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IIRC Butcher said in an interview that Codex Alera was the product of an internet forum argument over whether or not a skilled writer to write a good book on a lame premise. The other guy bet Jim he couldn't write a book that way and Jim took the bet. The guy chose "a cross between the lost Roman legion and Pokemon".
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Oct 12, 2013 02:00
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:IIRC Butcher said in an interview that Codex Alera was the product of an internet forum argument over whether or not a skilled writer to write a good book on a lame premise. The other guy bet Jim he couldn't write a book that way and Jim took the bet. The guy chose "a cross between the lost Roman legion and Pokemon". I believe the whole thing was Jim saying "actually, I need two lame premises".
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Oct 12, 2013 02:49
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Of course, the contest was rigged from the start. What's lame about Pokemon??? 
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Oct 12, 2013 03:30
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Silento posted:Of course, the contest was rigged from the start. What's lame about Pokemon??? It wasn't really about lame ideas. It was meant to be cliche ideas. Ones that have been done to death. Pokemon got a ton of clones, and the lost roman legion was apparently done a lot as well
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Oct 12, 2013 04:31
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There's a YouTube link of Butcher telling that story in the second post of the tread.
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Oct 12, 2013 05:44
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I just finished reading Eliott James' Charming which was a pretty strong urban fantasy debut - The main character is from a long line of essentially monster-hunters that are part of an order of knights that was geased/cursed for them and their descendants to keep the existence of the supernatural a secret, and to kill anything that might compromise that secrecy. Unfortunately, his mother was bitten by a werewolf when she was pregnant, and she gave birth and died from her first transformation on the full moon, which is extremely traumatic and often fatal. Since normally werewolves can't have kids, as the whole transforms-into-a-wolf-on-the-full-moon bit for the child and/or the parent tends to result in fatal complications for both mother and child, nobody knew what would happen with him as they raised him. However, despite his mother he was apparently normal, and raised in the same order of knights under close supervision - until he got sick from food poisoning in his twenties which apparently kicked the whole 'werewolf' thing into gear, and had his order try to execute him for being an abomination and a threat to the whole secret, leading him to run off and hide his identity, moving from place to place as they constantly hunt him down. However, he still inherited the whole curse bit, which is incompatible with the werewolf bit, so he isn't entirely a werewolf and doesn't transform on the full moon, though he still has their traits. It was actually pretty good for an urban fantasy debut, and despite some forgivable flaws considering it's a debut, I'm interested in seeing where it will go next.
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Oct 12, 2013 07:28
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edit: this doesn't even need to be here.
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Oct 12, 2013 07:40
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Wolpertinger posted:I just finished reading Eliott James' Charming which was a pretty strong urban fantasy debut - The main character is from a long line of essentially monster-hunters that are part of an order of knights that was geased/cursed for them and their descendants to keep the existence of the supernatural a secret, and to kill anything that might compromise that secrecy. Unfortunately, his mother was bitten by a werewolf when she was pregnant, and she gave birth and died from her first transformation on the full moon, which is extremely traumatic and often fatal. Unless the book improves massively as you go, I have to disagree. The thing reads like a book written in/ for a creative writing class. The protagonist is so clichéd. The story hits every Urban fantasy cliche in the first 50 pages and not in a good way.
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Oct 13, 2013 12:11
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torgeaux posted:Unless the book improves massively as you go, I have to disagree. The thing reads like a book written in/ for a creative writing class. The protagonist is so clichéd. The story hits every Urban fantasy cliche in the first 50 pages and not in a good way. You say in the Dresden Files thread, having read Storm Front and Fool Moon. I was rolling my eyes a bit in the beginning but I liked it more than many debuts despite the cliche bits since it is just a first book. Then again, i'm not really looking for high class literature with my urban fantasy.  . And maybe I've ran into a lot worse urban fantasy than you, but the protagonist doesn't really seem that cliche considering he's not a private investigator or detective or finder or anything of the sort - he's just a drifter that knows no one in there area and as such doesn't have any old connections or friends to call upon, does not have a wisecracking magical sidekick/familiar of some sort.. I dunno, maybe I'm just not seeing it. 
Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 13, 2013 12:18
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Finished Cursor's Fury and all around pretty decent. The romantic plots are going to kill me though. I was pretty sure from the first third of book 1 on that Tavi is the Princeps son. Now I'm positive.
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Oct 14, 2013 15:20
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When in the series are you explicitly told who Tavi's father is? I remember who it is but forget when it's revealed.
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Oct 14, 2013 16:40
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Grundulum posted:When in the series are you explicitly told who Tavi's father is? I remember who it is but forget when it's revealed. Book 4 at the end.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:24
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Wolpertinger posted:You say in the Dresden Files thread, having read Storm Front and Fool Moon. I was rolling my eyes a bit in the beginning but I liked it more than many debuts despite the cliche bits since it is just a first book. Then again, i'm not really looking for high class literature with my urban fantasy. Yeah, maybe the second book will be readable, but this one isn't. Part of secret society that polices the magic world? Check. On the outs with said society, who hunt him now? Check. Faster, stronger, better, super trained with weapons, great looking, practically invulnerable? Check. BUT...the first person he meets can somehow, somehow, penetrate his protection! It's shocking!! Oh, and love interest with extremely hot woman, literally the first person introduced in the book after the protagonist? Check. But, she's seeing someone else? Who hates our protagonist? Check, check, check. torgeaux fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 01:03
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torgeaux posted:Yeah, maybe the second book will be readable, but this one isn't. quote:Oh, and love interest with extremely hot woman, literally the first person introduced in the book after the protagonist? Check. But, she's seeing someone else? Who hates our protagonist? Check, check, check. It's not a perfect book by any means, it was just an enjoyable enough ride and I wanted to just throw it out there - I've read a lot of worse debuts that ended up being the start of a fun series (like Dresden Files :P). Not everything can be a Rivers of London. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 03:55
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torgeaux posted:Faster, stronger, better, super trained with weapons, great looking, practically invulnerable? Check. Dresden is pretty much exactly the opposite of what you just described. Literally the opposite in every single thing you named. Although he does indeed run fast (or at least can run quite a long time), since that's the one thing he does train. quote:BUT...the first person he meets can somehow, somehow, penetrate his protection! It's shocking!! Oh, and love interest with extremely hot woman, literally the first person introduced in the book after the protagonist? Check. But, she's seeing someone else? Who hates our protagonist? Check, check, check. Uh, it's pretty much a cliche to say so, but read on, it's far, far more complex than you think it is. Same with the situation with Morgan or the White Council.
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Oct 16, 2013 10:14
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Decius posted:Dresden is pretty much exactly the opposite of what you just described. Literally the opposite in every single thing you named. Although he does indeed run fast (or at least can run quite a long time), since that's the one thing he does train. You know we're not talking about Dresden' right? As for invulnerable, I was referring to the, "I can't be charmed/mind controlled/mind read" but somehow she seems to do so anyway!," which is a huge cliche.
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Oct 16, 2013 11:06
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torgeaux posted:You know we're not talking about Dresden' right? Oh, sorry, didn't realise that, no.  Explains why it seemed incredibly odd to describe him this way. Decius fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 12:41
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The slightly annoying thing about Alera and Tavi is that his journey is explicitly spelled out in the titles of books 2+. It's a logical progression, but I came to the series just after they'd all been finished up and bought them all in a single go. I had no idea what the titles meant before I read the series, but by the time I was starting book 2 on my Kindle, seeing the other titles there, waiting, gave me a pretty good idea of what was up.
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Oct 16, 2013 18:02
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Mortanis posted:The slightly annoying thing about Alera and Tavi is that his journey is explicitly spelled out in the titles of books 2+. It's a logical progression, but I came to the series just after they'd all been finished up and bought them all in a single go. I had no idea what the titles meant before I read the series, but by the time I was starting book 2 on my Kindle, seeing the other titles there, waiting, gave me a pretty good idea of what was up. In retrospect, I can see how that would be annoying. Reading them as they were released though it wasn't really that obvious until you got past the first 3-4 books and you found out who his father was anyway. Then it really didn't matter that much.
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Oct 16, 2013 18:17
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Decius posted:Oh, sorry, didn't realise that, no. Yeah, if I read that discussion and thought it was about Dresden, I'd have to conclude the reader was drunk.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:14
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Anyone else watch the Fan-movie they sent out on the Dresden Files mailing list? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tFlsqnpIjQ It takes place sometime between Proven Guilty and White Night. I've only had the chance to watch part of it but it's not half bad though the reverbs from the crummy recording equipment throws it off a bit, well that and the actress playing Molly looks older than Harry's actor does.. but the actress playing Murphy does a good job with the character.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:45
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I recently got into these books and yeah, it's a poo poo ton more fun than it really should be. Do the quality of the books drop later on at all?
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Oct 16, 2013 23:46
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Lyer posted:I recently got into these books and yeah, it's a poo poo ton more fun than it really should be. Do the quality of the books drop later on at all? Sort of. The quality of writing improves but Butchers seems to be stuck one-upping the bad guys with every book and having to increase Dresden's capabilities to match them. Its the same trap the Malazan books fell into. I call it the Saturday-morning cartoon syndrome.
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Oct 16, 2013 23:54
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Lyer posted:I recently got into these books and yeah, it's a poo poo ton more fun than it really should be. Do the quality of the books drop later on at all? They actually get better as Butcher becomes a better writer and the characters continue to develop with multi-book plot lines coming together for some epic scenes. The "case-book" formula has shifted somewhat in the last couple books (which isn't a bad thing) since Harry's still dealing with the repercussions/fallout from Changes but that same quirky charm and "fun" factor is still there.
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Oct 17, 2013 00:00
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:Anyone else watch the Fan-movie they sent out on the Dresden Files mailing list? I thought it was well done, especially for a fan film.
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Oct 17, 2013 22:04
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Finally read all 112 pages of this thread (Took me like 4 days). My girlfriend got me to read Dresden earlier this year and cackled evilly at the tortures Changes put me through. It's a damned shame the December 3rd date for Skin Game was wrong - I need more Dresden, and December 3rd is 2 days after my birthday. Woulda been nice.
BrooklynBruiser fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 06:15
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Lyer posted:I recently got into these books and yeah, it's a poo poo ton more fun than it really should be. Do the quality of the books drop later on at all? I'd say it depends on what quality you're looking for. In terms of overarching plotlines, characterization, and world building, they get better. In terms of the mysteries, they get considerably worse. The first half of the series or so, there was a satisfying "A Ha" moment around the climax. I figured out the mystery in the last book a couple hundred pages faster than Harry.
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Oct 18, 2013 08:32
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I just started a re-read. I still really like Storm Front, but man is it obvious that it was Butcher's first book.
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Oct 21, 2013 18:52
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Just started book five and I've really enjoyed the series thus far. Hard to imagine the whole series getting wrapped up in the next two books, especially considering how narrow the scope of the last two had been.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:05
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Just started book five and I've really enjoyed the series thus far. Hard to imagine the whole series getting wrapped up in the next two books, especially considering how narrow the scope of the last two had been.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:27
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Anyone else reading the Descent series by SM Reine? Sword wielding exorcist annoying demons & angels alike, picked up the first three books for free and the rest are under £3 per book so my money pinching brain took over.... anything to keep my brain going on nightshift.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:44
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I'm rereading the series (well, relistening) and man it's amazing how much of the story I've forgotten, since Cold Days is the only book really fresh in my mind.
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Oct 22, 2013 18:06
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Grundulum posted:I'm not sure if you're talking about the Dresden Files or some other series. There are 14 (15?) Dresden books already, with something like 7 more planned. I almost think he's talking about Alera, but IIRC things got pretty huge in scope (though the actual amount of fucks I gave about what I was reading rapidly decreased as the series went on and it eventually became a matter of just finishing the series).
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Oct 22, 2013 18:20
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Wade Wilson posted:I almost think he's talking about Alera, but IIRC things got pretty huge in scope (though the actual amount of fucks I gave about what I was reading rapidly decreased as the series went on and it eventually became a matter of just finishing the series). I felt the same way.
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Oct 22, 2013 20:11
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I was referring to Alera. By scope I meant the focus was left on three major plot points while 5 or so just seemed to exist in the background. Now that those points are being explored I can't see how they can be adequately resolved in the space allotted the final two books without severely condensing the action.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:05
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I was referring to Alera. By scope I meant the focus was left on three major plot points while 5 or so just seemed to exist in the background. Now that those points are being explored I can't see how they can be adequately resolved in the space allotted the final two books without severely condensing the action. Well, the last two books are a good deal larger than the first 4, so there's more room for stuff too.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:17
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Princep's Fury sure isn't. It's ten or so pages shorter than Academ's Fury.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:24
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Princep's Fury sure isn't. It's ten or so pages shorter than Academ's Fury. Huh...guess I'm misremembering then.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:34
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I just finished Fool Moon on my reread - I honestly don't get how people think it's worse than Storm Front.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:26
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BrooklynBruiser posted:I just finished Fool Moon on my reread - I honestly don't get how people think it's worse than Storm Front. My two complaints were the werewolf sex and Dresden's relationship with Murphy. Murphy's reactions to Dresden seemed a bit too extreme for most of the book.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:28
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