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Paper Jam Dipper posted:You just compared the best selling console of all time to Wii U sales. It doesn't help that those sales were 12 years after it was released.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:07
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:You just compared the best selling console of all time to Wii U sales. It's a comparison worth making. 3200 units moved in a month is essentially end-of-life sales for a game system. It's the sales you expect from something well after a new generation of systems has established itself.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:11
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Jeffrey posted:It sold 3200 units in Japan this week. The PS2 sold 2000(new!) units in its last week of production, in the last week of December, 2012, over ten years after its initial release. That was 10 months ago. I know the PS2 was pretty unique in how dominant it was, but drat, those numbers are pretty telling. Does anyone know when do holiday sales start to pick up? In fairness, the PS2 in Japan is still a highly sought-after system and has a ton of exclusives (especially for rhythm games and shmups). About a year after Sony discontinued the fat (backwards-compatible) PS3, they were worth about 65000 yen secondhand, and a Japanese PS2 is still worth about 15000 yen ($150ish) secondhand for similar reasons. It's not like here where a secondhand PS2 can be had for less than $40 because there are very few worthwhile games that weren't re-released either as a PS3 downloadable or an HD remake.
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Oct 17, 2013 14:37
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univbee posted:In fairness, the PS2 in Japan is still a highly sought-after system and has a ton of exclusives (especially for rhythm games and shmups). About a year after Sony discontinued the fat (backwards-compatible) PS3, they were worth about 65000 yen secondhand, and a Japanese PS2 is still worth about 15000 yen ($150ish) secondhand for similar reasons. It's not like here where a secondhand PS2 can be had for less than $40 because there are very few worthwhile games that weren't re-released either as a PS3 downloadable or an HD remake. 
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Oct 17, 2013 17:04
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CapnAndy posted:Is Japan not aware that PS2 emulators exist? I mean, $150 Emulator support is pretty slipshod for some of these niche titles, especially their Japanese versions (there's a bunch of games whose Japanese versions won't load on PCSX2 even though the US version works fine).
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Oct 17, 2013 17:07
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CapnAndy posted:Is Japan not aware that PS2 emulators exist? I mean, $150 I think it's odd that you went to emulators instead of "why didn't they already have one by then".
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Oct 17, 2013 17:38
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Doesn't japan have gently caress-you-in-the-rear end antipiracy laws? I remember they went whole hog taking down a decentralized p2p file sharing network and showed no mercy.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:42
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:Doesn't japan have gently caress-you-in-the-rear end antipiracy laws? They can buy the games still, the only thing they'd have to pirate is the ps2 bios. Not exactly a big fish there.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:45
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Ps2 emulators still require a pretty powerful computer as well, and many Japanese people don't even own a computer much less a particularly great one.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:52
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Jeffrey posted:They can buy the games still This is important. If you live in Japan and have electricity, you are pretty much guaranteed to be walking distance (or at least cheap train ticket distance) from a dozen used game shops, which will collectively have the complete library of every game for every system made in the last 30 years, with very few games costing more than $25 (most things will be under $5 and CIB).
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Oct 17, 2013 18:01
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While roms are pretty dummy proof from the 16 bit era and back, I could not exactly figure out how to emulate anything more complicated than that smoothly to the point where it's enjoyable to play. Whenever people say how easy it is I have no idea what they are talking about. Which is also why I'd probably buy a ton of N64 or Gamecube games on the Virtual Console
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Oct 17, 2013 18:19
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Install Windows posted:I think it's odd that you went to emulators instead of "why didn't they already have one by then".
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Oct 17, 2013 20:07
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RagnarokAngel posted:Ps2 emulators still require a pretty powerful computer as well, and many Japanese people don't even own a computer much less a particularly great one. How can you not have a computer in a developed nation in 2013?
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Oct 17, 2013 20:09
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Boiled Water posted:How can you not have a computer in a developed nation in 2013? Most people have ipods or tiny netbooks or something. My salaryman father in law still uses some kind of athlon 64 windows xp type of thing full of ad bars and whatnot to do his office work and facebook (takes about 10 minutes to even boot it up and reach a website, I've been meaning to fix it up for him). People just don't really care about having a fast computer.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:18
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Boiled Water posted:How can you not have a computer in a developed nation in 2013? Desktops and even laptops are kind of going out of vogue with cheap tablets and the saturation of smartphones.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:29
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Boiled Water posted:How can you not have a computer in a developed nation in 2013? You might not have much need for one at home. Japan is really weird as far as keeping old hardware going as long as possible, too. I lived there when Vista came out, and every store that sold Vista also offered it on regular CD, because it was common enough via janky upgrades to have a good enough comp for 32-bit Japanese Vista but not have a DVD drive.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:31
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univbee posted:Japan is really weird as far as keeping old hardware going as long as possible, too. It's kind of sad when "Japan does not subscribe to perceived obsolescence" is considered weird and not what everyone should be doing.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:49
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's kind of sad when "Japan does not subscribe to perceived obsolescence" is considered weird and not what everyone should be doing. Well, as a business you need next business day support (or spares), and your software had better still be supported if you're on the internet. One of the schools where I taught at the time had its computer lab on Windows ME, which is unquestionably weird and wrong for 2007.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:54
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univbee posted:One of the schools where I taught at the time had its computer lab on Windows ME, which is unquestionably weird and wrong for 2007. Most business PCs end up having to run super old versions of windows, IE, Java etc because people who code stuff for businesses tend to loving suck and require specific versions of things, hard coded into it. Having to use an amazingly out of date version of java and remote in to a windows xp machine to access our database searching tool in 2011 were some of the highlights of working for an ISP.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:58
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Most business PCs end up having to run super old versions of windows, IE, Java etc because people who code stuff for businesses tend to loving suck and require specific versions of things, hard coded into it. It's normally browsers they do that for, not OSes. Businesses hold on to Windows XP forever because it's cheaper, not normally due to business need.
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Oct 17, 2013 21:09
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I've noticed that the more popular something like this gets, the more likely it is to get shut down. I'm also guessing this was the biggest problem Nintendo had with the project: quote:Like any child of the 1980s, I was excited to discover Full Screen Mario, a meticulous recreation of "Super Mario Brothers" built on the latest Web standards. Not only does it let you play the original 32 levels, it also offers randomly generated new levels and even the ability to design your own. And the software is open source, allowing others to add features. That's probably why it got legal attention while general ROM hacks like Kaizo Mario that change the game around haven't. The rest of the article also goes on an anti-copyright extension tirade and makes arguments like this: quote:
Viewtiful Jew fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 21:28
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Viewtiful Jew posted:That's probably why it got legal attention while general ROM hacks like Kaizo Mario that change the game around haven't. You're comparing a website that I've seen shared on Facebook to a rom hack I have never heard of before... and how the hell do you shut down a rom that's not centralized on a main site? That's like Beyonce trying to get photos of her taken off the internet. 28 year copyright is silly by todays standards anyway when there are so many marketplaces to distribute older media. Nobody envisioned digital marketplaces back then, or stuff like Netflix.
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Oct 17, 2013 21:42
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Don't you think Mario is an iconic enough cultural thing that it belongs to the public consciousness? I know I do, Nintendo could declare tomorrow that Mario is a now a slender businessman who wears a suit and shaved his mustache and it wouldn't affect anyone's perception of what Mario is. I'm all for that being public domain. Mickey Mouse is much more blatant there. The right of the public to own its own culture overrules the right of one company to make more profit off of one particular business model.
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Oct 17, 2013 21:48
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Astro7x posted:You're comparing a website that I've seen shared on Facebook to a rom hack I have never heard of before... and how the hell do you shut down a rom that's not centralized on a main site? That's like Beyonce trying to get photos of her taken off the internet. On the Washington Post there was also an interview with the kid behind FSM. He ends the interview giving his thoughts about the potential legal matters of the issue: quote:Super Mario Brothers" is copyrighted to Nintendo. Is that something you're concerned about? I guess I also mentioned Kaizo because I can see people turning this into an attack on fan-made creations as a whole, which can include mods I'm assuming. So I was just guessing something some people might think would be in legal trouble now. This is ignoring the whole "Full Screen Mario Project had an entire site dedicated to it" issue. Viewtiful Jew fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 21:49
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Jeffrey posted:Don't you think Mario is an iconic enough cultural thing that it belongs to the public consciousness? I know I do, Nintendo could declare tomorrow that Mario is a now a slender businessman who wears a suit and shaved his mustache and it wouldn't affect anyone's perception of what Mario is. I'm all for that being public domain. Mickey Mouse is much more blatant there. Why does the public have more of a right to the IP than the creator of it?
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Oct 17, 2013 22:05
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quote:I think it would be a really jerk move for Nintendo to take it down. To take it down would be a spit in the face to Web developers and game enthusiasts everywhere. What a tit. Jerks! Enforcing their copyright on my janky facsimile of their game!
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Oct 17, 2013 22:09
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Jeffrey posted:Don't you think Mario is an iconic enough cultural thing that it belongs to the public consciousness? I know I do, Nintendo could declare tomorrow that Mario is a now a slender businessman who wears a suit and shaved his mustache and it wouldn't affect anyone's perception of what Mario is. I'm all for that being public domain. Mickey Mouse is much more blatant there. There's a pretty big difference between owning culture and direct 1-for-1 copies of a product that is currently being sold. I'd think something like Super Mario Crossover is a better argument in this regards and even that runs into the issue of basically being "here is Mario Brothers, it just has a bunch of extra stuff" but at least contains a fair bit of altered content and mechanics as well. (Even if all those mechanics are also borrowed from other games.) And the "well it hurts our gaming culture" argument is ridiculous. Gaming shouldn't be regurgitating Mario Bros with Obama's face stapled on top for eternity and endlessly recreating a popular thing because you don't have the time or skill to create something yourself isn't really good for "culture" in any degree. I mean I think a lot of copyright law is a total load of bullshit but "wouldn't it be great if everyone could just make infinite clones of the same things over and over?!" is the worst possible argument. Christ, if someone wants to make a Mario clone with some creative new ideas, nothing is stopping them. They just can't use a dude with a red hat and mustache as their protagonist. Look at Rayman Origins, which borrows a bunch of the multiplayer ideas from New Super Mario Bros but does its own things as well. Rayman's an established dude as well but c'mon. There are tons of existing clones, copies, knockoffs and "spiritual sequels" on the market even with the stupid copyright laws we have in place. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 22:21
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Nintendo put out their NPD press release saying that Wii U sales for September were up 200% over August. August was ~30,000 if I remember right, which means September is in the 90,000 region. I was just reminded that September is a 5 week month, though, so that's the equivalent of 72k in a normal month. Still not healthy numbers, but it's definitely the first good thing that's happened to the Wii U in any region in a long time.
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Oct 17, 2013 22:46
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The very first Mario game, the Donkey Kong arcade machine, will become public domain in the US in 2075. Maybe 28 years is too short (if that were still the rule, Donkey Kong would've entered the public domain in 2008), but 95 years is most definitely too long.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:00
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Patter Song posted:The very first Mario game, the Donkey Kong arcade machine, will become public domain in the US in 2075. Maybe 28 years is too short (if that were still the rule, Donkey Kong would've entered the public domain in 2008), but 95 years is most definitely too long. Don't worry, Disney will make sure that gets longer and longer. The easy way to know when something is going to be public domain is to find out if its before or after Mickey Mouse. If its before its public domain. If its after ahahahahahahaha.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:05
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I totally understand that people want to see other companies put Mario in their games so they never have to buy a Nintendo console again, but you have to realize that Nintendo's IPs are pretty much all they have keeping them afloat. Ultimately copyright is not about stopping Widescreen Mario Bros, it's to prevent other companies to profit off your intellectual property. Even with the Let's Play stuff Nintendo allowed it, that just wanted to put their ads before the videos
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Oct 17, 2013 23:07
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's kind of sad when "Japan does not subscribe to perceived obsolescence" is considered weird and not what everyone should be doing. That's really out of context because Japan can be just as much of a consumer culture, it's just not about PCs.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:13
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Crowbear posted:Nintendo put out their NPD press release saying that Wii U sales for September were up 200% over August.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:15
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Quest For Glory II posted:That's really not enough to do any actual good and I'm still wondering how Nintendo expects to reach 9 million sales by March. Hey man, it's a start. 90,000 would be bad for a home console in a normal month, let alone a month with a price drop, a bundle with a big push, and 5 weeks of reporting, but in the context of the Wii U Nintendo is probably doing backflips right now. And they won't sniff 9 million sales. I have no clue why they're being so bullheaded and refusing to revise their predictions.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:19
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I guarantee you no one at Nintendo is doing backflips. I bet you they're saying "why isn't this a smash hit already" and kicking the floor a lot.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:20
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Someone on neogaf updated the chart with the estimate for some context:
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Oct 17, 2013 23:22
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Astro7x posted:I totally understand that people want to see other companies put Mario in their games so they never have to buy a Nintendo console again, but you have to realize that Nintendo's IPs are pretty much all they have keeping them afloat. Ultimately copyright is not about stopping Widescreen Mario Bros, it's to prevent other companies to profit off your intellectual property. Even with the Let's Play stuff Nintendo allowed it, that just wanted to put their ads before the videos Speaking of which, I can see this is going to go swimmingly. (Though I don't know if it's because they used one of the official Pokemon trailers and that's what set off the YouTube copyright match alarm.) From what I've been able to tell watching the story over the summer any game that came out before New Super Mario Bros U probably isn't going to get matched by anything, but afterwards any big name title that came out recently is noticed by the system. There also seems to be a chance to be white-listed by Nintendo which gives you the go ahead to monetize vids with their new games as well, in the case of the guy who originally went to the gaming news with the whole story. Viewtiful Jew fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 23:23
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This does at least establish that sales rise with releases people care about even a little, so there's room for Nintendo to hope it won't be a total debacle once the major new games are in town.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:36
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Completely unsurprising and yet still heartbreaking, but Wonderful 101 isn't even in the top 50 sales chart 
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Oct 17, 2013 23:50
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Crowbear posted:Completely unsurprising and yet still heartbreaking, but Wonderful 101 isn't even in the top 50 sales chart It probably wouldn't be even if it was release don PS3/360.  It would probably have sold better but it was basically destined to die.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:55
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