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Astroman posted:Things are a bit more organized today in Star Trek. I can't say the novels are canon, but the people writing them make a strong effort to have internal consistency and not contradict the shows or movies. This is not to say that your idea about tying the novels/RPGs/comics back into the show isn't good, though. I like the way Enterprise introduced some already-existing material about the Andorians, for instance. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 21:06
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1st AD posted:The pilot and the first season are two vastly different looks though, the miniseries is shot conventionally on film and uses a lot of the language of classic cinema, whereas the series proper is all done on HD video cameras and is shot cinema verite style (except for anything Cylon-related in the later seasons). Yeah, I don't know that I need a lot of steady-cam and snap-zooms in another series, although they probably should aim for something a little less flat than what they were able to pull off in the original series (this is obviously going to happen and I don't feel at all like I'm fantasizing about a pipe dream). I think the big thing is that B5 doesn't really need a story re-work like BSG did to make it work for an audience. It definitely needs plot pacing and a season worth of pare-down, but the core could stay the same. Although the fact that they're borrowing B5 clips for these Samsung commercials- is B5 more well remembered than we give it credit for?
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Oct 23, 2013 21:18
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Sorry to sperg but there's a lot less steadicam use in BSG than you think - aside from that awesome shot from Pegasus where the steadicam sweeps around Cain and Adama as they're about to go to war, most of the steadicam work is relegated to the Cylon basestar scenes where the ultra smooth movements contrast against the normal handheld shakycam and snap zooms in the colonial fleet.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:23
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Trying to keep continuity between books, comics and movies is a huge mess, and movies will always take precedence over TV shows, which take precedence over everything else. One a new movie sequel or TV episode comes out, the comic book is always going to get contradicted. Star Trek can kind of get away with that now as the original Trek universe is "over" and JJTrek has taken over, so you don't have to worry about them putting out a new movie or show that contradicts stuff. Star Wars was sort of like that, although Star Wars openly contradicts itself all the time, and Lucas is gonna do what Lucas is gonna do. Since the new movies are sequels, the majority of the EU is going to have to be contradicted out of necessity, because there is no way you can make it fit. Are you gonna make a trilogy of the Thrawn movies that take place right after ROTJ when Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher are old as hell? Are you going to have Luke married to Mara Jade and just assume audiences are going to know who she is? I think the Star Wars EU is a bigger mess than Star Trek, because Star Trek doesn't even pretend to be in continuity and you can just pick and choose which stories you like and ignore the rest. Had Paramount tried to make the books, games and comics official, Star Trek would be an ENORMOUS mess. Remember, up until this point, Star Wars was primarily just 3 (and then later, 6) movies. Star Trek on the other hand is 5 TV series and 12 movies, with hundreds of episodes. It's hard to make that consistent with itself, let alone a humongous amount of tie-in novels, comics and games.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:30
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I like that Voyager was so keen on hammering the reset button that rather than incorporating Tom Paris' actions in "The First Duty" in TNG, they just change his name and never speak of it. Being the hotshot squadron leader in the academy, attempting a crazy maneuver that gets someone else killed, and using that to create a character with some interesting internal contradictions related to his position and having creative room for personal growth for the character is apparently too loving hard. It wasn't enough for the writers to reset their own universe; they had to reach into TNG's universe and reset their poo poo as well. Voyager is garbage.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:30
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President Kucinich posted:I like that Voyager was so keen on hammering the reset button that rather than incorporating Tom Paris' actions in "The First Duty" in TNG, they just change his name and never speak of it. Being the hotshot squadron leader in the academy, attempting a crazy maneuver that gets someone else killed, and using that to create a character with some interesting internal contradictions related to his position and having creative room for personal growth for the character is apparently too loving hard. It wasn't enough for the writers to reset their own universe; they had to reach into TNG's universe and reset their poo poo as well. That's actually because they didn't want to pay royalties to The First Duty's writers.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:33
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Sprat Sandwich posted:That's actually because they didn't want to pay royalties to The First Duty's writers. Even if royalties weren't an issue, the producers felt incorporating his past in that episode into Voyager would have made him "irredeemable".
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Oct 23, 2013 21:39
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I loving love the BSG snap zooms because it finally got around the age old problem of "space is huge but we need to fit 2 visible ships in the shot with some semblance of composition so that means they're 10 feet apart".DeclaredYuppie posted:Although the fact that they're borrowing B5 clips for these Samsung commercials- is B5 more well remembered than we give it credit for? Can you elaborate on this? I'm horribly oblivious to current advertising since I stopped watching TV on a TV and installed ad-block.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:46
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I loving love the BSG snap zooms because it finally got around the age old problem of "space is huge but we need to fit 2 visible ships in the shot with some semblance of composition so that means they're 10 feet apart". On the other hand, "zoom in on the cock!"
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Oct 23, 2013 21:51
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I loving love the BSG snap zooms because it finally got around the age old problem of "space is huge but we need to fit 2 visible ships in the shot with some semblance of composition so that means they're 10 feet apart". They pulled clips from just about every scifi show ever that had a wrist-based communication device. I don't think it says anything about B5 in particular. B5 is such a weird beast. Every time it comes out for a new format (VHS, DVD, Online) there are a shitton of sales. WB throws money at a new special, then decides to cut the money by 90%. Then they don't market for dick (and the special are legitimately awful) then lock it back away in the vault. The original b5 would sell and does sell just fine. But WB won't do anything with it.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:54
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President Kucinich posted:Even if royalties weren't an issue, the producers felt incorporating his past in that episode into Voyager would have made him "irredeemable". And yet somehow "convicted maquis terrorist" was fine. Oh, Voyager.  OtherworldlyInvader posted:Can you elaborate on this? I'm horribly oblivious to current advertising since I stopped watching TV on a TV and installed ad-block. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL6uqwzQbpk I hadn't seen it before now either, and I think it's a really smart ad campaign trying to build interest in a product nobody was asking for. I don't think it's 'revolutionary' or whatever they want us to think, but it does seem like a cool bit of gadgetry and the ad screams 'we're in the Future!' A bit of TMP in there too. Never noticed those wrist communicators before, and I've seen TMP at least 4-5 times.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:57
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rypakal posted:They pulled clips from just about every scifi show ever that had a wrist-based communication device. I don't think it says anything about B5 in particular. Apparently (according to JMS), WB has been loving B5 for years, most egregiously in the budget/profits department. He alleges that they have done some funky accounting where all the costs for production are counted (plus marketing and distribution, etc.) and all the net profits from sales are shifted to different accounts, like in some kind of international divisions or something crazy like that. This way they can say B5 barely/didn't make them any profits, while simultaneously cashing in (and presumably skating on royalties/residuals). Who knows how true it is, but outward signs definitely point to WB execs giving no shits about B5, and it certainly is not something tv/movie studios would be above doing ethically.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:02
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That Galaxy Gear is gonna flop because it's expensive, doesn't work very well as a watch, and it's an ugly watch for the price that you pay. Also nobody wants to talk into their wrist. Oh and it only works with their ridiculously oversized phone and no other phone.Guy Montag posted:Apparently (according to JMS), WB has been loving B5 for years, most egregiously in the budget/profits department. He alleges that they have done some funky accounting where all the costs for production are counted (plus marketing and distribution, etc.) and all the net profits from sales are shifted to different accounts, like in some kind of international divisions or something crazy like that. Who knows how true it is, but outward signs definitely point to WB execs giving no shits about B5, and it certainly is not something tv/movie studios would be above doing ethically. Hollywood accounting is pretty endemic to the system though, it's not just B5 that's being hosed.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:02
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1st AD posted:That Galaxy Gear is gonna flop because it's expensive, doesn't work very well as a watch, and it's an ugly watch for the price that you pay. Also nobody wants to talk into their wrist. Oh and it only works with their ridiculously oversized phone and no other phone. I have no doubt it sucks. All I would really want on my wrist that integrated with a phone would be an actual watch, or some other unobtrusive bracelet, that could show a caller-id or notification messages via bluetooth. I even remember seeing something exactly like that at least 4 years ago. Trying to make it into a super-all-in-wonder whizz-bang doohickey is trying way to hard, when at best there is only a niche market for this kind of accessory. quote:
Truth.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:06
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So, the missing fourth season appears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-ziTBAkbQ
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Oct 23, 2013 22:07
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Did the original Trek also get horribly shafted and screwed? I ask because it seems to almost be a ritual at this point that a popular sci-fi series will be treated like poo poo and robbed blind, buried, etc. - TOS presumably just staggered on for a while, and I haven't heard of much financial screw for the later series.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:13
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Nessus posted:Did the original Trek also get horribly shafted and screwed? I ask because it seems to almost be a ritual at this point that a popular sci-fi series will be treated like poo poo and robbed blind, buried, etc. - TOS presumably just staggered on for a while, and I haven't heard of much financial screw for the later series. One thing I know for sure is that Michael Dorn, having been in more episodes of Star Trek than anyone else does pretty dang well for himself. I don't know how much is investing his original paychecks well vs. residuals, but the man collects and flies fancy airplanes. He has owned at one point or another at least two honest to goodness fighter jets (F-86 and T-33, according to wikipedia). That poo poo ain't cheap.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:18
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Iirc they got the Friday death slot in season 3 because the show was declining in popularity. Budgets were slashed even further and it just died, it wasn't until syndication that Star Trek became a hit.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:19
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Mister Kingdom posted:So, the missing fourth season appears: Is that... Marina Sirtis as the ship's computer?
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Oct 23, 2013 22:22
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1st AD posted:Iirc they got the Friday death slot in season 3 because the show was declining in popularity. Budgets were slashed even further and it just died, it wasn't until syndication that Star Trek became a hit. It makes me feel some weird kind of nostalgia (for long before my time) and warm fuzzy feelings to remember that we wouldn't have Star Trek at all if it weren't for Lucille Ball. 
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Oct 23, 2013 22:23
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Mr. Jive posted:Is that... Marina Sirtis as the ship's computer? Yes, and that's Scotty's son as Scotty and Mythbuster's Grant Imahara as Sulu.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:41
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Mister Kingdom posted:Yes, and that's Scotty's son as Scotty and Mythbuster's Grant Imahara as Sulu. This is surprisingly not as terrible as I assumed it would be.  Definitely reeks of TOS weirdness, but overall, it could be way way worse. I think Imahara is the weakest link so far, as neat as it is to see him as Sulu.
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Oct 23, 2013 22:55
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1st AD posted:Sorry to sperg but there's a lot less steadicam use in BSG than you think - aside from that awesome shot from Pegasus where the steadicam sweeps around Cain and Adama as they're about to go to war, most of the steadicam work is relegated to the Cylon basestar scenes where the ultra smooth movements contrast against the normal handheld shakycam and snap zooms in the colonial fleet. You're right, I meant to say shaky-cam and totally flubbed.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:12
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The Doctor and Bones were both really great, but one of the best things BSG has going for it is they have the best loving space doctor to ever doctor in space. Doc Cottle supremacy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvB4tTwhQXI Not the best clip, but youtube is woefully lacking in Cottle.
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Oct 24, 2013 00:04
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1st AD posted:Sorry to sperg but there's a lot less steadicam use in BSG than you think - aside from that awesome shot from Pegasus where the steadicam sweeps around Cain and Adama as they're about to go to war, most of the steadicam work is relegated to the Cylon basestar scenes where the ultra smooth movements contrast against the normal handheld shakycam and snap zooms in the colonial fleet. I finally get your name.
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Oct 24, 2013 00:19
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Guy Montag posted:And yet somehow "convicted maquis terrorist" was fine. Oh, Voyager. Not only that, but they were afraid that their watered down version was still too unpalatable. You can see in the first few episodes how they tone him down even more. I guess it shouldn't be surprising considering how scared the show was about its premise in general. The Dark One fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 00:30
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rypakal posted:They pulled clips from just about every scifi show ever that had a wrist-based communication device. I don't think it says anything about B5 in particular. JMS said the only thing he's still interested in is doing a B5 theatrical movie but so many of the actors are dead that there's not much chance of that anymore.
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Oct 24, 2013 00:39
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Gammatron 64 posted:Granted, the Thrawn and X-Wing books are fun, but they're the only parts of the Star Wars EU I even like to acknowledge. You're missing out on a couple other good ones. For instance, the book "Death Star." Turns out the Death Star really was full of contractors when it got blown up. And that being the guy that actually pushed the "fire" button on the superlaser ended up with, like, super PTSD.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:27
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counterfeitsaint posted:The Doctor and Bones were both really great, but one of the best things BSG has going for it is they have the best loving space doctor to ever doctor in space. Doc Cottle supremacy. I still love Bones the most, but Doc. Cottle was one of the best things about BSG.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:47
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Drone posted:Just read a couple chapters while waiting for a phone call appointment and yeah, your description hits the nail on the head. I mean I'm enjoying the book well enough, and it's had some neat things to say about solipsism so far, but in the end I can't help picture stuff like this being written by some superfan back in 1970 and sold in mimeographed form at conventions to other people hawking Kirk/Spock slash and cheap plastic IDIC pins. My understanding was that James Blish was actually on hard times and was basically slumming just to get by, and normally wouldn't have deigned to crank out Star Trek. He also did the adaptations of the Animated Series.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:13
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Guy Montag posted:Apparently (according to JMS), WB has been loving B5 for years, most egregiously in the budget/profits department. He alleges that they have done some funky accounting where all the costs for production are counted (plus marketing and distribution, etc.) and all the net profits from sales are shifted to different accounts, like in some kind of international divisions or something crazy like that. This way they can say B5 barely/didn't make them any profits, while simultaneously cashing in (and presumably skating on royalties/residuals). Who knows how true it is, but outward signs definitely point to WB execs giving no shits about B5, and it certainly is not something tv/movie studios would be above doing ethically. Didn't someone post in an earlier thread (or the B5 thread?) that at least part of the hostility came from PTEN being semi-separate from the traditional WB hierarchy? There's definitely some hosed up corporate politics going on there.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:18
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President Kucinich posted:I like that Voyager was so keen on hammering the reset button that rather than incorporating Tom Paris' actions in "The First Duty" in TNG, they just change his name and never speak of it. Oh what the gently caress, it's like every time I find something that I hate the worst about Voyager, there's another fact that I hate even worse than the last worst thing. As if it wasn't already a show with horrible missed opportunities. This would have made me give a poo poo about Paris beyond how badly Kim wants to gently caress him. Ugh, goddammit Voyager. You're the worst show. I'm going to watch every episode of you by the end of December. gently caress you, Voyager.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:20
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Astroman posted:On the specific question of TAS, I'd say it's about as canon as you can get. You can't go by Memory Alpha, as they are not the official "keepers" of the franchise and will include stuff Paramount may not consider canon. But if you look at the database on https://www.startrek.com a cursory glance reveals entries on Captain/Commodore Robert April and Dr. Stavos Keniclius. So I'd venture to say the whole of TAS is canon, not just Yesteryear. Though note that Saavik is NOT listed as half Romulan there, so they are still keeping to filmed stuff. Just including animated in that. I always thought someone had the right idea - can't remember if it was Gerrold or Fontana - who said it was really silly to not consider TAS 'real' Star Trek, considering that loving Gene Roddenberry (along with various TOS writer veterans) put their names on the goddamn credits every episode, and the title card says "STAR TREK" in big letters. Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 03:22
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Whalley posted:Ugh, goddammit Voyager. You're the worst show. I'm going to watch every episode of you by the end of December. gently caress you, Voyager. I like you. Welcome to the thread.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:23
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Whalley posted:WHAT. Well, they just didn't want to pay the writer royalties for the character.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:35
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 http://www.lookhuman.com/design/19694-a-vulcan-in-the-streets Before you make any Pon Farr jokes, they're already in the product description.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:44
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I've always felt that TAS has a few good episodes here and there and should be considered canon. I mean yeah, it gets really dumb sometimes, but it's Star Trek. Star Trek gets really dumb sometimes. As far as I'm concerned, it's TOS years 4 and 5. I'm glad that it's finally considered canon and "real" Star Trek. I wonder what else Gene wanted to strike from canon, namely which TOS\TNG episodes he wanted to remove.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:52
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Well, I'm sure he wanted to remove all those episodes which painted the Ferengi as not possessing genitals which provide insane amounts of pleasure to human women.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:13
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I always thought someone had the right idea - can't remember if it was Gerrold or Fontana - who said it was really silly to not consider TAS 'real' Star Trek, considering that loving Gene Roddenberry (along with various TOS writer veterans) put their names on the goddamn credits every episode, and the title card says "STAR TREK" in big letters. I always heard that TAS was non-cannon because of the Ringworld crossover species business.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:22
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I would do many disgusting things for more TAS run by colorblind people.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:41
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