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Necroneocon posted:Excellent. I am excited to read the Paradox forum anti-semitism and internet atheism! Should have seen the livestream comments! It was awful.
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Oct 22, 2013 20:40
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Ray and Shirley posted:No changes to decadence that I can see. Azerbaijan Tolerizers/Modernizers versus Azerbaijan royalists/reactionaries. Guessing the first will be about income and research bonuses while the other one is gonna be all about jihad and conversion bonuses.
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Oct 22, 2013 20:54
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Geokinesis posted:Should have seen the livestream comments! It was awful. I was excruciatingly close to preforming a lobotomy on myself. Then I just deployed MooBot and all was well.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:00
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Don't the opposing schools of thought in Islam really hate each other? I'll fully admit I don't know much on the subject but I remember hearing something to that effect in high school when someone asked the instructor why the Middle East was always in conflict.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:03
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Cathars have been confirmed to have female bishops. It's also possible for heresies to become the main religion... 
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Oct 22, 2013 21:25
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Do the DLCs usually integrate into old saves? I'm in the middle of a weird game as an Abyssinian Empire that spans from the Atlantic coast of Africa to Persia in which a member of my dynasty became the Byzantine emperor and thus converted all of his vassals. It would be nice to have some flavor added to Miaphysitism, especially since it has become the largest religion in the world by this point.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:33
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Geokinesis posted:Should have seen the livestream comments! It was awful. I'm surprised, and a little sad, that I didn't wake up to a flood of paradoxchat.txt. Raserys posted:Cathars have been confirmed to have female bishops. It's also possible for heresies to become the main religion... Confirmed primary goal of this DLC: replace the Pope with a Cathar female religious head.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:46
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Mailer posted:I'm surprised, and a little sad, that I didn't wake up to a flood of paradoxchat.txt. Just imagine thousands of comments going 'BIG NOSE JEW DLC 5.99 EXTRA LOL' or 'CAN WE GET JEW KILLING BABIES FOR BLOOD DLC? LOL'
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Oct 22, 2013 21:48
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:Don't the opposing schools of thought in Islam really hate each other? I'll fully admit I don't know much on the subject but I remember hearing something to that effect in high school when someone asked the instructor why the Middle East was always in conflict. Ash'aris at least arose in response to the Mutazilis. They seem to be using the two Traits to portray the conflict of liberal and conservative/fundamentalist strains of Islam. I think the Mutazili/Ash'ari conflict is a rather too specific for that, but it was a Thing. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 21:49
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:Don't the opposing schools of thought in Islam really hate each other? I'll fully admit I don't know much on the subject but I remember hearing something to that effect in high school when someone asked the instructor why the Middle East was always in conflict. I was taught that there were multiple schools in (at least) Sunni thought and that they're compatible-ish but that none of them are terribly opposed to each other.
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Oct 22, 2013 21:51
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:Don't the opposing schools of thought in Islam really hate each other? I'll fully admit I don't know much on the subject but I remember hearing something to that effect in high school when someone asked the instructor why the Middle East was always in conflict. He probably meant Sunni/Shia political divide
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Oct 22, 2013 22:13
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:Don't the opposing schools of thought in Islam really hate each other? I'll fully admit I don't know much on the subject but I remember hearing something to that effect in high school when someone asked the instructor why the Middle East was always in conflict. Disco Infiva posted:He probably meant Sunni/Shia political divide Yeah, that's a different divide. The Mutazili were a school of rationalists, who hybridized ancient Greek philosophy with early Muslim thought. They thrived between the 8th-10th centuries & led Muslim civilization into a golden age. quote:The adherents of the Mu'tazili school are best known for their having asserted that, because of the perfect unity and eternal nature of Allah, the Qur'an must therefore have been created [by man], as it could not be co-eternal with God.[2] From this premise, the Mu'tazili school of Kalam proceeded to posit that the injunctions of God are accessible to rational thought and inquiry: because knowledge is derived from reason, reason is the "final arbiter" in distinguishing right from wrong.[3] It follows, in Mu'tazili reasoning, that "sacred precedent" is not an effective means of determining what is just, as what is obligatory in religion is only obligatory "by virtue of reason." Then the Asharites showed up and argued that the theory of occasionalism, which states that there's no such thing as 'natural law'; every single thing, from the movement of the waves to the lighting of a candle, is caused by the direct intervention of God, and therefore trying to reason or systematize about nature was heretical. (As it would be putting limits on God.) This quickly became the dominant Muslim thought, and despite brave arguments against it (which I'm bringing up mainly so I can namedrop the wonderful Incoherence of the Incoherence), the Mu'tazilis were essentially extinct as a movement before the end of CK2's period. But with the upcoming DLC, maybe it'll go the other way! Which is the sort of thing that sounds very fun to play with. CK2 also models the Sunni/Shia divide - that's been in the game since launch, actually. It's an older divide, and one that lasted into the present day. (The Sunni/Shiite split started out as a succession dispute not long after Mohammed died, and though the original dispute is long-since moot - the Caliphate was toothless for centuries even before Atatürk's reforms finally abolished it - other doctrinal disputes have since arisen to continue the divide.) While I wouldn't say that it's the cause of Middle Eastern conflict, any more than the (closely analogous) Roman Catholic/Orthodox or Catholic/Protestant divides are the cause of conflict in Europe, it is a prominent faultline through which conflict tends to express itself. Raserys posted:Cathars have been confirmed to have female bishops. It's also possible for heresies to become the main religion... yessssssssssss PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 22:36
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Can't wait to tell my bastard son to take the The next patch sounds neat, as well. I hope there will be numerous achievements relating to kinslayin'
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Oct 22, 2013 22:43
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Raserys posted:Cathars have been confirmed to have female bishops. It's also possible for heresies to become the main religion... Any reaction of the people on the Paradox forums about any women with power in CK2? I hope the misogynists are out in force.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:48
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If any of the usual Paradox suspects are reading this (Darkrenown, I'm looking at you!): Has the extremely irritating coat-of-arms-bug for reformed, player-controlled pagans finally been fixed for this next big patch? I've seen it get reported several times on your forums over the past few months, but nothing ever happens. I hate having a dynastic banner that changes every time I load the game! :/
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Oct 22, 2013 22:49
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Torrannor posted:Any reaction of the people on the Paradox forums about any women with power in CK2? I hope the misogynists are out in force. Well, women can already be Queens and some pagan religions let them be Bishop equivalents so I'm assuming that particular ship has sailed.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:56
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Sky Shadowing posted:Dev Diary 1 for Sons of Abraham, focusing on Christians, Muslims, and Jews. this is all i ever wanted (other than the Pope to be playable. Please let this happen.)
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Oct 22, 2013 23:29
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ThomasPaine posted:Excellent! I wonder if we'll have playable theocracies? This is actually all I want out of this. Hopefully they also export the settings for matrilineal marriages as well so they aren't hardcoded.
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Oct 22, 2013 23:55
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At one point they said they wanted everything but the pope to be playable (sorry, Pope fans). I think this has to deal with the Pope being the character/title that a lot of the in game events are tied to, like, the clock or something bizarre. I think it's a hard-coded thing. If they -did- let Theocracies in, though, that'd leave the Pope, Inland Republics, and Landed Mercenary Troops (which the game recognizes as "Theocracies", so maybe even -they'd- be.... naw...) as unplayable for the time being.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:06
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It'd be kinda cool if the EUIV converter put Muslims in the Western tech group if the Mutazili stay in power. Also, the weirdest detail I like is that the Crusade starts are now dynamic and you have to request them from the Pope, since that's one of the few hardcoded in history things in the game. I would like to see non-military holy orders like the Catholic mendicants.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:21
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I hope that this expansion basically reworks Islamic dynasties from the ground up. I don't mind Decadence being a mechanic for muslims, but over time muslims as a whole have been needlessly restricted in terms of modding or personal realm laws (gender laws, etc) compared to other religions. Plus, everything I've learned about the Ottomans makes me hate Open Succession currently. The Beyliks of Anatolia basically practiced a combination of Gavelkind and "the strongest holy warrior attracts the most followers" in terms of succession, not Open Succession. In game terms, the Ottomans were the only kingdom to adopt Open Succession, and that wasn't really a thing until Mehmed II declared what's known as the Fratricide Law in the 1470s, which is 20 years after the game ends. Before that, the Ottomans just were either really lucky in having just one willing heir, or in the case of Bayezid I's inglorious end, a decade-long civil war between his four sons while Timur laughed in the background. Open Succession as it currently works isn't just chronologically inaccurate, but it historically applies to absolutely nobody outside of the Turks, and not even all the time at that.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:35
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Veryslightlymad posted:At one point they said they wanted everything but the pope to be playable (sorry, Pope fans). I think this has to deal with the Pope being the character/title that a lot of the in game events are tied to, like, the clock or something bizarre. I think it's a hard-coded thing. The Pope is critical in so many events that they can't make him playable without redoing a ton of the game. IIRC the Pope position often gets dozens of events/diplomatic requests per game day, we're talking thousands of decisions a year.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:37
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Omnicarus posted:The Pope is critical in so many events that they can't make him playable without redoing a ton of the game. IIRC the Pope position often gets dozens of events/diplomatic requests per game day, we're talking thousands of decisions a year. Yeah, the Pope is hardcoded in a bunch of events because it's assumed to be a title that will always exist, so it's a safe spot to spawn things from.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:57
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I seriously hope that at some point, if not in this next expansion, Paradox adds in the ability for characters to be beatified or canonized later in the game, with mechanics to give the player some ability to sway Church opinion (or force its hand) on the matter. They could do it kind of like Imperial coronations, except all living members of the saint's dynasty get a a "saintly ancestor" trait giving a boost to monthly prestige or piety. I'd just the chance to have a Saint Robert de Bourgogne 
beefart fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 04:08
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SeaTard posted:Yeah, the Pope is hardcoded in a bunch of events because it's assumed to be a title that will always exist, so it's a safe spot to spawn things from.
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Oct 23, 2013 04:33
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Dauntasa posted:Just give them all to some mercenary title or something. Or make a holy order for the old generic pagan religion that nobody has and give all the events to its leader. Oh Jesus (  ), what if they add in a Hellenic Holy Order as an easter egg?
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Oct 23, 2013 04:38
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Hellenic Holy Order is Spartan Praetorian Guard just for history-rage meltdowns.
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Oct 23, 2013 04:39
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Cheated just a little bit (because gently caress you, Aragon, I'm one duchy away from my goal), but I am now the Kingdom of Sardinia. It is 1035, and despite being an island kingdom consisting of Sardinia, Mallorca and Menorca, and Crete, I have the second prettiest borders in the entire game (after Gondar, who have a very nice border with the muslims to the north). Europe is a loving mess because of inheritances (the one downside of random generation? So few characters at the start). I think Shi'a is the predominant branch of Islam, as almost everyone is Shi'a, or a heresy thereof. There's a handful of tiny Sunni states, but the largest got broken up, because of decadence, I think. Come 1066, I think I'll take some pictures so you too can cry at the hideous borders. By the way, how does sending your chaplain to pagan courts work? I keep on doing it, but I got the chaplain to stick around without getting thrown in jail like, three times, and one time I managed to convert the king/duke (down in West Africa, and I think purely by chance), but then he died and now everybody down there is zealous. Edit: I did have a super scary peasant rebellion. They outnumbered me, so I called in my allies, but I could see the armies moving around, but not getting on boats. So, looking at the peasant army, I noticed it was almost all light infantry, so I got some mercs, loaded up my troops hoping that my mixed army could take them down with the power of heavy infantry and poo poo. Nope. I thought I might be able to hit them again, that maybe it was just the dice not rolling my way, but I was losing the second battle too. Then, out of nowhere, 6000 angry Bavarians came down to stomp on some peasants for me, right at the last second. catlord fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 08:19
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Islam tends to snowball for Sunni or Shia, just because they share some holy sites and will be at holy war with each other more or less continuously. Shia can't be permanently wiped out because of the Shia Caliphate invasion event, and Sunni can't be wiped out until late in the game, because the Seljuks and Timurids are always Sunni, even if the pre-existing Sunni nations are doing poorly. catlord posted:By the way, how does sending your chaplain to pagan courts work? I keep on doing it, but I got the chaplain to stick around without getting thrown in jail like, three times, and one time I managed to convert the king/duke (down in West Africa, and I think purely by chance), but then he died and now everybody down there is zealous. No, it's just like that. If you are serious about converting them, you'll need to not only try and try again with tour chaplain, but also help with any holy wars or revolts and possibly blow up any heathen heirs. It's a lot of effort for relatively limited benefit. I only ever do it to keep Norse or Tengri from reforming, or to calm down especially annoying raiders. (Converting Hungary helps with Tengri, and converting any one of the three main Scandinavian nations basically guarantees Norse won't reform.) It's usually much easier to convert heathens with holy warring. Either you conquer them and install your own guys, or they convert to avoid being conquered.
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Oct 23, 2013 09:07
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So I have a question when educating children. The person you pick as guardian will give them their education trait as I understand it but I noticed sometimes it gets a downgraded version of it (i.e. The guardian is **** stewardship but the child inherits *** stewardship). Is that possible on all the education traits? Also if for example the guardian has a high diplomacy stat will the child inherit a high skill in there as well? Another question, I noticed that on the map there is the County of Neuchatel where I live and I'd like to play it at some point. However the Count is part of the HRE and has only this one county. I guess playing as him to gain some power would be very hard since I'm kinda in the middle of the HRE. How could I play this dude and gain power? Le0 fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 12:49
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Le0 posted:So I have a question when educating children. The person you pick as guardian will give them their education trait as I understand it but I noticed sometimes it gets a downgraded version of it (i.e. The guardian is **** stewardship but the child inherits *** stewardship). Is that possible on all the education traits? The downgrade is possible on all education traits, as well as the reverse, when the child gets a better education than his mentor. The probability is skewed in favor of the same level as the guardian has, with each step away being more unlikely. So going from **** to * is really rare, but possible. The child is not guaranteed to get the same education trait as his mentor, you can have a martial guardian and still get a stewardship trait. But this is also rather rare. The stats of the guardian don't matter, only his traits. Avoid guardians who have the zealous trait. When you educate a child yourself, you sometimes see the option to pray for your misbehaving child, which has an 80% chance to do nothing and only a 20% chance to work, but it gives you 5 piety. A zealous guardian will chose this lovely option all the time, leading to badly educated children. The best teachers are diligent, temperate or patient (diligent is the best trait). To increase the chance that the child takes on the guardian's culture, the guardian should be diligent and gregarious, and not slothful or shy. While the stats of a child's guardian don't matter, the stats of his/her biological parents do. The base stats of a child are higher if his/her parents have high stats themselves. If you have generations after generations of brilliant strategists with the matching traits (like brave/zealous/strong), then you will get children with a base martial score of 10 once they are adults.
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Oct 23, 2013 13:01
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New dlc sounds pretty good, I like the idea of family members becoming grandmasters of Holy Orders and the like. I assume there's still quite a bit more that will get revealed in the dev diaries though about SoA.
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Oct 23, 2013 13:25
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I'd like it if more events and non-conquering/warring stuff were added. It'd be nice to have things besides feasts and fairs.
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Oct 23, 2013 13:51
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It would be cool if you could send kids off to be sergeants in mercenary orders/holy orders, kind of like the Varangian Guard.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:09
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Torrannor posted:The stats of the guardian don't matter, only his traits. Avoid guardians who have the zealous trait. When you educate a child yourself, you sometimes see the option to pray for your misbehaving child, which has an 80% chance to do nothing and only a 20% chance to work, but it gives you 5 piety. A zealous guardian will chose this lovely option all the time, leading to badly educated children. The best teachers are diligent, temperate or patient (diligent is the best trait). To increase the chance that the child takes on the guardian's culture, the guardian should be diligent and gregarious, and not slothful or shy. This is false. The stats of the parents don't matter at all. Each year, on the child's birthday, there is a chance s/he will gain +1 in each stat if it's lower than the guardian's stat.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:17
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Le0 posted:So I have a question when educating children. The person you pick as guardian will give them their education trait as I understand it but I noticed sometimes it gets a downgraded version of it (i.e. The guardian is **** stewardship but the child inherits *** stewardship). Is that possible on all the education traits? I sent my kid to get tutored by tbe best diplomat in the realm. He had Grey Eminence and something like 28 diplomacy. My kid comes back an Indulgent Wastrel. Great. There's obviously a large degree of randomness in it.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:36
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Thanks for the info guys. I've been in bad shape in my current game and while I'm owning 2/3 of Ireland and 3 county of Wales I have no one with more than 11/12 in Stewardship or Intrigue  Also regarding succession laws. I'm currently running Primogeniture but was wondering if I turned it to elective can I flat out lose the vote? I mean can another person that the one I selected get voted? I guess only if my vassals are not happy with me?
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Oct 23, 2013 14:58
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Le0 posted:Thanks for the info guys. I've been in bad shape in my current game and while I'm owning 2/3 of Ireland and 3 county of Wales I have no one with more than 11/12 in Stewardship or Intrigue Yes, this can definitely happen if your vassals don't like you.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:02
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Le0 posted:Thanks for the info guys. I've been in bad shape in my current game and while I'm owning 2/3 of Ireland and 3 county of Wales I have no one with more than 11/12 in Stewardship or Intrigue Yes, that's the minor risk of elective. But you always have other options to preempt that, like the time-honored tradition of 
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Oct 23, 2013 15:12
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ThomasPaine posted:I sent my kid to get tutored by tbe best diplomat in the realm. He had Grey Eminence and something like 28 diplomacy. My kid comes back an Indulgent Wastrel. Great. There's obviously a large degree of randomness in it. Maybe your kid was just a bit of a poo poo?
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Oct 23, 2013 15:25
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