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etalian posted:The old American style big lawn for extra commuting time trade-off? It's a personal preference of course, but the decision to select space in the suburbs at the cost of horrendous daily car journeys truly baffles me. I'd always, always want to remain central for a given price level, even if that implied raising a family in an apartment. Local parks are a perfectly suitable substitute for a yard... And someone else does all the work.
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Oct 20, 2013 20:24
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Lexicon posted:It's a personal preference of course, but the decision to select space in the suburbs at the cost of horrendous daily car journeys truly baffles me. I'd always, always want to remain central for a given price level, even if that implied raising a family in an apartment. Local parks are a perfectly suitable substitute for a yard... And someone else does all the work. Having your own private outdoor space is nice. Having the freedom to extend your property if you want more space without moving is nice. Living in a quiet area is nice. Never being able to hear anything your neighbours are doing and being able to do more or less whatever you want in your own home without having to worry about disturbing the neighbours is nice. I couldn't stomach being much more than 30 minutes out of town, but a 15-30 minute drive each way is pretty tolerable.
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Oct 20, 2013 20:42
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LemonDrizzle posted:$THING is nice Yes, undoubtedly so. All goes without saying really. It's the tradeoff I don't get... many, many people in the Vancouver area (and Toronto too, by the sounds of things) have a 1-1.5 hr drive each way in godawful traffic every goddamn day. That is the price of space for them. I would never pay this price - I'd move or even emigrate first. But many do pay it, and so be it.
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Oct 20, 2013 20:48
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Yeah, I technically don't even live in the GVA, and a LOT of people that live here work in Vancouver. It would drive me completely insane. Even if you took the West Coast Express every day it still takes like an hour and a half each way just to get to Waterfront, and driving in rush hour would be even longer. The fiancee of a friend works in Vancouver right now (he's in construction so he just goes where they've got a job, thankfully for him he doesn't always work in Van) and he basically leaves at 6am and gets back at almost 7pm most nights.
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Oct 20, 2013 21:17
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That's crazy. I've known a few people who drive into downtown from Abbotsford daily. Soul destroying.
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Oct 20, 2013 21:37
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I can't imagine living beyond walking distance to my work and most friends/activities, or at most a 10-15 min drive. North America is the dumbest continent.
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Oct 20, 2013 23:34
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Baronjutter posted:I can't imagine living beyond walking distance to my work and most friends/activities, or at most a 10-15 min drive. North America is the dumbest continent. Increasingly, it seems other people can't either, which is why otherwise decent houses in good locations are now considered knock-downs. Part of the reason decently-located, reasonably sized houses are so hard to find for a good price is because they're being bought and torn down to make way for a million-dollar-plus (comparative) monstrosity.
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Oct 20, 2013 23:40
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PT6A posted:Increasingly, it seems other people can't either, which is why otherwise decent houses in good locations are now considered knock-downs. Part of the reason decently-located, reasonably sized houses are so hard to find for a good price is because they're being bought and torn down to make way for a million-dollar-plus (comparative) monstrosity. I should take pictures of all the monster houses that keep getting built in the neighbourhood of Richmond I drive through regularly. Every house is exactly 1 meter smaller than the land it sits on. They *all* have brick and iron fences in front with electric gates across the driveway. And by "driveway" I mean the front yard that's been entirely bricked over and provides enough space to park three SUVs, which doesn't matter because the house also has a three car garage. Aside from the facade, they are all exactly the same cookie-cutter house. There's one spot that has three within visual distance of each other, and a block down there's two across the street from each other. Half of them are overgrown, in disrepair and never lit because nobody lives there.
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Oct 21, 2013 01:09
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Lexicon posted:That's crazy. I've known a few people who drive into downtown from Abbotsford daily. Soul destroying.
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Oct 21, 2013 01:38
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man thats gross posted:Can someone here explain what, if anything, I'm missing here? I'm making a few assumptions about your financial health but if you can find what you want for 400k and, it would cost upwards of 2k power month to rent, then I think you should buy a home. I keep telling my SO that my long term goal for us is not to keep renting a tiny aspirational box in Vancouver. It's just that I refuse to shackle myself to a debt that would significantly diminish my quality of life. To whit, I'm currently posting this reply from a seaside room in a colonial era luxury hotel in a tropical se Asian country. They have a loving cocktail hour here with an open bar and the bell boy wears a pith helmet. I keep asking myself, why on earth would I want to pay London re prices for homes in what amounts to a backwater of parochial greedy idiots? Especially if it means I'd have to think twice about taking holidays like this? Vancouverites think they're living out a sophisticated sex and the city metropolitan life style and somehow this justifies selling themselves out to a life of debt slavery. Torontonians seem to have caught on to this trope as well. While Toronto is a much better city, I'll be hosed before anyone could convince me it is worth paying London re prices to live there. I hate living in a tiny 1 br apt in the main st. area of Vancouver in a building full of snobby yuppie idiots. These people have no idea what's in store for them if Canada starts to experience some economic turbulence in the very near future. This experience galvanizes my resolve not to participate in this bullshit market. There's a great story explaining what this year's economics Nobel prize cowinners won for. it's very relevant to any discussion about real estate markets. http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21588059-nobel-prize-economics-reveals-how-little-we-know-about-behaviour Now couple that with the potential magnitude of debt/risk you think you can take on and ask yourself if "pride of ownership" is worth it.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:26
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I sometimes think about what it might be like to buy a huge gently caress off house in the Fraser Valley. Then I realize my neighbors would be conservative Christian white trash motherfuckers and I snap out of it.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:28
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This post will infuriate great swaths of Vancouverites, including some in this thread perhaps, but by god do I agree with it wholeheartedly. Cultural Imperial posted:a backwater of parochial greedy idiots  best line.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:58
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As a born and raised Vancouverite who is currently looking at job listings everywhere else in the world because gently caress This Economy, I can't say I feel like defending this loving city much right now.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:59
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Cultural Imperial posted:I sometimes think about what it might be like to buy a huge gently caress off house in the Fraser Valley. Then I realize my neighbors would be conservative Christian white trash motherfuckers and I snap out of it. This is why my goal is to buy 150-200 acres of land elsewhere in BC, as far from civilization as I can get while still having an internet connection of reasonable quality. Unfortunately, until the market in Vancouver crashes and burns it is going to continue driving up prices everywhere in the province as it has been for over a decade. It's a waiting game, and as long as the economy in rural BC continues to go down the shitter (driving every youth of above-a-rock level intelligence to the lower mainland to seek employment), it's not a game I see myself winning. Vast swathes of this province are draining into the GVRD right now, clamoring for the opportunity to work at a loving Starbucks in order to survive. Rime fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 22:09
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Vancouver is totally better than Toronto but gently caress both cities' housing markets right now, completely.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:17
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Rime posted:This is why my goal is to buy 150-200 acres of land elsewhere in BC, as far from civilization as I can get while still having an internet connection of reasonable quality. Unfortunately, until the market in Vancouver crashes and burns it is going to continue driving up prices everywhere in the province as it has been for over a decade. Well once the bubble crashes, who's looking forward to owning a reasonably priced house or apartment in Vancouver? I wonder if it would be like the US bubble where areas with insane amounts of speculation saw 60%-70% decrease in values especially for condos.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:18
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Rime posted:Vast swathes of this province are draining into the GVRD right now, clamoring for the opportunity to work at a loving Starbucks in order to survive. I believe you, but why the gently caress would you come to the lower mainland from outside for employment reasons? It's hardly an economic powerhouse of any significance. Why not head to the Peace River region or Northern Alberta where there is an unbelievable demand for workers of all kinds, including unskilled?
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Oct 21, 2013 22:19
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Unskilled labor such as sucking angry oil worker dicks? On another note the RBC has released their September housing report: http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/canadian-housing-forecast.html etalian fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 22:25
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etalian posted:Unskilled labor such as sucking angry oil worker dicks? I have friends in the region, and I can confirm fairly confidently that oil worker fellatio is not the only source of unskilled employment.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:29
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My friend's off to become a waitress or bartender or something in some lovely oil town because you can end up making some pretty insane money and she really knows how to handle "resource worker types". Had a friend get back from somewhere up north in BC like... working in a whitespot I think, and the dude was making about $30 an hour after factoring in tips, which is like twice what I can make in Victoria. So it's not just sucking resource worker dicks, it's serving them drinks too!
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Oct 21, 2013 23:31
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I love the RBC affordability graphs for home ownership since they show Toronto and Vancouver have worse affordability than the oil boom town of Calgary.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:16
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To be fair, when you can just keep slapping up POS woodframes in endless subdivisions radiating out from the city center for hundreds of miles, you drive the cost to purchase one very low. American style, if you will.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:20
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Cultural Imperial posted:I sometimes think about what it might be like to buy a huge gently caress off house in the Fraser Valley. Then I realize my neighbors would be conservative Christian white trash motherfuckers and I snap out of it. Rime posted:This is why my goal is to buy 150-200 acres of land elsewhere in BC, as far from civilization as I can get while still having an internet connection of reasonable quality. Unfortunately, until the market in Vancouver crashes and burns it is going to continue driving up prices everywhere in the province as it has been for over a decade. Oh hey I saw you guys' house on Vancouver Price Drop. http://sothebysrealty.ca/en/property/british-columbia/fraser-valley/abbotsford/19103 Reduced from like $8m. It looked like a nice place but I have no idea what the neighbourhood is like. Hopefully there's enough land for me to zero in my rifle without having to deal with the neighbours?
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Oct 22, 2013 01:13
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This infographic is lol http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/44xqhigrsw2e0tjw/images/1-a46f169d1a.jpg
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Oct 22, 2013 01:17
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HookShot posted:Vancouver is totally better than Toronto but gently caress both cities' housing markets right now, completely. Why is vancouver better?
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Oct 22, 2013 01:18
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Cultural Imperial posted:Why is vancouver better? Because *subjective regionalist bullshit we'll argue about for pages because  *
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Oct 22, 2013 01:19
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Isn't Toronto really cold?
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Oct 22, 2013 01:20
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Lexicon posted:This post will infuriate great swaths of Vancouverites, including some in this thread perhaps, but by god do I agree with it wholeheartedly. I grew up in third world poo poo holes. People in these countries lived in squalor and had pathetic life expectancy. However there was one common trait between all of the citizens in different third world poo poo holes. They were intensely patriotic. No matter how brutally oppressed they were by their government.
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Oct 22, 2013 01:24
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Cultural Imperial posted:This infographic is lol It's a nice infographic especially since it uses the assumption of a 35% down payment for the more expensive areas.
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Oct 22, 2013 01:25
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Baronjutter posted:Because *subjective regionalist bullshit we'll argue about for pages because And I think this is a huge reason market players manage to convince themselves prices will never ever revert to the mean.
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Oct 22, 2013 01:26
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Cultural Imperial posted:I grew up in third world poo poo holes. People in these countries lived in squalor and had pathetic life expectancy. However there was one common trait between all of the citizens in different third world poo poo holes. They were intensely patriotic. Did some of them even think they were living in the best place on earth? Or centre of the universe?
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Oct 22, 2013 01:26
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Rime posted:To be fair, when you can just keep slapping up POS woodframes in endless subdivisions radiating out from the city center for hundreds of miles, you drive the cost to purchase one very low. American style, if you will. e: Here's a sickening .gif: 
unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 01:30
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Cultural Imperial posted:I'm making a few assumptions about your financial health but if you can find what you want for 400k and, it would cost upwards of 2k power month to rent, then I think you should buy a home. We've saved over $80,000 in the past 5-6 years, we own no vehicles and have no plans to, we've spent a grand total of $0.31 in credit card interest in the past year, we've slashed most of our spending nearly in half, and I have less than $2K student debt at a low interest rate that should be gone by the end of the year. My wife essentially has a job for life barring the complete annihilation of the GTA, and while I don't have that kind of certainty, I'm just as comfortable sitting behind a desk staring at spreadsheets as I am busting my rear end so hard I lose five pounds in an afternoon. Cultural Imperial posted:I keep telling my SO that my long term goal for us is not to keep renting a tiny aspirational box in Vancouver. It's just that I refuse to shackle myself to a debt that would significantly diminish my quality of life. Maybe some day I'll be successful enough that my wife can give up a "sure thing" and I can work from hotel rooms anywhere in the world spending pennies on the dollar thanks to the joys of geoarbitrage, but for now, we're stuck here, and any financial boon that would allow us to escape would also allow us to not give a poo poo if we're $50K in the hole on a home we no longer want or need. Cultural Imperial posted:Vancouverites think they're living out a sophisticated sex and the city metropolitan life style and somehow this justifies selling themselves out to a life of debt slavery. I don't think I'm doing anything more than trying to live in a home larger than 700 sq ft. Cultural Imperial posted:I hate living in a tiny 1 br apt in the main st. area of Vancouver in a building full of snobby yuppie idiots. These people have no idea what's in store for them if Canada starts to experience some economic turbulence in the very near future. This experience galvanizes my resolve not to participate in this bullshit market. It would be great if opting out were that easy for us, but as long as we live and work here, we're participating. And if my options are basically $31,000 a year to rent or another $3,000 on top of that to buy, well I'm having a hard time picking the former, in spite of all the risks inherent to the latter. Cultural Imperial posted:There's a great story explaining what this year's economics Nobel prize cowinners won for. it's very relevant to any discussion about real estate markets. I won't deny that there is some sentiment behind my reasoning, but from a purely financial standpoint, I'm just not seeing it. A return to the mean in Toronto would basically turn a $400K property into a $340K property overnight. If the hammer falls in the next couple of years and we are forced to sell for some reason, yes, we'd be pretty well and truly hosed. Of course, if we sit around dealing with rentals for the next 10 years and the market remains retarded, we'll be $120K behind where we should have been, and we'll still be waiting around for the burst bubble that is as reportedly inevitable yet always-absent as a nuclear Iran. I mean, Christ, what the hell kind of hollow victory would it be to buy "at the right time" in our god drat forties or fifties? I feel like a loving sucker for trying to buy-in at this point, but it's been a seller's market for nearly a god drat decade, and I'm not going to live forever.
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Oct 22, 2013 02:22
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Baronjutter posted:Because *subjective regionalist bullshit we'll argue about for pages because Exactly this. Also it snows less. That house in Abbotsford has been on the market for over 5 years. IIRC it was originally listed for 15 million. I wouldn't call it in a "neighborhood", it's in a part of Abbotsford that has a lot of farms, so it is definitely pretty private. In the summer I'm guessing you get to be serenaded by the blueberry cannons, which kind of sucks, but at least you can join the shitfights in the letters section of the local paper that happen every year between people who are pro and anti blueberry cannons! On the bright side your neighbours are probably Sikh and not Christian, since they're the ones who have been buying a lot of the farmland in Abbotsford in recent years. On the downside, you still live in Abbotsford.
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Oct 22, 2013 02:59
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What the gently caress is a blueberry cannon? I googled it and still don't understand.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:11
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Throatwarbler posted:What the gently caress is a blueberry cannon? I googled it and still don't understand. Basically a loud annoying cannon thing intended to scare off birds from berry farms. So you have annoying thing going off a few times each hour.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:12
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Man that's gross, I think it's misunderstood that this thread is purely against home ownership. The majority of Bears in this thread are against financial profligacy. For the majority of Canadians in Vancouver and other overinflated markets, it does not make sense to own a home if your income is the median in that market. The second problem is that the majority of Canadians see nothing wrong with spending too much money on housing. Now that is loving perverse. You've shared with us a lot of information about your requirements and personal financial situation and it sounds like you can afford what you want and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:12
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Throatwarbler posted:What the gently caress is a blueberry cannon? I googled it and still don't understand. It's basically an air cannon that they put on blueberry farms to scare the birds away. They shoot once every fifteen minutes or so, bigger farms will have more than one cannon. The people who live in the areas where they exist but don't have blueberry farms themselves spend the whole summer writing letters to the paper complaining about "MAH PROPERTY VALUES" and "THEY'RE GIVING US CANCER" or just the simple "they're annoying!" which is probably a valid reason but what did you expect buying a place near a whole bunch of farms? If you didn't want farm noises, buy in the city part of Abbotsford.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:14
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etalian posted:It's a nice infographic especially since it uses the assumption of a 35% down payment for the more expensive areas. Actually the thing I noticed was it knew exactly that 34.7% of the population makes at least $66,132. However what percentage makes at least $171,684... i dunno less than 32% or something.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:31
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HookShot posted:It's basically an air cannon that they put on blueberry farms to scare the birds away. They shoot once every fifteen minutes or so, bigger farms will have more than one cannon. Is that in the special "high density" area of Abbotsford?
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Oct 22, 2013 03:35
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