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HenessyHero posted:I'll agree to disagee on this point. If I was rating Fenris' design out of 10, I might give him a passing grade overall but certainly not without definite admonishment. I think don't his form fits his function very well, that's key. He's a front-line fighter who often looks like he's outweighed by his weapon of choice, while also lacking a bit of threat. Poking a little fun at him, he's an illiterate hobo mercenary squatting in a residence with cobwebs and dead bodies but still wears a brightly colored, stylish hairdo that looks straight out of a teenie bop magazine. He's a freed slave still deeply tied to his past and his tattoos could've conveyed that the irons are still there, or it could have conveyed the harshness of his past, but he's mostly got some viney poo poo. His particular dress/armor sits in a weird middleground where it covers but doesn't protect and probably should have been pushed more in one way or another. Well, as I said, armor-hair-tats, those are the three things I'd change. I really think his hair did him the biggest disservice, though, thinking about it. It was just a very very very poorly chosen hairstyle. It could have easily made him seem much more grizzled (i.e. grizzled at all). I wouldn't do a "cool" hairstyle, or an edgy one, just one with lots of scraggly bits. Bedraggled. I would have taken a passable design and really brought it up a notch. Lotish posted:I'm inclined to agree. I'm not sure any of the other options really work, but if we're going with a character who's powerful because of lyrium ingrained in his skin, I say emphasis that the lyrium also makes him damage resistant and use one of the character designs with much, much more exposed skin so he looks like a barbarian that can get away with it. Fenris is already Jack down to the healing power of protagonist cooter/ding-dong, so they probably didn't want to make it any more obvious. I mean I GUESS he could just have titty straps on top but it'd be a little odd. KittyEmpress posted:With Fenris I always imagined that he would look really cool if he had head tattoos, like the Red Wizard in NWN2: MotB. No hair, but shiny magic lyrium tattoos that go from his head to his toes. It sort of makes sense for them to be elegant since he's admittedly part decorative, but it's something I'd have compromised on for a more meaningful design.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:27
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Pick posted:Fenris is already Jack down to the healing power of protagonist cooter/ding-dong, so they probably didn't want to make it any more obvious. I mean I GUESS he could just have titty straps on top but it'd be a little odd. I would approve of titty strapped Fenris, and it would retroactively make me not despise Jack's design. As for the tattoos, you'd think that the idea of intense magic used to make him that way (which is implied or stated to be nearly unique/really hard to do) would be decorative enough, what with how the Magisters apparently only respect magical skill. Edit: I really specifically don't like his tattoos as are because they make me think of Dalish elves, which is something that Fenris himself is Very Much Not. He has no interest in them, he doesn't even like them!
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Oct 19, 2013 04:31
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See, to me, the tattoos look even more... what's a word that won't get me in trouble here... dainty than the Dalish ones. Dalish tats look like dumb tribal tattoo you'd expect on a jock. Fenris' tattoos look like a print from Joanne Fabrics.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:38
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Pick posted:See, to me, the tattoos look even more... what's a word that won't get me in trouble here... dainty than the Dalish ones. Dalish tats look like dumb tribal tattoo you'd expect on a jock. Fenris' tattoos look like a print from Joanne Fabrics. I thought they looked more like a Tolkien elfstyle knockoff with all the heavy use of the curves and all.
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Oct 19, 2013 04:53
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Sexgun Rasputin posted:
In retrospect I mostly agree with this; mages vs. templars, magic is bad for people in practice but already here, what do you do about it? would've worked better in Tevinter simply because the ones with inborn oppressing power aren't in a uniquely stupid situation there and it would've fallen into more classic story archetypes ("bad mages oppressing weak non-mages"). But that would've actually required having the player character having a serious impact on the setting itself, given that Tevinter is a major power and more importantly maybe the only thing between the Qunari and the rest of Thedas...
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Oct 20, 2013 15:44
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Lightning Knight posted:Well, I don't know, you can't really side with the Templars in their current form because they're too caught up in Chantry politics and positions. The Circles can never be improved so long as the Chantry is in charge. Bioware seems to be getting better with giving entire groups / races a more nuanced characterization, which gives me hope that the Tevinter Imperium won't just be axe-crazy Sith. I can't say the same for plot. Going into DA3, there are a lot of interesting plot threads have yet to be ruined: what really happened with the Golden City, how much of a threat to everyone are the Qunari (including their sleeper agents), the current state of the Tevinter Imperium (how taxed are they by war and decay), what's up with darkspawn (Architect and Corypheus), etc... Unfortunately, Bioware usually goes the lowest common denominator route and they'll violently and haphazardly tie up loose ends.
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Oct 20, 2013 16:37
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ElrondHubbard posted:Bioware seems to be getting better with giving entire groups / races a more nuanced characterization, which gives me hope that the Tevinter Imperium won't just be axe-crazy Sith. I can't say the same for plot. Careful, you have said something positive about Bioware, prepare to be crucified. You mention Qunari sleeper agents, that is the first time I hear of them. What is up with them?
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Oct 20, 2013 17:28
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Torrannor posted:You mention Qunari sleeper agents, that is the first time I hear of them. What is up with them? Anything specific is up for grabs, but Qunari is a term for every follower of the Qun. Humans, Elves, and Dwarves are welcomed into the Qunari religion/empire, and would probably be sent to other nations, like Orlesian bards.
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Oct 20, 2013 17:36
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Schubalts posted:Anything specific is up for grabs, but Qunari is a term for every follower of the Qun. Humans, Elves, and Dwarves are welcomed into the Qunari religion/empire, and would probably be sent to other nations, like Orlesian bards. I don't know if "sleeper agent" is the right word since that usually implies that they don't know they are an agent until activated. In Mark of the Assassin, the whole point of Tallis' mission was that she is trying to get back a list of names of human/elf/dwarf qunari followers who live outside of Par Vollen. It would be a huge blemish on those people's reputations if it was known they followed the Qun- even if they were ex-followers, so she was seeking to protect those people.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:53
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Leelee posted:I don't know if "sleeper agent" is the right word since that usually implies that they don't know they are an agent until activated. In Mark of the Assassin, the whole point of Tallis' mission was that she is trying to get back a list of names of human/elf/dwarf qunari followers who live outside of Par Vollen. It would be a huge blemish on those people's reputations if it was known they followed the Qun- even if they were ex-followers, so she was seeking to protect those people. She was so disingenuous throughout the entirety of that DLC, it's ridiculous. She spends the whole time saying, 'All these innocent people are going to be hurt' when it turns out all those 'innocent people' were spies. I guess she's a spy too, so lying constantly is part of the job description, but still. EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, it's a quite good writing of a spy character. But if Bioware wanted us to some how like or relate to her, which was the impression I got, then they utterly failed in that. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 17:18
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CottonWolf posted:She was so disingenuous throughout the entirety of that DLC, it's ridiculous. She spends the whole time saying, 'All these innocent people are going to be hurt' when it turns out all those 'innocent people' were spies. I guess she's a spy too, so lying constantly is part of the job description, but still. Tallis is just horrible, as a character. The whole DLC is very, very poorly written. The principals of the situation are that Hawke, a landed noble seeking to make her name, has been invited to a garden party by an Orlesian duke who's rich, powerful and a personal friend of the Empress of Orlais, the most powerful country in the world. Tallis, an elven thief and assassin Hawke has never met, proposes that Hawke use this invitation to help Tallis steal a famous jewel from the duke's vault. She won't pay you up front, or offer you any compensation. If you ask Tallis why you'd help her, you literally get Felicia Day giving a goofy 'cutesy', 'hey, it'll be fun'! It's a really poorly constructed situation when you as the writer want to guide the situation such that the player helps Tallis. Hawke benefits not at all from doing so, has only just met Tallis and so has no reason to trust or like her, while the Orlesian duke (who is in fact ostentatiously friendly to Hawke until she's railroaded into betraying him) is a powerful man with connections who could help her if she gets in good with him, and seriously hurt her she ticks him off. Of course you don't get to choose; you can't, for instance, say "hey, Duke Prosper, this elf here is planning to steal from you". If you want to play the DLC at all you're railroaded into following Tallis' plan more or less to the letter, which makes her infuriating: if you don't like her, don't trust her, don't want to do what she says, it doesn't matter, all you can do is acquiesce calmly, acquiesce angrily, or acquiesce sassily.
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Oct 21, 2013 17:58
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Leelee posted:I don't know if "sleeper agent" is the right word since that usually implies that they don't know they are an agent until activated.
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Oct 21, 2013 19:15
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Deleuzionist posted:No, a sleeper agent or a cell is just dormant, waiting for orders or specific time. You're thinking of a Manchurian candidate, a fictional type of a sleeper agent. Ah- thanks for the clarification! God, if one line I loathed in MOTA was..."Why should I help you?" "BECAUSE I GOT YOUR NOSE!!!" Which then the writers thought was so awesome, they made Varric say it again to Cassandra. I hate that line.
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Oct 21, 2013 19:46
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Leelee posted:I don't know if "sleeper agent" is the right word since that usually implies that they don't know they are an agent until activated. In Mark of the Assassin, the whole point of Tallis' mission was that she is trying to get back a list of names of human/elf/dwarf qunari followers who live outside of Par Vollen. It would be a huge blemish on those people's reputations if it was known they followed the Qun- even if they were ex-followers, so she was seeking to protect those people. My recollection of the DLC was hazy at best, so I relied on the  at the Dragon Age wiki: "[Talis] is able to steal a scroll Salit was handing over to Prosper, which contained information on various Qunari sleeper agents throughout Thedas, even those who have left the Qun."I checked youtube and the list doesn't distinguish innocent from guilty Qunari sleepers. Apparently Talis is worried humans would butcher everyone including their families (husbands/wives and kids) because that's evidently what humans do. Android Blues posted:If you want to play the DLC at all you're railroaded into following Tallis' plan more or less to the letter, which makes her infuriating: if you don't like her, don't trust her, don't want to do what she says, it doesn't matter, all you can do is acquiesce calmly, acquiesce angrily, or acquiesce sassily. That was the worst part. When she made the big reveal that the list contained undercover Qunari, I immediately looked for the option to take the scroll from her, and there was an option to do so!!! The unfortunate reality set in that I couldn't get off the plot railroad when Hawke demanded the scroll, Talis tossed Hawke a gem, and Hawke stoped caring. ElrondHubbard fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 20:48
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Leelee posted:Ah- thanks for the clarification! This...this is an actual line? I mean, you're not joking?
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Oct 21, 2013 23:58
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The Sharmat posted:This...this is an actual line? I mean, you're not joking? Despair.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:11
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"Question, what happen if you mate with all of the girl?" Ahh, youtube comments 
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Oct 22, 2013 00:39
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So it seems that Jim Stirling has some harsh words for Bioware's "Mature Romances", and I must say that I agree with him. Bioware romances are pretty much a "press X to get the sex" minigame, rather than a meaningful relationship.
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Oct 22, 2013 02:58
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Not exactly a novel assertion but I guess it's nice to see gaming journalism have the balls to say it for once?
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Oct 22, 2013 03:17
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Now someone who isn't an unfunny fat moron say it.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:19
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DrNutt posted:Now someone who isn't an unfunny fat moron say it. His delivery sucks more than a little bit, but it's still an overall positive message and the gaming community could do with more of it so I think we should just take the win.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:29
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Android Blues posted:Tallis is just horrible, as a character. The whole DLC is very, very poorly written. The principals of the situation are that Hawke, a landed noble seeking to make her name, has been invited to a garden party by an Orlesian duke who's rich, powerful and a personal friend of the Empress of Orlais, the most powerful country in the world. Tallis, an elven thief and assassin Hawke has never met, proposes that Hawke use this invitation to help Tallis steal a famous jewel from the duke's vault. She won't pay you up front, or offer you any compensation. If you ask Tallis why you'd help her, you literally get Felicia Day giving a goofy 'cutesy', 'hey, it'll be fun'! DA2 was always absurdist fantasy to me. The only proper way is to play is nihilist jokester Hawke because the world around her is so ridiculous it makes sense she jokes about death and murder as shes covered in blood. This is the only way to play DA2 remotely satisfyingly. I also hated DA:O's setting. So didn't mind what bioware did to it and was able to enjoy myself seeing everything go crazy. Isabella was my femhawke's bro because she knew this was all illusion and we were all cardboard cutouts on a stage, commiting murder and faux drama for forty hours. None of this matters, we are just creatures going through the motions. Almost kafkaesque in execution. AGC.
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Oct 22, 2013 04:04
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God, this is like watching a train wreck and then continuing to watch as it keeps propelling itself into whatever it impacted.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:00
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DA:O was in development for aprox. seven years. DA II was in development for Aprox. one year. The development of DA:Inq should be approaching three years. By my "expert" video game math it should be close to twice as awesome as 2 and Half as awesome as Origins.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:15
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I really dug Salit's design, though. They made him look pretty cool.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:29
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There is a God, and He despises us. It's not just that line, either. That awful deformed face-scan makes Miranda from Mass Effect look like Venus.
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Oct 22, 2013 11:18
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Captain Oblivious posted:Not exactly a novel assertion but I guess it's nice to see gaming journalism have the balls to say it for once? Cara Ellison had an opportunity to do something in her review of those Leisure Suit Larry point and click games a while ago, but fumbled really hard and just ended up going on a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:KINDNESS COINS AND FEDORAS rant instead. It's weird how few people seem to comment on the crappiness of this stuff.
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Oct 22, 2013 11:23
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What's a kindness coin? EDIT: Actually, don't answer that.
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Oct 22, 2013 11:27
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Dan Didio posted:What's a kindness coin? Basically it's the idea that if you're kind to someone - inserting 'kindness coins' - you should expect sex in return. It was made in the context of systems such as those in DA where you give gifts to party members and get nookie sequences, but the actual delivery seemed more intent on just ranting than making any interesting point about the way it's handled in-game.
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Oct 22, 2013 11:47
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Anyone have any opinions on the mobile game coming out? I'm not a fan of card games, which is what this looks like, nor microtransactions since it's free to play. http://www.polygon.com/game/heroes-of-dragon-age/14512
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Oct 22, 2013 14:56
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I seriously don't think there is a single way to make me less interested in a game than to say it's "card based." edit: Seriously, all of the little side games that have been put out for Dragon Age have been abominable. I have no hope of this one being any different, even if I'm trying to be sanguine about Inquisition. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 15:45
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Lotish posted:I seriously don't think there is a single way to make me less interested in a game than to say it's "card based." Especially because they're never actual card games. The cards just represent some other mechanic and basically the google play store is full of lies. Gawdfather posted:DA:O was in development for aprox. seven years. Hopefully the part of DA:O they lose is the combat. Spend 3 years designing good plot, characters and world and then make all the fights "would you like to win? Y/N"
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Oct 22, 2013 15:49
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I think I only played the Mark of the Assassin DLC twice, one with "okay fine let's go along with this" and the second with "why can't I not go along with this?" I've never been a huge fan of Bioware DLC, period, (other than "DLC" like Shale) but MotA was just really annoying and disappointing. Anyway, on the earlier note, Bioware just can't win on romances. You people are as hard to please as Tumblr. "Romances should be less of the plot" (than the 5 minutes top they are in any given playthrough) "but they should be far more deep and sophisticated". Maybe we can hire a Pulitzer winner to write the two deepest, most inspirational and romantic lines in the entire history of the universe, but until then make up your minds.
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Oct 22, 2013 20:34
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Pick posted:Anyway, on the earlier note, Bioware just can't win on romances. You people are as hard to please as Tumblr. "Romances should be less of the plot" (than the 5 minutes top they are in any given playthrough) "but they should be far more deep and sophisticated". Maybe we can hire a Pulitzer winner to write the two deepest, most inspirational and romantic lines in the entire history of the universe, but until then make up your minds. Make a cannon romance that is pre-established. The player characters choices over the game either strengthen their relationship or eventually drive them apart. It allows all of the "romance time" to be focused on a single cohesive script, gives the other character agency in the relationship, and makes it somewhat plot relevant. Hell the romance character could even not be companion allowing people who care to pursue that path and those who don't to set the romance character to "stay at home forever" as they save the world.
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Oct 22, 2013 20:48
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They could experiment with not having them at all, I think that might count as a win.
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Oct 22, 2013 20:48
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Barudak posted:Make a cannon romance that is pre-established. The player characters choices over the game either strengthen their relationship or eventually drive them apart. It allows all of the "romance time" to be focused on a single cohesive script, gives the other character agency in the relationship, and makes it somewhat plot relevant. Only if it is a romance with a guy. All people afraid of the gay can play a female character, while I can bask in my glorious gay romance. If not, then no, thanks. I'd rather have options. Arcsquad12 posted:So it seems that Jim Stirling has some harsh words for Bioware's "Mature Romances", and I must say that I agree with him. Bioware romances are pretty much a "press X to get the sex" minigame, rather than a meaningful relationship. This was poo poo. He criticizes Bioware for using sex as a reward for a minigame that is just better (or worse) softcore porn. But this is just not true. Only in DA:O was the sex ever in any way explicit, in the other games it is a fade to black. He states that you buy sex with gifts, and again only Origins has that system, they abandoned that for DA:2 and never had it in Mass Effect. He complains about sex being empty and not furthering the character or story arcs. But having sex with Morrigan or refusing to have sex with her makes a great deal of difference for both Morrigan's relationship with you and the end of the story. It is not just empty fanservice. Sex with Jack, Zevran or Isabella is also not without consequences, or rather it has a point in their character arcs. And at the end, he mistakes video games for tv shows. They are interactive by default. Placing sex as an endpoint of a relationship is not unreasonable. He makes it out as if you should have very good reason to engage in sex with somebody, ignoring for what childish or selfish reasons people have sex in real life. We don't find it wrong if somebody has a one-night stand with a stranger for sexual gratification, why are video game characters held to a higher standard? Ridiculous. It is a bit unfortunate that the relationships culminate with a one-time sex scene, achievement and all, but it is just a convenient and logical end point. Bioware should have made a Sebastian romance count for the achievement, even though he is celibate, you can find another scene to lock you into a relationship and grant the achievement. But other than that I don't see what is wrong with including two characters cuddling and kissing, and then a fade to black. Especially since nobody forces you to have a relationship at all. The label "mature sex scenes" is of course bullshit advertising, but the issue of sex in Bioware games is not nearly as bad as he makes it out to be.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:18
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Barudak posted:Make a cannon romance that is pre-established. Anyway, I don't think that'd be a good idea. The less pre-defined the protagonist is, the better. The NWN 1 protagonist is pretty much the ultimate RPG protagonist in my mind.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:22
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Dolash posted:They could experiment with not having them at all, I think that might count as a win.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:28
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The "culminates in sex scene" complaint isn't accurate for the Dragon Age games if you view them as stories, though it's easy to feel that way because of the flashy "Achievement Unlocked!" popups. My feeling is that the lynchpin of a traditional romance is unresolved tension and that hasn't happened in a Bioware game since KOTOR. I'm pretty sure every love story that anyone has ever liked has had some element of this, something that stands in the way of the protagonists. In these games you just declare your love for each other and get together, I guess? Even "biologically incompatible" isn't an obstacle if we go by that other franchise. Without that it's not really a romance, just a story that happens to contain sex.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:35
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Mymla posted:Isn't this sort of a thing in the dwarf noble origin? Like, the first thing Gorim says to you is "We're in a relationship, confirm/deny?". I dunno, I think whether or not it's good for a PC to be pre-defined depends on the kind of game Bioware wants to make. For example, it makes sense that there was little pre-definition of the PC of DA:0, while both DA2 and the ME trilogy would've benefited from having their PC be more pre-defined than they ended up being. I mean, I guess maybe it's just how I look at it. I go to a Bioware RPG for a pre-defined plot and story with a bit of meandering in the middle, while I go play something like Skyrim or Fallout if I want to just do whatever and be whatever.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:36
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