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kastein posted:One case where it really, really does NOT help is offroad in soft soil, where wheels sliding is sometimes the only way you're going to stop in time. A friend of mine nearly went over a ledge backwards a few years back because he hadn't pulled the fuses for his ABS, and it freaked out when he stomped on the brakes and wouldn't let him lock the tires up. The next time, he had absolutely no problems with it disabled. If only the carmakers thought to include a special brake just for these sorts of emergencies
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Oct 8, 2013 21:46
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Snowdens Secret posted:If only the carmakers thought to include a special brake just for these sorts of emergencies You mean the parking brake that only engages half your brakes, and the half that's under less of the vehicle weight, at that?
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Oct 8, 2013 21:53
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Citroen had you covered there buddy  And I completely fail to find a picture of the front brakes of my bx, with front handbrake 
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Oct 8, 2013 22:00
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What about stuff like Active Yaw Control that basically makes you able to turn faster?
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Oct 8, 2013 22:02
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jamal posted:Well I don't think it can actually decouple the steering wheel from the rack. I expect it's more like it gives you a "suggested" steering angle that you could overpower fairly easily. No. It actually decouples the steering wheel from the rack. In reality, the wheel is never connected to the rack on any of the hybrid vehicles or any current lexus model or the landcruiser with VGRS. The steering wheel spins a precision magnetic wheel which is picked up by a sensor which in turn is used by the electric steering module to calculate how to steer. Any weight in the steering wheel is put there artificially by feedback system similar to what's used in arcade driving games to weigh up the steering and is completely false. When an ESC event takes place the ESC module takes priority over the driver steering input, it is in no way shape or form a 'suggestion'. I've come out of a petrol station in the pissing rain in a lexus and stamped the accelerator to deliberately provoke a slide. The car steered into it perfectly and straightened me out despite me giving it inputs to do otherwise. The feeling is significantly different to a car using individual wheel braking/horsepower limiting to achieve the same thing in a more primitive way. They get around the legislation preventing steer-by-wire by having a spring-loaded splined pin between the two shafts. If the VGRS experiences any kind of problem whatsoever, the solenoid holding the pin back deactivates and the pin shoots forward and physically locks the wheel to the rack. The VGRS then goes into limp mode and behaves like normal MDPS, merely assisting instead of doing all the work. It isn't pleasant when it happens, the steering ratio is hilariously lacking in leverage for normal steering.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:09
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kastein posted:You mean the parking brake that only engages half your brakes, and the half that's under less of the vehicle weight, at that? My parking brake engages all 4 wheels  Well, actually none of the wheels, but it locks the drive shaft.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:11
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Well at least there is a mechanical failsafe but even so that system kind of creeps me out a bit.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:11
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Motronic posted:My parking brake engages all 4 wheels My FJ40's parking brake would do that if it hadn't been ruined by leaking transmission oil sometime around the Carter administration
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Oct 8, 2013 22:15
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rscott posted:Well at least there is a mechanical failsafe but even so that system kind of creeps me out a bit. The brakes are also by wire. The brake pedal is attached to a sensor inside the 'master cylinder' (an assembly the size of my head). This signal is interpreted by the esc module which uses an electric pump to generate the appropriate hydraulic pressure and sends it to the appropriate wheel. A similar feedback system to the steering is used to simulate brake pedal resistance. This is the only way a hybrid vehicle can juggle actual brakes and the engine braking offered by the motor-generator system in a way that makes x pedal travel equate to x braking every time, consistently. Again, lexus and landcruiser have this system standard; I haven't been at Toyota for a couple of years so I can't speak for the latest ordinary cars. Again, there's a fail-safe where if the entire system fails, the rod inside the sensor area is able to ram forward and engage an actual (extremely poor and ineffective) hydraulic piston like a normal car. This is why you can't fit brake pads or bleed brakes on a prius without using a scan tool; you have to bleed the hydraulic pump and you have to re-calibrate the sensor or the brakes feel really funny and poo poo. Taxis have this problem frequently because the driver just gets some random oval office to do the brakes then limps into a dealer getting pissy.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:16
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rscott posted:Well at least there is a mechanical failsafe but even so that system kind of creeps me out a bit.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:21
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kastein posted:
This is like a pickup truck designed by Dr Seuss. Slavvy posted:...This is why you can't fit brake pads or bleed brakes on a prius without using a scan tool; you have to bleed the hydraulic pump and you have to re-calibrate the sensor or the brakes feel really funny and poo poo. Taxis have this problem frequently because the driver just gets some random oval office to do the brakes then limps into a dealer getting pissy. Sounds like a great way to guarantee that people will bring their car to the dealer for basic service too. Win/win for Toyota. Disgruntled Bovine fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 22:51
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SierraEchoBravo posted:To add to the ABS/TC discussion, I can say I'd much rather have every car have some sort of modern ABS system because as mentioned before not everyone is an F1 driver in terms of reaction time and driver ability. Not only because I'm not Sebastien Vettel, but I want at least reduced chance of any of the chucklefucks around New England slamming into me. Don't feel bad. Even F1 drivers benefited from ABS and Traction control, so much so that those systems along with active suspensions were banned in 1994. Look up the Williams FW15C for more details.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:05
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), but if it can help some other hapless motorist in preventing an accident that takes out my car than I'm all for it.
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:This is like a pickup truck designed by Dr Seuss. Nah. Right to repair et al means modern scan tools can do stuff like this.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:07
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Slavvy posted:No. It actually decouples the steering wheel from the rack. That scares me enough that I don't think I'll ever get behind the wheel of a modern Toyota again.
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Oct 9, 2013 01:13
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Das Volk posted:That scares me enough that I don't think I'll ever get behind the wheel of a modern Toyota again. Possibly it's because you don't trust these newfangled contraptions, and whack them with your cane as frequently as possible. Possibly because you've bought a self-driving Toyota Tundra to tow your car overnight to the racetrack while you sleep in the back and wake up refreshed and ready for a full track day, instead of having to get up at the asscrack of dawn, or take a full day off work stay in a lovely bedbug ridden motel near the track. I'm firmly on the other side of the technology fence. I'm OK with a steer-by-wire system that keeps the car totally in line in the rain (or snow) for the average driver in 2014 - if it means that it keeps the car in line for the idiot 17 year old who's driving that same car in 2020. 'Course, that means that I'm also firmly in the camp of similar technology that can keep new 911 drivers from backing their cars into trees at 70 mph. Or...can it? The looming reality (as I see it) is that drivers will actually exert less control over the vehicle in the coming years, and as a result, roads will get progressively safer, insurance costs will decrease, traffic will get better (cars that have microsecond reaction times, and are in communication with the next 20 cars ahead of them can follow FAR more closely at a much higher speed than any human driver), and most of us in AI will have our 'commuter' car (which we may have as a service, like our cellphones) and our 'race' car with collector plates on it, which we use only occasionally. Terrible for us? Maybe. Better for society overall? poo poo yes. I pass too goddamn many crosses covered in flowers planted by the side of the road every day.
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Oct 9, 2013 01:43
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Must be nice to have 4 wheel discs and ABS brakes eh? I'll tell you, though, you guys complaining about ABS must never have driven 4 wheel drums. Every rainy day is a 50/50 chance I am going to die. Seriously. There's the lackluster stopping power, the heat buildup, the inconsistent brake feel, the VERY consistent brake fade, nearly complete inability to brake when wet and the ever present danger of both brake lockup (which is easy enough to achieve that you can definitely "accidentally" do it) and catastrophic brake failure (one master cylinder). ABS and modern discs are godsend as compare to my 50 year old braking system, and unless you're racing your car I find it hard to believe that there's a good reason not to have them.
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Oct 9, 2013 02:15
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I saw the archetypal wursted-out VW again today. It's evolving. I am almost entirely sure it's not self-aware enough to be ironic. The front license plate is no longer mounted to the left side of the bumper with brass hinges; it has been replaced there by a shittily bolted on tow hook with a front drift charm. He has replaced his sun visor with it. I assume that he no longer has the option of raising his sun visor.  Better view of "visor". He has at least two O'Reilly stickers on the car...  ...and at least three FrostWire stickers, including the one stuck on the dashboard next to the Despicable Me thing. Who the gently caress puts stickers for a Bittorrent client on their loving car?  I haven't counted the shocker stickers. The last time I saw this car, there were six.  Two of those "F" trochoid stickers, whatever they are. He's rattlecanned the roof black.  Four Frostwire stickers.  Wheel in the back seat, and "tartan" rear deck cover. I'm not sure if the cloth there matches the pattern and colors on the seats or not. Edit: also, what appears to be a third bucket seat? I don't know if this car naturally has a fold-down seat-and-a-half on the right there.  Five Frostwire stickers total, now, along with an additional two shocker stickers, the rear drift charm, and some overspray and weird paint damage on the bumper. Either it's black plastidip or he bought a shiny VW emblem to replace the one he painted black.  Smoked marker lights and red wheel, complete with overspray on the tire.  Rear drift charm. And, finally, to top it all off...  a mis-sized, damaged carbon fiber applique over the fuel filler door. Check out the parts where he had to cut smaller pieces to make it fit. atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 02:26
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atomicthumbs posted:Two of those "F" trochoid stickers, whatever they are. He's rattlecanned the roof black. Those would be Firestone stickers. Dear god.
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Oct 9, 2013 03:40
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atomicthumbs posted:I saw the archetypal wursted-out VW again today. It's evolving. I am almost entirely sure it's not self-aware enough to be ironic. Just nuke it from orbit. God drat it, what a waste of a VW. Taking bets as to how BADLY maintained that drivetrain is, compared to all the money spent on lovely stickers, rattlecans, and plastidip. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 03:45
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Those stickers are misleading. Everyone knows a real lowered car can't go full lock because the wheels would bang against the fender 
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Oct 9, 2013 03:45
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Can you get those stickers as a big pack now? Because I've seen several cars with the rear quarter window filled with random brand stickers stuck all over eachother in a suspiciously manufactured-looking way. Is it just a bundle you buy or something that lets you quickly cover an entire window with garbage? Is it a trend I'm completely unaware of?
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Oct 9, 2013 03:48
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SaNChEzZ posted:Those stickers are misleading. Everyone knows a real lowered car can't go full lock because the wheels would bang against the fender The best part is the 'Built Not Bought' Sticker and my response is:  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2013 03:48
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Kenny Rogers posted:'Course, that means that I'm also firmly in the camp of similar technology that can keep new 911 drivers from backing their cars into trees at 70 mph. Or...can it? PSM = Please Save Me. Newer 911s will tolerate a tremendous amount of pathological control input without swapping ends.
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Oct 9, 2013 04:28
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CommieGIR posted:The best part is the 'Built Not Bought' Sticker So I want to print this out, and use it as under-wiper flyers for every car I see with the "built not bought" sticker.
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Oct 9, 2013 04:47
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11BulletCatcher posted:Must be nice to have 4 wheel discs and ABS brakes eh? I'll tell you, though, you guys complaining about ABS must never have driven 4 wheel drums. Every rainy day is a 50/50 chance I am going to die. Seriously. There's the lackluster stopping power, the heat buildup, the inconsistent brake feel, the VERY consistent brake fade, nearly complete inability to brake when wet and the ever present danger of both brake lockup (which is easy enough to achieve that you can definitely "accidentally" do it) and catastrophic brake failure (one master cylinder). ABS and modern discs are godsend as compare to my 50 year old braking system, and unless you're racing your car I find it hard to believe that there's a good reason not to have them. Sounds like you need to upgrade to a dual circuit master cylinder, new tires, and to not follow so closely. Old cars are fine if you keep them somewhat safe and drive them appropriately.
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Oct 9, 2013 05:04
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In what is maybe a first for this thread, the blue Civic I posted pictures of a while back has ditched the white 0 offset steelies that stuck past the fender a good 3 inches for some properly backspaced white Enkei RPF1s. Baby steps... .
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Oct 9, 2013 05:27
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atomicthumbs posted:I saw the archetypal wursted-out VW again today. It's evolving. I am almost entirely sure it's not self-aware enough to be ironic.
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Oct 9, 2013 05:57
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I just noticed what appears to be red spraypaint overspray on the calipers. Jesus christ.
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Oct 9, 2013 06:36
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I found myself saying "dude, just stop" at each one of those VW pictures. ..and this comes from someone who drove this 5 years ago:   The turning point was when my sister described my car as having "clown wheels and an underwear interior". I've had a steady recovery since then.
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Oct 9, 2013 06:53
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Raluek posted:Sounds like you need to upgrade to a dual circuit master cylinder, new tires, and to not follow so closely. Old cars are fine if you keep them somewhat safe and drive them appropriately. Tires will follow, I'm gonna hold off on the dual cylinder for now, not sure how original I want to keep the car. I definitely give all traffic, and especially shitboxes, a VERY wide berth. But drums are weak braking systems in the heavy rain cycle that is Florida, and there's no way around it... but I like the way they feel. I dunno, I just feel like I have a more solid connection to the road. Discs are nice to have though. Just not nice enough for my to bother converting. I drive like an old lady... until I see a nice, beautiful straight with no traffic. But Florida traffic is scary man, people just weave through lanes like they are in a race or something. 11BulletCatcher fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Oct 9, 2013 |
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Oct 9, 2013 07:04
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atomicthumbs posted:The front license plate is no longer mounted to the left side of the bumper with brass hinges; it has been replaced there by a shittily bolted on tow hook with a front drift charm. He has replaced his sun visor with it. I assume that he no longer has the option of raising his sun visor. This seems like a really great use for a front license plate. Just put it away for red light cameras / toll lanes. Or something. gently caress.
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Oct 9, 2013 07:57
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NoWake posted:The turning point was when my sister described my car as having "clown wheels and an underwear interior". I've had a steady recovery since then. I'm told that's called an 'intervention'.
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Oct 9, 2013 08:38
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How can this generation of kids not know how to cut springs? Shameful.
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Oct 9, 2013 12:14
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11BulletCatcher posted:Tires will follow, I'm gonna hold off on the dual cylinder for now, not sure how original I want to keep the car. I definitely give all traffic, and especially shitboxes, a VERY wide berth. But drums are weak braking systems in the heavy rain cycle that is Florida, and there's no way around it... but I like the way they feel. I dunno, I just feel like I have a more solid connection to the road. Discs are nice to have though. Just not nice enough for my to bother converting. Hate to break it to you, but nobody really cares about the originality of a four-door, especially something as easily-reversible as that. Get a drum-drum dual master cylinder and maybe you won't plow into a Yaris and kill yourself the next time a single wheel cylinder pops. I DD'd a four-wheel-drum brake car for a while and it was the single best thing I did to it.
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Oct 9, 2013 12:30
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Slavvy posted:
I know there are failsafes but this freaks me the gently caress out. I'm usually an enthusiastic technophile but this just seems, well, wrong.
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Oct 9, 2013 14:07
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 This braintrust decided that it was a good idea to plastidip their tail lights , Im sure this will turn out well for them. 
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Oct 9, 2013 14:31
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plecostomus posted:I know there are failsafes but this freaks me the gently caress out. I'm usually an enthusiastic technophile but this just seems, well, wrong. Then don't drive any car made after 1980.
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Oct 9, 2013 14:41
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Erays3r posted:
Wait. What? How the....? But, the light.... Next pic will be of it smashed in after someone rear-ends it at a stop sign at night.
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Oct 9, 2013 14:44
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Kill-9 posted:Wait. What? How the....? But, the light.... One can only hope.
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Oct 9, 2013 14:51
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plecostomus posted:I know there are failsafes but this freaks me the gently caress out. I'm usually an enthusiastic technophile but this just seems, well, wrong. I'm curious if you've ever stepped foot in an even remotely modern commercial airliner.
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Oct 9, 2013 14:51
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