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Darko posted:Half of Spider-man's villains are way more powerful than him. Sandman, Electro, Venom/Carnage, Doc Ock half the time, he should have no chance of beating. It normally takes his brain on top of his abilities to beat those types. Spider-man has literally single-handedly defeated Megatron in a fight (back when he first wore the cloth black suit), none of his other villains measure up to that. EDIT: 
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Oct 14, 2013 16:59
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Mooseontheloose posted:Not more ambition as much as less control. Well both really. Peter Parker never seem right unless he's just barely keeping everything in his life afloat. For him ambition is being able to close out the week without losing. Thus having someone who wants to win at anything is more ambitious.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:05
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Yoshifan823 posted:I'm sure you're all people who are excited to see Miles Morales in the 616 universe, too. Fffffffuck no. Ultimate Spider-Man has a very well crafted place in the Ultimate universe, with his own set of secondary characters and a great history preceding him. Simply moving him into 616 would be a disaster. That said, doing a simple "character briefly crosses into a alternate reality" story would be fine. Something like 'Spider-Men', which was fantastic. Spider-Men worked because of the great character interactions that highlighted the differences between the two worlds and how Spider-Man existed in them. Darko posted:Half of Spider-man's villains are way more powerful than him. Sandman, Electro, Venom/Carnage, Doc Ock half the time, he should have no chance of beating. It normally takes his brain on top of his abilities to beat those types. To be fair, you aren't giving the character enough credit. While Spider-Man usually wins fights with his brains, his combination of super-strength, super-agility, and reflexes is ridiculously potent on the rare occasions that he gets enraged and just goes to town on someone. If you aren't super-durable, then he could kill you with a single punch if he didn't hold back. Azubah posted:Isn't this the whole point of the Superior Spiderman arc? Shortly after taking over Parker's body and becoming Spider-Man, Doc Ock tears Scorpion's jaw off with a punch. He almost immediately realizes that Peter Parker never fought him without pulling his punches, and that Spider-Man was way more powerful than he ever believed. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 17:10
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DFu4ever posted:Shortly after taking over Parker's body and becoming Spider-Man, Doc Ock tears Scorpion's jaw off with a punch. He almost immediately realizes that Peter Parker never fought him without pulling his punches, and that Spider-Man was way more powerful than he ever believed. Holy poo poo what issue was this?
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Oct 14, 2013 18:00
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DFu4ever posted:Shortly after taking over Parker's body and becoming Spider-Man, Doc Ock tears Scorpion's jaw off with a punch. He almost immediately realizes that Peter Parker never fought him without pulling his punches, and that Spider-Man was way more powerful than he ever believed. Maybe half of the challenge of being Spider-Man is not loving up all the chumps that you have to fight on a weekly basis whenever they bust out of jail or go on their latest "gently caress Spider-Man!" kick?
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Oct 14, 2013 18:06
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ThermoPhysical posted:Holy poo poo what issue was this? I think that was in Amazing Spider-Man #700, right before Superior Spider-Man started. 
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Oct 14, 2013 18:07
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DFu4ever posted:I think that was in Amazing Spider-Man #700, right before Superior Spider-Man started. "So brutal. That poor man." What horrendous dialogue and artwork.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:13
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Aunt May there thinks it's metal as hell but is just keeping up appearances.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:14
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Wade Wilson posted:The thing about Spider-man is that he's just stupidly overpowered for everything he normally fights and the only reason he ever has any trouble is because he's an idiot and/or lazy as hell, even with ridiculous reaction speeds and whatever intelligence level he's supposed to be at (somewhere right around the same level as Tony Stark, but again, Peter is just lazy as hell). I'd never say Peter is as intelligent as Stark, who is generally considered to be one of the super geniuses of the Marvel Universe. But Peter's smarts have never been about being a genius. But it helps his ability to think on his feet and improvise with the resources he has. I also wouldn't say Peter is lazy, though some writers certainly write him as such. He's juggling a personal life and a super hero life and trying desperately to keep them separate. Unlike Tony Stark or Reed Richards, who are rich enough that they can take time off from their day job if they need to super hero it up for a while, Peter can't. It also means he can't just lock himself away in academia to earn a PhD or whatever because he just doesn't have that option because he considers being Spider-Man a responsibility. Tony or Reed have on numerous times called up their friends to be their substitutes if they have to go away, but I don't think Peter really has that option. As for Ock realizing how much Peter holds back, it might be the first time a villain has realized it. But Peter has often commented on how he pulls his punches, epecially when dealing with petty street level crooks.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:49
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DFu4ever posted:To be fair, you aren't giving the character enough credit. While Spider-Man usually wins fights with his brains, his combination of super-strength, super-agility, and reflexes is ridiculously potent on the rare occasions that he gets enraged and just goes to town on someone. If you aren't super-durable, then he could kill you with a single punch if he didn't hold back. I listed characters that were faster and stronger than him, or just ridiculously more powerful (Electro/Sandman). Half of his villains lose just from being too stupid. The others pose a threat because of a mix of situational issues, and the writers forgetting that Spider-man's reflexes are faster than machine gun bullets, so he shouldn't be getting hit by a guy tossing bricks at him.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:06
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In the comics, was Spider-Man even stronger and with organic web shooters when he got the black suit?
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Oct 14, 2013 19:40
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The cartoon made him stronger. The black suit just improved his spider-sense a little and gave him "free" webbing (in the comics).
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Oct 14, 2013 19:55
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When the suit was an alien, yes. He also found that strength more difficult to control as the symbiote was aggressive.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:55
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mind the walrus posted:When the suit was an alien, yes. He also found that strength more difficult to control as the symbiote was aggressive. I thought the aggression and strength was only something that the animated series cooked up and now is canon everywhere. I remember it more like Darko is saying. Maybe it was retconned like the Dark Phoenix story line was?
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Oct 14, 2013 21:26
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ThermoPhysical posted:Maybe it was retconned like the Dark Phoenix story line was? The Dark Phoenix stuff has never been retconned. There have been a lot of Phoenix Force related stories since then, but the original storyline still stands.
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Oct 14, 2013 21:32
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ThermoPhysical posted:I thought the aggression and strength was only something that the animated series cooked up and now is canon everywhere. I remember it more like Darko is saying. So what was the original point of the black suit in the comics? If it didn't change his personality or make him stronger/more aggressive etc., was it just there to update his costume a bit?
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Oct 14, 2013 21:59
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WattsvilleBlues posted:So what was the original point of the black suit in the comics? If it didn't change his personality or make him stronger/more aggressive etc., was it just there to update his costume a bit? Sell toys
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Oct 14, 2013 22:13
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DFu4ever posted:The Dark Phoenix stuff has never been retconned. There have been a lot of Phoenix Force related stories since then, but the original storyline still stands. I thought it was retconned a while ago and that it was originally Jean reaching her full potential, becoming overwhelmed by the power and losing it, becoming Dark Phoenix. But since they originally wanted Jean to come back, the then-EIC said he wouldn't allow it as she did a lot of inhumane thigns such as killing the inhabitants of the D'Bari solar system so the Phoenix was created so that it wasn't actually Jean but a Jean-Copy and the real Jean was at the bottom of the Jamaica Bay. I checked around to make sure I wasn't remembering incorrectly (as I'd originally read this a while ago) and it looks like it was retconned but not exactly as I had thought. http://marvel.wikia.com/X-Men_(Earth-616)/Retcons#cite_note-2 http://marvelmasterworksfansite.yuku.com/topic/15785 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/12/15/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-29/ WattsvilleBlues posted:So what was the original point of the black suit in the comics? If it didn't change his personality or make him stronger/more aggressive etc., was it just there to update his costume a bit? From what I remember, he just needed a new costume during the Secret Wars as his original got all shredded so he came across the black costume which was more durable than his original fabric one. He kept it around and it started to make him go out all night and fight and whatnot and he'd always wake up exhausted (this is something that the Spectacular Spider-Man adapted into the symbiote arc). I don't remember much past that but it was mostly a costume replacement that started to overwork his abilities, he learned it was alive, he removed it, it found Eddie who was trying to commit suicide at the time and...yeah.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:15
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ThermoPhysical posted:I checked around to make sure I wasn't remembering incorrectly (as I'd originally read this a while ago) and it looks like it was retconned but not exactly as I had thought. Well, it was retconned in the sense that details of the event were clarified/appended after the fact, but the actual Dark Phoenix event ending with Phoenix Jean Grey sacrificing herself is still canon. It was more of a retcon by addition rather than a retcon by subtraction (pretending something never happened).
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Oct 14, 2013 22:20
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WattsvilleBlues posted:So what was the original point of the black suit in the comics? If it didn't change his personality or make him stronger/more aggressive etc., was it just there to update his costume a bit? Spider-Man's elaborate costume takes a while to draw, symbiote Spidey takes less time to draw, also they wanted to "freshen up" the character.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:01
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DFu4ever posted:Well, it was retconned in the sense that details of the event were clarified/appended after the fact, but the actual Dark Phoenix event ending with Phoenix Jean Grey sacrificing herself is still canon. It was more of a retcon by addition rather than a retcon by subtraction (pretending something never happened). That makes sense, it's more to just add on and clarify (probably more to the EIC than the fans?) so that they could bring Jean back and not have her stay dead.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:03
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notthegoatseguy posted:I'd never say Peter is as intelligent as Stark, who is generally considered to be one of the super geniuses of the Marvel Universe. I think the only time he had that option was during the Clone Saga, when Ben Reilly took over as Spider-Man and Peter retired to focus on raising baby May (who in one universe grew up to be Spider-Girl, and one of the longest-running female superheroes Marvel has ever had, bookwise). Who both then died/disappeared, because status quo is god. WattsvilleBlues posted:So what was the original point of the black suit in the comics? If it didn't change his personality or make him stronger/more aggressive etc., was it just there to update his costume a bit? It was part of the secret wars crossover, which as others have mentioned was to sell toys. One of the 'hooks' of the series was that marvel did a time skip in the main books with several changes that were not explained, so people would buy Secret Wars to find out what they missed. One of which was of course the black costume.
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Oct 15, 2013 12:05
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notthegoatseguy posted:I'd never say Peter is as intelligent as Stark, who is generally considered to be one of the super geniuses of the Marvel Universe. Tony just has a better resume because he had a massive arms development company at his disposal once he got back home from his origin story, while Parker has had to steal technology from science labs whenever he wanted to improve the stuff at his disposal. EDIT: Peter Parker is usually classed in the same group as Stark and Banner, they just have different specialties. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 13:51
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Why has Peter never asked Tony for a job?
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Oct 15, 2013 13:57
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PriorMarcus posted:Why has Peter never asked Tony for a job? Cause Peter hates himself and likes being miserable. The Real reason is that the writers of Peter tend to run out of non enemy based conflict if they can't mine the balancing act that is his life. Also Superior Spider-man(Doc Ock takes over Peter's body) is pretty good. Where Doc Ock is pretty much like gently caress that poo poo and just focuses on being Spider-Man and pretty much ignores everything else. Dexo fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 14:08
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PriorMarcus posted:Why has Peter never asked Tony for a job? Martyr complex.
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Oct 15, 2013 14:44
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PriorMarcus posted:Why has Peter never asked Tony for a job? Because that would stray too far from the "template" Marvel uses to farm Spider-Man out as a property. Same reason they got rid of his marriage. Peter must be perpetually adolescent.
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Oct 15, 2013 14:52
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PriorMarcus posted:Why has Peter never asked Tony for a job? He actually did work for Stark for a time, though that was mostly cover for him and his family living in Stark Tower while he was on the Avengers.
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Oct 15, 2013 15:54
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By all rights Peter ought to be a millionaire in any field he attempts, but the..."conceit"...of the Spider-Man comics is that his role as Spider-Man, along with his sense of responsibility, is always interfering with his personal and professional life. Can't maintain a steady, demanding job if you're always being forced to sneak away to battle crime. Dan Slott recently revealed in Superior Spider-Man that Peter never finished his Master's degree.
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Oct 15, 2013 16:05
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BrianWilly posted:Dan Slott recently revealed in Superior Spider-Man that Peter never finished his Master's degree. It was actually a PhD in Physics. Peter Parker still needed like one credit and his thesis to finish up, but he never got around to it. This enrages Doc Ock when he finds out about it, and he re-enrolls to school immediately. Honestly, Superior Spider-Man is a really entertaining read these days. I'm sure they'll have the real Peter Parker back in his own body within the next year, but its fun watching the Doc Ock Spider-Man just get crazier and crazier the longer he occupies Peter Parker's body.
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Oct 15, 2013 16:50
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BrianWilly posted:Dan Slott recently revealed in Superior Spider-Man that Peter never finished his Master's degree. Can someone clear this up? As far as I understood he never was shown to get his Master's ever since he dropped out of grad school in the 80s. But it seems he did get it at some point? Was there a story attached to this or was it just glossed over?
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Oct 16, 2013 20:49
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It's all in his marvel wikia page. After he breaks Gwen Stacey's neck trying to save her from the Green Goblin he falls apart and takes a vacation. He comes back from France and sees his dead girlfriend walking around. That starts the Clone Saga. It's during that time that he graduates from ESU. As other posters have said Parker never got his PHD due to the struggle of his personal life and his duties as Spider-Man. Octavius, thinking he can be a better Spider-man and Parker than Peter ever was, is furious when he learns this and immediately re-enrols to complete it. The universe, sensing an imbalance, immediately begins making GBS threads on Ock.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:14
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Excelsiortothemax posted:It's all in his marvel wikia page. After he breaks Gwen Stacey's neck trying to save her from the Green Goblin he falls apart and takes a vacation. He comes back from France and sees his dead girlfriend walking around. That starts the Clone Saga. It's during that time that he graduates from ESU. He dropped out of school in the 80s though I'm fairly certain that was a Masters program he dropped out of. He's been graduated from regular college for a while.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:24
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notthegoatseguy posted:He dropped out of school in the 80s though I'm fairly certain that was a Masters program he dropped out of. He's been graduated from regular college for a while. According to Marvel he has his Masters in biophysics from ESU.
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Oct 17, 2013 02:08
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Can someone give me a cliffs notes of how/why Doc Ock is/is inside Spider-Man?
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Oct 17, 2013 16:34
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Terrible Horse posted:Can someone give me a cliffs notes of how/why Doc Ock is/is inside Spider-Man? Dan Slott is a horrible writer.
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Oct 17, 2013 16:37
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Terrible Horse posted:Can someone give me a cliffs notes of how/why Doc Ock is/is inside Spider-Man? You know how there are a million brain-swap stories where a villain swaps bodies with a hero (whether by magic or technology)? Doc Ock did this, then eventually killed Peter while he was in Doc Ock's old body, then lobotomized the portions of his new body's brain that had leftover bits of Parker still there. So basically he's the first villain to successfully do this, but I expect Dr. Strange or Reed Richards to come along and undo this at some point in the future.
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Oct 17, 2013 16:51
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Excelsiortothemax posted:It's all in his marvel wikia page. After he breaks Gwen Stacey's neck trying to save her from the Green Goblin he falls apart and takes a vacation. He comes back from France and sees his dead girlfriend walking around. That starts the Clone Saga. It's during that time that he graduates from ESU. But that's a PhD. He never even got a Master's because he dropped out of grad school - that's what I'm wondering about. Official sources show he has a Master's but when did he re-enrol in grad school to get it?
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Oct 17, 2013 16:55
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Is Parker perma dead? \Or is there part of him that can be restored when Dock Ock is eventually ousted from the web slingers frame? Also is Dock Ock acting as a hero in peters body? Is he learning to be a good person? What is the point of it all from someone who hasn't read this line? Where does it look like they are going with it? I ask because it sounds dumb as gently caress, but when you think about it, what downtrodden person wouldn't want to try a much loved heroic body for a change?
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Oct 17, 2013 18:09
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Is Parker perma dead? \Or is there part of him that can be restored when Dock Ock is eventually ousted from the web slingers frame? Also is Dock Ock acting as a hero in peters body? Is he learning to be a good person? What is the point of it all from someone who hasn't read this line? Where does it look like they are going with it? Can't answer most of this but in response to this: quote:Is Parker perma dead? Absolutely not. There's no way they're getting rid of Peter Parker in the 616. They only could in the Ultimate line because it's not their flagship line. There will be some long-winded bullshit explanation to bring him back that will make you sound insane if you say any part of it out loud, but there will be one. It's as sure a bet as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. As far as I can tell they're positioning a "reign of the Spider-Men" kind-of deal with Ben Reilly, Kaine, Spiderman 2099, and a rumored Miles Morales all appearing in Marvel's NYC recently, so it may be a while, but anyone who has followed Marvel or DC in the last 20 years and seen the revolving door of death in action is just waiting for the inevitable day Parker comes back (likely when sales start to slump).
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Oct 17, 2013 18:19
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