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What's most surprising to me is that I'd never realized that Russia's economy was that small. Small enough to be compared to Texas! Wow. The breakup of the USSR really did a number on them, huh. 
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Oct 29, 2013 01:02
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DrSunshine posted:What's most surprising to me is that I'd never realized that Russia's economy was that small. Small enough to be compared to Texas! Wow. The breakup of the USSR really did a number on them, huh. Partly that. Also partly that even during the cold war when everyone was worried about the Soviet industrial powerhouse, most people didn't realize that not only were the Soviets pouring an insane percentage of their GDP into the military, it still wasn't actually enough to keep their troops trained and their tanks all working.
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Oct 29, 2013 01:29
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I still can't believe russia made us care so much about them in the last century. Talk about hitting above their weight.
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Oct 29, 2013 01:37
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 A map of which countries the United States has formal diplomatic relations with. Green means they do, red they don't, and yellow is disputed/unrecognized countries.
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Oct 29, 2013 02:13
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Farecoal posted:
Whats up with bhutan are we afraid of the 'mighty dragon' or something or I guess we cant actually be assed to establish an embassy there? 
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Oct 29, 2013 02:22
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Lawman 0 posted:Whats up with bhutan are we afraid of the 'mighty dragon' or something or I guess we cant actually be assed to establish an embassy there? We're afraid of being contaminated by those freaks with their focus on "Gross National Happiness" or whatever. How can you be happy without a relentless focus on gaining money? I think the real reason is we just don't care enough.  This map is the same thing, but with Bhutan instead. (Blue means that they don't have individual relations but interact with thouse countries through the EU)
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Oct 29, 2013 02:25
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Lawman 0 posted:Whats up with bhutan are we afraid of the 'mighty dragon' or something or I guess we cant actually be assed to establish an embassy there? The second one, sort of. According to the CIA World Factbook (which I just looked up), Bhutan signed an agreement with the UK in 1910, by which they had local autonomy from British rule in India, but their foreign policy was controlled by Britain. After 1947 that role was assumed by India, and the UK and USA both communicate diplomatically with Bhutan via New Delhi.
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Oct 29, 2013 02:29
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Lawman 0 posted:Whats up with bhutan are we afraid of the 'mighty dragon' or something or I guess we cant actually be assed to establish an embassy there? My understanding is that until like 1973 Bhutan only had diplomatic relations with India. To this day, only three countries (India. Bangladesh, Thailand) have diplomatic missions that are actually in Bhutan, with most of the rest with formal relations apparently just having concurrent accreditation on their ambassador to India in New Delhi. Edit: Also something like half of the countries on that map have only established formal relations in the last three years or so. I'm sure the US will get to it eventually... Basil Hayden fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 02:51
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Killer robot posted:Partly that. Also partly that even during the cold war when everyone was worried about the Soviet industrial powerhouse, most people didn't realize that not only were the Soviets pouring an insane percentage of their GDP into the military, it still wasn't actually enough to keep their troops trained and their tanks all working. Also, there was a pretty big portion of their population that was in all the breakaway SSRs. Pop density, from 1982:  Also, the population pyramid (as of 2010). Lets play Spot The National Catastrophes! 
PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 04:57
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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One thing I love about the USSR's demise is that all those old songs about communism from the 1950s were 100% right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh378oyTQWQ Oh no joe.
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Oct 29, 2013 05:09
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PittTheElder posted:Also, there was a pretty big portion of their population that was in all the breakaway SSRs. Nothing kills old men better than booze.
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Oct 29, 2013 06:13
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Dusseldorf posted:Nothing kills old men better than booze. Average male life expectancy in Russia is 63 (2011), I when I was talking to a guy that was 30 he was grousing over the fact his life was already half over. Fun times!
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Oct 29, 2013 06:27
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Farecoal posted:We're afraid of being contaminated by those freaks with their focus on "Gross National Happiness" or whatever. How can you be happy without a relentless focus on gaining money? They're slightly theocratic and ethnic-majoritarian as well, but they do at least govern by unusual and probably goodish principles.
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Oct 29, 2013 06:30
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Dusseldorf posted:Nothing kills old men better than booze. The middle one is I'm guessing the collapse of the USSR, what's the latest one? The 1998 crash?
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Oct 29, 2013 07:04
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The last one is the collapse of the USSR, as given the 20 years old and from 2009 it makes it the thing starting in 1989 rather than the thing starting in 1969. The middle one going from 1969 to 1979 I don't know.
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Oct 29, 2013 07:12
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Farecoal posted:
We have established relations with Burma? Cool, I didn't know that. Does that mean I have to call them Myanmar now?  Also how the US works in Taiwan is pretty entertaining.   It's not an embassy we swear! It only just happens to be staffed entirely by State Department FSO's 'on leave' or 'retired.' Here's the PRC's not-consulate in Hong Kong. Of course we can't have a consulate because we're in the same country. So let's give it a better, catchier name!  Hong Kongers go through China Travel Service, which is literally a travel agency that sells tour packages and books flights and stuff, to get their "Home Return Permit" that is effectively a visa to travel to the mainland.
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Oct 29, 2013 07:13
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Look at all the unborn commies. Don't forget to drink your vodka favored forget-juice.
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Oct 29, 2013 07:13
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At least, that's what I thought wiki said, that clearly doesn't make sense. wiki, Demographics of Russia posted:Population pyramid of Russia as of 1 January 2010. "Waves" are caused by huge losses in the WWII. The sharp narrowing in the base of pyramid is caused by consequenses of economic collapse of 1990s. e: VVVVV PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 07:25
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PittTheElder posted:The top one is WWI, the middle one is WWII, the last is the downfall of the USSR. I think the lag is because it's mostly a decline in birth rates and malnutrition of the young folks at the time that still shows up now, rather than the outright lethality of any of the events. Would WWII really have such a muted effect compared to WWI or the collapse?
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Oct 29, 2013 07:27
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Yeah, clearly it wouldn't. The top gap has to be WWII; someone who was 65 in 2010 would have been born in '45, so that top gap has to be declining birthrates and infant mortality during the war itself. The bottom gap is somewhat obviously the effect of the declining economy following the dissolution of the USSR. Not sure what's going on in the middle. Maybe it's just a knock-on effect of the WWII gap. A decline in birthrates during the war would have resulted in a lot fewer couples of child bearing age right around the time of the middle gap. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 07:32
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Badger of Basra posted:Would WWII really have such a muted effect compared to WWI or the collapse? It is still pretty substantial, especially since it effects females almost as much as males. Also, yeah the 1990s weren't a very happy time for Russia/CIS, it was basically a catastrophic depression most of the world just ignored because "they deserved it." The middle gap I think is just a normal relative gap between the baby boomers and their children, basically the Soviet "gen x". However, Soviet/Russian generations don't map as neatly compared to the US because in general they have kids relatively younger so the generations seem more compact. Basically, their babyboomers go from 1945 to 1965 roughly, gen x goes from 1965 to 1982-1983 and their Gen Y gets cut off in 1991-92 because of their depression. In Russian culture today there is a very hard cut off between people who are over 20 and under 20, it is a surprisingly sheer generational gap. I have heard people in their 20s say they that teenagers are just like completely different people to them. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 07:32
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Oddly enough it probably received less attention than the massive waves of famine that happened as they pulled out of the Civil War in the 20s, even as everyone was freaking out about them becoming filthy reds. Maybe just because 'Devastating Famine' commands a lot more attention than 'long term economic depression and general national malaise.'
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Oct 29, 2013 07:37
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PittTheElder posted:Oddly enough it probably received less attention than the massive waves of famine that happened as they pulled out of the Civil War in the 20s, even as everyone was freaking out about them becoming filthy reds. Maybe just because 'Devastating Famine' commands a lot more attention than 'long term economic depression and general national malaise.' It wasn't as bad as the Civil War and the aftermath, or the early 1930s famine but it wasn't pretty either and I think "general national malaise" is underselling it. There was a point in the 1990s that even meat consumption dipped way below Soviet levels (if you thought waiting inline was bad...) and life expectancy for men was dipping into the 50s (from around 65 during the 1980s). This was in a country that a year years earlier was not only considered developed but a superpower to be feared Basically 25-30 years later, life expectancy for men has finally reached to where it was under the Soviets to put the disaster in perspective. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 07:43
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Emanuel Collective posted:Yes. The United States is absurdly wealthy. And if this chart doesn't capture the wealth produced by stock exchanges (which I don't think it does-otherwise New York would dwarf California) then the wealth should be even higher. Use this map whenever anyone says the U.S. doesn't have the resources to provide the basic services other countries do. A lot of them actually have similar populations; Florida and the Netherlands, Ohio and Belgium, New York and Australia,...
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Oct 29, 2013 08:01
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Antipodes - I'm surprised by how few there are in this world. The full list of exact/near antipodes in this world: Christchurch (New Zealand) — A Coruña (Spain) Hamilton (New Zealand) — Córdoba (Spain) Hong Kong — La Quiaca (Argentina) Junín (Argentina) — Lianyungang (China) Padang (Indonesia) — Esmeraldas (Ecuador) Palembang (Indonesia) — Neiva (Colombia) Rafaela (Argentina) — Wuhu (China) Segovia (Spain) — Masterton (New Zealand) Tauranga (New Zealand) — Jaén (Spain) Ulan Ude (Russia) — Puerto Natales (Chile) Valdivia (Chile) — Wuhai (China) Whangarei (New Zealand) — Tangier (Morocco)
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Oct 29, 2013 11:11
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It's because most of the southern hemisphere is water and its largest land mass is uninhabitable. Antarctica shall rise again! :cryingstegosaurus:
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Oct 29, 2013 11:22
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Ardennes posted:It wasn't as bad as the Civil War and the aftermath, or the early 1930s famine but it wasn't pretty either and I think "general national malaise" is underselling it. There was a point in the 1990s that even meat consumption dipped way below Soviet levels (if you thought waiting inline was bad...) and life expectancy for men was dipping into the 50s (from around 65 during the 1980s). This was in a country that a year years earlier was not only considered developed but a superpower to be feared It also probably sheds some light on why Putin is seen as a demi-god.  Not pictured: The first drop that halved Soviet GDP.
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Oct 29, 2013 11:57
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steinrokkan posted:It also probably sheds some light on why Putin is seen as a demi-god. I wouldn't say he is seen as that anymore if he even did, his popularity has slipped alot (Russia's performance since the crash hasn't been as spectacular) and a lot of that economic growth never "tricked down." It does show how bad the 1990s were for Russians though and what allowed Putin his pretext. That said, the latest Russia budget has been pushing austerity measures on civilian spending, as everyone knows, civilian spending is already laughable as it is. Obviously it is better than what happened, but the feeling here is that the future is looking more and more uncertain. That said, Russians are notoriously fatalistic, but they're probably right.
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Oct 29, 2013 16:32
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Ardennes posted:In Russian culture today there is a very hard cut off between people who are over 20 and under 20, it is a surprisingly sheer generational gap. I have heard people in their 20s say they that teenagers are just like completely different people to them. What are the characteristics of the generations? I'm surprised the cutoff is as tight as people in their 20s vs teenagers.
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Oct 29, 2013 16:47
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flatbus posted:What are the characteristics of the generations? I'm surprised the cutoff is as tight as people in their 20s vs teenagers. It is a pretty giant gulf, although the exact age can vary especially if someone if from Moscow/St.Peterburg versus the rest of Russia, you could argue it is 22 and below in some places or 19/20. However, teenagers and children seem to be much more expressive (maybe demanding?) and just plain louder than their parents and seem to have fully embraced Western consumerism full stop. Obviously there is a gradient here (and there really hasn't been studies on this yet since it is literally in the process of happening) but obviously there is a impact of Westernization has had an effect although obviously it is hard to sum up a generation in any country. I don't know if you could say that they are "more liberal" though the recent far right protests (over a stabbing of a Russian man by a guy from the Caucasus) in Moscow had a lot of teenagers and people in their early 20s. If you do the math, it would make sense that the cut off would somewhere after 1991, maybe delayed a few years because commercialization took time to take off in parts of the country. Basically, teenagers have absolutely no memory of the old system and a globalized world is all they know at this point. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 17:00
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Ardennes posted:It is a pretty giant gulf, although the exact age can vary especially if someone if from Moscow/St.Peterburg versus the rest of Russia, you could argue it is 22 and below in some places or 19/20. However, teenagers and children seem to be much more expressive (maybe demanding?) and just plain louder than their parents and seem to have fully embraced Western consumerism full stop. Obviously there is a gradient here (and there really hasn't been studies on this yet since it is literally in the process of happening) but obviously there is a impact of Westernization has had an effect although obviously it is hard to sum up a generation in any country. Currently working in Ukraine and I've definitely seen a difference in attitude among teenagers, but I can never decide if it's indicative of true change in attitudes or just youthful exuberance. I've heard from many Peace Corps Volunteer how their most promising female students often end up dating someone 10 years their senior and in short order leave school, get married, and start having kids. One woman I work with, who I've always thought to be rather progressive, is letting her 13 year old daughter date a 20 year old. She seemed honestly shocked by my dismay.
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Oct 29, 2013 20:47
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And if you're ever in the former Soviet bloc, it's pretty funny how there's a similar clear line with second languages. Anyone above the age of 30, you can pretty much just talk to in Russian and assume they will understand you. Anyone below the age of 25, the same applies to English.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:21
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It would be a terrible world if this were all reversed, with the new generation of Americans speaking russian, and our birth rates depressed.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:28
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Mu Cow posted:Currently working in Ukraine and I've definitely seen a difference in attitude among teenagers, but I can never decide if it's indicative of true change in attitudes or just youthful exuberance. I've heard from many Peace Corps Volunteer how their most promising female students often end up dating someone 10 years their senior and in short order leave school, get married, and start having kids. One woman I work with, who I've always thought to be rather progressive, is letting her 13 year old daughter date a 20 year old. She seemed honestly shocked by my dismay. That particular issue I don't know is generational or just the result of circumstance, Ukraine was even harder hit than Russia by the depression of the 90s and there is a strong pull in both countries to get married really young and have kids. Granted, we will have to see how it shakes out in a couple years but gender relations are very stuck in a traditional-style even if many women work. Although many times women have to work, take of their kids and... take care of their husband at the same time. Hopefully it will change, but I think it is going to change in the big cities first (Kiev) or in Russia (St.Peterburg/Moscow) and then very slowly work its way across both countries. I actually really wish someone would do some more work on youth culture in the CIS at the moment, because I think there is a monumental shift going on and it is connected with globalization, westernization, and maybe even the development of a counter-culture. Granted, it might be also connected to the continued rise of the far-right. I do get a sense the ground is shifting under the feet of at least Russian culture (Ukraine does share a large amount of common history and culture) but where it is going to go is anyone's guess. Consumerist apathy? Fascism? Maybe even the rise of a new left?
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Oct 29, 2013 21:34
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Pure anecdote time, but I've NEVER seen such a high amount of hot young women with 20+ their senior fat awful looking dudes in my life than in Ukraine. Even my wife who's from there was a dismayed as she said it was not at all like that when she was living there. The wealth disparity within the country as a whole and between genders was very in your face and very gross.
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Oct 29, 2013 21:39
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sweek0 posted:Antipodes - I'm surprised by how few there are in this world. I like how the province of Formosa in Argentina and the(formely)Formosa island are almost antipodes.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:24
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Baronjutter posted:Pure anecdote time, but I've NEVER seen such a high amount of hot young women with 20+ their senior fat awful looking dudes in my life than in Ukraine. Even my wife who's from there was a dismayed as she said it was not at all like that when she was living there. The wealth disparity within the country as a whole and between genders was very in your face and very gross. Yeah, thats sadly typical, and I really think it is just purely economic, the rural Ukraine got hit brutally hard by the last 20 years and there are very few options for both young men and women there and basically young people have to make do. Guys might be able to get some type of job reliant on physical labor but the pay is usually laughable, and for women, they often have even less options even if they are smart and driven. The minimum wage in Ukraine increased to $.86 an hour in nominal terms (wooooo!) and in Russia it is around $1.
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Oct 29, 2013 22:25
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Baronjutter posted:Pure anecdote time, but I've NEVER seen such a high amount of hot young women with 20+ their senior fat awful looking dudes in my life than in Ukraine. Even my wife who's from there was a dismayed as she said it was not at all like that when she was living there. The wealth disparity within the country as a whole and between genders was very in your face and very gross. It was the same thing when I was in Estland. Most of the 'trophy wives' all had expensive fur around their necks too even if it was in the middle of a ridiculous heat wave. Russia was (by my anecdotal evidence) doing surprisingly fine though. I hung around in front of the office where all the marriages are officiated in St. Petersburg for a while waiting on someone (it is like right next to the Hermitage) and there were tons of young couples going in with no real old men or women in sight.
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Oct 30, 2013 00:52
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:And if you're ever in the former Soviet bloc, it's pretty funny how there's a similar clear line with second languages. Anyone above the age of 30, you can pretty much just talk to in Russian and assume they will understand you. Anyone below the age of 25, the same applies to English.
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Oct 30, 2013 01:02
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Ofaloaf posted:That was my experience in Georgia, except the under-25s weren't as good with their English as the over-30s were with their Russian. There was also a surprising amount of German-labelled products for sale in Georgia too, though. Is the German language used at all in the ex-Soviet states, or is that just a thing related to EU exports or somesuch? GDR despite it size was one of the most important industrial sectors for the soviet economy, specially consumer products. If something was german made it was fancy and good quality. This is another big reason why all the ex-soviet nations had such economic hardship after the fall, suddenly all the all economic links and chains were broken and the west didn't really want any of that poo poo since they had their own demands met. East Germany went from being by far the most prosperous soviet countries to absolute economic ruin that still hasn't healed.  Yes! An actual MAP in the the map thread!!
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Oct 30, 2013 01:08
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