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Fix posted:GOP Congressmen. It's just odd because there seems to be such a discordance of message between Fox and their benficiaries. I suppose it makes sense when you consider it's Fox recognizing that the shutdown is a shitshow that makes the GOP look increasingly horrible, so even though it's their team's whole game right now, they will shift their coverage to "look Obamacare website computer glitches" instead and ignore the elephant in the room, so to speak.
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Oct 12, 2013 04:56
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A very good friend of mine is a hysterical republican who is great aside from politics but will message me To pick a fight and then get really mad, call me names and say a bunch of mean poo poo and then refuse to admit he did anything wrong. Each time I simy end it by saying his behavior has been unacceptable and he can either apologize or lose my number. Each time he has, but still does it. Last time he tried to do this I told him I wouldn't participate because of the aforementioned and he got mad and said a bunch of mean things without there even being an argument. Waiting for his apology any day. It's some kind if bizarre disease they contract from the right.
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Oct 12, 2013 05:40
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Lycus posted:We should start a support group. Sign me up. My dad was a pretty normal (though still basically conservative) guy until retirement. Now he refers to the president as simply "the friend of the family".
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Oct 12, 2013 05:41
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Lycus posted:We should start a support group.
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Oct 12, 2013 05:42
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Funny really, when you think about it. The fairness doctrine was bargained away during a (very brief one day) shutdown, giving us all this madness today.
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Oct 12, 2013 06:04
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Hell, at this rate we could create a D&D E/N subforum for it. I think crack has destroyed more families than RW media, but its probably a near thing.
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Oct 12, 2013 07:05
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Why do you guys bother engaging at all? Why not just laugh, roll your eyes, say "whatever old man" and be done with it? That usually works with people I've known in the cult, essentially treat them like a child making up a story. It doesn't disabuse them of their stupid beliefs but it gets them to shut up about it.
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Oct 12, 2013 07:12
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Genuinely true. Condescending dismissal really does make people consider their views more than direct refutation. The problem is sometimes arguing with people just sucks you in. It isn't only right-wingers who find righteous indignation thrilling.
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Oct 12, 2013 07:15
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OAquinas posted:Hell, at this rate we could create a D&D E/N subforum for it. I think crack has destroyed more families than RW media, but its probably a near thing. Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Oct 12, 2013 |
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Oct 12, 2013 07:35
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My parents have always been staunchly conservative, and had me convinced they were right up until a few years ago; I'd only started to change after I posted in D&D for the first time around 3 years ago (there was a thread asking people with Republican views to explain why they felt the way they did), said something along the lines of "but those poors on welfare are taking away the jobs", and realized I knew literally nothing about politics when several people challenged me on that idea. During a Christmas visit a year ago, one of my parents were spouting some ridiculous notion about how hypocritical feminists are, and things blew up into a big argument where I called them out on exclusively relying on right-wing media like Fox or Drudge for 100% of their information. At this point, I've realized they aren't going to accept the idea that age does not automatically equal wisdom, and that I'm probably never going to get through to them. As fun as it is to make fun of this right-wing media, it's just depressing knowing how much damage it does to both families and the US (if not the entire world).
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Oct 12, 2013 11:10
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I'm sorry this happened to you all. I wish I could contribute more than that.
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Oct 12, 2013 12:06
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My father is of the "aw shucks" school of conservative, where he holds very conservative beliefs but when challenged on any of it he just tends to go into a "Yeah, well I guess it's complicated" type of response. But then he goes right on believing what he always believed. There are issues on which he's surprised me a few times (acknowledging that immigration isn't a cut-and-dry "send 'em all back to Mexico!" thing and that America was built on immigrants), and thankfully he doesn't bring up politics much at all, so we can get along happily when the wife and me visit home. He IS one of those people who will not stop with the awful right-wing forwarded emails, though. He sends them to everyone, constantly. I've responded with enough snopes/factcheck.org stuff that he basically won't send them specifically to me anymore (my four siblings still get inundated, I'm sure). But if he thinks an email is "funny," even if it's horribly sexist/racist/mischaracterizes liberals I'll still get it sent my way. In all honesty, how much do those stupid forwarded emails inform a chunk of the right-wing voters? My dad only watches the generic evening news, doesn't put on Fox or anything, and listens to classical music on public radio, but very much avoids talk-radio. These emails that he gets from other relatives and then passes on are about the most politically skewed media that he takes in with any regularity. I'm really curious to what extent this is true elsewhere as well.
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Oct 12, 2013 13:01
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It sounds like we need to establish a satirical "It Gets Better" site for people dealing with brainwashed friends and family, heh.
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Oct 12, 2013 13:03
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TotalHell posted:In all honesty, how much do those stupid forwarded emails inform a chunk of the right-wing voters? They're somewhere between letters to the editor and what they think the bible says in terms of importance.
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Oct 12, 2013 13:23
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comes along bort posted:Why do you guys bother engaging at all? Why not just laugh, roll your eyes, say "whatever old man" and be done with it? That usually works with people I've known in the cult, essentially treat them like a child making up a story. It doesn't disabuse them of their stupid beliefs but it gets them to shut up about it. If we're trading ideas I've always had luck with "did the people that told you that also sell you a tinfoil hat?" I don't even try to refute any of their beliefs because when you do they immediately see a confrontation and will do whatever it takes to win and drat the consequences. I try to get them to see themselves labeled as a crazy.
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Oct 12, 2013 15:25
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I've posted about it before, but it really is possible to get people out of that brainwashed cult of Limbaugh/Beck, but it takes refuting them on every single topic daily for a long time. No one rethinks their entire worldview based on a single argument/encounter. You can do it nicely or be a total condescending dick about it, but if you're being a condescending dick, they're probably just going to stop being around you. And if you're not going to be able to be there constantly (or there aren't other people arguing with them), then there's not much point trying. Basically, you can do it for family you live with or near or really close friends, but for extended family, it's probably best just to laugh and not engage them seriously in debate.
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Oct 12, 2013 15:44
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comes along bort posted:Why do you guys bother engaging at all? Why not just laugh, roll your eyes, say "whatever old man" and be done with it? That usually works with people I've known in the cult, essentially treat them like a child making up a story. It doesn't disabuse them of their stupid beliefs but it gets them to shut up about it. Because they often seek validation/confrontation and will push until they get it. They heard their favorite pundits describe in glorious detail how they utterly humiliated a silly hippie liberal with a sharp talking point and likely want to savor the experience. A few weeks ago our local crazy-conservative magazine, Veja, had a red-bashing article about an american settlement that failed (the whole Roanoke thing), claiming that it went bust because it was communist in nature and the settlers had no ambition and drive, which only capitalism can offer. My father kept hounding me for day for comment, since I speak english and have been to the US longer than him. He made parallels about how it was the same thing with Brazil, how the current government's aid programs also ruined people's drive to work hard, that I shouldn't be so mindless of the terrible state of things. Eventually I just sighed and said the whole Roanoke thing happened when Marx wasn't even a gleam in his father's eye, so it was a bit hard to blame communist dogma for the whole thing, and that not starving to death was probably a better incentive to get things right than a 10% larger paycheck once the chips are down. I finished by saying that he should know that the magazine was basically desperate to please older cranks and he should take things with a grain of salt. He was a bit chastised for a day or so, in a "well, that's your opinion, I guess" sort of way, then went right back to it with a chain letter he got on the e-mail about Brazil being infiltrated be communists from Bolivia and Venezuela. P.S- I bet cranky e-mails work at least as well as the larger Right Wing Media glitterati lineup. A few years ago my father forwarded me an e-mail of idiotic statements supposedly made by Luis Inacio da Silva, our former president, who is by his own admission a man of limited learning, but who is a fairly competent speaker. Here's the thing: They were Dan Quayle quotes. You know the ones I'm talking about. Someone just translated them, shifted the words a little here and there, and attributed them to their local leftie nemesis. It really boggles my mind to think of the sort of person who would do this.
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Oct 12, 2013 16:58
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Sephyr posted:A few weeks ago our local crazy-conservative magazine, Veja, had a red-bashing article about an american settlement that failed (the whole Roanoke thing), claiming that it went bust because it was communist in nature and the settlers had no ambition and drive, which only capitalism can offer. My father kept hounding me for day for comment, since I speak english and have been to the US longer than him. He made parallels about how it was the same thing with Brazil, how the current government's aid programs also ruined people's drive to work hard, that I shouldn't be so mindless of the terrible state of things. That's hilarious given the lost colony was a military expedition as part of an overall campaign against the Spanish (via looking for sources of gold and silver), who'd established a failed outpost of their own a couple decades earlier.
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Oct 12, 2013 17:12
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I have no idea where this stuff comes from, even the WSJ type people have acknowledged that Brazil is an emerging market powerhouse.
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Oct 12, 2013 17:32
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Zwabu posted:The glimpses I've seen of Fox News these last few days seem to show them bashing Obamacare 24/7. Now that it's available for purchase their last ditch attempt to stop people from realizing what it is and what it actually does is to tell them to just not even go to the site. They also think if young people don't sign up it's going to tank the whole thing...good thing they took a lesson from the last two elections and learned how to talk to people under the age of 50...or not. There were congress-peeps who were in on this effort for a bit but they don't want to say Obamacare anymore because of the poll numbers on what people think about a government shutdown caused by yet another Obamacare tantrum.
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Oct 12, 2013 17:39
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OAquinas posted:Hell, at this rate we could create a D&D E/N subforum for it. I think crack has destroyed more families than RW media, but its probably a near thing. I think there is a substantial market overlap between amphetamines and the Right Wing Media. You've got truckers taking go-pills and listening to Rush, and you know Rand Paul's appeal to give felons voting rights is aimed at the rural meth demographic.
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Oct 12, 2013 17:51
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TotalHell posted:My father is of the "aw shucks" school of conservative, where he holds very conservative beliefs but when challenged on any of it he just tends to go into a "Yeah, well I guess it's complicated" type of response. But then he goes right on believing what he always believed. There are issues on which he's surprised me a few times (acknowledging that immigration isn't a cut-and-dry "send 'em all back to Mexico!" thing and that America was built on immigrants), and thankfully he doesn't bring up politics much at all, so we can get along happily when the wife and me visit home. Yeah, my father is similar. He doesn't absorb right wing media and takes bullshit "I think they're all bad!" stance, and then proceeds to vote straight-ticket Republican. What's funny is that he's non-religious, works for the federal government and living in El Paso, has a pretty favorable view of immigration (considering 90% of the people he interacts with are first, second or third generation Mexican immigrants). He's essentially everything the Republican Party now loathes, but it's too late to change allegiances and admit that your party is a big bag of poo poo I guess.
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Oct 12, 2013 18:55
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McDowell posted:I think there is a substantial market overlap between amphetamines and the Right Wing Media. You've got truckers taking go-pills and listening to Rush, and you know Rand Paul's appeal to give felons voting rights is aimed at the rural meth demographic. Lyapunov Unstable fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 12, 2013 |
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Oct 12, 2013 19:05
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Count me among the ranks of people whose conservative but okay dads went loving crazy upon retirement. My dad watches Fox News all day. When he drives, it's Rush. Luckily he is completely computer illiterate or I'm sure Drudge and Freep would poisoning his mind as well. Luckily he hasn't degenerated to the point where I can't be around him anymore -- he and I can usually agree to disagree and drop the subject, but god drat does he have terrible opinions. The worst is that nothing seems to get through. Like last week he called me and the topic of  THE SHUTDOWN and THE TROOPS not being allowed into memorials in DC and how it as all 0bummers fault and he hates the troops. I explained to him the actual reason that the monuments have been closed - that we need security on site to prevent vandalism and someone to clean up everyone's trash, and those people have been furloughed so it makes sense to close the whole thing down - and he was like "oh, that makes sense actually" and then we talked about football for a while.The very next day he brought up what an outrage it was that THE TROOPS weren't allowed to go to their own monuments. Jesus Christ. The weird thing about this issue in particular is that my dad is from loving Canada and has refused to get US citizenship despite being here for close to 40 years. Like, why should he give a poo poo about this at all? Of course, he wouldn't, except that was what the noise machine was howling about. At least he can't vote! On the plus side, in overhearing dinner table arguments I've had with my dad, my brother has come around to become a pretty left wing guy so it's not all bad I guess 
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Oct 12, 2013 21:05
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XyloJW posted:I've posted about it before, but it really is possible to get people out of that brainwashed cult of Limbaugh/Beck, but it takes refuting them on every single topic daily for a long time. No one rethinks their entire worldview based on a single argument/encounter. You can do it nicely or be a total condescending dick about it, but if you're being a condescending dick, they're probably just going to stop being around you. And if you're not going to be able to be there constantly (or there aren't other people arguing with them), then there's not much point trying. In my experience, this doesn't work even for close family unless you by some bit of luck have more access to them than Fox and RW Radio. Even if you can deflate one Right Wing Outgrage Of The Day, they'll have internalized 2-3 more overnight. Unless you have the time to constantly send them Snopes or Media Matters material and they don't reject it out of hand the only way to break into the bubble is to use the same "oh, that's so precious" tone parents use with older children who still think there's a Tyrannosaurus Rex under their bed. Actively engaging them only reinforces the "you are right, you are smarter, you are a greater American" narrative that is the base of most RW media- if they're really that far gone they're way past the point of ignoring any factual information that doesn't reinforce deeply held beliefs, come from a true and trusted fair and balanced source, and/or divine truth teller on the AM radio. The polite and sometimes subtle mocking method can be dangerous since as far too many people in this thread have found out, at some point the 180 minutes hate these people get from the radio actually becomes more comforting and familiar than their own family. Just like any addiction, you can't convince someone else to quit....they have to want to themselves, and if someone is going out of ther way to gently caress up family holidays they're certainly not at that point.
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Oct 12, 2013 21:56
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When my Dad smugly picked up the term "teachable moment" I knew it was pretty much over. In the beginning, I got his propaganda e-mail forwards (the horribly disgusting, racist, and totally dishonest ones) and I painstakingly debunked every single point with cited sources. It took me hours. His reply: "There's nothing you can say that will ever convince me, because I refuse to trust any of your sources." One last anecdote before I drop this, because it's really making me sad. I'm wondering if I can even stomach going home this year: Just after the first election, my Dad told me that he had totally given up and was horribly disgusted in the "empty suit" because Obama said, "we are not a nation of individuals." That was the last straw or something. I said,"Wow, if he really said that, that would be awful." Then I sat down at my PC, googled the transcript of the speech, and explained that what Obama had actually said was (paraphrasing now, but I read him the text at that moment), "we are not merely a collection of red states and blue states, of republicans and democrats, we are not JUST a nation of individuals, etc." His adult, parental, mature reply? "Oh, you looked it up. Good for you." The sarcasm and derision in his tone was like nothing I'd ever heard from him in my 38 years. I was absolutely astonished. The fact that he'd impugn a man for something he demonstrably never did, nor admit he'd been mistaken in the first place, left me nonplussed. All I could think was, "How do I even reply to that?" poo poo, I'm sorry for airing all of this crap, I need a therapist. I really would like to see research on the damage done to families in the US specifically over right wing propaganda and the tone and tenor of its presentation.
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Oct 12, 2013 22:17
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Dr. Faustus posted:
  Hey there fellow goon. I had the same thing with my dad. Was in a car ride for an hour with him, me, and my best friend. He started doing talking points, and we started breaking it down, with the usual results. After a few minutes, we finally asked "Is there any evidence we could offer for you to change your opinion?", he said "No."It was a long silent ride after that.
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Oct 12, 2013 22:22
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I'm honestly sorry that you all have friends and family that get almost, if not actually emotionally abusive over these things. My family is all fairly liberal; even my polish/irish strictly catholic grandparents were excessively tolerant with their views. I think the worst political argument-fallout that ever happened was that one of my older cousins bought into Rush and College-Republicanism when he was finishing school and was told by my father to 'Shut up with that poo poo already' when talking it over during a dinner after it was obvious no one gave a drat. Nothing ever happened again on either side and no one's feelings were even hurt, so far as I know. We still happily get together for all kinds of events, and there's never been hard feelings in the 15+ years since that happened. In my circle of friends and co-workers I'm probably the farthest left person I know. I'm certainly not militant about it, and I never really even talk about it unless asked directly about my views. The idea that you should constantly spam people with political bullshit and then angrily DEMAND that they accept your position or verbally insult them is just so foreign to me, but you see it CONSTANTLY from conservatives. Maybe its my upbringing, and maybe it's just that I've been lucky to be where I am, but I've never heard of 'extreme leftist-commie hippies' insulting family members during the holidays for not being liberal enough. Yet this is perfectly acceptable to many conservatives. I truthfully do not understand this. I just don't get at ALL the concept that everything would be wonderful and happy if all these talking points came true, and how happy, christian, conservative loving homes would be if everyone just made efforts to be True American Patriots. Also if you disagree, I'm disowning you as a family member you loving pinko subversive human being.
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Oct 12, 2013 22:23
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It can be done. I've been rehabilitating my old man slowly but surely. He's still an irascible old gently caress but his blue-collar union-man mentality is showing through more and more. Be espousing outright socialist ideas like a national minimum income and nationalized (state-ized? city-ized) sports franchises, I've moved his personal Overton window a good deal to the left.
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Oct 12, 2013 22:28
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A Union man?! NO TRUE CONSERVATIVE
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Oct 12, 2013 22:31
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Dr. Faustus posted:poo poo, I'm sorry for airing all of this crap, I need a therapist. Then you've come to the right place! 
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Oct 12, 2013 22:50
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Internet Webguy posted:"I can't get cast in anything anymore so I'm going to use this opportunity to criticize liberals and blame that on the fact that I'm a has-been" is starting to become a trend since Rob Schneider said something similar. Schneider's case is more believable since all he would have to do is say something that offends Adam Sandler directly. bobservo posted:If you listen to Schneider's recent WTF interview, he poses as an intellectual complaining about the "dumbing down" of entertainment -- despite the fact that he's only made DickFart Racist Joke: The Movie. Hey man, you're not allowed to criticize his movies - you've never won a Pulitzer.
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Oct 12, 2013 23:09
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Huh, I guess I'm lucky, my parents are both through and through Democrats; hell, my dad has realized that's he become more radically left after retiring, and he's embraced it. About the only problem is that's he's got a streak of "That new rap poo poo, it's not even music, I miss the good old days of rock" , but he's good on pretty much everything else, so I don't say anything. All three of us vote straight-ticket D, and that's the plan for the foreseeable future, unless the Republican party somehow becomes not-insane. (Good loving luck.) Since we live in Texas, you can chalk us up as the white part of the push to turn Texas blue. We're small in numbers, but yes, we do exist. Ironically, living in San Antonio means that our votes for Democrats actually count somewhat: we all voted for both House Representative Joaquin Castro and our Mayor Julian Castro, who both won their races.
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Oct 12, 2013 23:20
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Adventures from #tcot: https://twitter.com/robfit/status/389164493667717120 quote:Sebelius: We Are Bringing Western Civilization to Its Knees With O-Care (Video) http://shar.es/EcAkz #tcot Go ahead, watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5z7i1H2z7U quote:In a bizarre statement, US Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius said that, "As you know, we're facing the end of the Western Civilization by having a market-based strategy. We are bringing Western Civilization to its knees by selling private insurance plans on a website where people can pick and choose." At face value, this could imply any number of things including a bold-faced admission that Obamacare is the end of the Western Civilization health care system. View the rest of the bizarre and infuriating interview in the link above. She's being ironic, and I honestly feel like I'm being condescending by even writing this, but no, some people apparently did not understand that Reminds me of Shirley Sherrod a bit, actually.
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Oct 13, 2013 00:41
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quote:Sebelius: We Are Bringing Western Civilization to Its Knees With O-Care (Video) http://shar.es/EcAkz #tcot quote:You’ve gotta love how Democrats claim that by forcing your to purchace Obamacare they’re actually giving you choices. What will it take to make these idiots understand that what they call "Obamacare" is actually private sector insurance? And no other choices?? What other choice is there, other than to not buy insurance, in which case if you go to the ER YOU will end up paying the bill instead of an insurance company (if you don't go bankrupt), or the taxpayers will foot the bill through Medicaid. These people bitch about having to pay for the poors using the ER, then they bitch about requiring them to have insurance. There is no pleasing them and it's so goddamn frustrating. Apparently they just want anyone who can't afford health care to curl up and die. Why don't they just come out and say it, these supposedly courageous truth tellers?
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Oct 13, 2013 02:29
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Fulchrum posted:He was purposefully cut from Grown Ups 2. Make of that what you will.
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Oct 13, 2013 02:37
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I heard that Schneider actually held out for more money from Grown Ups 2, at which point Sandler was done with him since his entire career was basically Sandler doing him a favor as a friend and tossing him an undeserved few million to be in his movies.
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Oct 13, 2013 03:10
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Tender Bender posted:I heard that Schneider actually held out for more money from Grown Ups 2, at which point Sandler was done with him since his entire career was basically Sandler doing him a favor as a friend and tossing him an undeserved few million to be in his movies. Which is what Adam Sandler does with everyone in his movies.
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Oct 13, 2013 03:35
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ReindeerF posted:Definitely wasn't for his politics, as Sandler's an out Republican as well. More likely it's because he is no longer funny at all, unfortunately. I used to really enjoy some of his stuff, too. The "you put your WEED in there" skit, for example, is a classic. Steve. The Stevenator. Makin' cop-ies. A real towering giant of comedy Hollywood has thrown upon the trash heap.
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Oct 13, 2013 03:39
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Big Beef City posted:Maybe its my upbringing, and maybe it's just that I've been lucky to be where I am, but I've never heard of 'extreme leftist-commie hippies' insulting family members during the holidays for not being liberal enough. Yet this is perfectly acceptable to many conservatives. I truthfully do not understand this. This supposedly was a thing in the 1970s with young New Left types, and All in the Family basically revolved around two holiday-ruining conservative/liberal stereotypes. I think it really all revolves around the way that certain beliefs, like outright racism, have become socially unacceptable. It was a source of conflict as the process began and young people were uncomfortable with grandpa's rants about black people while everyone else saw it as excessive drama, and now grandpa bringing up such things in the first place ruins the holiday. Aside from that, any ideological group which sees itself as revolutionary (and the Tea Party is revolutionary conservatism for sure) is going to feel more justified in talking down to the proles who just don't understand. The stereotype of Russian communists pre-revolution was similar to that of the "holiday-ruining conservative", as well. Post-Reagan conservatism has had a stranglehold on holiday-ruining recently, though.
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Oct 13, 2013 03:44
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