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Fag Boy Jim posted:I hope mentioning on a popular gaming site that the most popular Doom mod is one made by a racist homophobe that has been banned from the zDoom and Zandronum forums for encouraging a depressed poster to kill himself doesn't reflect poorly on the Doom community! That would be very bad, IMO. The other problem is that BD frequently crosses the line of taste - there's cartoonish violence like the new Shadow Warrior than there's the enemies crawling on all fours screaming and you can kick their teeth in (not to mention the real gore bullshit even if that was vetoed) If your audience is hardcore gamers than go ahead but if it's more for people who haven't tried it I think the mod is a bit too controversial for that.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:13
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Besides, writing an article on Doom and focusing on zdoom weapon mods from the past 3 years is like writing about the history and impact of fighting games, but making it 95% about MUGEN, and 5% Smash Bros.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:16
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Jblade posted:If your audience is hardcore gamers than go ahead but if it's more for people who haven't tried it I think the mod is a bit too controversial for that. Outside of the hardcore Doom-fan community, Brutal Doom is perceived as just about the best-known mod in years. Almost every major PC gaming site and magazine has featured it at some point or other, and it's a ModDB headliner. It's not this shady, controversial thing that needs to be spoken of in hushed tones.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:17
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Considering Brutal Doom is already so popular, it doesn't really need any more publicity, does it?
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Oct 8, 2013 21:17
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Scyther posted:Considering Brutal Doom is already so popular, it doesn't really need any more publicity, does it? It's going to be a huge article, 5000+ words. It gets a paragraph or two of that because - and I repeat - it is a major, well publiclizied release that is happening on the same day as the article going live, which is also Halloween, which is a holiday most famous for it's spooky, gory, demon-laden nature. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 21:18
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If it has to be included, then it might be best to make it a very small, casual reference. Being a fairly uncomfortable 'mod' to play for a lot of folks isn't a good posterchild for the community. This is for reasons unrelated to the 'actual' content that changes the base game, and has no connection to certain SA posters who have weird vendettas against it and complain whenever it's mentioned.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:18
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The real problem is that it's a giant balance overhaul that's frequently sold as an upgrade or improvement, rather than something to play as a gimmick so you can laugh at the blood and guts. As long as people are aware they're loving up mostly everything good they load on top of it, it's not an issue.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:28
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An Enormous Boner posted:The real problem is that it's a giant balance overhaul that's frequently sold as an upgrade or improvement, rather than something to play as a gimmick so you can laugh at the blood and guts. As long as people are aware they're loving up mostly everything good they load on top of it, it's not an issue. Do I really need to attach that warning to every gameplay mod? I'm going to have Project MSX in there too, which makes even more radical changes.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:31
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Dominic White posted:Do I really need to attach that warning to every gameplay mod? I'm going to have Project MSX in there too, which makes even more radical changes. Nobody's mistaking Project MSX for being "more Doom than Doom", though. Brutal Doom is in a unique situation and probably does warrant that disclaimer.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:35
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I don't see how someone could write an article about Doom mods and the state of Doom today and leave out an extremely popular mod that is probably the only one most people have heard of.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:36
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Just so there's no doubt here, there is no vetoing the inclusion of Brutal Doom. It won't be the centerpiece of anything, but it will get a notable mention due to the timing. It'd be really, really stupid to intentionally skip on it because there are a few curmudgeons in the old-school Doom community (who wouldn't even really have a need to read the article in the first place, as it's all poo poo you already know) who think it's overexposed. I'm also not giving many column inches to engines outside of ZDoom, because GZDoom and Zandronum are the easiest to set up, most widely supported, and required for most major mods these days. If you're a hardcore purist, you probably already know about the more vanilla-style source ports anyway. The focus will be squarely on accessibility. So, again, what map-packs and mods do you think best define Doom in recent years. Like, in the past five or so? Some earlier classics may get a mention, but we're trying to get people up to speed, not lay out a history lesson.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:47
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Dominic White posted:It's going to be a tough call! Even with a big Halloween feature, I've only got so much space to fill here, so I'll have to be careful with my picking and choosing.  In all seriousness, I think the obvious solution is not to focus on one particular mod--I would suggest you either write a big chunk on every mod or a small chunk on every mod, rather than trying to give "quite a focus" on a single mod as being special for a certain reason or not. Because, well, not one single mod is more special than the other; if you're going for the biggest and the best, ALL of them are pretty accomplished in different ways. EDIT: Dominic White posted:It won't be the centerpiece of anything Though as for what really is an excellent example of a modern-day mod, I say Reelism is an obvious contender. I mean, poo poo, if there was ever a pick-up-and-play mass-crazy mod that outdid the entertainment value of most full video games about popping bubblewrap wrapped in a sack of disembodied dicks, Reelism would be it. No bullshit, just weapons and enemies and occasionally a tank. Well, no, there's occasional bullshit. The "no weapon" reels are a real kick in the pisser. TerminusEst13 fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 21:50
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TerminusEst13 posted:I say Reelism is an obvious contender. Reelism is a given. It's fun, silly, accessible and even catches a bit of that wave-survival/roguelike zeitgeist too.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:01
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I say nuts.wad is an obvious choice to showcase.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:06
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ChexQuest 3.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:06
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TUTNT is a very good wad 
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Oct 8, 2013 22:09
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Speed of Doom is the best .wad of the last five years.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:10
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:I say nuts.wad is an obvious choice to showcase. Eh, Sunder is getting a mention. It's kinda like Nuts, only playable.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:10
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Dominic White posted:Eh, Sunder is getting a mention. It's kinda like Nuts, only playable. And how is that fun at all?
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Oct 8, 2013 22:11
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If Hexen mods count (because it's still GZdoom based) than Serpent Resurrection definitely deserves a mention due to how gargantuan it is. It took me nearly 2 solid days of playing to beat it, and it's definitely one of the finest Doom mods I've played.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:33
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Jblade posted:If Hexen mods count (because it's still GZdoom based) than Serpent Resurrection definitely deserves a mention due to how gargantuan it is. It took me nearly 2 solid days of playing to beat it, and it's definitely one of the finest Doom mods I've played. I think I might sneak that in alongside mention of Hexen, because... well, Hexen isn't too good by itself (for reasons covered at length around here), but that mod is.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:34
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Dominic White posted:Eh, Sunder is getting a mention. It's kinda like Nuts, only playable. Not really, dude.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:50
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Korendian Leader posted:Not really, dude. Either way, Nuts is a joke and not actually playable unless you're running a source-port anyway, and is not really worth talking about. Crazy slaughtermaps with thousands of enemies that are actually designed to be beaten? That's worth a look. No janky joke-wads or stuff that looks like it was thrown together in an hour, basically.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:57
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I think Winter's Fury is a good WAD for showing off some non-DOOMy things that doom can do and that people do in the modern wad scene, you've got some slightly cinematic stuff and some very different level design. (feels almost like Halo to me)
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Oct 8, 2013 23:02
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Zaphod42 posted:I think Winter's Fury is a good WAD for showing off some non-DOOMy things that doom can do and that people do in the modern wad scene, you've got some slightly cinematic stuff and some very different level design. (feels almost like Halo to me) Yeah, Winter's Fury is a really impressive piece of work. Along with ZDCMP2 (I so hope they manage to get out RC2/Final before Halloween) it's probably the peak as far as showing off everything GZDoom can do, while still retaining that classic Doom gameplay core.
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Oct 8, 2013 23:07
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Dominic White posted:No janky joke-wads or stuff that looks like it was thrown together in an hour, basically. Neither of those better be describing ChexQuest.
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Oct 8, 2013 23:33
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Neither of those better be describing ChexQuest. Chexquest totally gets a mention in the spinoffs page, although probably no more than a couple sentences.
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Oct 8, 2013 23:41
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Dominic White posted:Yeah, Winter's Fury is a really impressive piece of work. Along with ZDCMP2 (I so hope they manage to get out RC2/Final before Halloween) it's probably the peak as far as showing off everything GZDoom can do, while still retaining that classic Doom gameplay core. ZDCMP2 is honestly one of the best maps I've ever played and I wish there were actual full-sized games made with that sort of non-linear Metroid Prime-ish style that I could spend money on.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:09
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I think the reason people describe brutal doom (incorrectly) as an upgrade or more doomy than doom is that they aren't really all that familiar with the finer mechanics of doom's gameplay. On the surface brutal doom doesn't look to the casual onlooker like it changes the gameplay greatly, and it plays fine with any of the official wads, which is what most people are gonna be playing it with. It isn't until you either get really familiar with the finer points of Doom's balance, or until you try playing a wad that depends on that finely tuned balance, that you realise how much brutal doom changes. But what it does do is bring the game closer in line with the weird popular folklore of Doom that is mostly drawn from the doom comic and hyperbolic news articles about how hosed up doom is and how it was going to ruin our kids. So people outside the hardcore doom community mistake it for being a better or doomier doom.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:21
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It's kind of like how the Simpsons was so controversial when it came out because it starred a rude little boy, but then you realize that eating shorts isn't that vulgar, especially when juxtaposed with something like South Park. Doom is the Simpsons, and...Postal...is South Park.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:26
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FirstPersonShitter posted:I think the reason people describe brutal doom (incorrectly) as an upgrade or more doomy than doom is that they aren't really all that familiar with the finer mechanics of doom's gameplay. In terms of gameplay it's a very different beast, and definitely feels more 'modern' all round. In terms of aesthetics, it's absolutely Doom cranked up to 11, just like in the comic. It's a hyperactive caricature of Doom. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 01:04
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Dominic White posted:So, again, what map-packs and mods do you think best define Doom in recent years. Like, in the past five or so? Some earlier classics may get a mention, but we're trying to get people up to speed, not lay out a history lesson. Is The Ultimate Torment and Torture in? Or is that too old? Because I loving love UT&T. Edit: I played Fate, and I liked it, feels and looks like Quake, with some areas based on Quake bits, but it didn't feel like it was aping Quake, if that makes sense. Then I checked and tried the updated version and the levels are basically remade and expanded Quake maps. Still good, but not nearly as exciting as the older version. catlord fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 01:24
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As far as notable weapon mods, I would include Russian Overkill, NAZIS!, Satanic, Real Guns Advanced, and Psychic.
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Oct 9, 2013 01:27
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catlord posted:Is The Ultimate Torment and Torture in? Or is that too old? Because I loving love UT&T. Most likely. Seems the final version was released on 2011. Definitely need to mention Putrifier, too, for managing to look and feel like a Quake 2 map running in Doom.
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Oct 9, 2013 01:28
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Since SgtMark is largely viewed as a racist homophobic shithead, why not ask me for some words or something? Eh? Eh? Mostly I'm just sad that the gaming press has never talked to me, despite being the raving mad voice behind the violence.  EDIT: FirstPersonShitter posted:But what it does do is bring the game closer in line with the weird popular folklore of Doom that is mostly drawn from the doom comic and hyperbolic news articles about how hosed up doom is and how it was going to ruin our kids. So people outside the hardcore doom community mistake it for being a better or doomier doom. Chinese Tony Danza fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 02:01
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:I've always thought of Brutal Doom as being what concerned parents and politicians imagined Doom was. So, terrible?
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Oct 9, 2013 02:11
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I was just remarking on that vs. "it's like Doom, but even more like Doom!!" But yeah, okay, it's terrible. I'll just put that out there so we can prevent another stupid derail of "Brutal Doom is pretty okay" and "It's not and you're stupid for thinking so" over and over again.
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Oct 9, 2013 02:19
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This thread would be about half the page number if it wasn't for Brutal Doom "debates"
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Oct 9, 2013 02:22
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If want to give some space to the odd breed of gimmick maps based on size/linecount, Zone 300 is a recent one that I'm really enjoying right now. It has 31 300-linedef maps that are all actually quite fun little maps.
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Oct 9, 2013 03:10
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Honestly I don't know where all the backlash against Brutal Doom's gameplay changes is coming from. It's obviously different, mind, but everybody with two brain cells to rub together can see that it's an entirely new game that happens to be Doom-compatible, not some kind of replacement for vanilla Doom.
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Oct 9, 2013 03:39
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