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MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

DNova posted:

Does anyone know anything about running a small GA airport? Specifically, what kind of paperwork headaches are involved? It's an FAA designated reliever airport, which probably complicates things a little, but does it bring in any funding?

Your question is a little vague, but here's some starter reading:

http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/overview/

http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/ga_study/media/2012AssetReportAppA.pdf

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The Slaughter
Jan 28, 2002

cat scratch fever
ATP is a pilot mill but I don't know of anybody else who offers the same thing that does it any better, honestly. It's only the beginning of how hosed you will get in your professional aviation career, they get you used to it.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006


Thanks, that answers most of my questions related to possible FAA funding. What about other regulatory stuff for keeping the airport running? Does the FAA come and inspect things regularly and then issue lists of things to fix or upgrade if necessary? Any special insurance requirements? Any other complications or expenses that a person might not know about?

Then what about something like adding REILs or repainting ground markings? Can you do it yourself following some requirements, or does it have to be some pricey FAA-certified contractor?

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

The Slaughter posted:

ATP is a pilot mill but I don't know of anybody else who offers the same thing that does it any better, honestly. It's only the beginning of how hosed you will get in your professional aviation career, they get you used to it.

Yeah even their prices aren't too bad considering everything you get. I just hope I can pick up IFR, commercial, and CFI stuff as easily as I did private pilot stuff.

In the mean time since I have a solid year and a half before I start with them, I'm picking up FSX and a copy of this http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-Pilots-Training/dp/0764588222/ to at least get a idea of what's involved with IFR so I can hit the ground running when the time comes.

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck

e.pie posted:

In the mean time since I have a solid year and a half before I start with them, I'm picking up FSX and a copy of this http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-Pilots-Training/dp/0764588222/ to at least get a idea of what's involved with IFR so I can hit the ground running when the time comes.

Oh have I got a goony online community for you:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3550928

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

yessssssss :fap:

xaarman
Mar 12, 2003

IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE
FYI the Flight Sim IRC ops are nazis.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

E.pie check these out

http://pilotcerts.laartcc.org/page/Home

They do a similar thing at pilotedge only the ATC is even more (much more) legit.

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

sellouts posted:

E.pie check these out

http://pilotcerts.laartcc.org/page/Home

They do a similar thing at pilotedge only the ATC is even more (much more) legit.

I remember reading a bit about VATSIM a while back but forgot all about it. Thanks for jogging my memory, I'll have to look in to that a bit more.

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

e.pie posted:

:cool: hopefully they'll chime in

Yop that'd be me. It was very condensed, stressful and expensive. It also managed to somehow be tons of fun and I made some awesome friends. I'll give a better write up if you're interested. Where are you doing it?

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Rolo posted:

Yop that'd be me. It was very condensed, stressful and expensive. It also managed to somehow be tons of fun and I made some awesome friends. I'll give a better write up if you're interested. Where are you doing it?

Sounds like my kind of fun. I'd love to know
more if you don't mind telling. :allears:

I should be going in Denver at KAPA.

e.pilot fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Oct 27, 2013

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT
What's flying like in snow as compared to rain?

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Top Hats Monthly posted:

What's flying like in snow as compared to rain?

I was in some light snow flying in to Leadville a few weeks ago, other than some haziness it wasn't really any different than a clear day, nothing like rain at all since it didn't splat on the windshield.


Disclaimer: I've never been in anything more than what you'd be able to legally fly VFR in though, so I couldn't tell you what it's like IFR.

edit:
Oh and if there is a good amount of snow on the runway that hasn't been cleared yet, treat it like a soft field landing.

fordan
Mar 9, 2009

Clue: Zero
Speaking of snow & ice, maybe this will be the year I make it up to Alton Bay and land an airplane at a seaplane base. http://vimeo.com/37058917

edit: better video: http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=5oeHYyMTpX6zJW16G7-mRDmIUmRHyq1N

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

e.pie posted:



edit:
Oh and if there is a good amount of snow on the runway that hasn't been cleared yet, treat it like a soft field landing.

Ice on runways can be fun too.

I landed at an airport where the entire runway was covered in black ice, despite the airport reporting the runway had been cleared of snow/ice. After touchdown, directional control was pretty much normal until any brakes were applied, at which point it became clear that braking action was virtually nil, so I just went around and made a mental note to only fly into that airport after another pilot had played guinea pig after a snowfall.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:
Flying in snow isn't that much different from flying in rain. Obviously you need to be aware of the fact that you're most likely going to be accumulating ice unless it's very "dry" snow.

e.pie posted:

Oh and if there is a good amount of snow on the runway that hasn't been cleared yet, treat it like a soft field landing.

Care to explain why?

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

KodiakRS posted:

Flying in snow isn't that much different from flying in rain. Obviously you need to be aware of the fact that you're most likely going to be accumulating ice unless it's very "dry" snow.


Care to explain why?

Because basically is a soft field landing. At least assuming there's a couple of inches of snow on the runway that the plane will sink in to.

At least that's what my CFI told me when we landed on about 3-4" of fresh powder last winter at KLAA.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

e.pie posted:

Because basically is a soft field landing. At least assuming there's a couple of inches of snow on the runway that the plane will sink in to.

At least that's what my CFI told me when we landed on about 3-4" of fresh powder last winter at KLAA.

The soft field technique also gives you a better chance to figure out what the runway conditions are like than a normal touchdown, and puts you in a position to go around that much faster if you decide you don't like the runway.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:
A few things:

1. That whole "support the weight of the airplane with the wing" thing works ok on dirt or grass but unless you're landing on solid ice you're going to sink right through anyway. Think about it. Even if your wing is still holding up %80 of the airplanes weight you're still going to be putting a few hundred lbs of force on each tire. And these tires have a contact patch smaller than your shoe. Think about a morbidly obese man standing in 4 inches of powder.

2. If there's enough snow on the runway that you're concerned about "sinking in" you probably can't see the drat runway and may want to reconsider your decision to land there.

Here are some reasons why it IS a good idea.

1. If you leave some power in as some people do with soft fields you increase your rudder authority which is good because if there's even a little crosswind on an icy runway things can get ugly in a hurry.

2. Soft field landings involve slow airspeeds at touchdown, so you have less speed to burn off with your brakes which may or may not be effective.

3. Keeping the wing aerodynamically "alive" generates some drag which will help you slow without brakes.

4. As a general rule of thumb nose wheels are more fragile than mains and hitting a solid chunk of ice or slush with one at speed is a bit like running over a speed bump.

Colonel K
Jun 29, 2009
I found this on another forum, it's a fun little flying video.
http://vimeo.com/70061517

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Went flying with another controller yesterday evening. Glamor shots:





X51:


TMB:


It was goddamned gorgeous last night. Deadly smooth, decent visibility, and cool.

Suck it, northerners.

Fakedit: not my misshapen dome, that's my friend.

Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!
Plane crashed, wasn't spotted until sunrise at airport in Nashville.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/us/plane-crash-mystery/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This isn't surprising at all to be honest.

Tuxedo Gin
May 21, 2003

Classy.

Tommy 2.0 posted:

This isn't surprising at all to be honest.

I'm just a student pilot so maybe I'm ignorant, but would you mind sharing why it isn't surprising that nobody noticed a supposedly fiery crash at night at a controlled field?

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
I'm diving into the ATC recordings for the estimated time of the incident. The field was socked in, hard IFR. The tower couldn't see any of the airport movement areas at all.

RVR values of 700 are issued by the tower, and he repeatedly tells aircraft that he can not see them, and asked them to report holding short of certain taxiways/runways. He's also running all tower positions as well as departure/arrival radar for BNA.

Tuxedo Gin posted:

I'm just a student pilot so maybe I'm ignorant, but would you mind sharing why it isn't surprising that nobody noticed a supposedly fiery crash at night at a controlled field?

You're not ignorant he didn't explain anything in his post at all. Being that it was a midnight shift I expect he's being pessimistic and insinuating that the controllers were asleep or otherwise distracted. However the LiveATC recordings indicate that the tower was very responsive.

The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 30, 2013

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Passed my 75% D-school evaluation today. I am now roughly 25% less useless than I was a week ago. :v:

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
Great job man. Keep up the good work! Is that just classroom stuff so you can now begin training on D side?

What exactly does a D side controller do?

SCOTLAND
Feb 26, 2004
A 172 landing in RVR700 :wtc:

Gonna be interesting to hear the full story later on.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

The Ferret King posted:

Great job man. Keep up the good work! Is that just classroom stuff so you can now begin training on D side?

What exactly does a D side controller do?

Its the first of three simulator evals, at 75, 90, and 100% of maximum traffic count for our training sector. I have to pass the other two, and then I report back to the floor for OJT.

Some Government Website posted:

The radar associate controller assists the radar controller and receives flight plan information on aircraft anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes in advance of aircraft entering the sector. The associate controller works with the radar controller to plan separation of aircraft and to coordinate with other sectors and facilities.

In reality, when all the associated automation is working, D-sides attempt to make the radar man look like a rock star by fixing things before they even get to his airspace, ensuring compliance with inter and intra facility agreements, and by removing most of his clerical and coordination workload, allowing him to focus on providing radar services to aircraft. You also act as a second pair of eyes and ears, checking his work, and listening for readback errors, etc. When automation fails, the D-side does the same thing, but has to focus a good deal more attention on clerical tasks and coordination. Our training sector (actually a mostly-permanently combined pair of sectors,) adjoins three approach controls, contains most of a rather large MOA/Restricted area complex with sometimes-extensive military ops (F11, TPA, RSW, and the Avon/Placid/R2901 complex, if you're interested,) AND is less than 70 miles in any dimension, so it can get hairy.

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
Do you handle landline coordination and make/accept handoffs also?

I'm trying to figure out if it's more like our terminal facility Flight Data position, or a Coordinator/Radar Assist/Handoff position (everyone calls it something different). The latter are actually jointly responsible for separation in the sector along with the radar control themselves.

Knockknees
Dec 21, 2004

sprung out fully formed

The Ferret King posted:

I'm diving into the ATC recordings for the estimated time of the incident.

Please do let us know if you're able to figure out anything, or add more to the story.

Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

The Ferret King posted:

Coordinator/Radar Assist/Handoff position (everyone calls it something different).

It is this one.

Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

The Ferret King posted:

I'm diving into the ATC recordings for the estimated time of the incident. The field was socked in, hard IFR. The tower couldn't see any of the airport movement areas at all.

RVR values of 700 are issued by the tower, and he repeatedly tells aircraft that he can not see them, and asked them to report holding short of certain taxiways/runways. He's also running all tower positions as well as departure/arrival radar for BNA.


You're not ignorant he didn't explain anything in his post at all. Being that it was a midnight shift I expect he's being pessimistic and insinuating that the controllers were asleep or otherwise distracted. However the LiveATC recordings indicate that the tower was very responsive.

Nope, I wasn't insinuating this, but not even heard the recordings I wouldn't be shocked. I'm going to guess the weather was crap, it was dark, and if the guy even went up in a flaming fireball they might not have been able to see him if he was a half mile or more from the tower. I suppose I should take a look at the WX reports around that time. With an RVR of 700...uhh yeah. That would be my guess. If the RVR really was that low I feel sorry for that controller. Even if he was 100% legal he may catch some serious poo poo for this.

Tommy 2.0 fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Oct 30, 2013

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
They were hard IFR with low RVR values. Everyone was reporting crossing taxiways, holding short, departure rolls etc. High workload, the controllers were all very responsive. Seems unlikely this was an issue with controller attentiveness.

I've been through a few hours worth of recordings so far, still no sign of the report of the crash. Also no sign that the accident aircraft called ATC at all, yet. Still working on it.

The feed gets pretty busy after the sun comes up, so I'm hoping any communication about the accident isn't blocked by other positions on the same feed.

EDIT: Birdstrike by a Hawker Jet just after sun up, closes Ry 2L for inspection. Runway 2R was out of use due to inoperative lighting, but returned to service shortly before the birdstrike. Sounds like a busy morning.

EDIT The pilot report occurs on the LiveATC.net 1330Z recording about halfway through.

The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 30, 2013

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
Cross posting from AI:

Here's the plane's estimated flight path http://tinyurl.com/ms7onvt


The Ferret King posted:

I listened to condensed ATC audio for several hours this afternoon, covering the midnight shift operations after 3am, leading into the traffic build up early morning after the morning crew comes in, and up to the report of a pilot seeing debris on the runway and subsequently the airport being closed entirely. (I have no life)

Because of the nature of LiveATC feeds being from multiple frequencies, not all audio is recorded and archived. It simply records who's talking at the time, and if someone else is also talking on another frequency then you'll only hear the first transmission until it ends, then it will switch to the next frequency with activity on it. Nothing I listened to should be considered a complete record of ATC/Aircraft communications.

That said, here's what I observed.

From 0700-1400Z (and beyond) BNA ATC was hard IFR with no visiblity from the control tower. The earliest recordings are of midnight operations where a single controller is working both the tower positions, and at least one radar sector (I'm unfamiliar with how BNA splits their approach/departure radar sectors). The radar sector is responsible for at least BNA departures/arrivals, plus satellite airports near BNA from what I heard.

The midnight shift controller handled requests from aircraft semi regularly until the morning crew showed up and the positions were split off. I didn't observe calls from any aircraft going unanswered or experiencing excessive delays that might indicate the controller wasn't paying attention.

BNA had some runway issues that morning. Early in the recordings, Runway 2R had a lighting issue preventing its use in such bad weather, but it later became operational. Runway 2L was primarily being used, but a hawker jet had a bird strike on departure and it had to be closed temporarily for inspection. It, too, was returned to use after some delay. I didn't hear Runway 2C getting used much until closer to the report of debris.

The first report by another aircraft of debris on the runway occurred in the middle of the 1330Z-1400Z recording. It was reported near the approach end of Runway 2C and taxiway S:



An airport vehicle is sent out to look at things, and asked to call back on the landline telephone instead of the frequencies. Shortly after, the entire airport is closed. An aircraft on approach is sent around and told that the airport is closed indefinitely and they're trying to get more information.

I didn't think the audio would be helpful past that point so I quit listening to it.

I never heard the accident aircraft on any of the recordings, nor any unusual traffic calls issued during the timeframe indicating that he was noticed by ATC on radar. At the time the crash was estimated (middle of the night, after 3am) there probably wasn't much traffic anyway, so he could have gotten into the airspace without being noticed since he wasn't going to be a conflict with anyone else.

A newer article today had some interesting information:

quote:

https://www.tennessean.com/article/20131030/NEWS01/310300133/UPDATE-More-details-emerge-Nashville-plane-crash

The pilot had rented the plane Monday from Windsor Flying Club in Ontario, according to club president David Gillies. He had filed plans to fly to Pelee Island on Lake Eerie, a route he had flown multiple times.

Gillies said the man notified authorities when he landed on the island hours before the crash, but did not mention another trip.

“There are so many uncertainties surrounding this occurrence,” Gillies said. “I have no idea what flight plan he made.”

The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Oct 31, 2013

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:
http://skift.com/2013/10/30/jetblue-worries-about-losing-pilots-to-better-paying-airlines/

Jet Blue is concerned they're not paying their pilots enough. Meanwhile regional pilots who are paid half as much are being asked to vote in B-Scale contracts. What. The. Hell. I hate this loving industry.


Edit: Was walking to the mailbox a few minutes ago and someone told me I was too old to be dressing up for Halloween. I wasn't dressed up, I was in uniform...

KodiakRS fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Nov 1, 2013

Rickety Cricket
Jan 6, 2011

I must be at the nexus of the universe!
Finally http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/31/5050468/faa-officially-allowing-electronics-during-all-phases-of-flight

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe
Just got my second set of R-sides, only 2 more to go :smugdog:

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008
THE HATE CRIME DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

The Ferret King posted:

Cross posting from AI:

Here's the plane's estimated flight path http://tinyurl.com/ms7onvt

Thank you. We're actually discussing this in SMS class right now, and this info really helped, especially the note about 2R lighting.

I'm kinda wondering if this was a suicide of some kind?

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
My working theory right now is that he was running away with the airplane. Ran short/out of gas in an area locked down by hard IMC and tried to fly into BNA without any luck.

Or he just happened to fall out of the sky directly onto the airport near a runway. But I think that's a pretty big coincidence.

Suicide is another option but it's just so weird that he ended up right at a major airport.


Also,

The FAA is expanding a reduced wake turbulence separation project to SDF airport. It includes implementing a color coded separation overlay on the radar displays that is supposed to help controllers. I don't know exactly what the new minima are, but I've heard of the color coded radar tool before and have always wanted to see it in action.

quote:

Wake re-categorization begins at Louisville

ATPA is a decision-support tool that provides controllers with more information than they currently receive via their radar scopes. For instance, ATPA gives a current precise readout—within one-one hundredth of a nautical mile—of the separation that exists between two consecutive aircraft coming in for landing. It also tells controllers about if and how much of that separation will reduce given current speed and other data of the aircraft as they descend. Under certain wind conditions, the distance between planes tends to compress, such as when they’re landing in a head wind, but have a tailwind farther back on final approach.

ATPA uses a series of colours on the controller’s screen to warn if separation is not being safely maintained, giving them plenty of time to react. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association has been working in partnership with the FAA to ensure that ATPA implementation on the legacy CARTS automation system is keeping up with modifications to the newer STARS programme.

I guess it looks like this, I'm searching for a video of it in motion:

The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Nov 1, 2013

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Tuxedo Gin
May 21, 2003

Classy.

The Ferret King posted:

Suicide is another option but it's just so weird that he ended up right at a major airport.

Not if he wanted it to look like an accident for insurance purposes.

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