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Didn't Opie also turn hideously ugly and extra crazy when he pulled that though?
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Oct 8, 2013 17:34
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Zexerous posted:What about Opie and his "I'm gonna eat me some hollows" ability? This isn't (only) a retcon; its as straight of a deus ex machina as you can get. Urahara shows up unannounced with the solution to all of their problems? Come the gently caress on, Kubo.
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Oct 8, 2013 18:33
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So I guess they are insinuating that Omaeda has bankai? Probably turns his sword into a huge weeping vagina
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Oct 8, 2013 18:33
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Okay I have been very forgiving of this manga but this is too stupid even for me. So it's not that they can't steal Ichigo's bankai, they just wouldn't want to? Hey, remember when Ivan/Ebern, aka NOT A QUINCY tried to steal Ichigo's bankai? And it just didn't work? Shouldn't he have been able to steal it if that were the case? And what about Opie, didn't he try to steal Ichigo's bankai? Shouldn't it have just killed him or something? And what about the guy who is a ROBOT? Are you telling me he'd be poisoned by a hollow? That'd make about as much sense as Soifon's poison thing working on him. Yeesh, what a temporary inconvenience Bankai stealing turned out to be.
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Oct 8, 2013 18:40
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Dexo posted:I wish I still had some of my old DBZ HK English Subs in hillariously low quality Real Media Format. I remember eating those up as a kid. Oh man, I remember getting all of my internet anime in Real Media format! I think the first series I downloaded was Ranma 1/2 Real Media episodes in some hilariously awful video quality. I remember that the DBZ episodes past where the Toonami ones stopped (at the time it was around the Ginyu Force) were this big mystery, and seeing video clips from later episodes was like finding treasure. The AMVs I saw were generally things on either VHS or CD that we watched in my high school's Japanese/anime club. I guess there's something to be said for putting together an AMV on a VHS tape. Around this same time period (some point in high school) I picked up a Shounen Jump while visiting relatives in Boston that had a Naruto chapter from the early chuunin exam in it; this was long before anyone really followed Naruto in the West (and I'm pretty sure it's from before the anime started). Still have that actually. To say something that is actually related to Bleach, I find the fact that it seems folks are going to have their bankais returned to them a little strange. Like others have said, it's weird that Kubo made this big point of people overcoming their reliance on their bankai, only to give it back to them after showing them getting dominated without it. Otherwise, this arc has been the best thing to happen to Bleach for quite a while. I just hope he executes it reasonably well. edit: Oh man, this is kinda dumb. I could see the pills preventing bankai from being stolen from those who haven't yet had their bankai stolen, but it doesn't make any sense for it to retroactively harm the quincies who have already stolen bankai. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 18:43
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Zogundar posted:Okay I have been very forgiving of this manga but this is too stupid even for me. In order to steal a bankai you first need to be strong enough to handle it. Also robot or not, he's a spirit now. Spirits work differently.
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Oct 8, 2013 18:45
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Zogundar posted:Okay I have been very forgiving of this manga but this is too stupid even for me. Remember Ichigo according to some recent chapters was not actually using a Bankai, he was faking it with his other power sources. So that guy tried to steal something Ichigo never had in the first place.
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Oct 8, 2013 18:49
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Ytlaya posted:edit: Oh man, this is kinda dumb. I could see the pills preventing bankai from being stolen from those who haven't yet had their bankai stolen, but it doesn't make any sense for it to retroactively harm the quincies who have already stolen bankai. Actually it kinda does if you consider that shinigamis and their zanpakutou are connected spiritually, so therefore a connection would also exist to their bankai. It's definitely an asspull but there is some sense to it.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:02
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Shoren posted:Actually it kinda does if you consider that shinigamis and their zanpakutou are connected spiritually, so therefore a connection would also exist to their bankai. It's definitely an asspull but there is some sense to it. Of course in that case it would make most sense to at least save the people who lost their Bankai for last, as opposed to killing them first.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:08
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Zogundar posted:Okay I have been very forgiving of this manga but this is too stupid even for me. Ivan/Ebern trying to steal Ichigo's bankai makes sense, because he was an Arrancar, not a Quincy. The ability to steal bankai isn't exclusive to Quincy, it's just that they developed the tool/tech to do it. As for Opie, you can still assume that he was trying to steal something that Ichigo never actually had (yet). Though that doesn't explain why he was able to use Sklaverei on Allon and live. And as for the big one (Masaki), you can argue that Isshin's Shinigami heritage offset the stupid poison effect once his reiatsu was tethered to Masaki's. So naturally, the resistance passed down to Ichigo and his sisters. Also, they never actually said BG-9 was actually a robot. People just assumed it because Soi-fon just said "wind-up toy." And besides, hopefully Soi-Fon is dead so seeing BG-9 poisoned is unlikely. Although, it is still a lot of bullshit. Angry Grimace posted:This isn't (only) a retcon; its as straight of a deus ex machina as you can get. Urahara shows up unannounced with the solution to all of their problems? Come the gently caress on, Kubo. Makes enough sense though, Urahara is a loving genius by Soul Society standards.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:15
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Scyantific posted:Ivan/Ebern trying to steal Ichigo's bankai makes sense, because he was an Arrancar, not a Quincy. The ability to steal bankai isn't exclusive to Quincy, it's just that they developed the tool/tech to do it. Almost all deus ex machina make sense (e.g. when a ancient Greek God saves everyone in an ancient Grecian play, it makes sense because saving people they like is what they do). The problem isn't whether they create inconsistencies in the plot - those are plot holes. Both are usually terrible storytelling devices. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 19:38
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Scyantific posted:As for Opie, you can still assume that he was trying to steal something that Ichigo never actually had (yet). Though that doesn't explain why he was able to use Sklaverei on Allon and live. I think Opie can be explained as him reducing Allon to his component spirit particles and then absorbing those (and reshaping them into parts that look like Allon), like how Ishida broke down and absorbed the buildings in Soul Society (minus Ishida making himself a set of house wings). Presumably, this is different from trying to steal the unaltered Resureccion of an Arrancar, or the unaltered Bankai of a hollowified Shinigami. Isn't the soul poisoning effect the reason Isshin had to join part of his soul with Masaki's in the first place? Angry Grimace posted:This isn't (only) a retcon; its as straight of a deus ex machina as you can get. Urahara shows up unannounced with the solution to all of their problems? Come the gently caress on, Kubo. Not entirely unannounced. The very last time we saw Urahara, he was fiddling with the Quincy badges for this very purpose.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:39
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Schubalts posted:Isn't the soul poisoning effect the reason Isshin had to join part of his soul with Masaki's in the first place? No, it was to stop the growing effects of hollowfication. Shinigami were falling victim to the aftereffects of being hollowfied, so Urahara whipped up a vaccine with Quincy components. With Masaki, he had to do the exact opposite. Enter Isshin and his Spirit/Shinigami components to complement Masaki's Quincy/Human components.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:43
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Angry Grimace posted:This isn't (only) a retcon; its as straight of a deus ex machina as you can get. Urahara shows up unannounced with the solution to all of their problems? Come the gently caress on, Kubo. Same as every other time that Urahara shows up. His bankai is obviously Deus Ex Machina, hence why it's not "fit for training." All I could think of was "You get a hollow! And you get a hollow! And you get a hollow! Everybody gets a brand new hollow!" I ain't even mad, Kubo. 
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Oct 8, 2013 19:46
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Mangastream Version up
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Oct 8, 2013 19:51
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Schubalts posted:
That's trying to create plot consistency, not fixing that its a deus ex machina. A deus ex is when a contrived solution to a problem occurs in a sudden, completely unexpected way. The fact its referenced in passing earlier in the plot doesn't change anything because a Chekov's Gun can still be a deus ex machina if there's no internal reason to expect it will occur. The plot wasn't resolved internally by Urahara noticing the issue and then working to come up with a solution - he just found the solution off screen without any real reason to imagine he could do so. I mean, the captains are all getting owned and Urahara, without showing any of the things he's doing in the mean time, just shows up and beams magic kill the enemy pills to the location of each captain. Its a huge contrivance.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:09
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Angry Grimace posted:That's trying to create plot consistency, not fixing that its a deus ex machina. A deus ex is when a contrived solution to a problem occurs in a sudden, completely unexpected way. The fact its referenced in passing earlier in the plot doesn't change anything because a Chekov's Gun can still be a deus ex machina if there's no internal reason to expect it will occur. We did see Urahara, Orihime, and Chad doing some stuff in Heuco Mundo. I think they also showed some kind of symbol that looked much like the emblem the Quincy were using to steal bankais. It was just all very vague in order to prevent ruining the suspense/suprise. Isn't this also where Gimmjow was "spotted" ? So they probably had some help from their hollow buddies in figuring this out. We may end up with a more lengthy explanation. It wouldn't make sense to show the full explanation now, since that would detract from the pace of the moment with the captains currently in peril. I don't think this is a complete asspull like some people are claiming. There is likely some link to the situation with Masaki and White. I think Ishida's dad or someone made mention of Masaki being "tainted" by coming into contact with the hollow. I believe this is something Kubo has been thinking about for a while, probably since before this arc even began. Compare this to the suddent appearance of the Vandereich in Soul Society that might've appeared to be an "asspull" like this, but had the later explanation that they were inside Soul Society all along.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:30
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At the very least, it was child's play to predict that the captains who lost bankai, then trained in alternate methods and became humbled and grew as characters had relevance for all of two chapters before the imposed limitations were immediately lifted. It's not like there was ever any real tension, but jesus, Kubo, at least go for a third chapter or threaten more than two captains before the tides turn yet again and Number One starts playing and all the training crap becomes pointless. Who am I kidding, this is Bleach, the Sternritter are just going to pull out some other power and we'll just be back to sword pressing.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:42
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They already have such a power and Opie has used it against Ichigo even if Ishida hadn't demonstrated something similar, though apparently less refined or something in the past.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:46
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I wasn't sure if the other translation was inaccurate or not but the same thing appears in the mangastream version too: On this page Quincies are referred to as a species. Is this new or did I miss something? I thought Quincies were just normal humans that figured out how to fight back against the otherworldly monsters ravaging their land and devouring souls and stuff. But now apparently they're a completely separate species that has "no natural defense" against hollows? What does that make the whole bow shtick?
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Oct 8, 2013 22:17
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Scyantific posted:Makes enough sense though, Urahara is a loving genius by Soul Society standards. Urahara is King Asspull so I've stopped being surprised about anything he does. Everything according to keikaku.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:25
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You can't be mad at Urahara. Sure dude likes to drop solutions to problems at his convenience, but he makes sure to make a good entrance when doing it. Like how in this chapter the most important thing was punking Mayuri. Only after getting sufficient laughs did he let everyone know that he had a magic fix things pill. You just know that whatever barrier was keeping him exiled from Soul Society was Mayuri's work, which was like 3/4 the reason he popped back in right behind Mayuri.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:32
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Angry Grimace posted:This isn't (only) a retcon; its as straight of a deus ex machina as you can get. Urahara shows up unannounced with the solution to all of their problems? Come the gently caress on, Kubo. Urahara was last seen working on the badges in Hueco Mundo surrounded by a few hollow allies. I'm not sure how its sudden or unexpected that the smartest man in the story who had stolen a badge uses hollow stuff to counteract quincy when its already been established that Quincy and Hollows are opposites. What did you expect him to do with the Quincy badge? Every indicator pointed to Urahara fixing it sometime in the future.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:48
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I thought it was Shinigami/Quincy and Human/Hollow for the opposites when Urahara was describing how to save Ichigo's mom.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:54
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I don't see how this is even significant, though. They can leave their bankai badges at home because they've already shown that they can easily stomp anyone in Soul Society with their own abilities. They are just outright stronger than everyone in SS. Burning Finger Quincy, for example, already stated that his natural flames are stronger than Genryuusai's bankai flames anyways. I thought they just stole them to further humiliate them, not because they were ever in any danger from bankai.
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Oct 8, 2013 23:04
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Racist Porn Daimyo posted:Burning Finger Quincy, for example, already stated that his natural flames are stronger than Genryuusai's bankai flames anyways. That was only his Shikai at the time. He didn't use Bankai until Yhwach showed up.
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Oct 8, 2013 23:07
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SpazmasterX posted:Urahara is King Asspull so I've stopped being surprised about anything he does. I'm beginning to think the whole reasoning for the Research Division in the entire anime is just this. Uuuuh just get toasted by an uber-arrow?...oh he is able to turn his body to liquid to regenerate elsewhere. Oh later on he can remove any and all organs. Bankai turning against you? Oh it's been modified to self destruct in that case. Also spews special custom tactical secret poison Need bankai now? Well what do you know, stab this mannequin and all your dreams will be answered (after a quick couple day meditation stint)!
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Oct 8, 2013 23:21
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Gyges posted:I thought it was Shinigami/Quincy and Human/Hollow for the opposites when Urahara was describing how to save Ichigo's mom. The Vizard all ate quincy pills. There are only two known solutions to Hollowfication both developed by Kisuke Urahara. Hollowfied Shinigami: developed to stabilize the Visored. By creating a vaccine using the Quincy Heilig Pfeil and Human souls and injecting them into the souls of the Shinigami that had been Hollowfied, he was able to stop "soul suicide" in all of them.
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Oct 8, 2013 23:24
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huh, i just shouted 'asspull' at my monitor.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:23
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Racist Porn Daimyo posted:I don't see how this is even significant, though. They can leave their bankai badges at home because they've already shown that they can easily stomp anyone in Soul Society with their own abilities. They are just outright stronger than everyone in SS. Burning Finger Quincy, for example, already stated that his natural flames are stronger than Genryuusai's bankai flames anyways. I thought they just stole them to further humiliate them, not because they were ever in any danger from bankai. They already have the badges, Ywach told them to use it. From the last panel, it looks like that guy was dying already from it.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:40
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Kild posted:The Vizard all ate quincy pills. According to this chapter that's shouldn't have worked though. If you're being overtaken by hollowness, the Essence of Quincy shouldn't do much to stop it since being poisoned by hollowness is apparently a fundamental aspect of quincyness. It's like deciding that the best thing to add to the weakened drat is some potassium. That'll surely stop the water.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:51
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Gyges posted:According to this chapter that's shouldn't have worked though. If you're being overtaken by hollowness, the Essence of Quincy shouldn't do much to stop it since being poisoned by hollowness is apparently a fundamental aspect of quincyness. It's like deciding that the best thing to add to the weakened drat is some potassium. That'll surely stop the water. I think the formula is meant to act on both the hollow and shinigami (or Quincy) parts of the person being hollowfied. The Quincy part, in that example, is actually meant to act as the opposite to the shinigami portion whereas the human portion balances the hollow. Basically the formula is meant to balance the soul and bring it into harmony or something, as opposed to actually suppress the hollow. Otherwise, hollow powers straight up wouldn't be accessible. In the formula, the human portion balances the hollow, and the Quincy balances the shinigami. This balance wouldn't have been needed as a pure shinigami because it's a singular thing, but once other stuff gets added, then it all has to balance out. edit: Yeah, here we go: http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/535/10 It doesn't mention the human stuff, so maybe I made that up, but the idea isn't to make a dam so much as to add a counterbalancing force. An opposite--and keep in mind, this goes both ways, and hollows are totally destroyed by a Quincy's arrows as opposed to purified. eta2: The Opie stuff is stupid though and I have no idea how that's supposed to work. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 01:09
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Gyges posted:According to this chapter that's shouldn't have worked though. If you're being overtaken by hollowness, the Essence of Quincy shouldn't do much to stop it since being poisoned by hollowness is apparently a fundamental aspect of quincyness. It's like deciding that the best thing to add to the weakened drat is some potassium. That'll surely stop the water. I think you're taking the poison thing a bit too literally it's more that hollow and quincy neutralize each other [IE. how quincy powers destroy hollows outright hollow powers do the same to quincies]
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Oct 9, 2013 03:46
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Urahara's middle name is MacGuffin.
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Oct 9, 2013 05:19
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I wonder if we'll still get to see Captain Dog's Falcor mode?
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Oct 9, 2013 13:47
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EvilTaytoMan posted:I wonder if we'll still get to see Captain Dog's Falcor mode? Please quit implanting the idea that we're going to get a Falcor transformation captain. There's no way that Kubo can live up to that expectation and you just know it's actually going to just be a different way to press his sword instead.
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Oct 9, 2013 13:56
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Gyges posted:Please quit implanting the idea that we're going to get a Falcor transformation captain. There's no way that Kubo can live up to that expectation and you just know it's actually going to just be a different way to press his sword instead. Well yeah, obviously. I just meant if we'll get to see whatever he was trying to get, now that presumably he'll be back to normal like the others, and therefore no need to actually show it off.
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Oct 9, 2013 16:03
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The Mangapanda chapter made specific reference to antibodies against hollow spiritual power, and that Quincies don't have them. It's not that Quincies are another species, or unable to breath the same air as hollow, or anything like that. It's specifically that if Hollow spiritual power gets into a Quincy's soul, his soul doesn't have the spiritual antibodies to stop the Hollow power from destroying it. There's no reason to think that the one dude eating a hollow would let any hollow power into his soul, and there's no reason to think that just being near/fighting hollows would put hollow power into their souls.
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Oct 9, 2013 16:12
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Kild posted:Urahara was last seen working on the badges in Hueco Mundo surrounded by a few hollow allies. I'm not sure how its sudden or unexpected that the smartest man in the story who had stolen a badge uses hollow stuff to counteract quincy when its already been established that Quincy and Hollows are opposites. What did you expect him to do with the Quincy badge? Every indicator pointed to Urahara fixing it sometime in the future. Because there isn't any internal logic that leads you to believe he's solved the problem, much less reduced it down to pill form teleported directly to the affected parties locations. It doesn't matter which literary device you ascribe it to - all you need to question is whether you looked at your monitor when you read the chapter and said, "huh, he pulled that out of his rear end."
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Oct 9, 2013 16:23
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Also because it invalidates the entire idea of the captain's training to win using something other than their bankais - though they fact they were getting their asses handed to them outside Mayuri, who apparently won off-screen given that he was able to have a relaxed chat with Urahara this chapter also does this.
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Oct 9, 2013 16:33
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