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Mr.Unique-Name posted:Yeah, both of these statements are being critical of the third party developers, not Nintendo. I was talking about your thing. "Nintendo needs to secure third party exclusives like MS and Sony do." "They" is Nintendo, who as discussed in the thread actually needs to do a whole lot more to revive the Wii-U than securing some games (although that part is important too!). Your post even mentioned "complaining about Nintendo and saying they're failures". "Why are those dipshits working with Nintendo?" "They" are now the third-party developers (specifically Crowbear was talking about Sega) who have made what can be called a poor business decision. So when your point is that "asking why they aren't doing something then decrying them for doing said thing is asinine", it really looks like you're talking about Nintendo not securing third-parties in the first "they" and third-parties taking the bait in the second. Considering Nintendo's history of making decisions with little regard for third-parties and the failure of their current console, it makes a whole lot of sense to criticize Sega for signing that contract. Spiffo fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 17:31
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The problem is people buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games, and almost everyone else's stuff sells like poo poo. Now, usually Nintendo has this steady stream of first and second party stuff to prop up a system, but they don't for WiiU for whatever reason. I blame increased development costs/cycles related to WiiU being their first HD system, but I'm no industry insider, so I don't know.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:36
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Zack_Gochuck posted:The problem is people buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games, and almost everyone else's stuff sells like poo poo. Now, usually Nintendo has this steady stream of first and second party stuff to prop up a system, but they don't for WiiU for whatever reason. I blame increased development costs/cycles related to WiiU being their first HD system, but I'm no industry insider, so I don't know. If we're talking about specifically Sonic however, SA2 Battle was the highest selling third party game on the GCN and outsold a good number of the Nintendo first-party titles that came out for the system in the following years as well.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:43
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Sonic games and several kinds of Ubisoft games are some of the exceptions to the "third parties don't sell on the Wii" thing, largely because they actually targeted the Wii's demographics. Just Dance sold absolute gangbusters, Sonic games sold really well, and so-on. Rayman Legends even sold better for the Wii U than it did for the 360/PS3 from early information. This is why also Ubisoft and Sega were so willing to work with Nintendo, because their games sold on the Wii.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:48
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Boiled Water posted:Why oh why did they take the deal? Maybe because the Wii U version of Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Transformed was the best seller.
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Oct 22, 2013 17:54
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Spiffo posted:I was talking about your thing. Wouldn't Nintendo be the sucker in this deal? No one looks at Sega games and says million seller. You really think Nintendo thought W101 was going to sell gangbusters? Bayo2 got turned down by everyone, but Nintendo is suckering publishers. Sonic is getting flayed by reviewers, and the only other third party games on the WiiU that are critically liked came months after their current gen versions. Nintendo can only do so much with what they're given.
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Oct 22, 2013 18:16
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I wonder how many exclusive games the Wii U will get that aren't secured through an agreement with Nintendo. Exclusive games can happen in other ways, most commonly when the platform is very popular and the larger install base might allow the game to make a profit without having to also develop it for other platforms. It can also happen when one platform is far more suited for that type of game, such as RTS and MOBA games on PC. However, the Wii U has such a small install base that a game would have to be one of the bestselling games on the platform for it to break even. The userbase is also heavily skewed to games like Sonic, Rayman, and Just Dance, so many games like Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, and Grand Theft Auto V don't release versions on it because they might not make a profit from the additional cost of development and testing. The Gamecube was still popular to get ports of franchises like Splinter Cell and Prince of Persia, even if the small disc format caused some problems. In fact, many Gamecube and Xbox games, like Resident Evil 4 and Psychonauts, got PS2 ports despite the difficulty in getting them to work on the hardware, and even outsold their original releases because there were so many PS2 owners to buy them.
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Oct 22, 2013 18:38
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Crowbear posted:Just because Nintendo needs it doesn't mean it was a good business decision for Sega. Bad decisions are par for the course for Sega. 
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Oct 22, 2013 18:43
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:And, at the moment, it isn't for anybody. My point is that asking why they aren't doing something then decrying them for doing said thing is asinine. Nintendo should be doing more to promote confidence in third parties, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea for those third parties to jump on board.  Sega could be forgiven for such a decision though- they signed on early, back when nobody thought it was going to fail quite this badly.Just about the only third party that has unambiguously made out better than they would have otherwise is Platinum, and that's only because they're being bankrolled by Nintendo.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:42
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One and the Same posted:Just about the only third party that has unambiguously made out better than they would have otherwise is Platinum, and that's only because they're being bankrolled by Nintendo. Yeah, it doesn't really matter to them how many sales they make, since they're a developer and not a publisher. I'm just glad that they're able to make the sorts of games they want to, rather than having to pitch ideas to publishers that aren't interested.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:51
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It could affect Platinum, though. If their reputation for making games that sell like poo poo gets worse it could hurt their chances at getting future work.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:54
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Crowbear posted:It could affect Platinum, though. If their reputation for making games that sell like poo poo gets worse it could hurt their chances at getting future work.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:58
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I'm curious what the contract for Bayonetta 2 stipulates in terms of money Platinum gets. I know people say "Well Bayonetta 2 wouldn't even exist if Nintendo didn't fund it" but depending on how Platinum is getting paid (Sales, % or is a minimum amount guaranteed) they might have been better off not throwing money into a furnace making that game.
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Oct 23, 2013 00:12
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RagnarokAngel posted:I'm curious what the contract for Bayonetta 2 stipulates in terms of money Platinum gets. I know people say "Well Bayonetta 2 wouldn't even exist if Nintendo didn't fund it" but depending on how Platinum is getting paid (Sales, % or is a minimum amount guaranteed) they might have been better off not throwing money into a furnace making that game. Little to late for that since I'm fairly certain the game is deep into development. quote:It could affect Platinum, though. If their reputation for making games that sell like poo poo gets worse it could hurt their chances at getting future work. Platinum already has this rep, every single one of their game fails to perform, probably because they aren't hand holdy crap, they force you to learn the nuances of the game or get destroyed.
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Oct 23, 2013 01:38
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RagnarokAngel posted:I'm curious what the contract for Bayonetta 2 stipulates in terms of money Platinum gets. I know people say "Well Bayonetta 2 wouldn't even exist if Nintendo didn't fund it" but depending on how Platinum is getting paid (Sales, % or is a minimum amount guaranteed) they might have been better off not throwing money into a furnace making that game. This is pretty unlikely. Contracts don't work that way. Occasionally you'll get things like the infamous metacritic rating for a bonus thing but you have to really be stretching to think that particular situation is even remotely likely. If anyone is going to take a loss on it, it would be Nintendo. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 01:41
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Alteisen posted:Platinum already has this rep, every single one of their game fails to perform, probably because they aren't hand holdy crap, they force you to learn the nuances of the game or get destroyed. Yeah, I never blame anyone for not liking a Platinum game (though I love them and do get annoyed at reviewers who can't catch and communicate what the games are doing even if they don't like it). It's like those cartoon martial arts montages where the protagonist barely survives some insane "training" deathtrap, and by the end of the montage they're flipping through it carrying a full beer. There's no Green Hill Zone in a Platinum game.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:00
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Alteisen posted:Platinum already has this rep, every single one of their game fails to perform, probably because they aren't hand holdy crap, they force you to learn the nuances of the game or get destroyed. For me, Platinum simply doesn't put out the games I like. But I don't think that is because they are too hard or anything. There are many people who love Dark Souls but I simply find their games to be kind of dull. I played God Hand for quite a bit and after a while, I felt that it just wasn't for me. I tried Vanquish, and got bored pretty fast with it. On another note, I remember how mad people were when Capcom decided to port Resident Evil 4 over to the PS2. Then it turns out that the PS2 version sold far more than the Gamecube version did.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:10
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RagnarokAngel posted:I'm curious what the contract for Bayonetta 2 stipulates in terms of money Platinum gets. I know people say "Well Bayonetta 2 wouldn't even exist if Nintendo didn't fund it" but depending on how Platinum is getting paid (Sales, % or is a minimum amount guaranteed) they might have been better off not throwing money into a furnace making that game. While it varies from contract to contract, the publisher usually attempts to make back the cost of development before the developer starts seeing any royalties. A developer like Platinum may not have enough money to go on past a few months at their current capacity if they don't have work coming in. Some elite independent developers, such as Epic Games, could negotiate favorable contracts due to their track record. I imagine Bungie has a sweetheart deal with Activision.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:41
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deadwing posted:Maybe because the Wii U version of Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Transformed was the best seller. It was? At a glance the 360 version sold more and the Wii U version was dead even with PS3. Who the gently caress knows with vgchartz though. Even if the Wii U version did sell more, PS360 + PC combined trounce it in sales. Going exclusive likely required a serious moneyhat.
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Oct 23, 2013 04:22
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Equilibrium posted:It was? At a glance the 360 version sold more and the Wii U version was dead even with PS3. Who the gently caress knows with vgchartz though. Even if the Wii U version did sell more, PS360 + PC combined trounce it in sales. Going exclusive likely required a serious moneyhat. According to Sega's own financial documents the game sold 1,360,000 units total. Of those, 310,000 were on the Wii U which was the highest selling SKU. Another 190,000 were on the 3DS. The rest were divided among Vita/PC/PS3/360. These were from earlier in the year and so there's probably been some change, but it's unlikely (even with price cuts) that any of the three (except maybe the PC version since I'm pretty sure it got a big Steam/Amazon sale) saw a significant increase over the others. This is also for the US/European release because it didn't get a Japanese release at all. VGChartz, as said repeatedly, makes poo poo up and their numbers are bullshit. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 04:29
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whaley posted:When did the last 3D Mario come out, like three years ago? The frequency is way less than the multi-platform spanning endlessly cloned Grown Men With Guns game that has had like 90 different variations come out every year for over half a decade now. I mean really what do you get on the new systems that wasn't already coming out? A free to play Killer Instinct by a random developer and the mediocre series Killzone? I guess Infamous is fairly unique. But please, do continue whining how there's nothing new. One and the Same posted:I'll bet the bean counters at Sega are busy harassing their legal team into figuring out if they can squeak out of this three-game exclusivity deal by releasing Lost World: Episode 2 and 3 in a bundle, download only, each only a third as long as the first, and twice as lovely. They're sturdier than you'd think. They still have decent moneyspinners in their RTS's, they've just acquired a fanatically devoted fanbase with the Atlus takeover, and Sega Sammy's pachinko profits make it drat near unsinkable. One and the Same posted:Nintendo should be doing more to promote confidence in third parties, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea for those third parties to jump on board. ....which makes them second party by definition. Alteisen posted:Little to late for that since I'm fairly certain the game is deep into development. I'm sorry, how did Dark Souls and Demon Souls sell again?
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Oct 25, 2013 23:20
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I really wouldn't blame them for getting lazy and putting as little effort into these WiiU games as they can get away with. Between being roped in on this dumb console and getting screwed by Gearbox, Sega can't be doing well these days.
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Fulchrum posted:Contrast, Resogun, Octodad, Blast EM Bunnies, Rime, The Witness, Don't Starve, Doki Doki Universe, Soma, Everyone Gone To The Rapture, Rays the Dead, Outlast, Nuclear Throne, Secret Ponchos, Helldivers, Galak-Z, Mercenary Kings, Basement Crawl...... Sorry but I wasn't complaining about there not being anything new at all you weirdo. That's a very nice list of multi-platform releases you have there in response to my post about exclusives. Basement Crawl is an exclusive though, and is going to ruin Nintendo this holiday season. whaley fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Oct 27, 2013 |
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Oct 27, 2013 22:33
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whaley posted:Sorry but I wasn't complaining about there not being anything new at all you weirdo. That's a very nice list of multi-platform releases you have there in response to my post about exclusives. Basement Crawl is an exclusive though, and is going to ruin Nintendo this holiday season. How many of these games are coming to the Wii U?
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Oct 28, 2013 04:08
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Fulchrum posted:How many of these games are coming to the Wii U? OH SNAP loving MEGA BURN gently caress
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Oct 28, 2013 18:15
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Fulchrum posted:How many of these games are coming to the Wii U? Art Academy, Toki Tori 2, Mutant Mudds, How to Survive, Shovel Knight, Pier Solar and the Great Architects, Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs, Mighty Switch Force, Nano Assault, Scram Kitty and his Buddy on Rails, I can sit here and list a lot of cheap games that won't be on the PlayStation 4 or XBox One that are on the Wii U. I don't get what you're trying to tell me at all. Basement Crawl. That sounds almost as important as Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs. or Scram Kitty. whaley fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 22:33
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I picked up a Wii U Wind Waker bundle from a goon and I wish I would have gotten this console sooner. I really love the gamepad. In fact, when I go back to my PS3 the controller feels empty!
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Oct 28, 2013 22:54
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whaley posted:Art Academy, Toki Tori 2, Mutant Mudds, How to Survive, Shovel Knight, Pier Solar and the Great Architects, Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs, Mighty Switch Force, Nano Assault, Scram Kitty and his Buddy on Rails, I can sit here and list a lot of cheap games that won't be on the PlayStation 4 or XBox One that are on the Wii U. I don't get what you're trying to tell me at all. Basement Crawl. That sounds almost as important as Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs. or Scram Kitty. You're the one who asked what new games were coming out. Don't get pissy once duder actually lists some.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:44
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whaley posted:Maybe the Wii U will gain from the PS4 and XBox One launches when people realize the Wii U has good exclusive games and the PS4 and XBox One have nothing but last-gen ports and that's it but I don't think people are that observant. I don't even see the promise of any good games on those systems at this point unless I'm really missing something but everyone is still throwing a fit over them anyway because Crosshair Aimer Version 7 Million has a higher resolution. People have had a lot of time to see what Wii U exclusives are out. Also most people are buying the games for their potential which is what I suspect that many Wii gamers did as well. There is nothing wrong with wanting a more powerful system either. Lets not forget the differences between the Wii version of Dead Rising and the Xbox 360 version. Its a really extreme example but the point still stands.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:08
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Spiffo posted:You're the one who asked what new games were coming out. Don't get pissy once duder actually lists some. I didn't ask any of that but I am definitely pissy. I'm not real sure why you guys think a list of PlayStation Vita and 3DS and PC games has anything to do with exclusive PS4/XBox One games to look forward to. Fuckin LiST. The three pieces of concept art for Basement Crawl are definitely starting to sway me though. whaley fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 00:14
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whaley posted:I didn't ask any of that but I am definitely pissy. I'm not real sure why you guys think a list of PlayStation Vita and 3DS and PC games has anything to do with exclusive PS4/XBox One games to look forward to. Fuckin LiST. The three pieces of concept art for Basement Crawl are definitely starting to sway me though. Hey man, I know Basement Crawl is a funny name for a bideo game and is easy to joke about, but several of the games he listed are in fact exclusive to the PS4! Just off the top of my head Rime and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture are both being co-developed by Sony Santa Monica, and Resogun is also an exclusive. All 3 of them also look (or sound, in the case of EGttR) awesome. e: Secret Ponchos is also only announced for PS4 right now, afaik. Crowbear fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 00:54
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Wow it was weird as hell watching that guy get all pissy after trying for some dumb "games on other platforms are just macho man shoots there's nothing new anymore" crap.
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Oct 29, 2013 05:43
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The Wii U will slowly turn into Zynga. Just like the Wii.
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Oct 29, 2013 09:09
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Crowbear posted:Hey man, I know Basement Crawl is a funny name for a bideo game and is easy to joke about, but several of the games he listed are in fact exclusive to the PS4! Hasn't SOMA only officially been announced for the Ps4 as well?
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Oct 29, 2013 09:16
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Fulchrum posted:Hasn't SOMA only officially been announced for the Ps4 as well? Nah, it's coming to PC too.
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Oct 29, 2013 09:17
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From the WSJ:quote:Nintendo Co is expected to miss company guidance on all counts – hardware sales, software sales, and profit — in its quarterly earnings results on Wednesday, as sales of its Wii U videogame consoles struggled. That would intensify pressure for a strategy shift that could transform the videogame competitive landscape. Yeah there's really no denying that. quote:The world’s largest game company has been adamant about sticking to its three-decades-old strategy of making games only for its own hardware. But the clamor for change from investors and developers is reaching a feverish pitch. They want Nintendo to release its popular and lucrative titles such as “Super Mario,” “Pokemon,” and “Zelda” more widely, and take advantage of a boom in game apps for smartphones and tablet computers to reach a new generation of users. Wait what I thought we were talking about how their console business has been butts why are you talking about putting Pokemon and Zelda on smartphones? Who are these developers who would want Nintendo to release their games on phones, tablets and personal computers anyway? I'm not talking about the analysts and investors they've been doing that for a while but now we've got developers? Wouldn't that mean more competition for them?
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Oct 29, 2013 16:56
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Viewtiful Jew posted:Wait what I thought we were talking about how their console business has been butts why are you talking about putting Pokemon and Zelda on smartphones? I sometimes wonder if there's an agenda by the PC/mobile community. "If we had Mario we'd be taken more serious" kind of thing. Sims and online games can sell millions upon millions but there isn't anything with the memorable power of Mario. It's silly though because they don't need Mario. Not only that, but Pokemon on mobile would pretty much destroy the sales of hundreds of companies. How do you compete with a Mario, Link and Pokemon freeplay game with your freeplay game? You don't. You lose. Period.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:01
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:How do you compete with a Mario, Link and Pokemon freeplay game with your freeplay game? You don't. You lose. Period. It's interesting that you imagine freeplay Nintendo games, while I imagine them not changing their ways and selling for $30 and then wondering why nobody is buying.
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Oct 29, 2013 17:50
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Do people really think any of those games beside maybe Pokemon wouldn't blow rear end on a smart phone? I tried playing chrono trigger on my iphone and the controls were terrible. I couldn't imagine playing Mario.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:03
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All phone games are terrible. Nintendo is doing really well at handhelds, there's no reason to poo poo up games by sending them to phones.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:08
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If Nintendo start selling their games on phones they are done. I can't imagine an execution of that idea that won't be all the nails in the coffin for Nintendo.
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Oct 29, 2013 18:14
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