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I agree with Super. My first dog came from a breeder that kept the pups in an outside kennel from about 5 weeks until people took them home. Second pup came from a breeder where the pups grew up inside, were handled daily from day one and were given every opportunity to develop their senses, motor skills and social skills from the start (including Bio Sensor type stuff). The third one came from a sheep farm from a litter of 8 where the pups had daily interaction with people but in a relatively straightforward manner and lived outside as much as possible because cleaning after 8 puppies is a loving chore. My first dog has poor doggie social skills because I didn't have enough sense to socialize him better to other dogs when he was little. The middle dog grew up to be a sound sensitive, neurotic little thing (very VERY sweet though) and the third one probably has the best temperament of my three. As long as the puppies have daily, pleasant contact with people and are well looked after, I don't see how it could make much of a difference as long as we're talking about little puppies.
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Oct 12, 2013 20:37
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internet inc posted:What is the consensus on puppies who have lived their first 8 weeks outside, in a kennel? I think the issue is more, as other posters have mentioned, if the puppies haven't had regular interaction with humans. You may also find that they haven't been socialised to stuff that goes on in the house like slippery floors, vacuum cleaners etc., and may not have started housebreaking. It's kind of an individual thing that depends on what the breeder is doing. I wouldn't get a puppy any older than 8 weeks that was spending its whole time outside.
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Oct 13, 2013 06:33
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6-Ethyl Bearcat posted:I think the issue is more, as other posters have mentioned, if the puppies haven't had regular interaction with humans. You may also find that they haven't been socialised to stuff that goes on in the house like slippery floors, vacuum cleaners etc., and may not have started housebreaking.
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Oct 13, 2013 07:50
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Am I doing Penny a disservice by free-feeding her? I'll give her a bowl of kibble in the morning and she'll either wolf it all down or leave it, but I just leave the bowl out so she can finish it later if she doesn't. I can't help but feel that maybe I'm setting up a bad habit of some sort, but at the same time if she's just not hungry at that particular time in the morning then I feel kind of bad for forcing her to wolf it all down or making her wait until the afternoon feeding. Advice please!
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Oct 14, 2013 18:52
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I never, ever, ever, ever recommend free feeding. I want food to be something of value, and I want to have the ability to provide it/deny it based on the dog's behaviour. Scheduled mealtimes are by far preferable.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:03
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I want to say that the only real reason free-feeding is bad is that it strips away some of the optics you'll have on her eating habits. If she gets sick or stops eating, you'll notice it less/take longer to identify it with free-feeding.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:04
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That's what I was worried about. I'll try to just move to scheduled meals. I don't think it'll affect her negatively or anything since she really only goes to sniff at the bowl during the day and maybe take a bite or two of kibble.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:05
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Speaking of feeding, what are the threads thoughts on feeding in a bowl v. a toy like a ball or a Kong wobbler. I've tried to feed Khaleesi with a wobbler or a tricky treat ball. She starts with it, but eventually gets bored and stops with most of her food still left in there. If I empty it in a bowl, she will finish it. Does it matter bowl v. toy? Also, thanks MrFurious for the house breaking guide. It was a lot of work for a couple of weeks, but worked like a charm. Three weeks in and she is housebroken! No accidents in a week. Starting puppy preschool tonight. You're gonna dominate Khaleesi! These puppies grow so fast! OBLIGATORY PUPPY PIC  Edit VVVVVV I feel like an idiot, but I'm not sure how people feed out of a regular kong, they're little, and have a giant hole at the bottom. I sometimes stuff some peanut butter (my dog freaking loves it) or greek yogurt in there, but never her regular kibble. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 19:08
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Penny has absolutely no interest in food in a kong, and she's about the only dog I know who can't stand peanut butter. Her kong is mainly useful for absentminded chewing, but I stopped trying to feed her with it. Just my two cents.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:10
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I think feeding via a toy is a great option, but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. I question why your dog is only eating half a meal out of the toy but a full one in a bowl. Perhaps you're feeding too much? Also, dogs get better at removing food from puzzle toys, so she'll get more efficient about getting to the food as time goes on.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:15
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a life less posted:I think feeding via a toy is a great option, but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. She'll eat half out of the toy, and then give up, and I'll feed her the remainder in a bowl. The bag says to feed her about 3 cups a day, so that's what we try to do. She's a 19 lb mutt (Pictured above). We may be feeding her too much, because she also gets treats and some peanut butter and stuff throughout the day.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:20
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I'm glad you're talking about this since we're getting our first puppy in about a week. The guide in the OP says that all food should be given through toys to promote chewing on toys and only toys. Does this apply to puppies only? When do you start feeding from a bowl?
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Oct 14, 2013 19:21
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3 cups for 19lbs is way too much. I feed 1 cup for my 17lb poodle mutt. You need to find out the kcal of your food though. Mine is 420 calories per cup and that's about her daily calorie needs. Oh she's a puppy.... cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 19:28
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internet inc posted:I'm glad you're talking about this since we're getting our first puppy in about a week. The guide in the OP says that all food should be given through toys to promote chewing on toys and only toys. Does this apply to puppies only? When do you start feeding from a bowl? It's more for puppies but if older dogs like eating from a toy/puzzle, it's an added bonus as it'll give them a mental workout trying to get the food. For puppies, anything you can do to ingrain toy chewing behavior will help with overall bite inhibition. It'll also help focus the puppy if he is biting/nipping and you redirect to a chew toy because he'll already associate chew toy with delicious food and accept it more readily.
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Oct 14, 2013 19:43
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Sab0921 posted:Also, thanks MrFurious for the house breaking guide. It was a lot of work for a couple of weeks, but worked like a charm. Three weeks in and she is housebroken! No accidents in a week. Glad it helped. Stay vigilant though, you're not through the woods yet. You can start to relax after a month, but you're not really there until you go at least two. If you start to backslide, get back on the regimen again and don't come off until you've gone twice as long without an accident. Sab0921 posted:I feel like an idiot, but I'm not sure how people feed out of a regular kong, they're little, and have a giant hole at the bottom. I sometimes stuff some peanut butter (my dog freaking loves it) or greek yogurt in there, but never her regular kibble. Depends on the dog. If PB works, you can stuff a bunch of kibble in there and then coat the bottom with PB and freeze it. This is the "frozen kong" you'll hear referred to a lot. You can do the same thing with anything else. If you have a Kong Wobbler and it's too easy, you can put some duct tape or something on the hole to make it smaller and more difficult. internet inc posted:I'm glad you're talking about this since we're getting our first puppy in about a week. The guide in the OP says that all food should be given through toys to promote chewing on toys and only toys. Does this apply to puppies only? When do you start feeding from a bowl? Where do you see this in the OP? Is this in one of Dunbar's PDF's and I missed it? You don't have to feed out of toys, it's just a very easy way for you to exercise your dog mentally and, to a lesser extent, physically, which makes your life easier. I do think it's healthy, but there's nothing inherently wrong with feeding out of a bowl. The only danger that can arise is that if you have a breed prone to bloat (Danes, some Goldens, I think Pyrenees?) they tend to have a higher risk if they're wolfing down their food quickly. Then you see people use different contraptions to slow them down. This can be everything from a tennis ball in the bowl that they have to eat around to a bowl full of nubbed protrusions or a treat dispensing toy. I do agree with the above comments regarding free feeding though.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:05
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a life less posted:I question why your dog is only eating half a meal out of the toy but a full one in a bowl. Perhaps you're feeding too much? Also, dogs get better at removing food from puzzle toys, so she'll get more efficient about getting to the food as time goes on. Psyche doesn't finish her food in her toys, but will clean a bowl. I think it's because she eats the bowl in three seconds and doesn't register fullness, but the toy takes longer. She'll usually leave about 1/5 of her kibble in the toy. With the puppy though, 3 cups sounds like a LOT. Psyche eats 2/3 cup a day and she is 26 lbs (though she probably eats more training food than most dogs per day). Do puppies really need to eat that much? Sab0921, what kind of food are you feeding?
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Oct 14, 2013 20:42
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Shadow has never had the slightest interest in peanut butter and is really "meh" about yogurt. If I were to put something he really likes in a puzzle toy, he won't bother because he doesn't like food enough to put effort into getting it (except doing obedience/tricks, he has fun with that). Sometimes I wonder if he thinks that since the food isn't easily accessible/given straight to him, he assumes it is Not For Him and doesn't try. The one time I was able to get him to get food out of a Kong is when I loosely packed some turkey slices in one, and even then he was kinda "meh" about it. What I have found that he quite likes is when I put wet food on/in a bone and freeze it. It's great because it's directly accessible and he doesn't have to work to get it out of a toy, but it's frozen so it still takes him a while and gives him something to do. So if you have a dog who isn't big on toys/food, experiment and see if you can find something they like.
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Oct 14, 2013 21:00
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Kiri koli posted:Psyche doesn't finish her food in her toys, but will clean a bowl. I think it's because she eats the bowl in three seconds and doesn't register fullness, but the toy takes longer. She'll usually leave about 1/5 of her kibble in the toy. With the puppy though, 3 cups sounds like a LOT. Psyche eats 2/3 cup a day and she is 26 lbs (though she probably eats more training food than most dogs per day). Do puppies really need to eat that much? Sab0921, what kind of food are you feeding? She eats Nutro Ultra Puppy. 2/3 cup a day seems really low. She rarely, if ever eats the whole three cups. She eats treats and kibble throughout the day, which all probably adds up to about three cups. She is only 11-12 weeks old at this point (Rescue says 12, Vet says 11).
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Oct 14, 2013 21:39
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Sab0921 posted:She eats Nutro Ultra Puppy. 2/3 cup a day seems really low. She rarely, if ever eats the whole three cups. She eats treats and kibble throughout the day, which all probably adds up to about three cups. We feed blue buffalo, which has more calories than Nutro, so that's part of it. We used to feed more than 2/3 cups, but my dog is really lazy, so we lowered it when she started gaining some weight. I'm not suggesting anyone else should be feeding 2/3 cups, I was just surprised at 3 cups. I've never had a puppy. 
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Oct 14, 2013 21:52
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Sab0921 posted:She eats Nutro Ultra Puppy. 2/3 cup a day seems really low. She rarely, if ever eats the whole three cups. She eats treats and kibble throughout the day, which all probably adds up to about three cups. Looking back through your posts to see what this dog looks like, 3 cups is insane  . Granted, my only experience with dog feeding as an adult has been through work(at a doggy daycare), but that seems like so much for a dog that tiny, especially one that is/was low energy and kinda lethargic. I guess just adjust if she starts gaining weight?
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Oct 15, 2013 02:30
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Psychobabble! posted:Looking back through your posts to see what this dog looks like, 3 cups is insane She's not lethargic anymore, I think that was her getting used to our house. She's pretty active, but relatively chill for a puppy, and she went nuts at puppy pre school. The three cups is what the bag recommends for a 20 lb puppy, and she is very close to that, so we just give her that. She will eventually be about 50 lbs which might explain why she needs all the food right now?
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Oct 15, 2013 02:43
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Sab0921 posted:She's not lethargic anymore, I think that was her getting used to our house. She's pretty active, but relatively chill for a puppy, and she went nuts at puppy pre school. Just talk to your vet about it. The recommendation on the bag is usually pretty high, but ultimately you and your vet are the only people qualified to determine how much is appropriate.
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Oct 15, 2013 03:12
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MrFurious posted:Where do you see this in the OP? Is this in one of Dunbar's PDF's and I missed it? You don't have to feed out of toys, it's just a very easy way for you to exercise your dog mentally and, to a lesser extent, physically, which makes your life easier. I do think it's healthy, but there's nothing inherently wrong with feeding out of a bowl. The only danger that can arise is that if you have a breed prone to bloat (Danes, some Goldens, I think Pyrenees?) they tend to have a higher risk if they're wolfing down their food quickly. Then you see people use different contraptions to slow them down. This can be everything from a tennis ball in the bowl that they have to eat around to a bowl full of nubbed protrusions or a treat dispensing toy. I do agree with the above comments regarding free feeding though. It is indeed from Ian Dubar's PDF. It makes sense to feed him out of toys as a puppy, but the free feeding part complicates house training, it seems. I'm lost. 
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Oct 15, 2013 03:39
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If I were going to start with a bag's recomendations, I would start with HALF of what a bag recommends and adjust based on body condition after that. Do no feed according to "guidelines." Keep your puppies thin, just verging on SLIGHTLY underweight. Never free-feed and make food valuable as hell. Done deal.
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Oct 15, 2013 03:46
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I've probably said this before (I know others must have) but I just don't get where they come up with the "feed your dog THISMUCH" on the dog food labels. My vet said half a cup to two-thirds (!), but the bag says for a dog of Mr. Bobo's size it should be THREE CUPS of the stuff (like Sab's stuff recommends). (Mr Bobo is a 9-year-old sheltie/golden mix.) Right now, I'm trying something new (to me): Merrick Grain-free "Wingaling" -- and Bobo goes apeshit for it. But the can says, on the back: Target weight 50, 1140 cals/day, 3 1/3 cans. What the HELL? I've been feeding him ONE can (as I did when I was feeding him the Blue chicken paste thing) and now I'm paranoid that I may be starving him. It's 334 cals per can. (He also gets a pile of treats every day for random stuff, but that's not more than another 120 calories total, I imagine. What SHOULD I be giving my big couch potato of a dog? I hate uninformative/inaccurate labels!!!
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Oct 15, 2013 20:04
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I don't have a dog yet but I'm on the waitlist for a litter next year and have been using the time till then to read up and educate myself. One of the things that I've been reading extensively is house breaking. Yesterday, I found out one of my friend is litter box-training her Pomeranian (using cat litter and all that jazz). Is this possible/feasible? And if it is, how common is it for small breeds? Thanks!
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Oct 15, 2013 20:33
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Genewiz posted:I don't have a dog yet but I'm on the waitlist for a litter next year and have been using the time till then to read up and educate myself. One of the things that I've been reading extensively is house breaking. Yesterday, I found out one of my friend is litter box-training her Pomeranian (using cat litter and all that jazz). Is this possible/feasible? And if it is, how common is it for small breeds? Thanks! I'd imagine you could train a dog to use the litter but they may also go back and eat said litter. Even if you train them out of that how much of a problem will you have when you take the dog out somewhere and it will not go to the washroom unless it's in litter.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:35
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Effingham posted:I've probably said this before (I know others must have) but I just don't get where they come up with the "feed your dog THISMUCH" on the dog food labels. My vet said half a cup to two-thirds (!), but the bag says for a dog of Mr. Bobo's size it should be THREE CUPS of the stuff (like Sab's stuff recommends). (Mr Bobo is a 9-year-old sheltie/golden mix.) I think basically feeding recommendations are there so no one can point their finger at a pet food company and accuse them of killing their dog. They need a blanket recommendation that will ensure that even the highest energy intact working dog won't fade away while eating the food day in and day out. A working intact male Brittany spaniel is going to need more food than your neutered pit mix whose only job is to hold down the couch despite being of similar size and weight, so food companies hedge their bets and recommend more food rather than less. Plus, well, the faster you go through a bag of food the faster you'll have to buy a replacement. It's tough to eyeball these things right off the bat, but eventually you get used to it and you don't need to worry so much about your dog getting X-cups of food a day. Mine get as much food as I think they need. If they're feeling pudgy, I feed less. If they feel too ribby, I feed more. If they've had a particularly active day, I'll feed an extra meal. Generally roughly halving the food recommendation on the back of a package is a good start. But nothing beats putting your hands on your dog every day or two and assessing their body condition that way. http://www.successjustclicks.com/fit-fido-or-fat-fido/ Genewiz posted:I don't have a dog yet but I'm on the waitlist for a litter next year and have been using the time till then to read up and educate myself. One of the things that I've been reading extensively is house breaking. Yesterday, I found out one of my friend is litter box-training her Pomeranian (using cat litter and all that jazz). Is this possible/feasible? And if it is, how common is it for small breeds? Thanks! It's possible, but I'd really recommend just trying to housebreak a dog properly. People use a dog's size as an excuse for it pottying indoors, but I don't think it's ever something we should accept as normal. a life less fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 20:51
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I use a food scale, the calorie count on the back of the bag and this dog food calculator. For keeping Tater at around 20.5 pounds or so with his dog food it works out to about 160 grams of kibble a day. I give him about a 140-gram allotment and expect treats to more or less make up the difference. His weigh-in at the vet last week got kudos so I must be doing something right  (I'll admit I free-feed him because I'm a bad pet owner, but he leaves food at the end of the day more often than not so meh)
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Oct 15, 2013 23:59
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a life less posted:I think basically feeding recommendations are there so no one can point their finger at a pet food company and accuse them of killing their dog. They need a blanket recommendation that will ensure that even the highest energy intact working dog won't fade away while eating the food day in and day out. A working intact male Brittany spaniel is going to need more food than your neutered pit mix whose only job is to hold down the couch despite being of similar size and weight, so food companies hedge their bets and recommend more food rather than less. Plus, well, the faster you go through a bag of food the faster you'll have to buy a replacement. Pretty much this exactly. If you feed the recommended amount on the bag and your pet gets fat, it's no big deal. If you feed the recommended amount and your pet becomes malnourished or starves, it's more of an issue. The correct amount to feed your dog is whatever keeps him at his ideal weight.
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Oct 16, 2013 04:54
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I guess I celebrated too soon. Khaleesi has backslid in her potty training. She went inside three times last night in quick succession and once this morning (literally minutes after taking her inside after she just peed). I'm not sure the microwave timer will even work this time, she peed within minutes of going outside, and three times in 1.5 hours last night. Come on dog!
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Oct 16, 2013 16:16
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Sab0921 posted:I guess I celebrated too soon. It'll happen. We went 2 months without an accident indoors and then twice in 2 days she peed inside. I'm not sure if it's because we were both home for the long weekend or not. Definitely puts you back on edge though.
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Oct 16, 2013 16:26
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I'm thinking of getting a Bernese Mountain Dog or some other giant loving beast like maybe a Nuffie or something. The only problem is that I have stairs in my house (no pun intended, I mean that literally) and I heard big dogs like the BMD can have joint issues and running up and down stairs constantly might be bad for them. Is it really something I should be concerned about? I have an entire flight of stairs up to my front door and then another one up to the bedroom, and another half flight down to the back yard, so he's going to be going up and down several times per day.
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Oct 18, 2013 01:19
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I'm sharing a 4 bedroom house with some friends now, but in a few years we'll be parting ways and I'll be getting my own place, most likely an apartment. Are dogs generally a terrible idea for apartment dwellers? Are there any suitable breeds?
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Oct 18, 2013 12:02
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I've had pits + my boston in apartments. You just have to be willing to deal with getting dressed, putting on a leash, and marching them out for EVERY potty break- I've housetrained puppies in apartments and I wouldn't recommend it if you don't want to go insane. Smaller breeds tend to be what people gravitate towards, but they tend to be more barky and can possibly become nuisances. Wouldn't choose anything super high energy if you're not very active yourself. If you can find a place that will allow large dogs, retired racing greyhounds are plentiful and tend to do amazingly in apartments, they're quiet, chill, etc. If you have to go for something small, just find some nice adult mutt- most rescues can tell you about a dog's activity level and if it's barky or not, and help steer you toward a dog that will be a good match for an apartment dweller.
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Oct 18, 2013 14:17
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Greyhounds are excellent apartment dogs. People think they need a ton of exercise, but they're really huge couch potatoes. A high-energy breed CAN do okay in an apartment, but it's a lot of work. I like Super suggestion of just going for some small-medium lazy mutt from the shelter. Maybe check into one living in a foster home, fosters always know the dog's energy level better (and whether or not they're barky little shits). Dogs like Shelties and Pomeranians probably won't be your best bet, they have a reputation for being very barky (but of course every dog is different).
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Oct 18, 2013 15:56
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Yea would highly recommend a smaller middle aged low key dog if you're not very active and want to move apartments a lot. Large breeds can be hard to find an apartment for in any city, unless you can afford to rent a house where you sometimes have more leeway with sizes and activity level.
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Oct 18, 2013 16:09
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Elderbean posted:Are dogs generally a terrible idea for apartment dwellers? Are there any suitable breeds?
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Oct 18, 2013 19:26
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I've been thinking about getting a dog for over a year now, ever since I moved into my condo a few years ago. I feel settled and financially capable of providing a proper home for a dog. I also grew up with a family dog that I helped train when I was young, so I know what I am generally in for. My question/issue lies with the very strongly worded statement in the OP, "If you are the kind of person that works 9-to-5, dogs aren't for you." To me, this seems completely ridiculous. I know a lot of folks and coworkers that have happy and healthy dogs who work 9-to-5 schedules. It seems like the OP qualifies dogs only for rich folks and/or retirees who don't have to work. For the other 95% of people in the world, I guess we're SOL when it comes to pets? A coworker told me that when he got his puppy, he took a week off to focus on bonding and training with it. His wife then took the following week off to continue the same level of care. After that, they came home often over lunch as well as made sure to spend ample time with the pup during the hours when they were home. Myself and my fiance both have access to family members that live close by who are willing to help, and we also have flexible work situations that would allow us to come home over lunch and take large periods of time off. I can also afford and am willing to shop around for doggie day care options for the early days if that is required. It feels like the OP could really be worded more diplomatically in this area.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:27
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Yeah the OP's a little harsh. I would say if you live alone, work full-time, AND go to school you might wanna hold off on getting a dog. But just working a 9-5 gig is fairly doable, especially if you have a fiance to help out and can stop by the house on lunch breaks.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:39
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