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Nomnom Cookie posted:is there a java thing that will load a wsdl and let you make calls. i don't want to gently caress with generated code atm axis2 includes a maven task to generate the code so that you can have the code generation work seamlessly in your normal workflow
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Oct 25, 2013 22:34
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Nomnom Cookie posted:tbh i'd have been better off doing this poo poo in java. i just want to send some soaps but somehow instead im installing perl 5.14 and researching ruby i hate perl soap so much that i often used Inline::Java to call from perl into the java stubs generated by axis2. p-langs have bad soap support that's just how it is. that's why rest exists: when you have bad soap client libraries rolling your own bullshit seems like a good idea edit: a friend told me that ruby soap is getting less bad but i'm not credulous enough to try it for myself
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Oct 25, 2013 22:35
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the best solution is to just have a guid for each file and replace every path and or filename everywhere with those
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Oct 25, 2013 22:41
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ldap put everyones filesystem in active directory cn=dicks,cn=Nomnom Cookie,cn=Users,cn=C:,ou=filesystem,cn=fart,ou=machines,dc=butts,dc=boners,dc=com
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Oct 26, 2013 00:03
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i hate perl soap so much that i often used Inline::Java to call from perl into the java stubs generated by axis2. i eventually got SOAP::WSDL installed but it bitched about a missing method or something when i loaded a wsdl so gently caress that. im not gonna debug ur lovely library that doesn't work on 5.16. yeah i eventually gave up and used soapui. ty all who recommended it. i tried p-langs and they were just as lovely as shaggar said
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Oct 26, 2013 00:07
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plang "programming": not even once
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Oct 26, 2013 05:59
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i suck at programming guys help
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Oct 26, 2013 06:14
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purchase this book: http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Language-2nd-Edition/dp/0131103628 read the entire book. do as many exercises as you have time for if you like C, you can keep programming in C. congratulations, you're a real programmer! if you want to check out other languages instead, you are now prepared, so go right ahead!
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Oct 26, 2013 06:24
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but i herd c was dumb poo poo for idiots. right in this very thread (for real though i need to learn to program, i can only cut it so far in this science gig without it)
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Oct 26, 2013 06:30
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well if you're just a scientist and programming is not your main focus, then the C path may not be the best way to go however, there is nothing dumb or for-idiots about C. your OS kernel and drivers are written in C, along with many important userland libraries and programs. virtually all modern programming languages are implemented or at least bootstrapped in C, and their foreign function interfaces use C calling conventions. C is basically portable assembly. it's the closest you can practically get to what the machine is really doing after learning C, in many situations you may want to use a more convenient, modern programming language. but because you know C, and you know how computers actually operate, you'll understand when these other languages are appropriate. it can be hard to reason about non-trivial issues in high-level languages (especially wrt performance) without SOME understanding of their implementation, and C gives you that
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Oct 26, 2013 06:38
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JewKiller 3000 posted:well if you're just a scientist and programming is not your main focus, then the C path may not be the best way to go kinda the same as with arduino and rasbpi and poo poo, it'll get you started on simple things v quickly but as soon as a nontrivial problem pops up you'll have no idea what you're doing because of the abstraction. IMO it's really best to start at the basics for your field. For programming apps that's c systems programming and quick looks inside driver code. For embedded, which I only keep bringing up because that's what I do, it's electronics
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Oct 26, 2013 15:16
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Phobeste posted:kinda the same as with arduino and rasbpi and poo poo, it'll get you started on simple things v quickly but as soon as a nontrivial problem pops up you'll have no idea what you're doing because of the abstraction. IMO it's really best to start at the basics for your field. For programming apps that's c systems programming and quick looks inside driver code. For embedded, which I only keep bringing up because that's what I do, it's electronics Yep, thats why I hate Maker culture. raspi to blink an LED via 300mb of code and a node.js setup (because you like to get close to the metal) is stupid. buy a loving 555 and learn ohms law btw you are more than welcome to spout off about embedded and systems anything in yospos, i am quite interested and love the poo poo out of embedded stuff, though im still entry level/scrub tier
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Oct 26, 2013 15:56
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JewKiller 3000 posted:well if you're just a scientist and programming is not your main focus, then the C path may not be the best way to go Well im definitely a fan of understanding underlying systems. youve sold me. got any recommendations for learning c on an in depth level.
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Oct 26, 2013 18:58
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these genes aint gonna sort them selves
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Oct 26, 2013 18:59
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Jonny 290 posted:Yep, thats why I hate Maker culture. raspi to blink an LED via 300mb of code and a node.js setup (because you like to get close to the metal) is stupid. buy a loving 555 and learn ohms law Word. I'm kinda new too, not as pro as bloody or Otto Skirzeny but I got me some opinions anyway I'm not gonna hate on the "maker community" aside from the pretension though. Sure they do poo poo that could be done better faster and cheaper on smaller micros and their projects are fairy trivial, but whatever: it's art or it's a hobby. Do whatever you want to make it work. The problem j have though is with people trying to cram these thugs into every situation, or claim that they're a replacement for all micros and that they mean that anybody can do this stuff with little to no learning time. Because yeah you can really quickly et simple projects up and running. I use them at work for exactly that reason. But te deeper you go into it, you realize that there's just as many pitfalls as if you were doing it the traditional way with c, and getting past those pitfalls is a pain in the rear end. And then you just download the atmega data sheet to figure stuff out and it's like, well this isn't an arduino anymore! It's just a chip on a dev board, which is nice, but really can't claim to be revolutionary. I mean for an example, the arduino mega 2560 breaks out its serial lines and allows you to use them like any other pin when writing code. Since they're pins 1 and 0, you might naively assume (since the fifteen minutes you want to spend on this project isn't enough to do real research) that you can use those lines for whatever you want. In fact, if you load firmware that shuttles a lot of data through those pins, it presents you from ever uploading new firmware without an ISP. Oops! Turns out those are the pins that the embedded programmer on the board uses to talk to the boot loader! Sucks! Sure i could have figured that one out with some thought but half the point of using the fucker was I didn't want to think, dammit. And if that happened to somebody who was making a blinkenlight program with his first arduino... He'd be hosed! Because he doesnt know about the underlying structure. It'd just be bricked for his purposes. Sorry for all them caps, timfone strikes again
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Oct 26, 2013 19:02
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JewKiller 3000 posted:however, there is nothing dumb or for-idiots about C that's the problem everyone's an idiot sometimes and c-languages aren't forgiving code red msblaster nimda sasser the world's largest software company can't write c/c++ worth poo poo Phobeste posted:as soon as a nontrivial problem pops up you'll have no idea what you're doing because of the abstraction finding the correct abstraction is more productive than abandoning abstractions altogether, this is why node.js is popular and i guess this is why the "meritocracy" j-language crew hates it and oh poo poo i've gone full tef
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Oct 26, 2013 19:09
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Phobeste posted:I mean for an example, the arduino mega 2560 breaks out its serial lines and allows you to use them like any other pin when writing code. Since they're pins 1 and 0, you might naively assume (since the fifteen minutes you want to spend on this project isn't enough to do real research) that you can use those lines for whatever you want. In fact, if you load firmware that shuttles a lot of data through those pins, it presents you from ever uploading new firmware without an ISP. Oops! Turns out those are the pins that the embedded programmer on the board uses to talk to the boot loader! Sucks! Sure i could have figured that one out with some thought but half the point of using the fucker was I didn't want to think, dammit. and if the alternative is providing a better but optional abstraction that keeps you from using those pins that's a better way to prevent it than a bunch of extra poo poo you have to learn to make lights blink
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Oct 26, 2013 19:13
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nodejs is like eating corn and calling the resulting turd an abstraction of corn
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Oct 26, 2013 19:14
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Cocoa Crispies posted:that's the problem node is a bad abstraction tho, it doesn't even solve the problem it set out to solve node js for hardware is ok--gently caress learning assembly for every other microcontroller-- but i don't see the point, just run lua/python or something. what does node or js get u on a non-web system?
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Oct 26, 2013 19:17
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Jonny 290 posted:Yep, thats why I hate Maker culture. raspi to blink an LED via 300mb of code and a node.js setup (because you like to get close to the metal) is stupid. buy a loving 555 and learn ohms law Aren't there some micro controllers cheaper than 555s
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Oct 26, 2013 19:19
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Malcolm XML posted:i don't see the point, just run lua/python or something. what does node or js get u on a non-web system? there are people who legitimately prefer js  (i find js more fun to write than python cuz i'm all about pseudo-functional programming and i have mad stockholm syndrome) also just because it's an easy ecosystem to get started w/ (npm is the simplest package manager) and because there's lots of front-end devs who want to get out of that awful field
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Oct 26, 2013 19:24
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Malcolm XML posted:node is a bad abstraction tho, it doesn't even solve the problem it set out to solve lots of poo poo works better for tasks it wasn't designed for: java ended up being awful for applets and set-top boxes, but it's still used node's popular because javascript is already basically required for web people, lots of your web skills transfer over, and there's tons of documentation and community support at least js makes more sense and has more internal consistency than php
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Oct 26, 2013 19:27
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abraham linksys posted:also just because it's an easy ecosystem to get started w/ (npm is the simplest package manager) and because there's lots of front-end devs who want to get out of that awful field node really benefits from being new but having enough experienced people around to know what npm needs to be (compare python's history of a million failed package managers and ruby's history of 1.5 that kinda suck)
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Oct 26, 2013 19:29
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Cocoa Crispies posted:and if the alternative is providing a better but optional abstraction that keeps you from using those pins that's a better way to prevent it than a bunch of extra poo poo you have to learn to make lights blink It's not the specific example that's the problem though. I'm not criticizing arduino for having problems, everything has problems. What I'm saying is that abstractions are a nice convenience but the lower you go in terms of hardware the more likely it is that there is no abstraction that doesn't have a hole somewhere. Everything does. And if you can't understand the hole, why it exists, and how to work around it you'll eventually be hosed. Like I said, this definitely doesn't matter to people just picking up arduino for a one off project or even a few. But the more of this stuff you do, and the more complex it gets, the more you run into these holes. There's a certain point which is unavoidable at which you're going to have to learn c, or just later lovely hack you don't understand on top of lovely hack you don't understand until it all falls down like a house of cards. The good news is that once you do bite the bullet, arduino gets even more useful! There are a lot of things that you can now knock out in an hour because you know what's going on and you know how to deal with te holes in things. And, if you get to a place where te libraries don't help anymore, you can actually deal with it. But sticking entirely with the framework and libraries just isn't sustainable.
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Oct 26, 2013 19:40
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Oh and also it's a gateway into other kinda of chips. Arduinos have a decent selection of general purpose micros, but recently with the Leonardo they've just started throwing more power at the situation. If you want to use a chip with MAC architecture or one with hardware floating point then you're poo poo out of luck if you've never used c before. You're about to respond with "port arduino to those!" I know, but you're never going to keep ahead of the game that way. It's like moving to Germany and speaking only English.
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Oct 26, 2013 19:43
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Phobeste posted:Oh and also it's a gateway into other kinda of chips. Arduinos have a decent selection of general purpose micros, but recently with the Leonardo they've just started throwing more power at the situation. If you want to use a chip with MAC architecture or one with hardware floating point then you're poo poo out of luck if you've never used c before. You're about to respond with "port arduino to those!" I know, but you're never going to keep ahead of the game that way. It's like moving to Germany and speaking only English. remember arduino is designed for designers not graybeard uc gurus its supposed to be something u can hack up for a demo or installation in a week or two w/o any major coding skills i doubt they give a poo poo about floating point, and if they do, will know what they're doing with micro controllers
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Oct 26, 2013 19:57
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Phobeste posted:Oh and also it's a gateway into other kinda of chips. Arduinos have a decent selection of general purpose micros, but recently with the Leonardo they've just started throwing more power at the situation. If you want to use a chip with MAC architecture or one with hardware floating point then you're poo poo out of luck if you've never used c before. You're about to respond with "port arduino to those!" I know, but you're never going to keep ahead of the game that way. It's like moving to Germany and speaking only English. just put some io pins on an rpi, make sure interpreted userspace poo poo (by this i mean node or python or processing or ruby or w/e) can hit it fast enough, let the os keep you from bricking it
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Oct 26, 2013 20:03
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different ppl have different reward functions. at one end of the spectrum, some people just wanna make dat led blink, and aren't really fussed about layers of abstraction or efficiency or whatevs. at the other end, there are people who want to learn how to Do It Properly. for them, functionality comes somewhere down the line, and in the meantime they're satisfied simply by the fact that they're learning a thing. just because the vast majority of this thread falls into the latter category doesn't mean the former doesn't exist or are "stupid"
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Oct 26, 2013 20:14
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coffeetable posted:different ppl have different reward functions. at one end of the spectrum, some people just wanna make dat led blink, and aren't really fussed about layers of abstraction or efficiency or whatevs.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:16
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I'm the former and also also v. stupid so where do i sit
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Oct 26, 2013 20:18
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Malcolm XML posted:Aren't there some micro controllers cheaper than 555s probably. and a 555 requires a bunch of extra components, and once it's all soldered up it's permanent whereas you can always just rewrite your uc code if you need it to do something else. and if your project is already using a uc with an adequate timer then throwing in a 555 is a waste.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:21
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coffeetable posted:different ppl have different reward functions. at one end of the spectrum, some people just wanna make dat led blink, and aren't really fussed about layers of abstraction or efficiency or whatevs.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:22
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also i dunno if you've all noticed, but the progress of modern technology is largely dependent on piling one abstraction on top of another so you don't have to care about the small poo poo lol @ complaining bout javascript for controlling a raspberry pi when the main use of js is controlling a global telecommunications network
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Oct 26, 2013 20:22
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coffeetable posted:lol @ complaining bout javascript for controlling a raspberry pi when the main use of js is controlling a global telecommunications network
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Oct 26, 2013 21:38
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abraham linksys posted:there are people who legitimately prefer js doesn't npm put a copy of each package's dependencies in a subdirectory for the package? i've seen that wind up with directory/file paths so long that they exceeded the maximum length in windows 
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Oct 26, 2013 21:44
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coffeetable posted:different ppl have different reward functions. at one end of the spectrum, some people just wanna make dat led blink, and aren't really fussed about layers of abstraction or efficiency or whatevs. except all the poo poo its abstracting really isnt that hard. its php all the way down at this point so gently caress it worry about it in 5 years when the novelty has worn off and you have to start maintaining any of this piss
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Oct 26, 2013 22:11
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prefect posted:doesn't npm put a copy of each package's dependencies in a subdirectory for the package? i've seen that wind up with directory/file paths so long that they exceeded the maximum length in windows https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2156195-fix-260-character-file-name-length-limitation quote:Visual Studio UV Site Admin (Admin, Microsoft) responded · Oct 3, 2013
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Oct 26, 2013 22:34
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uG posted:really isnt that hard this is a terrible phrase. loving arithmetic "really isn't that hard", and yet there are multitudes of people from all walks of life who have immense difficulty with it. things are only easy when you've previously developed processes and experience that can be readily transferred across to the new topic. guess what: if you've never had to rigorously reason about abstract structures before, pointers are a brick to the face. it's saying crap like that which kills people's interest in technical disciplines before they even begin, because they take their first failures as an indication that they're "not smart enough". really, it's just that the wankers harping on about how easy things are had their own comparable failures long ago or in a different area, and recognising that reality just can't trump acting like a condescending bastard, can it? coffeetable fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 22:37
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or hell maybe you actually are a Terry Tao-esque ubermensch and everything is easy for you. in that case shame you're without the good graces to realise not everyone's so lucky
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Oct 26, 2013 22:43
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ps this is just spillover from the frothing rage i devolve into any time i see someone being mocked for poor mathematical ability triplepost motherfuckers
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Oct 26, 2013 22:45
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