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Cao Ni Ma posted:Its almost guaranteed that crystal tower is going to be full of great arrangements from FF3 just like the eventual Gilgamesh encounters are going to have the most bitching rendition of battle at the big bridge yet. I don't think Siren is a Primal though, given how she appears in the game and the fact that none of the beastman tribes worship her.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:27
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Cao Ni Ma posted:You start of with "emerald" carbunkle which is the ranged dps one. Then you get topaz which is orangy gold tank one. After you become a summoner you get ifrit, then you get titan and finally garuda. They've mentioned that you'll get more after the level cap. We know that Ramuh and Siren are already in the game's client and Leviathan is going to probably be the next primal we'd have to fight in the story. We know that there is concept art for Shiva as well. Yeah, I'd seen the two Carbuncles - that was actually the first thing that kinda made me interested in playing. (Carbuncle is awesome, give me a break.) Is it doable to, as a Summoner, have Ifrit and the emerald Carby out at the same time? Because I could probably live with that.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:30
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah this is what I was getting at. And it's not like the classic FF games weren't lousy with pop culture references. SE should get the Working Designs guys together just for future localisations.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:33
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Krad posted:SE should get the Working Designs guys together just for future localisations. I've played what Gaijinworks has put out. You really don't want that.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:34
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SpazmasterX posted:I don't think Siren is a Primal though, given how she appears in the game and the fact that none of the beastman tribes worship her. You can be a Primal and not have someone still around to worship you. I think that's the case with Odin in 14, too.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:36
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ImpAtom posted:I've played what Gaijinworks has put out. You really don't want that.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:42
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Kyrosiris posted:Is it doable to, as a Summoner, have Ifrit and the emerald Carby out at the same time? Because I could probably live with that. No, because you can't have two pets at once. Vanderdeath posted:You can be a Primal and not have someone still around to worship you. I think that's the case with Odin in 14, too. Odin was summoned as well. But being as ridiculously powerful as he is, he had to be sealed in a crystal by someone and "recently" broke loose.
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Oct 25, 2013 01:50
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SpazmasterX posted:No, because you can't have two pets at once. Oh.  And I guess a Summoner wouldn't be very much contribution using the emerald Carby instead of Ifrit, huh?
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Oct 25, 2013 04:20
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Kyrosiris posted:Oh. Well emerald Carby is ranged while Ifrit is melee. During the Titan fight, for example, having a ranged pet is better then a melee one. (also Carby gets replaced by Garuda later on  )
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Oct 25, 2013 04:32
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Fister Roboto posted:It's not even innuendo. I was serious a bit upthread when I said all the NPCs constantly tell you to get sodomized. I'm almost certain that "bugger" is the most commonly used word in the game, followed closely by "shite" and "the". There's also a lot of people threatening castration on each other.
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Oct 25, 2013 04:34
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Jehuti posted:Well emerald Carby is ranged while Ifrit is melee. During the Titan fight, for example, having a ranged pet is better then a melee one. (also Carby gets replaced by Garuda later on But you could always change back to Arcanist when you're around town to keep Carbuncle out.
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Oct 25, 2013 04:35
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ImpAtom posted:Most translation is outsourced. It's part of the reason you can get such widely varied translations from within a single company. To use a more recognizable name, Alexander O. Smith's company Kajiya Production is hired to do a lot of stuff although IIRC he began in-studio at S-E. And even if the translation process itself for Nier was outsourced, there's so much more to localization than translating. Nier is basically the best localization job that any Japanese game has ever had for a couple of reasons. 1. Localization started while the game was in development and was done in parallel to the design of the game in Japan. 2. The devs understood the enormous cultural gap between Japan and the West and that it meant they needed to redesign the main character and redefine his relationship with Yonah, which is the most important aspect of the game for the player to buy into. Actually taking the time to say "hey, western audiences don't always buy into stories that hinge on the player having internalized Japanese family structure, what can we do about it?" is more work in actual localization than all of FF13 got combined. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 04:51
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Defiance Industries posted:And even if the translation process itself for Nier was outsourced, there's so much more to localization than translating. Nier is basically the best localization job that any Japanese game has ever had for a couple of reasons. The Phoenix Wright games did a pretty good job as well. 
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Oct 25, 2013 05:00
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Defiance Industries posted:And even if the translation process itself for Nier was outsourced, there's so much more to localization than translating. Nier is basically the best localization job that any Japanese game has ever had for a couple of reasons. Yeah, Nier is a case where it got frankly more localization than I would have expected but it worked entirely in its favor. It's possible to do a hyper-Japanese game and still have to appeal to Western audiences (Persona 4 is a good case here) but even that requires really thinking about how you're writing the story and handling the translation. In the case of something like Nier "father and daughter" just plays better culturally than 'brother and sister' for the kind of story they were going for and they knew it. You can't do that with everything but you have to at least understand the meaning behind what you're doing. (And that is a big part of why Nier's localization is so good.) FFXIII is really Japanese but they didn't even make an effort which stands out a lot. There are people who don't like FFXII's translation but the Japanese script for FFXII is loving dry and trying to bring it over literally really wouldn't have helped the game any, even if there are people the translation style drove off. People might not like how it turned out but a lot of time and effort way put into the localization and help make the concepts work. S-E really has no excuse for a lot of what they did with FFXIII, not even 'well, it's just how the company handles things.' You can point to plenty examples of how they've put out better products in the same drat timeframe. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 05:06
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I seem to recall FFXII having a lot of colorful references in its fluff quests as well. I sort of assumed it was the localization team's 'thing' to pull that whenever they could get away with it. Who knows. Maybe the original text is just a bunch of 2 chan memes.
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Oct 25, 2013 05:12
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Regalingualius posted:Nononono, guys, guys, you're forgetting the first step in all of this: a J-Pop (sounding) theme song with tangentially-at-best related lyrics! Like this! Is this good? I'd watch it if it had more stupid-awesome poo poo like this. Also, what's the funnest class to play in FFXIV? I prefer tank/DPS classes, as well as any silly "DUDE CHECK OUT WHAT I CAN DO!" classes. Like Guild Wars 1's Dervish, a scythe-wielding profession that can get abilities to morph into an avatar of one of the five Tyrian gods. To this day, I still enjoy hearing newbies go "WHOAH! Dude how did you change into that awesome berserker thing!? Can I do that!?" 
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Oct 25, 2013 05:35
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SSNeoman posted:Is this good? I'd watch it if it had more stupid-awesome poo poo like this. WARRIOR RAAAAGH THROW AXE BREAK ROCKS WITH FACE RAAAGH Marauder/Warrior's a hell of a lot of fun, as long as you don't mind being hilariously worse than the other tank option. Far as DPS goes, I've enjoyed playing Lancer/Dragoon a fair bit (also Dragonfire Dive is maybe the coolest-looking ability in the game) and I hear that Thaumaturge/Black Mage is fun. I personally thought that Pugilist/Monk has way too much movement built into the class, but I hear that gets better at high levels.
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Oct 25, 2013 06:18
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SSNeoman posted:Is this good? I'd watch it if it had more stupid-awesome poo poo like this. It's... Honestly, I watch it more for guilty pleasure than anything else at this point.  But, yeah, the other trailers and series proper do get crazy at points.
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Oct 25, 2013 06:28
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Barudak posted:Just play it for a month, burn out, and come back to the thread so you can bitch how FFXV is never coming out seriously SE. I'd do this but I know that if I get one of those Magitek mounts (they're mounts, right?) I'd never stop.  That loving Sned posted:Oh God, this is wonderful. Final Fantasy II and Dragon Quest II may be some the worst games in their series, but their music is fantastic. It gets a pass because that's clearly the Blood Sword he's holding. 
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Oct 25, 2013 07:49
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Also something worth mentioning about FFXIV - your chocobo can fight along side you and learn moves of its own.
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Oct 25, 2013 14:20
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Ragequit posted:Also something worth mentioning about FFXIV - your chocobo can fight along side you and learn moves of its own. It's more important to mention how loving useless this is. Edit: to clarify, since this sounds kind of mean on it's own, you cannot use a mount or sit in the dungeon finder while you have your fight pal out. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 14:28
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Finally up to the "Open" part of FFXIII - is it just me or are the battles now taking even longer than they did already (And that was already too long)? Or am I just bad
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Oct 25, 2013 15:55
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HitmanAndQuitIt posted:Finally up to the "Open" part of FFXIII - is it just me or are the battles now taking even longer than they did already (And that was already too long)? Hahahahaha welcome to your despair. Enjoy the Behemoth fight. Watch out! Kill him in five seconds or he fully heals AND becomes ten times harder! Enjoy facing literal mountains of HP and flailing helplessly! I made it past where you went, but there's a big boss fight upcoming that just broke me. The game is now "open" and that means it's way harder and even less fun than before. FYI don't waste your time leveling up people's jobs outside of their comfort zone, it simply isn't worth it.
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Oct 25, 2013 16:02
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HitmanAndQuitIt posted:Finally up to the "Open" part of FFXIII - is it just me or are the battles now taking even longer than they did already (And that was already too long)? Not that I can talk, but it should be pretty obvious: There's no good game that only gets good after the first 20 hours.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:12
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I actually didn't hate the first 20 hours... the linearity was a bit tiring but most of the boss battles and stuff were fun. It's the non-boss battles that get to me.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:16
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HitmanAndQuitIt posted:Finally up to the "Open" part of FFXIII - is it just me or are the battles now taking even longer than they did already (And that was already too long)? Train on the fairy types in the SW portion of the Steppe before moving onto the Behemoth fighting the dog-beast on your way to the next plot point. That'll catch you up to speed, but large chunks of the Steppe will still be too difficult even with capped Crystarium. Aside: Totally didn't realize Lightning Return's first boss theme is in 11/8 meter. So rare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zmADlntFoo
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Oct 25, 2013 17:19
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HitmanAndQuitIt posted:Finally up to the "Open" part of FFXIII - is it just me or are the battles now taking even longer than they did already (And that was already too long)? If battles are taking too long you're probably not using debuffs and buffs. They're absurdly powerful.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:24
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ImpAtom posted:If battles are taking too long you're probably not using debuffs and buffs. They're absurdly powerful. That was a bad move in a game that wanted to have fast battles. Making buffs and debuffs super powerful makes them mandatory, and that pads every fight out for two or three turns. FF12 had ridiculously powerful buffs, but it wasn't as bad because you could apply them out of combat.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:28
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Defiance Industries posted:That was a bad move in a game that wanted to have fast battles. Making buffs and debuffs super powerful makes them mandatory, and that pads every fight out for two or three turns. FF12 had ridiculously powerful buffs, but it wasn't as bad because you could apply them out of combat. Huh? It does the exact opposite of that. It reduces the number of turns you spend on battles. That's the entire point of it. Buffing and debuffing isn't padding. It is as much a part of combat as attacking or healing. FFXIII's combat system is partially built around managing and keeping buffs/debuffs up because it's more effective to keep enemy badstatted and attack than it is to mash attack. The "two to three turns" part also makes no sense unless you're seriously trying to apply every buff/debuff before you attack. In most cases there are one or two buffs (which can be applied in a turn) which massively increase your capabilities and anything beyond that is overkill. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 17:28
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Geez, tell me about it. FFXII's buffs, looking back on it, when you get them all up probably increases your damage threefold, and at least doubles it.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:42
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The problem is that the AI is terrible at buffing, and you only get a handful of opportunities to control the only character with offensive buffs until the game allows you to choose your leader.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:43
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Fister Roboto posted:The problem is that the AI is terrible at buffing, and you only get a handful of opportunities to control the only character with offensive buffs until the game allows you to choose your leader. I'm not sure what you mean by that. The AI tends to pick the optimal choice for aggressive combat in every situation. They will default to things like Enfire over defensive spells in a situation where that will be effective but that is usually because Enfire will contribute a lot more to your party survival than a defensive spell. Likewise, if an enemy does strong physical attacks it defaults to Protect-ect. The AI in FFXIII is very predictable and follows a set pattern: It will begin by casting according to Libra information in this specific order: If an enemy has a strong physical attack (listed in Libra) is begins with Protect If an enemy has a strong magical attack it begins with Shell If an enemy has a strong elemental attack it begins with Half-(Element.) If an enemy has a strong status effect it will use Veil If an enemy has an elemental weakness it will use En(Element) Afterwards it will do the following: Caste Haste on itself Cast Haste on allies Add physical/magical defense buffs when the enemy outnumbers the player team Add attack/magical damage buffs when the enemy is fewer than the player/a single strong enemy. Obviously it skips any of these if the Synergist/Enhancer doesn't have the required spell. It also doesn't react optimally until Libra information has been gathered same as other roles. Sabotaurs/Jammers are far simpler: Does the enemy not yet have Libra? Spam until something hits. Does an enemy have a debuff listed as a weakness in Libra? Spam the fucker until it hits. Does an enemy already have "recommended" debuffs activated? Spam other available debuffs based on enemy type. If there are a lot of small enemies it focuses on debuffs that disable the enemy. If there is a single strong enemy it focuses on debuffs that lower that enemy's stats. If there is AI that is kind of awkward it is the Medic: The priority is as follows: Leader at HP < 30% Other characters at HP < 30% Leader at HP < 70% Other characters at HP < 70% Recover dead ally Remove status effect Fill HP to 100% This means you can't actually depend on a medic recovering your status effects unless the rest of the team is alive and in good health, which can be annoying and means you do need to manually Esuna if someone is getting wrecked by a badstat, ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 17:45
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A tip that helped a ton with flying through the latter half of XIII with ease: always start with Bully paradigm (COM/SAB/SYN) I'm about 10 hours into 13-2 and I've already hit cap with a role. This game has an exceedingly fast pace, I assume in response to complaints about 13's slow build. It's a lot more hectic and battles are wayyy shorter, which I still don't know what I think about it. Buffs/debuffs aren't as worthwhile outside of the Haste buff you can get, but it does mean bosses are actually differentiated from most encounters, in contrast to XIII's weird balance where lots of world encounters were harder than actual bosses. The plot is also somehow worse than XIII's which is an impressive feat.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:58
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ImpAtom posted:Huh? It does the exact opposite of that. It reduces the number of turns you spend on battles. That's the entire point of it. If the game wasn't balanced around the assumption you use them in every fight, every fight would be a few turns shorter. The game acts like every moment of it should be vomiting numbers onto the screen rather than spending the beginning of every battle doing the equivalent of warm-up stretches. Buffing and being a part of boss strategy is fine, but when every enemy encounter is balanced on that assumption you done hosed up.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:00
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Defiance Industries posted:If the game wasn't balanced around the assumption you use them in every fight, every fight would be a few turns shorter. The game acts like every moment of it should be vomiting numbers onto the screen rather than spending the beginning of every battle doing the equivalent of warm-up stretches. Buffing and being a part of boss strategy is fine, but when every enemy encounter is balanced on that assumption you done hosed up. Except you're treating them as 'warm up stretches' instead of a part of combat, which is the problem. Buffing and debuffing are also part of combat and shouldn't only be regulated to boss fights. There are tons of non-FF games which make properly buffing and debuffing a major part of the game and are better for it. Your assumption is "well, if they didn't balance around the assumption you used them, every fight would be shorter" which isn't remotely true because it assumes that all they'd do is make buffs/debuffs worthless and drop enemy HP levels down to compensate for not having any meaningful option besides attack/defend/heal. If debuffs/buffs were good then people would still use them. If they they're not then you're making them worthless... entirely so people won't use buffs/debuffs. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 18:03
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Other games (persona did this for instance) emphasize a methodical pace and making calculated decisions. FF13 is about mashing auto battle and the game vomiting out numbers on the screen. It's not that buffs are bad design period, they are bad for the kind of game FF13 wants to be.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:35
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Defiance Industries posted:Other games (persona did this for instance) emphasize a methodical pace and making calculated decisions. FF13 is about mashing auto battle and the game vomiting out numbers on the screen. It's not that buffs are bad design period, they are bad for the kind of game FF13 wants to be. FFXIII really isn't about that though. Yes, it's possible to just mash auto-battle and watch numbers pop up but the actual mechanics are deeper than that. Much like... basically every Final Fantasy game you can basically mash "confirm" and get through a large chunk of battles, but the actual mechanics can be stronger when you actually analyze them. Most FF games tends to have more interesting mechanics under the surface that get buried by the excessively bloated numbers which make it basically pointless to use them. You don't have to touch 90% of what they offer and in many cases uses the more interesting things makes the game slower than just brute forcing the game. It kind of sucks but it's the downside of creating RPGs for a wide audience: it's usually easier to overcompensate than to risk people getting angry they got stuck. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 20:50
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"FF13 is about mashing auto battle" "FF13 battles take too long" do you maybe see a connection
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Oct 25, 2013 20:52
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Occasional paradigm shifting is SO DEEP guys, it totally changes the fact that the whole game screams "go go go!" Non stop. "Methodical pace" is as antithetical to FF13 as coherent plot. I also never said the battles took a really long time, I said buffing was a padding in battle time that clashed with the game's ideal.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:55
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How to deal with every single battle in XIII: 1) start off with at least one of your guys as a commando. 2) switch to an all ravager paradigm. 3) stagger everything, win.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:02
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