восточная Пруссия с Кенигсбергом по Висле, обагренная не раз русской кровью, должна быть вновь Русской землей. Данциг и Ториг должны быть сделаны русскими крепостями. Somaen fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 11:02
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Somaen posted:POLAND will reunite its provinces, torn apart by the schemes of Germans and Austrians.   E: Haha that map posted:Alsace and Lorraine will again be part of free France SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 11:08
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Soviet Commubot posted:A kinda dumb map of this guy's vision of a future federal Europe. I imagine a similar map could be made in Victoria 2 by just going to every major country in Europe and hitting the "release nation" button until you can't anymore. I just got this poster in from Eurominority.eu, it's a fun alternate reality. 
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Oct 5, 2013 11:32
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I'm impressed and jealous that you guys can read Russian. To be honest, for being WWI propaganda it doesn't sound all that different from Russia Today.
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Oct 5, 2013 12:09
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Phlegmish posted:I'm impressed and jealous that you guys can read Russian. Yeah, it is funny how much Russian seems to show up in D&D, and yet there isn't a CIS thread.
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Oct 5, 2013 12:45
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Hogge Wild posted:In one genetic map I saw, the genetic difference between eastern and western Finns was larger than the difference between Swedes and Italians. And the Finland-Swedes (ethnic minority in Finland that speaks Swedish as its native language) was clearly a western Finnish population. This is a pretty complex issue, and often in sciences like genetics one appealing report makes its way to the popular consciousness, while other studies never make it beyond obscure journals. Finland is genetically interesting because it's sort of isolated from Europe and pretty homogeneous, so it offers a lot of interesting data. The differences between the Western and Eastern populations might be exaggerated due to specific samples representing something weird, but there is definitely a clear difference, possibly due to much of Eastern Finland being settled very late, like after the Middle Ages. So you can probably still see the founder effect in places like Savo and Kainuu, while in the west coast the Scandinavian contribution to the genetics is much greater. This one paper was arguing against the differences being due to the founder effect, but due to, well, something else: The regional differences in the Y-chromosomal diversity in Sweden are also small,23 and gene flow from Sweden could thus homogenize the Y-chromosomal diversity between south-western and northern Finland. The large Y-STR differences between the western and eastern parts of Finland are thus plausibly explained by regionally restricted gene flow, extending to the south-western and northern Finland. The Late settlement area in turn, would seem to retain more of the Fenno-Ugric genetic composition originating from the regions east of Finland. This is reflected in the haplogroup distribution: the Scandinavian haplogroup I occurs with frequencies >30% only in western Finland.4 Haplogroup N3, typical for Fenno-Ugric populations of north-eastern Europe,48, 50 is observed in all parts of Finland but reaches high frequencies (∼79%) only in eastern Finland. [...] The results propose Scandinavian gene flow as a source of inter-regional differences in Finland. As the whole of Finland has been continuously inhabited since the early Holocene,52 it may be assumed that these early populations have also contributed to the present-day gene pool. It is possible that, at some stage, the majority of the males in this prehistoric population carried the Y chromosomes of haplogroup N3.48 The subsequent Scandinavian gene flow has then affected the genetic composition of the south-western as well as the northernmost parts of Finland only, creating the large Y-chromosomal differences between western and eastern parts of the country. In other words, the Scandinavian influence can be seen as an additional genetic element in the ESA region (and Lapland), whereas the Finno-Ugric genetic component remains still more prominent in the east of Finland. It also fits to the notion of slight yet significant substructure observed in autosomal SNP markers.7 If this gene flow has been male biased, it could also credibly explain the large differences between the Y-chromosomal and mtDNA/autosomal diversity patterns. Under the model proposed here, the patchy occurrence of FDH diseases, especially in eastern Finland, is better explained by long-term drift, more acute in the sparsely inhabited eastern Finland, rather than by relatively recent founder effects. The distances observed between the LSA sub-populations also support high drift in this area (Figure 4). Alleviated by the Scandinavian gene flow, the drift has been less severe in the western parts of the country. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2986642/
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Oct 5, 2013 12:50
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Mycroft Holmes posted:It's a good thing to be preoccupied about. The discrimination the Roma face is horrible. It definitely is a good thing to be preoccupied about. In the last couple of weeks a fair number of his posts on Facebook have been about Roma and a picture of himself with a Roma flag. I might ask him if he'll do a map of concentrations of various dispersed peoples in Europe, that might be neat. Vivian Darkbloom posted:I just got this poster in from Eurominority.eu, it's a fun alternate reality. It's the same guy who did this, I'm fairly sure that Eurominority is a one man operation.
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Oct 5, 2013 21:14
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Thanks for that, it's better than I could've hoped for.
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Oct 5, 2013 21:19
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I just got this poster in from Eurominority.eu, it's a fun alternate reality. That the Sami people have historically been living in the area called Sápmi doesn't mean that they've been the majority of that area. I think this guy just found a chart of indigenous people and went "yeah, they'd totally conquer all of that." Even if the Scandinavian states didn't treat them like poo poo, they would most likely still be a minority. Their settlements were pretty far apart, and some were nomadic for a pretty long time because of their reindeer (a few groups still are).
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Oct 5, 2013 22:24
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ulvir posted:That the Sami people have historically been living in the area called Sápmi doesn't mean that they've been the majority of that area. I think this guy just found a chart of indigenous people and went "yeah, they'd totally conquer all of that." Even if the Scandinavian states didn't treat them like poo poo, they would most likely still be a minority. Their settlements were pretty far apart, and some were nomadic for a pretty long time because of their reindeer (a few groups still are). I think everyone recognizes that those map regions don't necessarily represent coherent nations today, and the map cops out by referring vaguely to "historical regions". But the representation of these nations runs from nation-states (recognized EU members), protected cultural regions, regular provinces or territories (like Moravia, below), all the way to historical places like Sorbia (usually called Lusatia) which have not had political status for a long time if ever. Maybe that Eurominority map would be a map of nation-states today if the late 18th century had gone pretty differently? Here's percent of citizens in territorial Moravia (CZ) identifying as ethnically Moravian in the 2011 census. Forge a national identity from that, I dare you.  While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend a book about how settler states (I mean, countries where an invading people wiped out most native culture, replacing it with European culture) relate to their native minority populations? I'm interested to see how attitudes & practices toward native rights have developed in the Americas and Russia particularly.
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Oct 5, 2013 23:39
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I'd love to read a book about Spanish/Portuguese or Russian settler societies. There is a lot of accessible information about the conquests themselves, but it's surprisingly hard to find a good book about, say, colonial Latin America.
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Oct 6, 2013 01:40
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Settler colonial studies is a bit of an emergent field, a lot of the books being produced currently are very academic and the quality is rather patchy (at best). I'm not familiar with anything focusing specifically on Russia but there may be something out there. Henry Reynolds wrote some great books on early Australia, Frontier especially, he sort of kicked off the current wave of academic work looking at settler societies. Francis Jenning's Invasion of America did something similar for America but Kevin Bruyneel's Third Space of Sovereignty covers a wider time period and tries to look at how attitudes towards Native Americans developed over time and is well worth a read. Walter Hixson has a book coming out in December focusing on American Settler Colonialism that looks really promising. I've also heard a lot of good things about James Lehnings new book European Colonialism but I personally haven't read it. A good place to have a browse is https://www.settlercolonialstudies.org it collects a bunch of papers written on settler colonialism. A lot of the stuff is behind academic pay-walls and the quality varies wildly from interesting to the absurdly abstract but it's worth a poke around if you're interested.
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Oct 6, 2013 02:41
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I think everyone recognizes that those map regions don't necessarily represent coherent nations today, and the map cops out by referring vaguely to "historical regions". But the representation of these nations runs from nation-states (recognized EU members), protected cultural regions, regular provinces or territories (like Moravia, below), all the way to historical places like Sorbia (usually called Lusatia) which have not had political status for a long time if ever. Maybe that Eurominority map would be a map of nation-states today if the late 18th century had gone pretty differently?
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Oct 6, 2013 08:48
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System Metternich posted:
Language chat is the best chat. I live on the eastern border of the "Bezirk Schwaben" in Bavaria. We speak Allgäuerisch which is swabian and or alemannic depending on where in the Allgäu you are. Now when I drive a few kilometers east the dialect completely changes to Bavarian which is weird and awesome at the same time.  The geographic barrier is more or less the river "Lech" with a small stretch of land where people speak a kind of hybrid of Swabian and Bavarian: http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechrainer_Dialekt Sorry English goons, there's no English version. Allgäuerisch has its own problems though. Because of the dominance of Bavarian in the media (radio and television) it keeps creeping into other dialects. Which is a natural process I guess but still, I like the current linguistic diversity we have in Germany. bronin fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 13:43
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When you say that Bavarian is dominant in the local media, do you mean that it is used even by news anchors and radio hosts? There is a similar dominance of Brabantian in Flanders that has existed since the late Middle Ages, but people would never accept its use in an official context.
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Oct 6, 2013 14:07
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Phlegmish posted:When you say that Bavarian is dominant in the local media, do you mean that it is used even by news anchors and radio hosts? There is a similar dominance of Brabantian in Flanders that has existed since the late Middle Ages, but people would never accept its use in an official context. No, news anchors not really. Radio hosts sometimes. It's just that when TV shows or movies are set in Bavaria it's usually in upper Bavaria (Munich and the surrounding areas) so everyone speaks this semi standard German semi Bavarian dialect.
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Oct 6, 2013 15:38
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Do you mean one specific kind of Bavarian is dominant across Bavaria, or Bavarian is dominant in Germany? I learned standard High German since that's what they teach in the US. I'm not good at identifying dialects but I can tell a few. Bavarian can be confusing but I generally can follow it. I can tell Austrian German is different than what I learned but can't really differentiate it from Bavarian. Swiss German is just nonsense.
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Oct 6, 2013 16:21
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