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The Dark Wind posted:I attend a Shambhala center weekly and the leader of the group usually refers to the practice as Samatha, although lately I've also been visiting a Zen center and practicing Zazen. You're right, the main meditation practice at Shambhala Centers is shamatha and it is the core of everything from weekly open houses to month long retreats. Even when vipassana is taught, the practice is to always begin and end with shamatha.
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Oct 10, 2013 21:39
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A lot of teachers, in soto zen, proceed as follows : First, count your breathes. My teacher would tell me to only count the outbreathes, following the outbreathe with your counting : oooooooooooooooooone, twoooooooooooo, etc. When you reach 10 you go back to one. Only counting the outbreathe is already difficult, because during the inbreathe you have to drop your thoughts and stop counting. Do that for a few months, if not more, until you can sit 25 - 30 minutes without losing count and without too much thought interrupting the counting (more often than not you will notice that you are counting AND thinking at the same time). Just go back to one when your mind wanders. Then, just consciously stay with your breathe. You just breathe and don't count anything, but you stay with your breathe. Again, there is no rush, practice like this a lot, for a few months if not more. Finally, you can try not to focus on anything. Just sit in the right posture and let everything go. In fact at this point you are unconsciously focusing on the breathe, more often than not, and you are able to stay with it without paying much attention to anything. Of course this is not fixed once and for all ; when zazen is difficult and you are agitated, you can count your outbreathes again, or focus on the breathe, and when you feel perfectly relaxed, it is easier to let go of focusing. In the end it's only you sitting on a cushion, so you have to deal with yourself as best as you can. Anyway, it all sorts itself somehow and whatever you do, you can't really go wrong. The important thing is not to harm yourself, but also not to quit whenever it is difficult. It's hard to find the balance sometimes... At first, counting the outbreathes was really really frustrating for me, it was a struggle with myself ("drat, i counted the inbreathe again, DON'T DO THIS, argh, the more i try not to count it, the more i count it !" etc etc). Then it evolves and you just do it without thinking about it. Now i really understand how great an introduction to zazen it is. Note that there are also teachers who want to have nothing to do with breathe counting. I think that breathe counting is really great to get the body used to stay in the right posture for long periods of time ; but zazen should really be without any idea of gain or of anything, and the point is really not to make zazen a breathing exercise or a competition against yourself. It's really "just sitting". I found it very helpful to count the outbreathes (because at the same time you have something that helps you staying focused in the beginning, AND you have to totally let go on the inbreathe - so it gets you used to shift between focusing and not focusing), as i discover nowadays that i am able to just sit for longer moments without doing anything, focusing on anything, or thinking anything, when, in the beginning, it was totally impossible for me. Of course in the end, good old mind is going to plan your next meal again, or to think about that beautiful girl you just met, etc, but it is what it is... As Uchiyama said : "sit silently for ten years, then for ten more years, and then for another ten years." Ugrok fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 10, 2013 23:49
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Leon Sumbitches posted:You're right, the main meditation practice at Shambhala Centers is shamatha and it is the core of everything from weekly open houses to month long retreats. Even when vipassana is taught, the practice is to always begin and end with shamatha. Is this common in Tibetan Buddhism (which I know Shambhala mainly derives its roos from) or is it a rather unique feature to Shambhala? Also Ugrok thanks for that whole write up. One particular question: quote:(more often than not you will notice that you are counting AND thinking at the same time). When you notice that you are counting AND thinking (and now I guess noticing as well) do you usually go back to one, or do you keep counting? I'll give counting on the out breaths a shot, so far I've been counting on both in and out breaths. One last unrelated question, but can anyone recommend any commentaries on the Diamond Sutra? I'm trying to get myself more acquainted with the literature. So far I've been working through Thich Nhat Hanh's commentaries (I found the translation in his book a little easier to follow) and working on digesting the contents of all the material slowly. I feel like if I get some different viewpoints it could only help with my understanding of it (while keeping in mind that there's only so much reading and theorizing you can do).
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Oct 11, 2013 00:12
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The Dark Wind posted:When you notice that you are counting AND thinking (and now I guess noticing as well) do you usually go back to one, or do you keep counting? I'll give counting on the out breaths a shot, so far I've been counting on both in and out breaths. Well, my teacher told me to go back to one whenever i was thinking AND counting at the same time. But i cheated a lot, ahahahah... Ideally you go back to one, yes, because the purpose is really to count and only count, and do nothing else ; you have, somehow, to become your counting, to become the outbreathe. So when you count and think at the same time, you are not really counting but just running an automatic "counting routine" in the back of your consciousness. But usually, with a little training, when you notice you are thinking and counting at the same time, you can just return fully to the counting without going back to one. I found it more comfortable that way. In the end you have to experiment with what is comfortable for you. If you stick with it, you'll see, it becomes really comfortable ; and you will notice that the moment you sit, you start counting, but you will also notice after a while that you can easily drop the counting and just stay with the breathe, which is the "next step".
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Oct 11, 2013 10:15
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I find meditation fascinating, and I'm really enjoying you guys' thoughts/advice regarding it. I've been practicing vipassana for a few weeks now and really like it. But now I'm curious about other forms as well; I'd love to hear your thoughts on them. So, do any of you guys practice forms other than vipassana, and if so, how do you find they affect you, in comparison? Do they cultivate different ratios of insight and calmness/samatha? I'm particularly curious about loving-kindness (metta?) meditation and mantra repetitions. I get the impression that metta meditation would enhance capabilities for compassion and empathy, whereas mantra repetition would incite tranquility. I'm also interested in transcendental meditation, but that would probably be going off-topic. Sorry if I've screwed up any terms -- I'm a meditation noob! Thanks!
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Oct 11, 2013 18:32
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I can't really speak on Transcendental meditation; it's more of a hindu thing, though I would hesitate to call it that. Always struck me as specious new age posturing. As for myself, I mostly do sitting meditation; you could call it vipassana, but it's more like zuochan or zazen. Just sitting and being. I also do metta meditation; which as you pointed out is very helpful to develop empathic responses. A good way to start it is to just follow the basics. Imagine yourself first, then imagine yourself happy, then imagine someone that you love, and imagine them happy, then a friend, then someone you hate or dislike, then imagine all the suffering people of the world being happy. Mantra recitation is also a very meritous thing to engage in- though not because of tranquility. Repetitive recitation of something can calm the mind, but reciting a mantra where you attach something beyond semantic meaning to the mantra can help you to form a mental link to those words. Eventually reciting the mantra engages that part of your mind in such a way that the mantra acts for you, not because of you. To say nothing of dedication of that merit to others.
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Oct 11, 2013 21:06
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Does anyone else find Metta meditation to be a very powerful experience for them? I do many different kinds but my mainstay is shamatha which I do everyday for at least 10 minutes. The other 20 or 30 minutes I spend meditating in a day will either be more shamatha or I engage in vipenassa, Metta, or contemplation occasionally and I found a few new types that are interesting to try from meditation blog. I'll edit in a link when I get home.
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Oct 11, 2013 23:04
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When i begun meditating a few years ago i tried metta for a while. I think it is a practice that should be done with a really high awareness of what you are doing. For me, it was disappointing in the end, as i found out that more often than not i tried to force the feeling of compassion, to force myself to feel good for me and for others. And obviously what happened was that i got the opposite result : i was frustrated, not feeling good with myself, because sometimes i could not force the feeling ; and worse, in my everyday life, i begun to feel bad as soon as i got angry at other people, and i was repressing my own emotions. It makes sense if you consider that cultivating a particular state of mind also cultivates its opposite. Try to be joyful and you also open the door to despair. Try to be relaxed and you end up tense. Try to love everyone and you end up hating the whole planet. Etc etc. In zen there are no such things (that i know of - maybe more experienced practicioners may correct me here, but i never read or heard a teacher promoting this kind of practice) as metta or cultivating any particular state of mind. The idea behind zazen is that by taking the posture, by simply sitting still for a period of time without changing a thing to whatever happens inside or outside yourself, you are manifesting compassion, equanimity, and total openness, whether you are aware of it or not. The posture has it. There is no need to chase after a special state of mind, there is no need to do anything : when you sit properly and stop all your activities, it is enough. A while ago, i was practicing zazen, and sometimes i felt really good, i felt like i loved everything and everyone, and after a while i begun, more or less consciously, to try to reproduce this feeling each time i sat. I read in Dogen's Shobogenzo that the qualities of zazen were equanimity, compassion, openness, so i was trying to feel that during zazen. When i told my teacher, he told me to stop : there is no need to do anything, really. Sitting is enough. Still, it does not mean that metta is not a right or good practice, that's not what i meant ; i think it helps to have more than one perspective on it, though. I know that other schools really put an emphasis on metta. I think, though, that this is really the kind of practice that should be discussed regularly with an experienced teacher, because it is easy to fall in the trap of repressing your emotions in the name of "total love and compassion", especially when you feel so good about the practice. I think the buddhist compassion is something really more subtle that a simple good feeling about others. It's not about just feeling good about the others, it's not about "love" in the common sense. This misunderstanding often gives birth to a buddhism that feels like a "happiness dictatorship" : just force yourself to love everyone and you will be happy ! Follow these rules and happiness is guaranteed ! I don't think this works. For me, buddhist compassion is also feeling how terrible and violent and a filthy piece of suffering garbage you are, and everyone with you, and be ok with that, and feel the beauty, even if sometimes tragic, of it all. Compassion is not just about love and good feelings : it's about taking with you the whole human package, and not everything is pretty. Maybe other practicioners have a more detailed view on buddhist compassion, i would be really interested in reading about it. In Shunryu Suzuki's "Zen mind, beginners mind", he says that having too much pleasure practicing, as well as being totally discouraged with the practice, should both be warning signs that our practice is not well balanced. Of course we encounter this from time to time, it's no big deal, but i really think he is right. He speaks about zazen, of course, but i think it would apply to metta as well. I would really be cautious with myself if i begun thinking "wow this practice really is powerful". I don't mean it is bad or good to feel this ; it's great to have pleasure practicing, of course ; but still, i would ask myself it this is not hiding a strong attachment or a strong desire to achieve something or to be different from who/what i am. Ugrok fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 12, 2013 |
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Oct 12, 2013 00:07
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Ugrok posted:
Metta isn't meant to be seen as just a good feeling about yourself and others. It is a pure and genuine expression of a desire for goodwill toward all beings. In that sense I guess it isn't necessarily subtle. It is nothing short of a universal desire for compassion. quote:As a mother would risk her life Metta is one of the Brahmaviharas and is considered one of the sublime mental states. They are the embodiment of how a purified mind should regard other beings and deal with the world. I think, if anything, they aren't emphasized as much as they should be in modern Buddhist practice. I guess I should add that I don't know much if anything about Zen, so I don't know if they are really dealt with in that tradition.
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Oct 12, 2013 00:48
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Razage posted:Does anyone else find Metta meditation to be a very powerful experience for them? I find it very powerful, and of all the meditation objects I have dealt with it sticks with me the longest. If you are finding it useful and want to look into it further, you might be interested in the Dhamma talks from this Metta retreat that was led by Bhante Gunaratana (the author of Mindfulness in Plain English) You have to request the CD by mail but it is free. I got a copy last year sometime, an while I can't really hold a retreat on my own, the talks are really good. There are also a bunch of guided metta meditations on their download page that are great.
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Oct 12, 2013 00:55
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Thanks for the awesome info regarding different kinds of meditation. It's so drat fascinating. Must try them all!
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Oct 12, 2013 07:27
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Following earlier discussions, here is a great article by DT Suzuki, in which he links transmigration to compassion via the concept of "trisna" (fundamental thirst or desire). Food for thought ! http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/mcb/mcb07.htm
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Oct 13, 2013 21:49
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I'm still confused on the difference between Insight meditation and Samatha meditation. Am I focusing on something other than my breath in Samatha? I got ahold of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind on Audiobook and the narration makes it even more fascinating. I picked up on subtle meanings that I glossed over before. I highly recommend it if audiobooks are your thing.
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Oct 14, 2013 17:20
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I started writing up a reply and realized that this article by Thanissaro Bhikkhu does a better job than I could possibly hope to do. I think I may have posted it once earlier in the thread but it is good reading for anyone who is interested in the differences between meditation methods and how they are described in the suttas. One Tool Among Many - The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice The breath can be used as a meditation object for both. Honestly the best reading you can do regarding both types of meditation are the books by Bhante Gunaratana, as he covers each method in detail and explains the differences and how they are beneficial to each other.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:57
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Anyone have any recommendations for doing walking meditation at home? I've been trying to sit longer, and I've found that interspersing it with something like walking meditation is usually a solid way to keep me awake and active. However, I live in a cramped apartment in the middle of the city. Would standing meditation be a viable alternative? Or does anyone have some words of wisdom for finding ways to perform walking meditation at home?
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Oct 15, 2013 05:28
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Let's talk nirvana. No, not the grunge band. Is it cessation of the Samsaric wheel and slipping peacefully into a void of nothingness, never to return in rebirth? Is it transcending existence and non/existence and reaching a sublimely higher plane? The readings in my graduate comparative religion course seem to present both as viable outcomes but this seems like a good place to find clarity.
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Oct 15, 2013 05:55
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My understanding is the latter, but I have no understanding, no 'I', and the holder is identical to the held. Or something. Also what makes a plane higher or lower?
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Oct 16, 2013 02:47
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Perhaps I should have said another plane of existence/non-existence. Higher plane usually refers to beyond the mundane or the beyond plane that you, me and everybody else is on. If anybody else has read 'em, we are reading Philip Novak and Huston Smith for this course.
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Oct 16, 2013 05:48
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Is any Buddhist writing on the topic of suicide?
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Oct 16, 2013 16:36
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Knockknees posted:Is any Buddhist writing on the topic of suicide? As I recall, there was one example of 2 advanced disciples who wished to take their own lives- they may have had some extremely debilitating disease, and Gautama Buddha discouraged it.
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Oct 19, 2013 17:36
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So, I have this thing sometimes when I sit (I think you would call my meditation zazen) where I feel a big buildup of energy and I just want to shake my arms and legs or just extend them. This last time I instead brought my attention to different parts of my body and went down to my toes and it slowly faded, I think. Any idea what's up with that? It gets pretty frustrating
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Oct 22, 2013 07:46
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I just came home from a friend's place and when walking I remembered the walking meditation we did at the sangha I've visited a few times. Just for the sake of trying I decided to slow down to the same pace: perhaps a step a second and small steps, just moving one foot in front of the other. I didn't even want to meditate, just walk. It's weird how different all suddenly felt. I was moving so slowly it felt funny and almost awkward and dumb. At first I felt almost uncomfortable how slowly the trees growing next to the road were going past me. It also felt absurd it might take me 10-15 minutes to walk the last 400 meters to my home. But then I thought, what hurry was I in? I was going to eat and pack a little after getting home and there was no strict schedule for that. The entire day I had either done something with someone or I was going somewhere with a purpose (to do stuff with people). I did have my own time in the early evening, but I used it for a 5 kilometer run, which doesn´t exactly give the mind time and peace to observe its surroundings. This was the loosest I've let my leash today and it felt nice. I've been home for half an hour already and now I don't even want to do much anything, just sit and be. Walking really slowly outside feels different from simply sitting at home. The mind can rest in both situations, but home is very familiar, so the thoughts start to wander much more easily. When walking it was interesting to watch how the wind made the trees move and what the surroundings really looked like. It was also the first time a rabbit spotted me and didn't immediately run. It let me approach it for half a minute at least. I recommend trying that. At first it feels ridiculous how you're almost standing still, not really going anywhere. But do you have to? And are you anyway?
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Oct 23, 2013 20:39
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Rurik posted:At first it feels ridiculous how you're almost standing still, not really going anywhere. But do you have to? And are you anyway? Love this. Going to do this next time I take a walk 
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Oct 23, 2013 23:27
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Watch out for cars.
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Oct 24, 2013 08:32
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Heh, crossing the street did get much more interesting. I was looking for a gap in traffic. Luckily there weren't many drivers since it was 10 PM and I took my 20 seconds to cross the street without seeing any cars.
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Oct 24, 2013 08:54
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bobthedinosaur posted:Let's talk nirvana. No, not the grunge band.
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Oct 24, 2013 11:27
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I read a Suzuki quote earlier: "There are, strictly speaking, no enlightened people, only enlightened activity." I'm not sure it's correct to think of enlightenment as like, a star you put on top of the Christmas tree of your ego. Like OCHS just said, "you" die. But you stop forgetting that you aren't your ego - you're Buddha, the universe, the whole deal. There is no self, there is no other. The whole of existence is not two things.
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Oct 24, 2013 17:19
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ObamaCaresHugSquad posted:You die, and the world remains. That happens in the end, regardless of whether or not I seek enlightenment. Or do you mean ego death through seeking enlightenment?
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Oct 24, 2013 18:33
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bobthedinosaur posted:That happens in the end, regardless of whether or not I seek enlightenment. Or do you mean ego death through seeking enlightenment? I am actually trying to be helpful here, I hope you see my point. Edit - I could write whole books about this to be honest, and most of it would be unhelpful, but I do want to say this: I don't like the word enlightenment very much, because it doesn't exactly feel like enlightenment when it happens. For me, and it happened like 3 years ago, is just a realization of "Oh. gently caress.", and since then I guess in one sense I've been going back through all the conditioning I thought was important, but now more and more realize is absolutely senseless. All the things I thought I was and needed are increasingly shown to be worthless. I prefer to call it Destruction or the Dissolution, but that's just my creative license, I think everyone is free to call it what they want because it's a wholly personal process. It is not the objective ultimate goody, like our Toaster friend above was alluding to. It's seeing all the ways in which you were wrong, and basically just dropping the whole thing. What happens next? Who knows, and who cares. I could go on. but for some reason I feel like it's too important to me to be talking about in an internet thread. It's the most radical thing that can happen to a person, it deserves to be seen apart from all the madness. I could be wrong there too, I dunno. the worst thing is fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 21:24
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I get what you're trying to say OCHS about it being a personal experience. I didn't mean offense by asking. Perhaps I framed my question too narrowly... But do you see what I was going for? ex, it's shoddy and reductionist to express the Christian concepts of heaven and hell into "place where you hang out with angels, dead relatives and God" and "That place with fire and the devil" respectively. But it also serves a purpose of simplification to convey the concepts with broad strokes for non-observant people.
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Oct 24, 2013 23:07
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bobthedinosaur posted:I get what you're trying to say OCHS about it being a personal experience. I didn't mean offense by asking. I know what you're getting at. You want to know "where it is" in some kind of conceptual map. It's back the other way. Hope that helps. I feel like recently I just jettisoned my last worldly plan and am now going to just take it a day at a time, out of lack of anything better to do. That's the direction this is heading for me. If you want to know more, check out this guy- http://www.youtube.com/user/NoahElkrief - He's a friend of a friend, he seems to know what he's talking about, even if his language is a little simple. I just prefer a more philosophical orientation but I might be the one overdoing my own thoughts rather than him understating his. I plan to meet him sometime, but he's across the country from me right now. Also read everything Adyashanti wrote and watch to his videos. Attend a retreat of his if you can. He's the real deal, he lives it. He will provide great insight. My teacher is Lama Surya Das, attend his retreats if you can. Recently apparently he had some new personal breakthrough and I am curious to how he is different now, so I might go to another retreat just cause. If you really want to know what it is, you will find it. It might not (will not) be what you think. This goes to everyone in this thread. the worst thing is fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 23:34
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Hey guys. I'm interested in religious history, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me about the inter-religious dialogues and influences between Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism?
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Oct 24, 2013 23:38
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Has anyone here heard anything from any Sangha about non-alcoholic beers and the Fifth Precept? I don't quite mean stuff like O'Douls which is straight up 0%, but something that's >0.5% and pretty much not going to be noticeably bioactive. I haven't had a drink since I took the refuge vows with the Dalai Lama and while I'm not jumping to start boozin' up, I miss the taste and also discovered that Molson makes non-alcoholic beer. 
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Oct 28, 2013 07:08
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Has anyone here heard anything from any Sangha about non-alcoholic beers and the Fifth Precept? I don't quite mean stuff like O'Douls which is straight up 0%, but something that's >0.5% and pretty much not going to be noticeably bioactive. I haven't had a drink since I took the refuge vows with the Dalai Lama and while I'm not jumping to start boozin' up, I miss the taste and also discovered that Molson makes non-alcoholic beer. I would be inclined to say they are probably fine. My reasoning for this is that the Pali wording of the precepts basically translates to substances that cause heedlessness. You'd have to drink a painful amount of nonalcoholic beer to get any kind of effect.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:38
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I asked this once before and never got an answer on it, but, what are your opinions of Pure Land Buddhism? Unfortunately there's not really any other sangha's/temples/gatherings around here except Thai, Pure Land, and Vietnamese Buddhism; and I don't know really anything about the distinctions between them and say, Mahayana.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:41
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Pepsi-Tan posted:I asked this once before and never got an answer on it, but, what are your opinions of Pure Land Buddhism? My limited understanding of the quick and dirty of it is that it's basically regular Buddhism ethically, but with added devotional things towards specific Dhyani Buddhas (usually Amitabha) meant to ensure rebirth in a Pure Land. It's not to the neglect of Buddhist ethical or moral behavior and reasoning, and certainly does not neglect the teachings of the historical Buddha, but adds onto this reasoning that even doing everything we can, it is very difficult to attain enlightenment in this material Samsaric world, so we should not only do everything we can to advance on the path in this lifetime, but also seek to attain an auspicious rebirth in the Pure Lands where we can attain enlightenment easier. In Tibetan Buddhism specifically, some of these practices are also observed, but as a kind of parachute plan, with the goal to attain enlightenment in this very life being foremost, but with practices that ensure rebirth in a Pure Land serving as a backup and also being used as a merit-generating practice. I can't speak much for the actual practice and observance of Pure Land practitioners, because in my own practice prayers to be reborn in a Pure Land are rather secondary. It's not a primary goal, but it's good practice regardless.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:22
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Is the concept of Nirvana similar to the Collective Unconscious? Upon reaching it would the ego die and be consumed into the collective All or God or whatever or is my understanding deeply flawed?
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Oct 29, 2013 02:12
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PrinceRandom posted:Is the concept of Nirvana similar to the Collective Unconscious? Upon reaching it would the ego die and be consumed into the collective All or God or whatever or is my understanding deeply flawed? I think you're thinking of Hinduism/Brahmanism.
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Oct 29, 2013 02:29
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PrinceRandom posted:Is the concept of Nirvana similar to the Collective Unconscious? Upon reaching it would the ego die and be consumed into the collective All or God or whatever or is my understanding deeply flawed? Your statement assumes the ego is an actual entity and not a delusion created by individuals and perpetuated by society. So no, it does not.
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Oct 29, 2013 02:38
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I was wondering if anyone here had any experience or contact with groups affiliated with the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT)? I've been practicing meditation on my own for a few weeks now and think I would benefit from going to a more structured group, and the nearest one to me is an NKT centre. I've read online and seen some of the controversies they've been involved in, but was wondering how much that affected individual groups?
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Oct 31, 2013 13:54
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