|
I don't know much about shamisen but I don't think it's common to play tsugaru style on anything other than a shamisen. Googling around turned up someone playing tsugaru jongara bushi on a kankara sanshin, which is kind of awesome. If you can do it on a kankara, it's hard for me to believe it would be impossible on a sanshin or gottan. Tsugaru Jongara Bushi...Kankara Sanshin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgDV0lYI4RM
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 08:18 |
|
|
Not a shamisen expert, but from common-sensing it and a little digging on forums, I think a sanshin can certainly be a decent start. My initial guess (which seems generally borne out) is that it's kind of like the difference between getting a banjo for clawhammer/frailing and a banjo for bluegrass. If you find a good deal on a clawhammer banjo (open back), you could buy it, but instead of using the bare fingers you'd get metal fingerpicks like bluegrass players use, and use bluegrass picking style vice clawhammer. You wouldn't have the bright ringing sound that the close-backed resonator banjos have, but you'd be generally able to play bluegrassy stuff. Similarly, sanshin tend to be a bit shorter in the neck, and don't have the same tweaks around the nut that give the shamisen the sawari effect (the light buzzing kind of like a sitar). So the tone would be a little different. Sanshin tend to be tuned around CFC, while shamisen often CGC, but you can tune up one note without hassle. The big difference in gear is that the sanshin bachi (pick) is completely unlike the shamisen bachi. So if you want to specifically be playing shamisen style, get the fan-type bachi. Sanshin:  Shamisen:  You can't go wrong with either the gottan or sanshin, and both are really reasonably priced. The Bachido forum has surprisingly few thread on the "is sanshin an okay cheap substitute for shamisen", but people seem generally fine with the idea, noting that it's not identical but is fundamentally pretty similar.  Definitely update us with whatever you get.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2013 20:19
|
|
|
Quick! How many instruments mentioned in this thread are used in this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZjaqHioro
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2013 21:44
|
|
|
A UK friend of mine is interested in picking up viola da gamba, and while I was digging up info for her I found out that the UK Viola da Gamba Society actually rents out viols for £70 for three months (£56 for students), which sounds really reasonable: http://www.vdgs.org.uk/hire.html The Viola da Gamba Society of America has a higher rental price ($300), but their rentals are for an entire year: http://vdgsa.org/pgs/rental.html FAKEEDIT: Huh, the Bay Area branch has their own rental set for $35/mo, so an easy option if you want to try it for a bit, take a few lessons and see how you get along: http://www.pacificaviols.org/ So for those of you in either country looking to try out a viola da gamba, this could be a useful option. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2013 14:23
|
|
|
Hrm, when I have some spare time I may have a go at making an electric viol de gabma, might be interesting. Are the frets generally fixed or are they moveable?
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2013 14:32
|
|
|
White Dog Eggs posted:Hrm, when I have some spare time I may have a go at making an electric viol de gabma, might be interesting. Are the frets generally fixed or are they moveable? Generally moveable, tied-on frets. I'd imagine you can get some heavy fishline or some other synthetic gut-type material. There are a bunch of tutorials on how to properly tie-on a gamba fret. One nice thing about that is you can nudge them around to adjust the intonation for different baroque temperaments of scale. I think electrics must use a piezo since the strings are non-conductive. And if you used steel strings that's getting back into more cello territory (not that that's necessarily bad). Here's a kind of guitar-viol hybrid for inspiration:  Separate note: I'm trimming back on some extra musical gear, so today or in the next few I'll be posting on SA Mart with a beater but functional 1-row Hohner accordion (a great upgrade for anyone who plays toy accordion now) for only $99 shipped, and I have a spare mini-kinnor (Israelite lyre) that I wouldn't recommend for an adult since the sound isn't very rich, but it'd make a good musical instrument for maybe a kid around 6 or so to experiment with, $25 shipped. Not as a junk "toss in the toybox" instrument, but a decently nice piece a kid can pluck out melodies on with some supervision. I'll add the links here once I get them on SA Mart.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:Generally moveable, tied-on frets. I'd imagine you can get some heavy fishline or some other synthetic gut-type material. There are a bunch of tutorials on how to properly tie-on a gamba fret. One nice thing about that is you can nudge them around to adjust the intonation for different baroque temperaments of scale. I made some tied frets using nylon from a washing line when I made my guitarra latina, worked pretty well! I regret selling that now. TapTheForwardAssist posted:I think electrics must use a piezo since the strings are non-conductive. And if you used steel strings that's getting back into more cello territory (not that that's necessarily bad). You are right about pizeo pickups, however I've had limited success with solid-bodied pizeo instruments as they always sound a bit off, so It's a choice between hollow bodied or steel stringed I guess, any one got any recommendations? TapTheForwardAssist posted:Here's a kind of guitar-viol hybrid for inspiration: That's a good looking thing, wonder what all those knobs do? Separate tone and a master volume I'd guess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2013 19:00
|
|
|
Just wanted to drop into the thread as I kind of went ghost after asking about the Smallpipes. I've had a set for about 3 months now but originally didn't touch it much. A month or so ago I just happened to take a peek at a local craigslist type deal here in Germany and found a guy starting up a pipeband on another nearby base here in Germany. He's been playing for years, so I've been doing weekly lessons with him. I'm starting to get pretty good with the basics and have been practising on a practice chanter during the week to get the fingerings and everything down. We already have a drummer and 2 other guys interested in picking up pipes, so It's going to a be process before we ever get a real 'band' going, but I already read music and all so I have quite a headstart. Just wanted to say thanks TTFA, because bagpipes are awesome and I'm enjoying it a ton. My only other problem is there are so many other instruments in this thread I want to check out and mess around with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
Well, uh...My dad got me an Appalachian dulcimer for my birthday. I had asked for that cardboard kit because it was cheap, hard to screw up on, and came with a helpful little book, and I wasn't even sure I'd like playing it to begin with. But I guess he decided to go the extra mile and he got me a really nice one. This one, in fact. It's beautiful, it's expensive, it has no book, and I'm just sitting here looking at it and feeling way too intimidated to even touch it. (And feeling like the world's most ungrateful child.  )So...any advice? Am I being ridiculous for feeling intimidated by it? I have In Search of the Wild Dulcimer open in another tab, but I haven't started looking through it yet. (I've also started seeing comments on forums about how this one isn't even worth the money compared to the cardboard one, and oh poo poo, I'm freaking out too much to keep looking now.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2013 21:50
|
|
|
Visteri posted:Well, uh...My dad got me an Appalachian dulcimer for my birthday. I played dulcimer for a while and then kind of let it go when I got tied up with other things. I suggest that you check out and/or join the Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer forum (http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/forum) and possibly also the Everything Dulcimer Forum (http://everythingdulcimer.com/). These will help point you in the right direction as far as what style you want to play and what you want to do with the dulcimer. Ask lots of questions, as most of the folks are friendly. I know the main mod/lady who runs Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer. She goes by Strumelia (real name Lisa; tell her Genford says 'hi'). She has a great Youtube channel with a lot of dulcimer tutorial vids that will help you get started and make the whole thing less intimidating. Do you know if your dulcimer has a noter (a small wooden, plastic, bone or glass dowel)? There is a specific style of playing that uses the noter (it is kind of the older, more traditional style, but somewhat restrictive) and I recommend anyone who starts out at least try noter style or watch some videos of noter style playing to see if they like it. It gives the dulcimer a fiddle/bagpipe-ish sounds that I really dug. If you PM me your address and contact info, I may have some old books that I don't need that I can send you. Also, let me know if you have a noter or not, as I have some extras I could send you if you want. Good luck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2013 22:30
|
|
|
wodan22 posted:I played dulcimer for a while and then kind of let it go when I got tied up with other things. I suggest that you check out and/or join the Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer forum (http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/forum) and possibly also the Everything Dulcimer Forum (http://everythingdulcimer.com/). These will help point you in the right direction as far as what style you want to play and what you want to do with the dulcimer. Ask lots of questions, as most of the folks are friendly. I know the main mod/lady who runs Friends of the Mountain Dulcimer. She goes by Strumelia (real name Lisa; tell her Genford says 'hi'). She has a great Youtube channel with a lot of dulcimer tutorial vids that will help you get started and make the whole thing less intimidating. That was another problem I forgot about : this one doesn't come with a noter and the kit does, which is another reason I wanted the kit. I love how noter-style dulcimer sounds. I really appreciate your offer but I don't have PMs here, so it would probably be cheaper if I just bought a noter. Time to check out those forums now. Thanks again!
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2013 23:52
|
|
|
Visteri posted:Thank you so much for the advice. Depending on how handy you are, you could probably make a noter (or find something cheap at the hardware store that you can use as a noter). It literally is just a small wooden dowel (just a cylindrical piece of wood, maybe the size of a piece of chalk). Lots of dulcimer players make their own or improvise them out of stuff they can get their hands on. Ask around on the forums and they can make suggestions. Also, some people on the forums make and sell these beautiful handmade noters that are turned on a lathe and are works of art. There is also an ebay store called Carrot Creek that used to sell handmade lathe turned noters. I just checked and they are out of them right now, but contact them or keep checking back. Playing with the noter is a bit more challenging than just fretting with your hands, but I think it sounds way better. So, watch tons of vids, keep practicing, and don't give up. You'll figure it out eventually. Good luck!
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 00:08
|
|
|
Here's something I'm going to get through Ebay in a few weeks. It's already in transit. It's an older chord harmonica with 6 sets of 8 holes instead of 12 or 24. To get a full chord harmonica like I wanted to would be about $1000-2000 too much for me right now, so I'm looking forward to this item instead. I didn't know they came in 6 sets of holes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 01:21
|
|
|
Visteri posted:Thank you so much for the advice. I have been using a wooden spoon. I actually just bought a dulcimer two days ago that was in a corner of a Northside Cincinnati music shop. Six string teardrop made by John T. Tignor. Has friction pegs, which I find pretty charming for being such a pain in the rear end.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 10:24
|
|
|
You all are dragging my out of dulcimer lurking. TTFA helped me get one of the fabled $100 ebay dulcimers, and I've been waiting until I could actually play something before showing off. I'm trying to learn a fully chorded, noter and drone, and backing chord song to play with the three major ways you can use them. Songs I chose: Chorded: http://everythingdulcimer.com/tab/AranBoatSong.pdf Noter and drone: http://www.dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2012/08/trader-boatman.html Backing chords (also can be played fully chorded): http://everythingdulcimer.com/tab/Squid_Jigging_Ground.pdf I'll see if I can get a vid recorded and edit it into this post, I'm close to being able to do justice to Trader Boatman.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2013 01:46
|
|
|
Speaking of duclimers, I've been thinking of making a plucked psaltery recently, does anyone have any ideas or recommendations for me regarding size, shape or number of strings?
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2013 12:22
|
|
|
I moved halfway acrossed the world in january and have been toying with learning the concertina ever since. Picked up a nice green child prodigy toy accordion to convince myself one way or other and I've enjoyed tooling around on it but two things are keeping me from giving it a fair go. Firstly, the air issue - I've already taped off one set of reeds but I'm still struggling to have enough air doing simple stuff. How hard would it be to try and seal off the bellows myself? I know it has a leak, I just cant pinpoint where and I'm guessing its more a case of cheap toy deal with it. Secondly are the bellows ever going to loosen up or are they supposed to remain stiffer than hell? Playing for more than half an hour kills my wrists. Thanks for the thread, it's been a great read.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2013 18:06
|
|
|
Visteri posted:Well, uh...My dad got me an Appalachian dulcimer for my birthday. It can be stressful trying something new, but hopefully you've managed to chill and enjoy a bit by now. The Apple Creek models aren't amazing, but I've played a number that weren't bad at all. I wouldn't call them inferior to the cardboard dulcimers, from the ones I've tried, and in any case are more durable, better-looking, and better resale value given that if you get serious about dulcimer you're going to upgrade down the road anyway. For noters, literally any stick-like thing that won't damage your finish is fine. Smoothed piece of wooden dowel is pretty popular of a choice. If you google up "making dulcimer noter" there are lots of easy suggestions, no real need to buy anything commercial. If you haven't tried it out much yet, just tune it up (if you have a smartphone, there are tons of good and easy tuner apps), and just spend some time strumming it, getting a feel for it. It's pretty hard to go wrong on a dulcimer. Enjoy it, let us know how it goes and when you have any questions. quote:Speaking of duclimers, I've been thinking of making a plucked psaltery recently, does anyone have any ideas or recommendations for me regarding size, shape or number of strings? Of the various ghits for "plucked psaltery plans", I'm not sure what recommends one seller over the other, but there are a few discussions about plans on a few music forums, so mainly just a Google exercise. So far as shape, the straight trapezoidal ones are the easiest, though if you have a little more skill the hognosed style is pretty distinctive:  Are you specifically interested in playing Medieval music, or just picked the psaltery because it seems easy to build? Just one man's opinion, but there are a few other cool zither-family instruments that are easy to build, but a little more exotic if you want something unusual. Jadisan posted:How hard would it be to try and seal off the bellows myself? I know it has a leak, I just cant pinpoint where and I'm guessing its more a case of cheap toy deal with it. 1) An easy way to find a leak is to get your hand wet, so you can trace your hand above the various possible leak areas and feel for a cold rush of air as you move the bellows. 2) They're just kind of stiff by nature since they're made with cheap stuff and not leather. They get somewhat better, but not great. quote:I moved halfway acrossed the world in january and have been toying with learning the concertina ever since. Are you enjoying the back-forth feeling and easy harmonising of the toy accordion? If so, Anglo concertina would be the way to go. If you like free reeds but don't dig the bouncy playing, then either English concertina (if you want rapid melody) or Duet concertina (if you want to be able to play a melody backed up by a harmony or chords). I've yet to see any better way to start than the Concertina Connection instruments (around US$400 here). Used free reeds are always a gamble unless you're specifically buying from a musician who can accurately describe its condition to you. Speaking of buying accordions, if any toy accordion players are looking for an upgrade, I have a worn-but-functional Hohner 1-row accordion up on SA Mart: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3570427 
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2013 02:28
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:
Mainly because it seems easy to build to be honest, but weirder is always better as far as I'm concerned so I'd be interested in hearing any suggestions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2013 00:42
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:It can be stressful trying something new, but hopefully you've managed to chill and enjoy a bit by now. The Apple Creek models aren't amazing, but I've played a number that weren't bad at all. I wouldn't call them inferior to the cardboard dulcimers, from the ones I've tried, and in any case are more durable, better-looking, and better resale value given that if you get serious about dulcimer you're going to upgrade down the road anyway. Replacing them was a real pain, though I imagine it will get easier with practice. New strings are drat stiff. I've decided to avoid trimming this set because I'm afraid I did it wrong and they'll come flying off the pegs if I do. It sounded nice when I played it, though, so I'm feeling less intimidated by the whole thing. Still working on my noter technique to make it sound consistent. I keep thinking it would be nice to have a teacher who could tell me if I'm doing anything wrong, but I can't afford one at this point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2013 01:30
|
|
|
White Dog Eggs posted:Mainly because it seems easy to build to be honest, but weirder is always better as far as I'm concerned so I'd be interested in hearing any suggestions. For something that's easy to build, but weird, I'd suggest either of the two North Asian long-lyres: the Ainu tonkori of northern Japan (covered a few pages back in this thread) or the nares-jux or sangkvyltap of the Khanty-Mansi Siberian tribesman. I have a hard time finding decent photos of it (though you can see it decently in some videos) but here's a sketch from the wiki article:  EDIT: caught a screencap showing one decently:  Imagine this about 3-4 feet long, laid across the lap. Only between 5-7 strings, no frets or other way of modding the note. Just pluck the strings or mute them, but you can hear on the recordings how intricate of music make from so simple a thing: - This clip has the best playing, but very little footage of players: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3u9xdXO-28 - Basic clip that shows some players: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLC-yOjU9SE - Good visuals of players, but it's one of those silly Soviet "folk orchestra" settups where a dozen people sit together and play an instrument people would never normally play in an ensemble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrTijdOJm44 There's kind of a hybrid naresyuk-tonkori that Ian Summers built and has a clip or two of on YouTube. It gives some visuals of the construction, and is easy to the point you can basically build it just by looking at it. You can make it even easier if you do away with a few of the curves and simplify the lines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNfqa8Z85Gk  That's my best suggestion. If you're less Siberian shaman-inclined and more interested in the people who are to the Japanese what the Sioux are to White Americans, the tonkori of the nigh-extinct Ainu people of Hokkaido is pretty much the same. I don't know that there's a specific organological linkage, but seriously, these things are much of a muchness:  - Here's some less-strummy and more lyrical tonkori playing by Sanpe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEx1H73jwSI So yeah, either of these would be really easy to build. I've had this vague mental plan of building one or the other by just taking a 2x4 or 2x6 length of pine or cedar board and drilling/jigsawing the middle parts out to create the walls, and just lay soundboard and back atop those to avoid having to even make and join sides. Don't know why it wouldn't work at all. With either of these the only slightly hard thing at all would be getting the tuning pegs right, and even that just depends on how set you are on having traditional tapered wooden pegs. And even those, I've had makers on the Lyres YahooGroup say that for pine or cedar, given a decently hard wood for the pegs, you wouldn't even need to taper the holes you drill, just plane some taper to the pegs and force-fit them into the soften wood to get the right fit. If you get keen to build one of these, give me a shout and I can put you in touch with some guys. To the best of my awareness, nobody has built either of these in the US before.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 04:13
|
|
|
Woah, I was expecting a wiki link and you've given me an essay! After reading all that I'm now pretty much set on building something similar to that hybrid naresyuk-tonkori, although I'll probably use guitar tuners instead of tuning-pegs as I've got boxes of the things and I've never had anything but grief with tuning-pegs.TapTheForwardAssist posted:So yeah, either of these would be really easy to build. I've had this vague mental plan of building one or the other by just taking a 2x4 or 2x6 length of pine or cedar board and drilling/jigsawing the middle parts out to create the walls, and just lay soundboard and back atop those to avoid having to even make and join sides. Don't know why it wouldn't work at all. With either of these the only slightly hard thing at all would be getting the tuning pegs right, and even that just depends on how set you are on having traditional tapered wooden pegs. And even those, I've had makers on the Lyres YahooGroup say that for pine or cedar, given a decently hard wood for the pegs, you wouldn't even need to taper the holes you drill, just plane some taper to the pegs and force-fit them into the soften wood to get the right fit. What you suggested would work just fine (it's actually how Danelectro build their electric guitars, cut-out plywood fame with hardboard/masonsite back and front), infact I'm kind of torn between doing that or doing it in more of a medieval style where the sound cavity is carved out, leaving about 3-2mm of wood at the back and then gluing a soundboard on the front (although the instrument in that youtube video appears to have the soundboard nailed on, which is something I've not seen before). I don't have PM's sadly, but if you could put me in touch with anyone that would be awesome, if you could email me at [email="removed"][/email] that would be awesome, thanks! Barnaby Rudge fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Sep 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2013 14:09
|
|
|
White Dog Eggs posted:Woah, I was expecting a wiki link and you've given me an essay! After reading all that I'm now pretty much set on building something similar to that hybrid naresyuk-tonkori Sounds solid. Info on them in English is a little sparse, but here's a gTranslate of one Russian site: quote:Sankvyltap - string doschechnaya zither with a resonator box. Hollowed out from the trunk of a cedar, spruce or aspen, with one end pointed, the other - split in two. The speakers are connected to the ends of the bar. Top box is covered with a thin wooden plate - deck. Simultaneously deck via one or two stands tensioned string (usually 5, rarely 3, 7) which on the one hand attached to the narrow end sankvyltapa the other - are attached to the crossbar by means of wooden sticks or avian bones. The strings are made from deer intestines or tendons. Inside the housing is often placed shot, which gives an extra sound effect. In the products of modern masters split casing missing pegs are attached directly to the body, can be used metal strings. Form sankvyltapa, according to many anthropologists, like a boat. With the game sankvyltap lay flat on his knees, turning it on its side, hands musician press lightly against the edge of the tool. Play on it with two hands: one zaschipyvayut strings, the other - mute, sometimes run melodies involved both hands. Traditional tunes on sankvyltape have a wide range of applications. The main function of them in the context of the ritual - the invocation and presentation of spirits (gods) with a special name ring tones. In addition, this tool performed melodies that accompany the dances and humorous presentation of the bear festival, involving people. Probably for this reason sankvyl-tap is widely used in shamanic practice as the equivalent of a diamond. I'd been having trouble finding decent pics and clips of the instrument, but in retrospect I should know better since I'm always prodding my research crew to check alternate spellings, search under the Arabic spelling, etc. When you google up the Cyrillic spellings there are a decent scattering of bits on it. Try searching the spellings: нарс-юх, санквылтап. There is a bit of variety of types, with some being a solid board, and others having a notch-shaped cutout.   quote:although I'll probably use guitar tuners instead of tuning-pegs as I've got boxes of the things and I've never had anything but grief with tuning-pegs. I'm having trouble finding a good clear pic of it, but there are a few images of naresyuk with modern guitar tuners. Like this if you squint:   quote:What you suggested would work just fine (it's actually how Danelectro build their electric guitars, cut-out plywood fame with hardboard/masonsite back and front), infact I'm kind of torn between doing that or doing it in more of a medieval style where the sound cavity is carved out, leaving about 3-2mm of wood at the back and then gluing a soundboard on the front (although the instrument in that youtube video appears to have the soundboard nailed on, which is something I've not seen before). There are a number of types of lyre that have nailed-on soundboards, some crwths and talharpa and whatnot, so it's less-common these days but historically was a thing. Don't forget, on both the tonkori and the naresyuk, it's customary to drop a pebble inside the body to give it a "soul". If it were me, I'd use the easiest technique possible, but if you enjoy carving things you could give a stab at the hollowing-out method (I think the term "hogging" is used). I've seen some other folks online who use a power-drill to drill a bunch of holes to the right depth all over, forming a honeycomb, and then use one of those spinning-cutting tools to cut out the web between all the holes. I replied to your email, and I'll go track down a few guys for you to communicate with to get some ideas going.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 13:01
|
|
|
Thanks for all the extra info! I quite like the look of the split headstock, would be a bit tricky with guitar tuners though.TapTheForwardAssist posted:If it were me, I'd use the easiest technique possible, but if you enjoy carving things you could give a stab at the hollowing-out method (I think the term "hogging" is used). I've seen some other folks online who use a power-drill to drill a bunch of holes to the right depth all over, forming a honeycomb, and then use one of those spinning-cutting tools to cut out the web between all the holes. I built my guitarra latina and cwrth this way, I've got a decent press-drill in my Barnaby Rudge fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Sep 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2013 16:12
|
|
|
Because of this thread, and after some friends bought saxophones on a whim, I now have an inexplicable desire to own a horn of some kind - preferably a cheaper one, so I'm thinking hunting horn. I've never played a wind instrument so I assume playing will be difficult. How would one go about maintaining such an instrument and do I need specific equipment?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2013 11:34
|
|
|
I've been playing with the idea of getting an accordion for a couple of years now and I've decided I finally want to do it. I used to play trombone and baritone back in middle and high school and quit when I got to college. I did pick up guitar along the way and have gotten somewhat decent at it, but I hate not being able to play the bass and melody at the same time. I basically just want to be a one man band. I've skimmed through the thread and I think I will probably want a Cajun accordion. I also love when modern music is fused with more classical styles, so I would probably just play covers of semi-popular songs to learn until I delve into more complex material. Is this enough background info for you fine goons to help me figure out what would be the best fit for me? Current plan is to find a toy accordion at a shop before investing in something more pricey, but I'm not sure as to how exactly I would go about testing if they are in tune or not. I have a decent ear for sound since I do have a musical background, but I'm not really confident in my abilities to accurately judge.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
I found I have a PVC Kaval lying around my house. Anyone have any resources for learning to play it? I can almost get a tone out of it, though it's very much soft and breathy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 21:38
|
|
|
Paper Clip Death posted:Because of this thread, and after some friends bought saxophones on a whim, I now have an inexplicable desire to own a horn of some kind - preferably a cheaper one, so I'm thinking hunting horn. I've never played a wind instrument so I assume playing will be difficult. How would one go about maintaining such an instrument and do I need specific equipment? Hmmm, that would depend on a few things: -- When you say “horn”, are you meaning in the general sense like a saxophone is a “horn”, just any instrument you blow into? Or are you specifically meaning something played trumpet-like by buzzing the lips instead of having a reed or whistle mouthpiece? -- What’s your overall goal with this particular purchase? Just to make some interesting musical effect, or do you want to play actual melodies? Do you have a certain setting in mind, like jamming with friends, or just kicking back on the porch and making some cool sound for a few minutes on a slow afternoon? Do you have a specific genre of music you want to play, or again just going for a cool sound you can enjoy making? If you can narrow that down that would help immensely. So far as your “hunting horn” comment, that’s one of those “so wrong, yet so right” ideas. A hunting horn, like a bugle, or like a long medieval-like fanfare horn, is of the class they call a ”natural horn”. Natural here not meaning the materials, but that it has no valves, no slides, no devices to change the pitch other than by changing the airstream to reach certain set notes based on the physics of the actual tube. As a very good example, check out this clip of an Australian playing the “Last Post” funeral call. Note how his hand doesn’t move at all, all he’s doing to change the notes is changing his breath pressure, and when he does that the note jumps specific steps within its harmonic sequence. So a limited number of notes, but some great simplicity to it.  If some kind of natural horn is indeed what you want, there are a few ways to go about it. --Bugles: there are some used/beater bugles you can buy off eBay that are decent, but there are a bunch of lovely ones too, so do some basic research. I believe we have a bugle megapost earlier in the thread. The good thing, if you’re just looking for something interesting to do, is there’s an entire corpus of bugle calls across dozens of different nations, so you could really build a hobby out of nothing but just learning the specific patterns of your half-dozen notes. Plus in all seriousness you could end up being much in demand for playing funerals. -- Hunting horns: I’m pretty sure you’re not likely to find an actual working and decent brass foxhunting horn without some careful research. There are a bunch on eBay, but a lot of them are cheap Chinese stuff, and/or are made as wall-hangers, so I wouldn’t buy one of those without a specific informed reason to believe it’s a good one. That said, if you want something similar but incredibly affordable and easy to acquire, there’s a weird but fun option: Hosaphone Long story short, there’s a whole website about making a natural horn out of a length of tubing and a funnel; you can make it a bit smoother/easier by buying a used brass instrument mouthpiece for $10-20 online, bringing your total costs to $25 or so to make one of these.  The website is http://hosaphone.com , and I emphasise this is an actual recognised long-running experimental instrument. Like a lot of natural horns its uses are somewhat limited, but not any more than a bugle is. Basic example of a bugle call on a hosaphone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e6REd10yW0 Here’s someone really amazing with nuanced technique playing a hosaphone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU6EzfNt7fM There are a few good clips on YouTube of people using the South African vuvuzela plastic trumpet (made famous by the World Cup) for actual music, but I think that takes a bit more skill with brass instruments. Another natural horn to consider is the shofar, the traditional Jewish horn trumpet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQrBURDtQE  All this is assuming you are referring to natural horns. If not, are you just looking at brass instruments in general? If so, one interesting (and very cute) option that maybe isn’t applicable to you but the thread in general might find interesting. The company that makes the PBone plastic and carbon-fibre trumpet, now makes a mini/alto trombone version for $120. I’ve always thought these were a cool design, and having a mini just delights me.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7GucPK7RHY And this is all assuming you’re using the term “horn” specifically rather than broadly. But it gave me a chance to talk about trumpets, which we haven’t done for a while, so all good. Post up, give us some specifics on what you’re looking for.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 12:51
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:-- When you say “horn”, are you meaning in the general sense like a saxophone is a “horn”, just any instrument you blow into? Or are you specifically meaning something played trumpet-like by buzzing the lips instead of having a reed or whistle mouthpiece? As for playing one, I don't foresee any kind of serious band action in the near future (unless the hosaphone takes off among my friends), but it'd still be really cool to be able to play a tune or two, even if it's just something like German hunting signals (I mean, why not have an extensive knowledge of this subject?). I have actually ordered a hunting horn from Thomann and I think it will be at least playable, if not superb in quality. As for taking care of the instrument, I assume I have to clean the inside of spittle and bits of lung somehow - how would I go about this so as to not damage anything? Oh, and is there any way to make the sound quieter while practicing? Any and all information is greatly appreciated. TapTheForwardAssist posted:Hosaphone You might find this video amusing as well (actual playing starts at 2:53 but stick with it - the guy makes a clarinet out of a fire extinguisher hose): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJhnC9Xf_Aw
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 16:02
|
|
|
virtual256 posted:I found I have a PVC Kaval lying around my house. Anyone have any resources for learning to play it? I can almost get a tone out of it, though it's very much soft and breathy. I'll cover the accordion question in the next day or so since I'm on my phone now, but exactly how does one just randomly run across a kaval in the house? Checked under the sofa cushions?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 18:55
|
|
|
Paper Clip Death posted:As for playing one, I don't foresee any kind of serious band action in the near future (unless the hosaphone takes off among my friends), but it'd still be really cool to be able to play a tune or two, even if it's just something like German hunting signals (I mean, why not have an extensive knowledge of this subject?). Did you get the "Fürst Pless Horn" or the "Pocket Hunting Horn" (which I think is basically a small Pless)? I don't know a lot about horns, but a brief glance around seems to say some very promising things about this style of horn:  http://wildjaeger.com/?p=138 posted:Small hunting horn (Plesshorn): is smaller in size, held with only one hand but probably the most recognized as a hunting horn. It has a vast range of notes that can be played once again dependent upon the player’s abilities. Something pretty much like this is called the "post horn" in English, though I think that term ends up being a little broader in terms of variants but narrower in terms of usage (signalling coaches, mail arrivals, etc, rather than hunting): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_horn The de.wiki seems to have a pretty solid writeupt on the "Fürst-Pless-Horn": https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrst-Pless-Horn quote:As for taking care of the instrument, I assume I have to clean the inside of spittle and bits of lung somehow - how would I go about this so as to not damage anything? Oh, and is there any way to make the sound quieter while practicing? Any and all information is greatly appreciated. I am not at all a brass guy, but failing any specific instructions coming from the manufacturer, I'd say you should be good to use any cleaning products used on a trumpet, except that you don't need any of the lubricant or whatnot used on the valves since you have no valves. And I'd avoid getting solvent or water on the leather wrap. I'm not totally sure how you go around cleaning out the insides of the curves, but any decent brass enthusiast would probably have some good suggestions for you. I'm really not a brass guy, but in your shoes I'd at least consider joining a major trumpet forum and asking folks for overall advice about your instrument in one of the little sub-forums. There's Trumpet Herald and Trumpetmaster forums, which look almost identical in settup so I'd imagine there's some kind of divisive split of the community there. A more brass-focused person could probably get you some good advice on cleaning, and on any particular nuances of learning horn that would at all differ from the standard trumpet skills of lip-buzzing and the like. Ideally, if you know any experienced brass players in your area, not just a casual guy but an actual serious "owns a bunch of brass instruments and plays them regularly" person, it might be worth checking in with them to have them scope out your Thomann. In particular, I'd be curious as to whether a serious brass player would find the stock mouthpiece perfectly fine, or would have some clever "dude, what you need is a #4 cornet mouthpiece and this would be way smoother" kind of input. So far as making it quieter, the item used for this is called a "mute". I don't know that your horn can use any of the existing trumpet-type mutes (though maybe it is the right size and taper, you'd have to check around on that). If they don't fit, or you want cheaper, if you google up "DIY trumpet mute" and similar terms there are a bunch of interesting ways to do it. Here's one using an air-freshener and pantyhose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydmfLlRMQhQ. So yeah, many ways to go about it, there are a wide variety of discussions online about it. I'd be curious which option ends up working well for yours. So are you more focused on hunting-type horn calls than military? Have you seen the Youtube user Jagdhornfuchs and his series of clips on jager horn calls? EDIT: Though the Plesser is probably a good place to start, down the road if you actually get really into it you might want to give one of these a while: Ventil-Jagdhorn.  I literally thought these were photoshops at first, but apparently it's a thing. I have no idea quite what the intent of these are, but if you do speak German and run across any mention of it, I'm curious now. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Oct 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 04:38
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:I'll cover the accordion question in the next day or so since I'm on my phone now, but exactly how does one just randomly run across a kaval in the house? Checked under the sofa cushions? As with all good households, we have a basket of random "toy" instruments, including Humanatones (nose flutes) and such, along with recorders and the musical saw and so forth. It was in said basket, and I only recently figured out what it was.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2013 12:30
|
|
|
enthe0s posted:I've been playing with the idea of getting an accordion for a couple of years now and I've decided I finally want to do it. I used to play trombone and baritone back in middle and high school and quit when I got to college. I did pick up guitar along the way and have gotten somewhat decent at it, but I hate not being able to play the bass and melody at the same time. I basically just want to be a one man band. I've skimmed through the thread and I think I will probably want a Cajun accordion. I also love when modern music is fused with more classical styles, so I would probably just play covers of semi-popular songs to learn until I delve into more complex material. Is this enough background info for you fine goons to help me figure out what would be the best fit for me? If you want to play chords/bass on one hand and melody on the other, that is indeed what accordion excels at. The main immediate task would be figuring out which particular layout of accordion appeals to you. - If you like the back-forth quality of diatonic button accordions, with their in-out note changes that lend themselves to automatically harmonising, then the only real issue will be figuring out what size (1, 2, 3 rows?) and key of instrument you want. If you're reasonably agnostic/flexible about key, easiest would be to just buy whatever is reasonably common but not terribly in demand in your area. In the US, C/F accordions aren't particularly in style, nor are the Club layout (2.5 row), so those can be had quite affordably. Nothing at all wrong with the sound or layout, just that they aren't the specific variants used in popular genres like Irish trad in the US.  - If you try the back-forth and find you don't care for it, the main things to look at would be piano accordion, Chromatic Button accordion (a little rare in the US), or duet concertina. The last doesn't exactly have chords on the left hand, but does have all your low notes on the left, and it's easy to form chords with them while playing your melody on your right. CBAs are kinda cool, and have a zillion left-hand chords, but they are pricier and way heavier than the small diatonic boxes:  So far as Cajun accordion: those are really fun to play, the only partial downside is they only have limited chords on the left hand. So they can play their way through basic "three chord songs" pretty well (and very intuitively), but they don't do fancy jazzy things, key changes mid-song, etc. But if it's an option that appeals to you, it can't hurt to get your hands on one and try. EDIT: neat article on music theory for Cajun accordion, if you happen to recall your music training: http://www.bignick.net/BoxLessons/Music_Theory.pdf . If you don't, no worries, generations of illiterate people have played these just fine. I'll reiterate what I've said about accordions/concertinas earlier in the thread: there are a ton of old accordions out there, and used accordions can vary greatly in condition depending on how they were kept. If you buy blind off eBay, it's a real crapshoot and you could get a "great deal" on a $75 accordion that turns out to need hundreds in reedwork. So shop carefully, and you're best off either buying local with something you can lay hands on (and ideally bring a musician friend along with) and carefully check out everything about it. There are probably some checklists online, like there are for buying motorcycles, of all the things to check. Alternately, if you buy online make sure you do so from someone, business or individual, who clearly knows accordions well and can explicitly vouch for condition. "Nice closet find! Sounds really good to me but I'm not a musician but it's really lovely" means absolutely nothing. A seller, forum or eBay, who explains something like "I was using this Hohner 2-row G/C for a Breton band in NYC I play in, but I upgraded to a $3,000 Le Pompidou model so am selling this one. It was last tuned 2 years ago at Smith's Accordions in Philly, and is about 98% on, just some slight warble on the high G and the lowest D, plus the Am chord is a little balky when first warming it up..." You get the rough idea. quote:Current plan is to find a toy accordion at a shop before investing in something more pricey, but I'm not sure as to how exactly I would go about testing if they are in tune or not. I have a decent ear for sound since I do have a musical background, but I'm not really confident in my abilities to accurately judge. If a 1-row accordion is something you want to try, I just sold off one of my beater Hohner Cajun accordions, but I have one in actually pretty solid shape that I'm not using much these days. If you're in the US or Canada, shoot me an email at my username at Yahoo and I can cut you a really good deal on one, like $99 plus shipping. If you're in the UK or other bits of Europe, the Melodeon Forum can probably rustle you up a decent 1-row for £95 or less. I can shoot you a quick video of my extra (HA-114 4-stop in G), which is about 90%+ on key, perfectly good for learning on.  gImages example, mine is more beater than this If you decide to just try out a toy accordion first though, it's pretty easy to tell by ear how in-tune it is. If you hold all the buttons down, or play any combination of buttons, they should basically harmonise, like when you breathe in and out through a harmonica. So just try (in both directions) the right-hand buttons, then the bass-chord on the left and see what jumps out at you. And as mentioned earlier in the thread, often you can tape off half of the reeds (they're in doubled pairs) to cut out the least-tuned ones, and also make the toy accordion run on less air.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2013 14:00
|
|
|
I will probably take you up on that offer for your accordion. I went out and bought a toy one to try out, and while it's not bad, I'm getting frustrated at the limitations it has. I went with your suggestions from previous posts and opened it up and taped half the reeds as well, which did make it sound better, but my main strife arises from just not having enough air to play out a string of notes. I am making do by basically doing small mini pulls (or pushes) whenever I change notes, which helps a lot but seems unnecessary. I'm going to make a post later tonight with pictures of the insides as well, but I have to run for now. edit: Moved to new post since content is different enough. enthe0s fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Oct 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2013 23:55
|
|
|
So here's the insides of my toy accordion after I put in the modifications suggested. http://imgur.com/a/DZ6qz 1st image is the buttons on the right side. I taped them because sometimes the top button would get stuck when I was playing. The tape prevents it from sliding so it can't get caught. They are a little stiff but I've gotten used to it so it's not a big deal for me anymore. 2nd image is the untaped side of the actual inside, and the 3rd is the taped side. I wasn't exactly sure how to go about it so I just tried to cover the entire reed. I need to go back and check which reed is better in tune but it sounds fine for the most part and I got lazy, so I'll do it eventually. It helped tremendously with the amount of air I get out of it now but it's still a problem for me. I sent you an email about your accordion as well TapTheForwardAssist.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 15:56
|
|
|
enthe0s posted:So here's the insides of my toy accordion after I put in the modifications suggested. Huh. It looks like you and I came up with completely different (but perhaps equally valid) solutions to the same problem. If you unscrew the little flipper-shaped holders on either side of the reed mount, the whole black plastic box comes out. It's basically a huge tremolo harmonica without the outer plates. There are two rows of seven square holes. Each hole allows air to pass through one pair of reeds, with each reed in the pair facing the opposite direction so that one reed sounds on the push and the other reed sounds on the pull. There's also a piece of felt or foam rubber with round holes that line up with the square holes and the button air channels. Instead of putting tape on the reeds themselves, I ran a single long piece of tape across one row of square holes. That way, the air doesn't even get into the chambers of the reeds that I want silenced, and the mounting bracket helps to hold the tape in place. I'll post pictures once I resolve some technical difficulties.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2013 07:03
|
|
|
So I completely forgot about this thread and have been flicking through it recently as it's exactly what I need. Coming into summer, intensive job contract expiring.. Question: My room mate wants to learn Violin with me, but I am intimidated by the steep learning and my lack of Music Theory. While I do like the Violin and am willing to learn, I can't see myself having the time or money to pay for a teacher so it seems a bit defunct. I am really interested by those electric 'silent' violins, and was wondering what other instruments I could learn that are similar i.e can plug in headphones and practice to myself. Doesn't have to be strings, I have no preference as I will be learning a proper instrument for the first time as is. I get terribly self conscious and am in a large share house so the headphone bit is pretty important! Thanks in advance goons, I'll try and help anyone out with Harmonica stuff.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2013 18:49
|
|
|
Brinner posted:My room mate wants to learn Violin with me, but I am intimidated by the steep learning and my lack of Music Theory. While I do like the Violin and am willing to learn, I can't see myself having the time or money to pay for a teacher so it seems a bit defunct. I did a little digging on the "silent violin" issue: * Silent violins are pretty quiet, but not literally "silent" since the physical strings are still vibrating. The alternate option is to make an acoustic violin quieter using a "mute", a small rubber or metal bit that temporarily clips onto the bridge and limits its vibration. Even the very heavy mutes are pretty affordable, like $15 or so. From what I can tell glancing around, people say that an acoustic violin with a really heavy metal mute is close to as quiet as a "silent". I've been trying to figure out if a silent can be even silent-er with a mute, but not finding a lot of mention of that so maybe it's just redundant. Silent violins can be pretty affordable, but there are also a ton of junk Chinese ones on the market, so make sure you read up on current reviews and buy a model specifically recognised as an affordable beginner piece.  Violin/fiddle can be a great instrument, but if you're middling on that choice, or just agreeing with your friend, you might want to consider all your options first. Violin does have somewhat a steep initial curve. If you want to learn classical violin, that's where you probably don't want to go too far without getting some kind of formal instruction, since there are very "set" ways of playing. Things are a bit more flexible among the various fiddle traditions, so for those you mostly want to listen to a ton of recordings to get a feel for playing styles. If you're excited and enthused about fiddle, sure, I wouldn't let the curve stop you. But if you're not really full of passion to learn fiddle specifically, you may want to start on something easier. * So far as things that are quiet to play around the house: there are all kinds of electronic instruments that are dead quiet with earphones, and there are electric versions of acoustic instruments that are awfully quiet. So far as totally acoustic things that you could play in a bedroom with the door closed and not be heard, that'd mostly be small plucked strings like kantele or lyre (video clip), ideally with nylon strings. Really, a lot of it depends on what your musical goal is: are you mostly looking to play for self-enjoyment alone, or are you wanting to get some basic skills up so you can jam with friends, or make recordings for YouTube? What kind of genres would you like to play? Are you looking to be really inexpensive at first, or do you have a few hundred or even more bookmarked for an instrument? Just to toss a few options out at you: * Any of the number of the various MIDI and general electronic instruments. A few examples would be alternate keyboards like the Axis-49 (video clip) that are designed to be more intuitive than learning piano, or one neat item if you're attracted to woodwind instruments but want quietness and also electronic capabilities: a "wind controller" (discussed earlier in the thread). Some of these options are in the US$250-300 range, but note a lot of them are MIDI, so have to be run through a computer to get sound. Not necessarily a huge deal, just that it's you and a laptop and an instrument rather than just you and an instrument.  The Akai EWI seems to get some good press, and is low as US$250; the Yamaha WX5 is US$500. These are basically tubes you blow thru and the sensors inside measure your breath pressure, and what keys you're pressing, and communicate that to a computer in MIDI, and by mucking around with the settings you can give it whatever sound you like. Here's a guy with an Akai doing a Japanese shakuhachi solo, electronically: clip If wind controllers appeal to you, there's a whole Wind Controller FAQ with good details. Or maybe you like electronic stuff but aren't drawn to the artificial wind instrument idea, in which case there are a number of keyboard-like instruments, or ones that involve mucking around with apps on a smart tablet or other general electronic device. * If being really quiet is a huge deal for you, the solid-body electric versions of many string instruments are pretty quiet, especially the nylon-strung ones. I was just playing a electric baritone ukulele, and it was awfully quiet unplugged. And some of the steel-string solid-bodies can be pretty quiet too; this one is just a guy dicking around, but gives a rough idea for how quiet a lap-steel guitar is without any amp: clip. One thing that probably would be a bit niche unless you're just enchanted by Arabic music is an electric solid-body oud (video clip) but I throw it out there just because it's cool.  So just throwing out a few ideas to get you started thinking. If you can clarify a bit on your musical goals, styles you'd like to play, etc. we can narrow it down some. And if silent violin is still your top choice, we can glance around and see what's the recommended affordable student piece these days. You mentioned going into summer around now, so where in the Southern Hemisphere are you at? TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Oct 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2013 06:01
|
|
|
Eek! You are my favorite goon, thank you. I'm living in Tasmania, Australia currently. I'm just looking to find something to better myself, although I do have access to a professional studio so something I could jam to or play with friends would be nice. My Audio engineer friend is messing with a MIDI keyboard currently, I know he would really dig the Wind Controller. Price isn't too much of an issue, although obviously would prefer not to spend hundreds on what could be a short term project. Before I go any further, can I just say that electric Oud is god drat amazing, and I want one. I was just talking with a friend today about Arabic music, I really enjoy it. I even look like I am of Middle eastern descent (kind of), maybe it was meant to be! Time to get some research done.. I think you're right about the Violin. While I am interested in the fiddle, I'm certainly not passionate enough to really spend the time. Knowing me I will get frustrated with lack of progress and learn bad habits and just give up. half of the reason I am doing this is to fix that attitude, but I think baby steps are in order.. I don't know why I have always been afraid of strings, I think being around muso's for a lot of my teenage and adult life has intimidated me. I have a lot of guitar player friends who are really making it in the scene and were always flaunting it pretty heavily. Something unique like the Oud could be awesome, and my hippy friends would enjoy it too. I'll look into elec woodwinds also, I am an IT nerd so could fit in well with everything, although I am trying to get out of that now work is over. Steel lap guitar also looks good. I seem to be leaning to all the stuff I can play casually with friends. For reference, my music tastes range from Ryan Adams and Wilco type stuff, all the way to Explosions in the sky (post rock), Stateless (??), Opeth (Prog Metal). Thanks again, I really appreciate the  postsedit: back after a few hours research. Welp, Wind controllers aren't cheap in Oz, and I can't seem to find any under the $500 mark. Oud's are even crazier, been on Mike's Oud forum and a million random arabic websites with no info. The only site with anything of use is arabinstruments.com, but no idea on the quality of those things and price is still around $600 before shipping (Sukar Oud). I did just impulse buy a tin whistle, however. I will keep reading and sifting through the thread. edit2: aaaaand now I really want a steel tongue drum too. Seriously, 370 bucks for a HAPI drum? I swear I could make one out of an old gas canister.. ALL THE THINGS queef anxiety fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2013 15:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 08:18 |
|
|
It's not weird but I just got a secondhand Buffet Crampon clarinet for $75. I played 5th through 8th grade, then switched to bassoon but kept playing the clarinet in marching band for an additional 2 years. Kind of like riding a bike, you don't really forget how to do it... although I'm tending to get saliva fizzing on the left side of my mouthpiece, might need some work on embouchure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2013 23:36
|
|
