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Fister Roboto posted:I'm choosing to interpret this as Nomura actually being banished to an alternate timeline. So you mean like they trapped him in the N-Zone or are we talking Time Kompression?
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Oct 18, 2013 03:05
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The White Dragon posted:So you mean like they trapped him in the N-Zone or are we talking Time Kompression? The former implies a comparison to Gilgamesh, one which I'm not prepared to make.
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Oct 18, 2013 03:11
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Fister Roboto posted:The former implies a comparison to Gilgamesh, one which I'm not prepared to make. For what it's worth, FFV was Nomura's first big assignment when he first joined Square Soft. He did the monster designs.
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Oct 18, 2013 03:20
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I will say that the writing of Revenant Wings is pretty good, and apparently Toriyama as responsible for it. Unless it was this other dude, Takanari Ishiyama, and Toriyama just sat around picking his nose. Even if he is responsible, I wouldn't let him go near a word processor. The FFXIII series (UUUUGGGGGHHHHH) does not foster good feelings about him.Sunning posted:It's easy to be cynical about the formation of this committee but I think it's an improvement over their previous attitude. According to Yoshida, the company had become complacent after FF's success and the thinning of their Japanese competitors. They let FFXIV release in its original state because they thought the strength of the brand would overcomes any criticism of its archaic game design. Sometimes, a company's worst enemy is itself as it becomes drunk on past successes and fails to better itself. I think that really is SE's problem. They need a notable competitor who can kick their rear end and keep them on the ball. Original FFXIV was some horseshit an a serious mark on the both the company and the series. quote:They let FFXIV release in its original state because they thought the strength of the brand would overcomes any criticism of its archaic game design They can totally get hosed for this though. You were designing an MMO! Not a loving linear single player game! In this day and age, innovation is all you got. You won't be able to wow people with nice music and pretty graphics in this genre. Your game needs to remain good after 50 hours. If it falls apart in the first 6, you've got a failure on your hands.
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Oct 18, 2013 03:41
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Speaking of FFV, it's on sale for $10 on the Google Play Android store at the moment. Not sure about iOS, but I imagine it has a similar discount. I've heard pretty good things about the updated enemy art and sprites.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:00
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It's actually a pretty good port, but for the love of god disable the diagonal d-pad function - you'll get stuck trying to go up stairs and doors. Music is untouched, graphics look nice, and Auto-Battle makes grinding less annoying.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:03
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SSNeoman posted:I think that really is SE's problem. They need a notable competitor who can kick their rear end and keep them on the ball. Original FFXIV was some horseshit an a serious mark on the both the company and the series. The last ten years are a serious mark on both the company and the series. If it wasn't for Eidos they'd probably be bankrupt now, rather than in the end of FY 2015.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:12
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I have hope for the future if only because how loving good FFIV:ARR is.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:32
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Mordiceius posted:I have hope for the future if only because how loving good FFIV:ARR is. Yeah, FF14 is a really good sign that they finally pulled their heads out of their asses, realized they've been making really lovely games lately and trying to coast on the brand power, and actually decided to do something about it.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:36
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, FF14 is a really good sign that they finally pulled their heads out of their asses, realized they've been making really lovely games lately and trying to coast on the brand power, and actually decided to do something about it. The thing that amazes me most about FF14 and I cannot express how amazing it is: the translation/localization. It is so loving good. This game seriously has some of the best MMO writing ever.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:37
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Yeah, I wouldn't call it the holy grail WOW-killer, but it's the closest an MMO has ever been I'd say.
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Oct 18, 2013 06:39
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, I wouldn't call it the holy grail WOW-killer, but it's the closest an MMO has ever been I'd say. Didn't WoW self-destruct more or less, usership dying off by like half in the space of a month pretty recently? If so, the market is clamoring for a new ship to jump to, MMO players are cut of that chainsmoker cloth.
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Oct 18, 2013 07:00
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WOW has been losing subscribers at a consistent stream lately, but they're still well in the 7-digit range.
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Oct 18, 2013 07:06
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The White Dragon posted:Didn't WoW self-destruct more or less, usership dying off by like half in the space of a month pretty recently? If so, the market is clamoring for a new ship to jump to, MMO players are cut of that chainsmoker cloth. No, subscription numbers are presently at about 2/3rds lifetime peak back in '08 or so. This decline has been fairly steady for the past three years, and may have more to do with structural changes in gaming (League of Legends); I'd say it's incredibly unclear if any future MMO will ever be able to seriously compete with WOW--because the market may simply no longer exist.
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Oct 18, 2013 07:06
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Ragequit posted:Speaking of FFV, it's on sale for $10 on the Google Play Android store at the moment. Not sure about iOS, but I imagine it has a similar discount. I've heard pretty good things about the updated enemy art and sprites. As of right this minute I don't see a discount on the iOS version. Seeing as how Square Enix usually discounts their iOS games leading up to Christmas, I wouldn't expect a price drop before late November or early December.
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Oct 18, 2013 07:24
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Ragequit posted:Speaking of FFV, it's on sale for $10 on the Google Play Android store at the moment. Not sure about iOS, but I imagine it has a similar discount. I've heard pretty good things about the updated enemy art and sprites. $16.00 felt too high but $10.00 was just right for me. Finally picked it up for my Android tablet. I wish it had been out for this year's Four Job Fiesta but I haven't played it in a few years so it'll be a nice treat!
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Oct 18, 2013 12:12
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Levantine posted:$16.00 felt too high but $10.00 was just right for me. Finally picked it up for my Android tablet. I wish it had been out for this year's Four Job Fiesta but I haven't played it in a few years so it'll be a nice treat! Yeah thats what I wanted it for as well and then I remembered I hadn't played it since 2006 on the GBA and holy crap are their a few bosses I'm unprepared for without Blue Mage.
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Oct 18, 2013 14:54
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The White Dragon posted:So you mean like they trapped him in the N-Zone or are we talking Time Kompression? Never played 13-2, had enough of 13 with 13, but I'm curious, is it just an in-joke of some sort, or do they actually spell it 'Kompression' in the game? If so, why?
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Oct 18, 2013 15:28
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Theglavwen posted:Never played 13-2, had enough of 13 with 13, but I'm curious, is it just an in-joke of some sort, or do they actually spell it 'Kompression' in the game? If so, why? Its from FF8 and yes, they do spell it Kompression because the game has 3 sequential main villains so they ran out of time to give the final boss any sort of interesting character traits and just instead had her have a thick "accent."
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Oct 18, 2013 15:30
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Levantine posted:$16.00 felt too high but $10.00 was just right for me. Finally picked it up for my Android tablet. I wish it had been out for this year's Four Job Fiesta but I haven't played it in a few years so it'll be a nice treat! It seems like the iOS port changed enough mechanics to make some of the trickier/more gimmicky bosses nearly impossible for several FJF teams, since the tried-and-true tricks don't work right anymore. I'd be surprised if the Android version isn't running on the same engine. The problem bosses are almost all optional, but it's still something to be aware of.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:13
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Schwartzcough posted:It seems like the iOS port changed enough mechanics to make some of the trickier/more gimmicky bosses nearly impossible for several FJF teams, since the tried-and-true tricks don't work right anymore. I'd be surprised if the Android version isn't running on the same engine. The problem bosses are almost all optional, but it's still something to be aware of. I believe that most of those changes were reverted, at least according to reports on IRC.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:18
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Barudak posted:Its from FF8 and yes, they do spell it Kompression because the game has 3 sequential main villains so they ran out of time to give the final boss any sort of interesting character traits and just instead had her have a thick "accent." And the fact she's Rinoa.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:39
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Mordiceius posted:And the fact she's Rinoa. That's not really fact but more like speculation, right? I don't think S-E has confirmed it.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:51
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Renoistic posted:That's not really fact but more like speculation, right? I don't think S-E has confirmed it. They've confirmed the exact opposite actually.
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Oct 18, 2013 18:52
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Barudak posted:Its from FF8 and yes, they do spell it Kompression because the game has 3 sequential main villains so they ran out of time to give the final boss any sort of interesting character traits and just instead had her have a thick "accent."  Wow, yeah, alright, did know that then actually. Brain blank there I guess, just got so used to the 13 talk in the thread I suppose I just defaulted to it being some sort of 13-2 joke. Thanks though.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:07
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Barudak posted:Its from FF8 and yes, they do spell it Kompression because the game has 3 sequential main villains so they ran out of time to give the final boss any sort of interesting character traits and just instead had her have a thick "accent." Ultimecia was just the worst.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:20
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The concept behind Ultimecia and the time travel stuff is okay, I find, it's just not executed very well at all.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:25
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Pesky Splinter posted:The concept behind Ultimecia and the time travel stuff is okay, I find, it's just not executed very well at all. FF8's plot is like having somebody try to tell you the plots to a trilogy of films they watched when they were a kid. Like, you'll get the character names and the overarching idea but everything after the first one is a blur and there are looooots of key details missing to make the plot sound coherent. Increase Missile Innaccuracy: Yes/No
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Oct 18, 2013 19:35
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FF8's plot is trying to do too much. A time paradox plot involving a family fighting a villain over multiple time periods? Sure, that's a cool idea. That idea could hold a story on its own. A group of childhood friends reunite to battle their evil possessed 'mother': Alright, that's a good hook. You can do something with that. A mercenary organization is created to secretly prepare soldiers to battle an ancient evil: Not bad. A bit cliche but whatever, you can have fun with it. A taciturn soldier learns to love while meeting a free-spirited young woman: A bit odd for a video game but hey, they said romance was the central idea in FF8. Instead you get a time paradox plot where a group of childhood friends are unknowingly reunited in a mercenary organization in order to fight an ancient evil that also is possessing their stepmother while the protagonist is secretly also the son of another protagonist who is fighting a version of the ancient evil in the past to protect his adoptive daughter who has magical time travel powers because ... gently caress it, you get the idea. There's too much going on and half of it could have been trimmed without losing anything.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:53
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I played through FF8 last year and I don't think any part of the game makes sense once you enter the Fire Cavern. I guess that makes practically the whole game nonsensical. It's a mishmash of different influences, such as popular Japanese high school dramas, to create set piece moments and surprise twists. What occurs between these moments usually doesn't make a lot of sense. For example, you have a group of teenage mercenaries who have never fully completed an actual mission attempt to assassinate a powerful sorceress. This group is comprised of various individuals who either disobeyed orders during their final exam, were demoted due to poor leadership skills, or don't understand sexual harassment policies. In fact, Irvine doesn't appear to have ever assassinated a person before in a high profile mission. Quistis also leaves her post during the mission because she feels sorry for insulting Rinoa. The defeat of the sorceress is SeeD's number one priority according to various SeeD personnel. However, they can't spare their best and most experienced mercenaries for this vital mission which could have dire political consequences. It's not like there was a time limit on the mission since you're forced to enter some ruins to retrieve a key code. It's as if the decision to put all of these inexperienced people with emotional baggage together was a bad idea gone haywire. These scenes can create good drama but what leads up to these situations doesn't make much sense.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:59
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^^^^^Glad to know I'm not the only one baffled by Quistis abandoning her duties. That's pretty much word for word my thoughts when I played that mission the last time I played. One time I tried defending FF8. I gave up after I started convincing myself it was more terrible than I thought. If your name isn't Squall or Rinoa, you don't matter to the plot. Rinoa is apparently contractually obligated to need rescue at least once a disc, Squall does everything. Everyone else pretty much fails at whatever they do without Squall, who then fixes their mistake or deals with the fallout. Still, Selphie likes explosions and ends the game with a cowboy boyfriend and a hotrod red Dragon Spaceship, which objectively makes her the best character. 
Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 20:09
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Pesky Splinter posted:The concept behind Ultimecia and the time travel stuff is okay, I find, it's just not executed very well at all. No game has done time travel correctly or interestingly since Chrono Trigger, I could easily argue. FF8 breaks its own logic and subverts its own rules of time travel and the Ultimecia business over and over again and just shoots its own plot in the foot.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:14
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To quote myself from earlier on FFVIIIs plot: So like, uh, theres a hereditary witch who overthrew a democratically elected government on live TV but a group of super soldiers trained at an academy which is also a hovership and owned by a space alien decide to stop her except they're all orphans she raised together who don't remember it because they equipped magical beings to themselves and also the moon is full of space monsters who slam into the planet which has both a seaside wood-ship fishing village and a futuristic floating city that spans a continent but its kind of all irrelevant because a someone from both the future and present decided to merge all of time into a single moment because she has contracted the hereditary disease of being a witch and when defeated the hero requires has to remember his girlfriends face so he can escape the nexus of time and watch his best friend choke to death on hotdogs. In FFVIII the only way this entire mish-mash makes sense is if we assume Time Kompression causes "filler" bits of time to be deleted so only the parts that are 100% necessary for Ultimecia to exist are kept explaining why everything is a cluster-gently caress hodgepodge. This of course is a cool idea for a game and has no in game backing as far as I remember so we're left to assume the whole thing is just really badly plotted and written.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:25
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There's actually that one short window in the middle of that game where Squall stops being a complete jackass and the LOVE STORY hasn't yet kicked into high gear that I actually like. I mean people are always saying "hurr hurr an emo in fetal position game in a nutshell" about that one scene, but it's the part where Squall realizes what a cock he is. I mean the problem with the character was never that he wangsted all the time, the only times there's really any of that is that scene and the one in Galbadia Garden. The problem was the "go talk to a wall" bit. An anti-social protagonist isn't necessarily horrible but he's loving cartoonish for half the game. And it's pretty hard to shake off the impression when that's the first half. Tidus had the same problem - character development does happen but the place where they start is so ridiculous you just don't have enough goodwill for them to notice.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:33
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FF8 is pretty dumb nonsense and it's really fun/funny for some major moments: Love scene in space, Kickboxing some dude on a hover scooter, the fact that no matter how dire and dramatic things are in whatever cinema scene just ended everybody is willing to drop everything and play some cards. I just thought the battle system wasn't enough to prop up everything else, which they even admit by including a very easily obtained ability that allows to skip every fight for the rest of the game.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:57
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FF8 is really dumb but the ride was real fun. FF10 is the first Final Fantasy game where I was straight up disappointed and never did a replay. It was also the last modern FF game I played (mostly because my launch-day PS2 died and I couldn't get an emulator working for FF12.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:03
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Azure_Horizon posted:No game has done time travel correctly or interestingly since Chrono Trigger, I could easily argue. FF8 breaks its own logic and subverts its own rules of time travel and the Ultimecia business over and over again and just shoots its own plot in the foot. Legacy of Kain  To be fair, it's hard to do time travel plots, and keep on top of them, and make everything logical and consistant. VIII's isnt too bad in terms of that (ignoring the obvious predestination paradox - but whatever, suspension of disbelief), being a closed loop. The only what-the-gently caress for me, is Ellone being able to send peoples' consciousness back in time into other people (as passengers into their mind, almost), which the people in the past can feel as some sort of sensation. What. Why even bother with that poo poo, it's just easier to say "Big bad witch has magic time travel powers, the end".
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Oct 18, 2013 21:05
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Great Lakes Log posted:FF8 is pretty dumb nonsense and it's really fun/funny for some major moments: Love scene in space, Kickboxing some dude on a hover scooter, the fact that no matter how dire and dramatic things are in whatever cinema scene just ended everybody is willing to drop everything and play some cards.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:08
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Outside of the Card Game I will always love FFVIII for forcing me to pass some exams so I can scrounge up money to rent a car to go to an abandoned ancient ruin and then beat up two minotaur brothers before realizing I didn't buy enough gas so now I have to walk back to 1940s futuristic Paris that's ruled by a witch.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:23
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Azure_Horizon posted:No game has done time travel correctly or interestingly since Chrono Trigger, I could easily argue. FF8 breaks its own logic and subverts its own rules of time travel and the Ultimecia business over and over again and just shoots its own plot in the foot. You should try Radiant Historia
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