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El Gallinero Gros posted:Didn't he go undefeated for a while and get programmed with Undertaker? He just got a lot of vignettes before his debut, but they were pretty nonsensical - just Goldust quoting movies. He then got a few wins over jobbers to the stars, but the matches pretty much sucked. Then, he got the program with Razor, where he made uncomfortable passes at Ramon, sent him gifts, and what not. They had a crap match at the 1996 Royal Rumble, where Goldust won the I-C belt due to interference from the newly-turned 1-2-3 Kid. Razor pretty much focused on The Kid (and rehab/suspension) instead, and Goldust moved on to feuding with Savio Vega (where he had the title held up, and "won" it for a second time a week later) and Warrior. Later, he sort of banded with Mankind in tag team matches, and Mankind helped him retain his I-C belt in a coffin match with Undertaker at IYH: Beware of Dog, IIRC. He also jobbed to Michaels while champion at house shows in ladder matches. Eventually, he jobbed pretty hard to Ahmed Johnson, who ended up being... well... Ahmed Johnson. You know how that went. After that, they had a small angle with Jerry Lawler, where King basically asked if Goldust was gay (to put various groups at ease after a lot of negative attention) - Goldust replied with a "NO!" and a right hook. And he kind of just floated around as a directionless face with a neat outfit until TAFKAG and Luna Vachon. Not really a hard push, but, you know - 1996-1997 WWF.
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Oct 16, 2013 19:49
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Windham was never put in a position to have to carry guys. NWA was talent heavy in the ring in the 1980's. He never had to carry Black Bart because Black Bart was beneath him.
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Oct 16, 2013 19:49
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Speaking of Barry Windham, what's the story with the Dirty Yellow Dog character? I remember reading about it years after the fact, but there isn't much on Wikipedia or anything.
Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 19:52
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Red posted:He just got a lot of vignettes before his debut, but they were pretty nonsensical - just Goldust quoting movies. Getting the IC title so quickly was a really hard push in the mid 90s, as was all of the TV time and how protected he was on TV and PPV. Ahmed Johnson was another guy the WWF looked at as a future star, and Goldust was starting to draw a lot of controversy in the North Eastern media as well as from gay groups.
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Oct 16, 2013 19:54
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MassRafTer posted:Getting the IC title so quickly was a really hard push in the mid 90s, as was all of the TV time and how protected he was on TV and PPV. Ahmed Johnson was another guy the WWF looked at as a future star, and Goldust was starting to draw a lot of controversy in the North Eastern media as well as from gay groups. I guess that's true. In retrospect, it just looks/feels a lot like conservative booking, where he was given fluke/cheap wins. I get that that was part of his character, but still. I did like Dustin's post-Goldust/TAFKAG gimmick, where he was a 'born-again' type. That would've been amazing had they given him the stuff they used for the Vince/Shane vs. HBK/GOD angle. Imagine if Dustin got help from "God" in the way of various coincidences and luck, or what have you. I remember reading how he could start to pray while his opponent was on the turnbuckles, and it would randomly collapse.
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Oct 16, 2013 19:59
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Speaking of Barry Windham, what's the story with the Dirt Yellow Dog character? I remember reading about it years after the fact, but there isn't much on Wikipedia or anything. The standard "Loser Leaves Town", new masked guy debuts who "could" be the old wrestler under the mask. See Midnight Rider, Stagger Lee, Charlie Brown from Outta Town, . . . But NOT Mr. America! We'll never know who was under that mask. But the best thing about Yellow Dog was several years after Windham did the gimmick, he beat Brian Pillman in a "Loser Leaves Town" match, and Pillman came back . . . as the Yellow Dog. Which drove Windham insane.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:00
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Does anyone else remember Goldust's usher? That guy was really creepy looking. I tried to GIS "goldust usher" and got a bunch of pictures of snakes for some reason.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:08
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Tokelau All Star posted:Does anyone else remember Goldust's usher? That guy was really creepy looking. I tried to GIS "goldust usher" and got a bunch of pictures of snakes for some reason. It was Mantaur and it lasted like three weeks.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:12
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The best three weeks of our lives.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:13
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Weird I don't remember him being that fat. Then again I was eight years old.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:17
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didn't he get buried by Warrior?
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Oct 16, 2013 20:25
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sportsgenius86 posted:didn't he get buried by Warrior? They did a nothing match full of stalling that ended in a count out on PPV. Warrior was going to be their big draw and Goldust was IC champion, they didn't want either to lose and had to work around an injury... and Warrior being in the ring.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:39
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Bigass Moth posted:When an American talent gets booked in Japan, is his airfare and lodging covered by the Japanese promotion or does he have to foot the bill from his own pay? Usually the promotion pays for the airfare and lodging. There are of course some exceptions: a few years ago Zero-One would take any wrestler in for training, as long as they paid for their own airfare and paid a small sum for the training. If the guy wasn't lovely, they'd have them for the shows. Some guys even got paid, if they got over.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:42
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MassRafTer posted:They did a nothing match full of stalling that ended in a count out on PPV. Warrior was going to be their big draw and Goldust was IC champion, they didn't want either to lose and had to work around an injury... and Warrior being in the ring. I remember Scott Keith giving that match -*****. I don't think they even made contact.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:53
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MassRafTer posted:They did a nothing match full of stalling that ended in a count out on PPV. Warrior was going to be their big draw and Goldust was IC champion, they didn't want either to lose and had to work around an injury... and Warrior being in the ring. I meant Mantaur as the Usher.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:55
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sportsgenius86 posted:I meant Mantaur as the Usher. As in a match match? This I need to see.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:56
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I wonder if the gimmick still bugs Dusty. I've heard rumblings about it driving a wedge between him and Dustin (in addition to Dustin's marriage to Terri). VogeGandire posted:Yeah, of all people, Dusty should be able to empathize with getting a gimmick that was meant to bury him over as gently caress. MassRafTer posted:The Goldust gimmick was meant to be a big deal, it wasn't meant to be some burial. It was a disgusting, horrible gimmick but he was pushed really really hard right out of the gate.
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Oct 16, 2013 21:22
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Whenever I think about checking out a roundtable, I remember that Hayes is on 95% of them (for some reason) and quickly find something else to do.
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Oct 16, 2013 21:29
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Halloween Jack posted:What was Dusty's problem with the gimmick, or with Terri? I am unsure, I've never gotten details on why he had a problem with the gimmick or if he even did definitively. I'm unsure of why he had problems with Terri, but Dustin has brought it up before. He's never expanded on it something I've seen.
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Oct 16, 2013 21:47
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Here is the Warrior vs Goldust match with Mantaur as his body guard. Also Vince McMahon asking us if we're ready to get bizzare. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xihit6_goldust-vs-ultimate-warrior-ic-title-match-in-your-house-7-4-28-96_sport
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Oct 16, 2013 21:56
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Polka Dot Dusty was one of those guys who was always crazy over, but was never pushed above midcard. He'd fight evenly with Big Bossman, he'd run into Undertaker and get crushed. He got beaten silly during his feud with Ted Dibiase as I recall, but that may have been towards the end.
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Oct 16, 2013 21:58
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Why was Sgt. Slaughter ever as high up on the card as he was? Was it simply a case of him having a gimmick they could milk as much as possible out of during the Middle East situation or what? Because basically everything I've ever seen with him in-ring is terrible, and his promo and general charisma is nothing special. So why oh why was this man ever WWE champion?
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Oct 16, 2013 22:28
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I looked it up because I was bored, and Rhodes's 1989-91 WWF run was as follows: - Debuted in a loop against Ted DiBiase, subbing for Jake Roberts in either the main event or co-main of the B house show tour, and won almost every match because that's what you do with replacements. - First program was against Big Bossman coming off Hogan's program with Bossman, used as the main event of the C house show tour and the co-main for some of the larger shows on the A and B tour. Rhodes won almost every match. - Biggest program was against Randy Savage coming off Hogan's program with Savage, used mostly as the main event of the B house show tour and taken around for a bunch of runs because it was drawing fairly well especially in Dusty's old areas like Florida (even though Warrior/Rude on the A tour was bombing at the same time). Rhodes won most of the matches in the first loop by countout, won almost all of the matches in the second loop which were mostly Rhodes and Sapphire vs. Savage and Martel mixed tags, and won all of the matches (mostly various gimmick matches like cage or lumberjack) in the third loop to blow the program off - except for the SummerSlam PPV match which was really an angle. - His last program was against Ted DiBiase and they largely beat Rhodes like a drum with a pin after a belt shot since he was on his way out. They actually did this on all three tours over the course of a couple months just to make sure everyone got the point; it was first the main event of the C tour, then the co-main of the B tour, then a midcard match on the A tour. Basically they put him in the old Jay Strongbow role of going over the heels that had just done a headline run, in programs that were promoted as around the third biggest feud in the company. Then when he on his way out they used him to put over DiBiase.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:32
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GreatestLurker posted:Why was Sgt. Slaughter ever as high up on the card as he was? Because basically everything I've ever seen with him in-ring is terrible, and his promo and general charisma is nothing special. People loved him, its not like he was just your average Joe.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:33
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In the early 80's he was well known as a good bumper and a guy who could move for his size. Plus the boot camp match with Sheik solidified him BIG TIME as a guy who could draw a big crowd and put on a good show.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:42
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GreatestLurker posted:Why was Sgt. Slaughter ever as high up on the card as he was? Was it simply a case of him having a gimmick they could milk as much as possible out of during the Middle East situation or what? Because basically everything I've ever seen with him in-ring is terrible, and his promo and general charisma is nothing special. Well, right guy at the right time kind of stuff. He got over as a patriotic hero to a level that other similar guys didn't. He was a good, basic worker who actually had really good promo skills. Once he got widespread recognition for GI Joe, he was pretty much a solid family draw. For the WWF title, he was their pick to cash in on the patriotism wave in the US at the time, and had the war not ended so soon, probably would've kept a high level of interest.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:47
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MassRafTer posted:As in a match match? This I need to see. No he just runs in after the match and Warrior no sells all of his offense, does his Warrior spots, then slams him. It's at the end of the video linked above.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:48
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Red posted:For the WWF title, he was their pick to cash in on the patriotism wave in the US at the time, and had the war not ended so soon, probably would've kept a high level of interest. This is a Vince history retcon. That turn and run was not doing so well basically from the start, and really that was an angle destined to fail no matter what happened. Had Vince not already basically locked into his "Stars and Stripes Forever" WrestleMania because of how bad Warrior bombed as champion, I would bet they would have switched back to the original Warrior/Hogan rematch plan.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:50
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Do the A, B, and C tours refer to a specific set of cities? Or the relative importance of the city exmaple: NYC and LA are A cities, while St. Loius and Ralleigh are B cities and Gary, IN and Walla Walla, WA are C cities?
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Oct 16, 2013 22:52
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Nystral posted:Do the A, B, and C tours refer to a specific set of cities? Or the relative importance of the city exmaple: NYC and LA are A cities, while St. Loius and Ralleigh are B cities and Gary, IN and Walla Walla, WA are C cities? Generally speaking it was the size of arenas, although that's not strictly speaking true. Basically in that era the A tour was wherever Hogan was 90 percent of the time, the B tour was the major arena tour Hogan wasn't on, and the C tour was the <4k-5k type arenas (so basically what TNA would run these days, or what WWE runs on the "SmackDown tour" or whatever they're calling it this week). But yes, the cities were not static.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:55
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I always heard that the homophobic elements of the Goldust character came as a result of fans chanting slurs in the first two months of his debut. Although the character was effeminate, the original gimmick was to be entirely movie based which is why his look was supposed resemble an Oscar. Sort of like a living version of an Academy award. It wasn't until the Razor feud that they went full on homophobe. The Hollywood star/movie aspect was still incorporated but came secondary from that point on.
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Oct 16, 2013 23:05
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VogeGandire posted:Yeah, of all people, Dusty should be able to empathize with getting a gimmick that was meant to bury him over as gently caress. I'm sure I saw Dusty give an interview once where he said that he was upset that Dustin's potential career was reduced to "just" being the Goldust character, but he was proud of the way Dustin embraced the gimmick and made it into a long-standing money-earner for himself.
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Oct 16, 2013 23:29
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jeffersonlives posted:In late-1998, he turned on DX and joined the Corporation and was named WWF Commissioner, which was supposed to lead to his in-ring return as a heel against face DX, but he had more back problems (allegedly) so they had the Corporation turn on him and wrote him out after he re-aligned with DX as a face. Then he came back in summer 1999 in the face Commissioner role The timeline is a little off, here. He came back as a face on the Raw where Foley won the title in January, and he was around through the entire spring -- he put Vince in the Rumble, then booked the Vince / Austin cage match at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, and then appeared at WrestleMania XV to bar the corporation from ringside and name the referee (in classic Russo fashion, the referees in this match were terribly overbooked -- I think it went Chioda < Tim White < Mankind < Hebner).
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Oct 16, 2013 23:41
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jeffersonlives posted:This is a Vince history retcon. That turn and run was not doing so well basically from the start, and really that was an angle destined to fail no matter what happened. Had Vince not already basically locked into his "Stars and Stripes Forever" WrestleMania because of how bad Warrior bombed as champion, I would bet they would have switched back to the original Warrior/Hogan rematch plan. The other thing is they kind of banked on there not being an actual ground war which made the whole thing in even worse taste. Either way they were wrong as before after and during it bombed.
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Oct 16, 2013 23:51
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Timby posted:The timeline is a little off, here. He came back as a face on the Raw where Foley won the title in January, and he was around through the entire spring -- he put Vince in the Rumble, then booked the Vince / Austin cage match at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, and then appeared at WrestleMania XV to bar the corporation from ringside and name the referee (in classic Russo fashion, the referees in this match were terribly overbooked -- I think it went Chioda < Tim White < Mankind < Hebner). Mankind actually was the ref at the end of the match. Mick counted the pinfall.
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Oct 16, 2013 23:55
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Yeah, the Slaughter title reign absolutely CRASHED numbers. For example, the venue change for WM7. Supposedly for "security concerns". They actually moved from the LA Memorial Coliseum to the LA Sports Arena, because they knew they didn't have a hope in hell of getting the Memorial Coliseum even close to full.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:23
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Timby posted:The timeline is a little off, here. He came back as a face on the Raw where Foley won the title in January, and he was around through the entire spring -- he put Vince in the Rumble, then booked the Vince / Austin cage match at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, and then appeared at WrestleMania XV to bar the corporation from ringside and name the referee (in classic Russo fashion, the referees in this match were terribly overbooked -- I think it went Chioda < Tim White < Mankind < Hebner). He did make sporadic other appearances as Commissioner throughout 1999 and 2000, but I was only running through the angles that were supposed to bring him back as an active wrestler. That probably wasn't as clear as it could have been.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:27
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Has El Dandy ever commented on Bret's namedropping interview? It seems to be the only thing he's known for.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:47
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jeffersonlives posted:This is a Vince history retcon. That turn and run was not doing so well basically from the start, and really that was an angle destined to fail no matter what happened. Had Vince not already basically locked into his "Stars and Stripes Forever" WrestleMania because of how bad Warrior bombed as champion, I would bet they would have switched back to the original Warrior/Hogan rematch plan. Yeah? I knew the WM venue change cover story was bullshit, but I thought the angle had legs during Desert Storm.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:12
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Red posted:Yeah? I knew the WM venue change cover story was bullshit, but I thought the angle had legs during Desert Storm. Slaughter was probably the coldest heel Hogan worked a significant program with in his entire 84-93 initial WWF run. The kind of heat Slaughter had was go away/"why are you doing this tremendously insensitive angle" type heat (and it was pretty limited), and they tried everything because Vince thought it was such a loving masterstroke. That run is a lot better remembered today than it really was because all anyone remembers is Slaughter burning the t-shirt and the Mania match which by Hogan standards of the era was actually fairly good, but there was a year of heatless awful bullshit leading into and out of the Mania program.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:24
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