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veekie posted:seems likely to be largely the same, a subtle awareness of other shards in the vicinity and possibly, some slight influence over the subconscious aspects of their manifestations. The end result does seem to be the same, but since Taylor and Jack's shards do very different things the mechanics of how it works have to be different. Not that this is actually an important distinction or of any real relevance to the ongoing story. TOOT BOOT posted:You'd think it would have taken a little more convincing for Amy to mess with brains again. It's worth noting that Amy paid pretty dearly for not listening to others in the past.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:56
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Taylor has always been hyper-aware of parahumans, this has been generally attributed to her control over bugs. This alone, even without directly interacting with the bugs, can give a similar benefit Jack Slash had--that of being able to react before it should even be possible. In all honesty, it's even more visible with Taylor as the PRT directly noticed this and hypothesized she had some form of prescience or short-range clairvoyance. Or maybe Jack Slash just killed everyone that could have noticed it in him. Either way, they've both been stupidly good at tracking exactly what's going down. The other thing though is that Taylor's also been traditionally good at figuring out powers, their weaknesses, and how they interact. I think this is likely a bit of her shard shining through and is an unnoticed Thinker power (or maybe Trump?). eta: Also the latter "power" definitely shows itself when she controls Canary; she uses the song in a way I don't think Canary ever knew possible, and doesn't bother with verbal commands considering she doesn't really have the fine control for that over her subjects. Or herself.
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Oct 15, 2013 21:55
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Current theory going is that Taylor might not have to deal with any of the mental limits others have on their powers while controlling them, because many of those limits come not from the shard but from the mind of the controller of the shard, and Taylor probably doesn't have to directly control brains in order to control those powers. I have no clue if that's true or not, and I kind of doubt it, but if it is true, it'd be sort of a big loving deal. Oh gosh, Taylor might be inadvertently teaching her shard how to be human. NecroMonster fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 22:37
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NecroMonster posted:Current theory going is that Taylor might not have to deal with any of the mental limits others have on their powers while controlling them, because many of those limits come not from the shard but from the mind of the controller of the shard, and Taylor probably doesn't have to directly control brains in order to control those powers. Hey, I totally claimed that as my theory this morning! <  >quote:Oh gosh, Taylor might be inadvertently teaching her shard how to be human. This, not so much. Maybe Taylor becomes a Worm at the end of the series instead of teaching the Worm to be human?
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Oct 16, 2013 04:15
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Grundulum posted:Hey, I totally claimed that as my theory this morning! < I don't think it's that Taylor even needs to become a Worm. She isn't needed, only her shard. The shard that is currently learning how to think, act, and move like a human being. Maybe that's Eden's answer somehow. Maybe incorporating some "humanity" into what the Worms are is how the cycle gets broken. Or maybe Zion takes Taylor's shard back and that tips Zion himself far enough into the direction of human that he'll no longer have any protection against his own humanity, driving him either bonkers or simply emotionally breaking him. Seriously though, the series has two major themes; Morality and Consequences. If these don't come up somehow in the resolution it'll be... well not great.
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Oct 16, 2013 05:39
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I think I would have liked the end of Taylor's story being that she lost her power and went back to having a normal life but it's really not possible for anyone to have a normal life now.
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Oct 16, 2013 05:57
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You have to respect the fact that Wildbow never gave into the temptation to give Taylor more power as the stakes got higher and higher. He did things the hard way and wrote around it for 3 years. She never felt irrelevant even though her power is one of the worst in the entire series.
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Oct 16, 2013 06:32
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SerSpook posted:Because her shard gives a similar combat advantage, as said by Golem when he compared Jack's thinker ability to Taylor's. It was reflected on by Taylor at some point that her hyper-awareness of everything around her through the fine control of her bugs gave her an advantage. Minute detail stuff like bits of airflow, trajectory, etc.
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Oct 16, 2013 08:59
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TOOT BOOT posted:You have to respect the fact that Wildbow never gave into the temptation to give Taylor more power as the stakes got higher and higher. He did things the hard way and wrote around it for 3 years. She never felt irrelevant even though her power is one of the worst in the entire series. While her power isn't a top tier combat power, it's far from one of the worst, possessing immense flexibility in information gathering, huge range and also quite lethal to anything without defensive powers. EDIT: Hell, the only reason it looks weak is because she insists on taking on Endbringers and Zion, when they are immune to poison and resistant to any physical damage smaller than a cruise missile. Fellwenner posted:It was reflected on by Taylor at some point that her hyper-awareness of everything around her through the fine control of her bugs gave her an advantage. Minute detail stuff like bits of airflow, trajectory, etc. She's giving the insects too much credit I think, there are details she acquires with them that she couldn't have gotten without the person in question noticing, since it'd involve a full body bug carpet. veekie fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 09:15
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Well, I was paraphrasing, so could have gotten some details off.
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Oct 16, 2013 09:42
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Fellwenner posted:It was reflected on by Taylor at some point that her hyper-awareness of everything around her through the fine control of her bugs gave her an advantage. Minute detail stuff like bits of airflow, trajectory, etc. I assume, in retrospect, she was able to shoot him precisely because she was shooting him. Not using her powers. If she'd been throwing bugs at him he'd have known, and avoided it, but she was doing something basically mundane, so he couldn't so easily.
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Oct 16, 2013 19:55
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But in that case a Tinker using a hypertech gun should work just fine.
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Oct 16, 2013 20:17
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Taylor absolutely uses her power when she shoots most of the time. She even notes this when firing at the S9; they are super-accurate shots fired rapidly, because her power gives her hyper-awareness of where everyone is and the shooting environment in general. Is this something Jack Slash could read? Don't know, but it involves her power. edit: Taylor also legitimately has one of the most terrifying powers in the series precisely due to this hyper-awareness and infinite multi-tasking, more so than controlling bugs at least.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:19
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veekie posted:But in that case a Tinker using a hypertech gun should work just fine. I don't think we've seen this case in order to test it out, to be honest, unless memory fails me. Tinker hypertech has been attempted, but usually Siberian saved him. And let's face it, tinker hypertech was what took him down towards the end. The PRT suits aren't earth-normal tech. Jack could probably tell when she's using her power, and what she's doing with it (directing bugs, feeling their feedback, being more aware of her surroundings), but it doesn't make it any easier to tell that she's going to entirely mundanely pull the trigger of her gun, or where she's entirely mundanely aiming. Thing is, Taylor's power is worrying, mostly because of Wildbow's writing. I'm pretty sure Wildbow would make more-or-less any power terrifying if pushed. Wasn;t there something in one of the comment threads about him taking something super-innocuous as a power and turning it into a super-powered hitman?
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Oct 16, 2013 22:57
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thespaceinvader posted:Thing is, Taylor's power is worrying, mostly because of Wildbow's writing. I'm pretty sure Wildbow would make more-or-less any power terrifying if pushed. Wasn;t there something in one of the comment threads about him taking something super-innocuous as a power and turning it into a super-powered hitman? Yeah, the power was the ability to make words appear on any surface, which the hitman would use to make his target think that they're losing their minds, writing out parts of their 'suicide note' where only they could see it and similar things, until finally killing them and making it look like a suicide (roughly paraphrased from memory).
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Oct 16, 2013 23:09
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Tinker hypertech wielded by a Tinker that is. He definitely has a lot of insight into all parahumans, whether or not their powers are involved. It's how he managed to keep the S9 a cohesive unit in the first place, he can anticipate all their plans and manipulate them easily.
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Oct 16, 2013 23:09
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Taylor's bug sense basically allowed her to, using bugs, break the world down into distances from herself and between bugs, using these distances it's possible to accurately determine angles, her multitasking abilities allowed her to both gather a hell of a lot of information this way AND process it into something she could understand in real time. She's mo-capping the world in her range of control in real time. She's sensing the world in true 3d, provided she's got enough bugs. She's basically able to copy half of Number Man's power provided she's got the insects.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:05
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I was just thinking about Stephen King's Carrie and how similar Taylor's trigger event is to Carrie's first trigger. It's obviously an homage. TOOT BOOT fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 02:42
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TOOT BOOT posted:I was just thinking about Stephen King's Carrie and how similar Taylor's trigger event is to Carrie's first trigger. That plus she basically said in chapter 1 or 2 that she could have gone all Carrie on the school, but she didn't want to. So she went all Carrie on the city instead.
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Oct 17, 2013 03:25
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Oh christ she's planning to take over the world, maybe every world. The end of the Contessa interlude must have taken place after Taylor wins. Now I have no clue what the hell was going on with Teacher at the end of the Contessa interlude. I'm pretty drat sure the dude in the "viking" armor with Teacher is Lung, and not Satyrical like lots of commenters thought. I'd bet the costumes came from Gliaistig using Eidolon's power to create costumes, the "fantasy" bent the costumes have makes it likely. So how does Teacher have access to Doormaker's portals? Does Taylor make the portal for him, or does she give everyone she takes up after she wins? Could Teacher be honestly attempting to help Taylor by getting Contessa?. NecroMonster fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 05:27
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Doormaker to replace relay bugs, Teacher to give a thinker power to handle it.
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Oct 17, 2013 05:40
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SerSpook posted:Doormaker to replace relay bugs, Teacher to give a thinker power to handle it. Teacher would also allow her to take a form of more long term control of others as well. I'm pretty sure Taylor intends to kill herself after she beats Zion, that's her "anchor" to use Gliasig's term. So just what is Tattletale going to attempt to save Taylor from herself in the end?
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Oct 17, 2013 05:49
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Is it wrong that I'm at the point where I instantly drop what I'm doing to read a new update?
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Oct 17, 2013 06:10
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TOOT BOOT posted:Is it wrong that I'm at the point where I instantly drop what I'm doing to read a new update? They're good enough and short enough that's it's more a case of why you wouldn't do so.
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Oct 17, 2013 07:46
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Looks like she lost all communication ability outside of her new powers. And now she's going on a collecting spree. Makes me think Pokemon. Wild mons never fight as good as trainer mons, especially in team battles
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Oct 17, 2013 08:42
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I guess the PRT is going to have to update their master rating of Taylor now.
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Oct 17, 2013 08:56
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NecroMonster posted:
She'll bring Dinah.
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Oct 17, 2013 11:56
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Lord_Pigeonbane posted:This wasn't recent, but why was Taylor able to shoot Jack when they were at the school? Well, they've mentioned that when two clairvoyants fight, their powers cancel out, so it might be a similar, though lesser effect because their shard-related powers don't perfectly align. Or maybe Jack was just loving with her because he knew the mesh would catch the bullet.
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Oct 17, 2013 14:24
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At what point does this series go from typical superhero fare to  ? I've been trying to get a friend to read it, and I know that by the Leviathan fight (chapter 8) I was totally hooked. I just can't remember where my particular point of no return was.
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Oct 17, 2013 14:52
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I think it was Bakuda for me, when Wildbow really showed that no, (s)he wasn't going to pull any punches on the characters.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:24
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Mr. Fowl posted:Well, they've mentioned that when two clairvoyants fight, their powers cancel out, so it might be a similar, though lesser effect because their shard-related powers don't perfectly align. Or maybe Jack was just loving with her because he knew the mesh would catch the bullet. That's a shame. If their powers didn't cancel each other out, a Contessa vs. Jack Slash fight would have been awesome.
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Oct 17, 2013 18:34
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Most Thinker powers cancel each other out, but Contessa can ask hypothetical questions with hers, which means that she can use hers even against a Thinker so long as she can give it enough (and good enough) information. Jack probably doesn't even know about his own Thinker power, though, so he'd get stomped. Really, really hard.
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Oct 17, 2013 19:18
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berenzen posted:I think it was Bakuda for me, when Wildbow really showed that no, (s)he wasn't going to pull any punches on the characters. Yeah, Bakuda is the first time the series really shows it's teeth, but it's sneaky because Bakuda is "crazy" so you don't assume that anything like this is the norm. A few arcs later Leviathan happens and you realize just what the stakes actually are and have been this whole time. That's the moment that well and truly reveals Lisa's "cowboys and indians" explanation for the truth it is. Then the Nine show up.
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Oct 17, 2013 19:23
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Mr. Fowl posted:Well, they've mentioned that when two clairvoyants fight, their powers cancel out, so it might be a similar, though lesser effect because their shard-related powers don't perfectly align. Or maybe Jack was just loving with her because he knew the mesh would catch the bullet. Actually, it's more a matter of escalating complexity when Thinker powers clash. The powers have to account for not only what would happen, but what their opponent's counter prediction to their own predicted actions until all of them need to lie down to have a headache. Jack's is easier in a sense. He just reads intent and targets. The external consequences can go burn.
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Oct 17, 2013 23:50
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New Update! About the end.. Oh, no. No, no, no. Not Dragon. 
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Oct 19, 2013 05:16
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Yeah. I kind of feel like vomiting after reading this chapter. Holy poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:34
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Sounds like Weaver is losing her mind. Also, I'm completely confused about the Teacher portion of the chapter. What was he up to?
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Oct 19, 2013 05:42
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TOOT BOOT posted:Sounds like Weaver is losing her mind. He was doing a ton of stuff, all sorts of plans. The two most obvious things he was doing is making those dimensional key things, and costumes.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:46
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30.3 talk So now Weaver is a one armed mute covered in a hexagon mantle of portals surrounded by a gigantic cloud of insects who entirely consume anyone who enters AND unlimited distance of mind control and omniscience. I thought Glaistig was scary, but now she seems like a Disney villain in comparison to the new Weaver.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:52
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Yeah, this chapter is showing Taylor spiralling hard out of control, her taken to the logical extreme. Which is why I think that her anchor is almost certainly going to be her father. Tattletale will find him, or his corpse, and end up showing him to Taylor, to try and pull her back into the real world.
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Oct 19, 2013 05:54
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