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Stay Out of FYAD posted:You think the Qur'an could've had a good reception on Broadway the same way the Book of Mormon did? You think you can steal jokes from Real Time in the Real Time thread? 
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Oct 27, 2013 08:12
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I have a great video for you. I think it will answer your questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn12s19X8xU Just gonna put down some highlights: Sharia Law is not a monolithic thing that has a universal meaning. Most Muslims believe that non muslims should not be judged under Sharia law (whatever it may mean) I am not trying to say that the Middle East is some land of loving rainbows and unicorns here. I am saying that you getting all bent out of shape about people defending Islam (not jihadists as you have claimed, but Islam itself) is just insane. The reason that people criticize Christianity in this country is because Christians are more likely to be the group that oppresses people in our society. Very few people who attacks Christianity think that the problems we have with that religion are features of that religion ONLY. And the reason Western liberals try to defend Islam is because the attacks on Islam are often hypocritical and ignore factors that have historically been sometimes addressed in Islamic societies. Yeah, sure, in modern times women get a terrible, lovely deal in the Middle East (as do apostates), but the fact is that there are historical islamic societies that were incredibly progressive for their time. The Ottoman Empire would be basically indistinguishable from European powers re: human rights. The main point is one that Reza Aslan (featured in my linked video) makes very well. Religion is, by definition, interpretation; and by definition, all interpretations are valid. However, some interpretations are more reasonable than others. To say that Islam must always be one way, or that this way is how Islam is always applied, is just dumb. quote:Saying these aren't inherently problems with Islam is just being intellectually dishonest on your part, quite a bit lazy too. OF COURSE poverty is a cause for the violence & instability throughout the Muslim World as a result of colonialism, but it's far from the only cause. Pointing that out makes the politically correct machine go crazy. Also, this is excluding Iran, Saudi Arabia & Sudan which are well known to be the worse offenders. Political Islam as we see it today in the Middle East is a direct result of Western/European intervention in certain cases. Iran is a great example. They had a pretty drat secular government that wanted to nationalize their oil industry. The US and the UK staged a coup in that country, some other poo poo happened, now we have a theocracy in Iran. Ignoring this process and then blaming Islam is more intellectually lazy than claiming that the horrible history of womens rights in islam is not an inherent problem within that religion itself. quote:Also, according to you that it's not inherently a problem with Islam, please explain why Islam receives a double standard in the Media when Christianity does not. You think the Qur'an could've had a good reception on Broadway the same way the Book of Mormon did? Of course not, because people are afraid that Muslims will retaliate. quote:Moral equivalency without addressing the point, again.
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Oct 27, 2013 08:37
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If Islam is the issue, wouldn't you expect to see the most problems in the countries with the biggest Muslim populations? I mean, if nothing else this is an obvious piece of logic. Islam is the problem, therefore more Muslims = more problems. But the two biggest Islamic countries are Indonesia and India, and in both cases the kind of poo poo that goes on in the Middle East is very rare. Of the top five Muslim population countries, Pakistan is the only one that fits the image. Bangladesh is fine, and Egypt is in flux now but has generally been quite moderate. Modern radical Islam largely stems from the Iranian Revolution and the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, which proved its effectiveness as a tool to fight foreign imperialist forces. The US flat out encouraged radicalism in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, glad that didn't come back to bite us in the rear end or anything.
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Oct 27, 2013 08:46
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Maher should've moreso seen somebody raising the Dominionist point ahead of time considering, you know, he's already had Sharlet on the show to great acclaim/much detail on it and he's part of the Journalism All-Star clique of sorts alongside Scahill and Taibbi in terms of Real Time's best guests. Especially with the initial interview guest and the prospect of OT, it was inevitable that the Islam derail would take the show over at some point---it had far more merit and sensible folks compared to most derails that actually ruin episodes outright with blather and yelling about nothing. Am I the only one that finds it a touch odd how easily Maher jumps at the Good PR Pope of late? The guy is saying things and whatnot alongside very visibly going after that one rich Bishop as per the segment as an easy target for scorn, but there's almost always some lingering synergy to Bill with most issues where he's had HBO Documentary folks on the show directly so it just seems odd that he's back to glossing over the whole massive sex abuse situation that this new pope has yet to crack down on with a fury, as far as I've seen tell of it in the news? On the flip side, about drat time Moore has another film project in the works---polarizing as his tend to be of late, it'll be interesting to see what the topic is and how he goes about it.
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Oct 27, 2013 16:54
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Grand Fromage posted:If Islam is the issue, wouldn't you expect to see the most problems in the countries with the biggest Muslim populations? I mean, if nothing else this is an obvious piece of logic. Islam is the problem, therefore more Muslims = more problems. But the two biggest Islamic countries are Indonesia and India, and in both cases the kind of poo poo that goes on in the Middle East is very rare. Of the top five Muslim population countries, Pakistan is the only one that fits the image. Bangladesh is fine, and Egypt is in flux now but has generally been quite moderate. Actually India has an extremely high number of terrorist attacks. Some of it's a function of overcrowding plus the Naxalite insurgency, but also Pakistan trying to destabilize the Kashmir border region, plus there's plenty of anti-Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/etc. violence. The biggest factor is the lack of stability in the Indian government. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Oct 27, 2013 |
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Oct 27, 2013 17:16
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Am I the only one that finds it a touch odd how easily Maher jumps at the Good PR Pope of late? I thought he was mainly just doing a litany of tongue-in-cheek jokes for a change of pace.
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Oct 27, 2013 23:50
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The new pope seems to have made a lot of people forget about that whole "raping thousands of children and covering it up" thing.
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Oct 28, 2013 00:06
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There's also a huge islamic movement underway in Indonesia right now, western culture is being attacked and they are looking to enact a new prohibition law which looks likely to pass. There's a good read today on this in the Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/world/asia/hard-line-push-to-rid-indonesia-of-alcohol-worries-tourism-industry.html?_r=0 So yeah I think it's fair to say there are problems there.
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Oct 28, 2013 00:11
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Indonesia was also run by autocratic dictatorships for several decades which fell apart in the late 90s leaving a multi-faction power vacuum that still hasn't been fixed. And that's not getting into our support of Suharto against PKI and all that. e: The Mexican Drug War alone accounts for more deaths per day on average than Islamic terrorism as a whole, only accounting for the official statistics and not the known kidnappings, who knows how many of which are dead. Yet Dick Dorkins and Maher aren't constantly bitching about the Mexicans' inherent religious or cultural problems at the root of all that violence. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 00:41
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comes along bort posted:e: The Mexican Drug War alone accounts for more deaths per day on average than Islamic terrorism as a whole, only accounting for the official statistics and not the known kidnappings, who knows how many of which are dead. Yet Dick Dorkins and Maher aren't constantly bitching about the Mexicans' inherent religious or cultural problems at the root of all that violence. Also, maybe Maher & Dawkins aren't bitching about religious violence in the Mexican Drug War because religion has virtually nothing to do with the drug war. You seriously can't be this stupid.
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Oct 28, 2013 01:21
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Stay Out of FYAD posted:You seriously can't be this stupid. Ah, the king of irony returns.
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Oct 28, 2013 01:28
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comes along bort posted:Ah, the king of irony returns. comes along bort posted:Actually India has an extremely high number of terrorist attacks.
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Oct 28, 2013 01:48
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I realize this is a touchy subject guys. And I understand people getting heated when clashing over this kind of stuff, but you can debate stuff without getting all personal and calling each other names. I have faith in you to do that. So you can debate all you want but just keep it civil from this point on ok?
X-O fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 05:50
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The last weeks episode was kind of meh. I had to agree with Michael Moore over Bill on this. Still would have liked to see more sparks fly between Dawkins and Sharpton. This week he is having ANN COULTER on? I am not sure I want to see that. He gets Conservative shills on all the time, but she's outright mean.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:38
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Jastiger posted:The last weeks episode was kind of meh. I had to agree with Michael Moore over Bill on this. Still would have liked to see more sparks fly between Dawkins and Sharpton. Just anyone calling Dawkins out on his racist bullshit would have been nice.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:20
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HipGnosis posted:Just anyone calling Dawkins out on his racist bullshit would have been nice.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:30
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Even if you're bitching about him being a secular supremacist, that's about culture, not race. To say a population that abhors or ignores religion is better since they're smarter is hardly the same as saying "the Arabs are of impure blood and must be purged from this world in atomic hellfire."
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Oct 31, 2013 19:39
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No, it was Dawkins who was collapsing Muslims with a specific race. Which is in itself racist. It's also what they were doing throughout the show. No one here believes when they were talking about "Muslims being blinded by religion" or "wanting to kill us" they were speaking about the most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, surely? Edit: In popular culture and certainly on Bill Maher's show, "Muslim" has become a placeholder for Al Qaeda/Taliban/Hammas/other groups created by American foreign policy/Israeli supremecist blowback. peter banana fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 19:47
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My favorite Dick Dorkins twitter rant was how fewer of those dirty muzzies have won Nobels than Oxbridge, because that proves something. Plus the irony of a scientist citing a stat completely devoid of context to make whatever the hell point he had rattling around that morning.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:22
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HipGnosis posted:No, it was Dawkins who was collapsing Muslims with a specific race. Which is in itself racist. Also if the general consensus deemed Dawkin's statements racist then you bet your rear end Sharpton would've jumped on that opportunity in order to label him a racist on the show. Please educate yourself.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:24
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I...ugh...nah..just nah...
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Oct 31, 2013 20:37
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HipGnosis posted:I...ugh...nah..just nah...
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Oct 31, 2013 20:39
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Watching Ann Coulter crack was kind of amusing. Bill Maher spoils gravity, so don't watch if you haven't seen it and want to. OG KUSH BLUNTS fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 03:26
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I was kind of worried there that when she stood up to try and leave during the obligatory "awkward truck in to panel" shot that the camera was gonna clip her in the head for a second. Edit: Also, wow Bill feels the need to balance Coulter's non-panel appearance with a stacked "strong liberal" panel. How intriguing. Edit2: Overtime should be interesting, assuming she sticks around for it. I can't see it happening because she'd gonna be outgunned 5-to-1 between Maher, Reiner, Wasserman Schultz, Tyson, and Rob Lowe and she doesn't usually do panels that are stacked against her favor. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 05:18
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Haha that Gravity spoiler was pretty funny. You know they really didn't hit on the specific thing that is pissing people off about the "you will keep your current coverage" deal. It seems the main thing is the people who will end up paying a lot more that probably can't afford it. I still don't get how the hell it all works myself. So is obamacare going to subsidize people whos plans go up in cost because they have to switch to a higher cost plan?
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Nov 2, 2013 06:59
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I don't think Coulter said... Anything. Complete waste of time. Is there somewhere I can hear Tyson speak more "unleashed" about sciencey stuff? It seems like whenever I see him on shows like this he is held back by trying to talk to the lowest common viewer and he just says really obvious stuff.
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Nov 2, 2013 07:08
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He does a radio show but it's still dumbed down a bit since it's aimed at a general audience.
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Nov 2, 2013 09:32
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Timett posted:I don't think Coulter said... Anything. Complete waste of time. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=big+think+tyson&page=&utm_source=opensearch (a few of these are pretty good because he's got a 'tude - the 'scientifically-literate children' one, for instance) These aren't bad either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=danYFxGnFxQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0uV5d8tss I concur, it was like he was asleep tonight, and neither Maher nor Tyson plugged Cosmos, even *if* it's 6+ months away. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 11:04
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Reiner with Kennedy Assassination Chat out of nowhere in OT was amusing to the same degree as Wasserman Schultz's baffling water carrying for the administration in terms of the ongoing NSA disaster was cringing. Tyson only came alive for the Both Sides Bad segment in OT that he really should've left well alone and spent his vigor for the night on science proper---where was the glorious, raging diatribe I was hoping for in terms of the damage the shutdown did to Science and such?
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Nov 2, 2013 13:56
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Reiner with Kennedy Assassination Chat out of nowhere in OT was amusing to the same degree as Wasserman Schultz's baffling water carrying for the administration in terms of the ongoing NSA disaster was cringing. To be fair that's kind of her job at the moment. Tim Kaine was far worse when he was head of the DNC.
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Nov 2, 2013 20:20
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comes along bort posted:To be fair that's kind of her job at the moment. Tim Kaine was far worse when he was head of the DNC. I think Howard Dean was the high-water mark for recent DNC Chairpeople, because I seem to recall the only times he went on TV to talk about anything, it was about he was going to kick the poo poo out of Republicans electorally, and then he did and quietly stepped down.
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Nov 2, 2013 20:25
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That and the 50 state strategy, though a bit of dumb luck and basically the depth of the Bush administration's incompetence finally revealing itself helped. Looking back it seems almost crazy how at the time the democratic party was basically nonexistent and Karl Rove and others were boasting about a permanent republican majority. In retrospect that level of hubris was completely absurd but in the moment, right after the election and before Katrina, the sex scandals, and Bush foloating social security privatization it did seem somewhat credible when everyone else had just about given up.
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Nov 2, 2013 20:30
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I'm surprised that Anthony Weiner is going on next week after the amount of jokes Bill did concerning him.OG KUSH BLUNTS posted:Bill Maher spoils gravity, so don't watch if you haven't seen it and want to. I wish he hadn't done that.
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Nov 3, 2013 04:26
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It really wasn't a huge spoiler, anyone with any sense of logic (which, I'll grant is becoming rarer these days) would know when it happens that it's complete bullshit. If anything, he didn't spoil the movie, he just confused the everloving poo poo out of anyone who hasn't seen it yet but will.
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Nov 3, 2013 04:45
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It really wasn't a huge spoiler, anyone with any sense of logic (which, I'll grant is becoming rarer these days) would know when it happens that it's complete bullshit. BS when what happens?
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Nov 3, 2013 05:59
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Zogo posted:BS when what happens? Clooney's character is *real* before he decides he's going to sacrifice himself. Maher's comment suggests to someone who hasn't seen Gravity yet that might will think Clooney's a 'ghost' from the beginning, like in Sixth Sense, or that Bullock is hallucinating the whole thing following the accident, and 95% of the movie is 'imagined.' The reason I said it's "bullshit" is that I can only imagine someone phenomenally gullible would believe that 1) Clooney orbited the earth, 2) had enough oxygen to do so, 3) survived encountering the debris cloud, and 4) had the one-in-a-googolplex odds - without fuel for his EVA pack - of being able to latch on to Bullock's Soyuz by complete chance and happenstance. And the scene is so brief and resolved so quickly that his 'spoiling' it is a complete non-issue. If anything, all he did was ensure people go into it with clumsy misconceptions. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Nov 3, 2013 |
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Nov 3, 2013 06:35
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That's good to know. I was concerned that it was a significant aspect of the film.
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Nov 3, 2013 06:42
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Alice Liddell posted:Maajid Nawaz was actually an incredibly interesting guest and had a good panel discussion on the overtime segment and now I feel like reading his book about leaving fundamentalist Islam. I liked having him on and I know it is a touchy issue but I did think the discussion about Islam (it being used for violence) was nice and that Michael Moore kind of just shut up- every show he had been on he kind of sits there and then when someone says something with facts that don't support his view he just kind of shakes his neck. Timett posted:I don't think Coulter said... Anything. Complete waste of time. She just kind of sat there and laughed... she just laughed at everything and honestly I still don't know if she believes the poo poo she sells. She just froze up, did her cackle and in the end just kind of sat there.
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Nov 3, 2013 06:46
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Rapdawg posted:She just kind of sat there and laughed... she just laughed at everything and honestly I still don't know if she believes the poo poo she sells. She just froze up, did her cackle and in the end just kind of sat there. I did kind of hope that the heckling audience member she called out would actually make a play for the stage.
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Nov 3, 2013 06:53
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:29 |
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I watched overtime today and laughed when Bill made a similar comment to mine. Something like "if I wanted somebody to say nothing I'd get Coulter back out here!" I'll forever hear her cackling in my nightmares. It's so frustrating when she makes a "joke" rather than answering a question or laughing at the question and not answering it.
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Nov 3, 2013 07:08
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