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Demiurge4 posted:Disabling shot is also very useful for capturing aliens. A miss with the arc thrower won't hurt so bad if the drat thing can't kill you next turn anyway. The fact that you can't randomly crit and instagib the guy you were trying to capture also helps make it really good for this.
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Oct 31, 2013 11:21
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Jabor posted:The fact that you can't randomly crit and instagib the guy you were trying to capture also helps make it really good for this. I have done that so many times. It's gotten to the point where if I can't abuse the overwatch pin feature to make them sit there while I have one guy plink away with a pistol, I don't even bother trying to capture.
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Oct 31, 2013 11:26
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Not only is flush useful for moving enemies into overwatch traps, but I also find it incredibly useful for killing low HP enemies in highly defensible positions. Nobody wants a 1hp Thin Man kicking around if it can be helped.
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Oct 31, 2013 11:47
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Fire scares Chryssalids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X16YjOr29YQ (Someone with EW playing the first Slingshot mission)
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Oct 31, 2013 13:53
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Darkrenown posted:Fire scares Chryssalids: I like that Zhang doesn't seem to care that two of his rescuers are giant robots.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:00
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Darkrenown posted:Fire scares Chryssalids: Oh c'mon. Man, I'm starting to have to agree with the folks that say that Chryssalids are way too nerfed in this game in comparison to the original.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:00
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I love how Zhang is completely non-plussed by the MECs.  The robots make fantastic noises as they move around. I love the sound design in this game.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:01
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They need to give Chryssalids Seeker-like AI in EW. So that they would do hit-n-run's on lone characters rather than going face first into your front lines. On a different note. I really hope that ToolBoks will get updated to EW as soon as possible after release because I literally can't play XCom without the ability to speed up time now.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:03
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Flush's only downside is that it is up against Rapid Fire which is one of the best skills in the game. Its a straight accuracy boost for anything above a base ~40% hit chance, plus you have the possible double damage.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:14
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Looking at gene mods, once EW hits, a Snap Shot sniper with drat Good Ground might actually be good with a few gene mods--Depth Perception and Boosted Muscle Fiber. Jump up onto a roof and you'd get +15 Aim, +5 Crit, and +10 Defense, more than enough to counter the Snap Shot penalty. It could probably stand to have a small buff or two, though.
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Oct 31, 2013 15:46
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WarpedNaba posted:I've said it before, but flush is fairly useful if you can't run and gun or otherwise flank and ventilate an alien for whatever reason. Set an opportunist sniper on overwatch, use flush, and watch as the poor bastard leaves his +40% cover only to get one-shotted from across the map, leaving your assault safe and sound the next round. Is is just me, or is one of the most enjoyable things to see in the game Overwatch shooting a floater and watching them tumble halfway across the map in flames? Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 15:47
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animatorZed posted:I think someone had mentioned that the displayed percentage is rounded from the actual hit percentage. Its possible the actual chance was 99.5+% or something. 100% display is not due to round up or floating point problems, as it turns out. The game calculates hits based on geometry, so there is a failure state that kicks in sometimes where even though the RNG results in a hit when compared against the displayed chance to hit, the projectile glitches and does not intersect the target. Since damage calculation triggers on the projectile hitting the target and not on the RNG roll, this results in a "hit" that looks like a miss. Frequently, though not always, this result can be confirmed because no "Miss" readout appears above the target even though the shot does not hit the target. Please note that it is also possible to miss "100%" shots due to bugs in the Chance to hit displays. In these cases the in game chance to hit was correctly less than 100%, but the display showed 100%. AFAIK this is never due to rounding however, and instead happens because certain modifiers are not included in the display chance to hit calculation. I believe it is also possible for the display chance to hit to be correct at 100% but the "actual" chance to hit is ignoring a modifier that results in a lower chance to hit.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:06
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amanasleep posted:The game calculates hits based on geometry There is literally nothing to indicate this and I really want to know where you got that idea
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Oct 31, 2013 17:15
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Boing posted:There is literally nothing to indicate this and I really want to know where you got that idea Clearly the game uses geometry, otherwise I wouldn't have a pile of dead soldiers from the multiple train map who died standing next to Mutons because the geometry of their shots were off. 
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Oct 31, 2013 17:36
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Boing posted:There is literally nothing to indicate this and I really want to know where you got that idea Although I agree there isn't a lot of hard data to support that theory, I have point blank shots with 100% chance to hit, miss the target. In some of these cases it appears as though the rifle was clipping through the enemy causing the rifle shots to spawn past what would have been the intersection point, and then travel away from the enemy. It could also be the other issues listed, but it definitely seems like there is something screwy with hit scan. You can kind of see a lot of funkyness along these lines in that beaglerush spec ops 3 video when he shoots the rocket upwards to the ceiling from outside of the building. It seems like it's only possible because the rockets starts out clipping through the wall while he was standing next to it. So yeah it might not have a lot of supporting evidence, but on the other hand I have never seen a shot miss the target and still cause damage. We'd need to see that happen to debunk this theory. (I have seen the ones where the squad member turns away and shoots the target, but those aren't the same thing since the rifle fire still travels in the correct direction to the target.)
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Oct 31, 2013 17:38
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You guys have some crazy ideas about how things work in this game. vv That has absolutely nothing to do with how they decide to calculate hits and you know it. Zigmidge fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 17:50
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/\ Yeah not like the game has any known bugs, and it surely wasn't developed by people that might have released it with some programming flaws, or design oversights. It would be really stupid if the geometry mattered for something hitting or not, but it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility.Darkrenown posted:Fire scares Chryssalids: Oh man how can someone play with just the mouse? Also he's still keeping his mechs in cover spots. And the flamethrower can cause panic in everything, but that is a huge blow to chryssalids. It looks like he's on easy or normal so maybe they are immune in classic and beyond. itskage fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 17:54
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I've definitely seen shots that roll as misses impact aliens and spill green blood from glancing bullets, despite doing no damage. Effects due to geometry are purely cosmetic.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:56
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Yeah then that makes the most sense. I don't think I've seen it myself, but I will take your word for it.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:00
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Mr Dog posted:I've definitely seen shots that roll as misses impact aliens and spill green blood from glancing bullets, despite doing no damage. Effects due to geometry are purely cosmetic.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:21
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Ravenfood posted:The reverse is true with alien plasma shots too. I've had an alien "hit" my LR assault with several shots though no damage was done and the "miss" sound effect played. I've also both shot and been shot through what seem like completely solid walls or ceilings, but the shot just sails clean through.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:22
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So I'm going to have a fair bit of time on my hands between now and EW's release, perfect opportunity to run a proper Implassic Marathon game.  Does anyone have some general advice that'll help me avoid cutting my own throat? I've already changed my research path (arc thrower > lasers > everything else, rather than lasers > armour > everything else) to accommodate the much lengthier research times, and will be a bit choosier about my abduction mission rewards, but beyond that it's a bit of a shot in the dark. Just treat it as a regular campaign with a poo poo ton more losses in the early game?
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Oct 31, 2013 18:27
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Skip story missions until the world is covered in satellites then breeze* through the game. * deal with discs, sectopods and armored mutons on every story mission
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Oct 31, 2013 18:43
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poptart_fairy posted:So I'm going to have a fair bit of time on my hands between now and EW's release, perfect opportunity to run a proper Implassic Marathon game. There are a few things I learned from my last Marathon Classic game: 1. Keep a healthy roster and rotate troops in and out to level them up. Injuries take a month to recover from, so don't get stuck fielding rookies against Mutons. 2. Rushing lasers for the first terror mission is impossible, but the slower research pace also means you don't face mutons until much later. If you have Slingshot, the second mission can be put off until you have 6 members in your squad. I usually approach along the right side of the train and take care of the thin men there with snipers on the top of the train; I position a soldier at each node and activate them all on one turn, and then start the train with my last move or my first move of the next turn so I don't have to slog through the Muton reinforcements with nothing but ballistic weaponry. 3. Uplinks take 20+ days to build! Plan accordingly. 4. Research credits from interrogations and South America's bonus/Europe's labs are really valuable, try and get some labs up along with your workshops. I would even go so far as to say go Arc > Alien Containment to get those research credits ASAP; people usually rush lasers to get them in time for the first terror mission and that's not happening on Marathon. I would argue that getting a 6-man squad is a better boost than getting lasers as soon as possible on Marathon - those are extra grenades/rockets/medkits you can use. 5. Because research is slow, you're going to get a lot of UFO parts that you aren't going to be able to use for a while. Early game you will pretty much fund yourself by selling off tons of Alloys - you can't use them just yet, you'll get lots more through UFO missions, and you can't depend on having uplinks and satellites up right away due to Uplinks taking much longer to build.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:00
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poptart_fairy posted:So I'm going to have a fair bit of time on my hands between now and EW's release, perfect opportunity to run a proper Implassic Marathon game. Pay extra attention to planning base construction. Construction times are increased, and this can throw off timing for building satellite uplinks, power generators, etc.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:16
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Awesome, that's really good advice. You'll get the honour of being my first named Squaddie.  In between horrific losses and Beaglerush I think I've got the tactical map side of things down - I'm much, much better than I was a few weeks ago - so it's just learning the base management side of things from this point. Probably a bad idea to get into habits just before EW renders a load of them redundant, but no matter.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:16
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God drat it. I can't count how many times I've had a game end because I just realised I spent the entire month not building/researching something. Nothing like going to the situation room to fire off the six satellites I just went through hell to build this month only to realise I didn't build an uplink. This time around I thought I had my Hyperwave built a month ago, and was beginning to wonder when the Overseer would show up. gently caress it, it's already October in game and I've been on endgame tech across the board with four psionic squad members for a while now. I'm just going to call this run a win and wait for EW to come out. Spending two months saving up enough Alloys to build Firestorms, endgame weapons, and armor (in that order) also kinda sucked, especially after I successfully rushed the poo poo out of the alien base mission.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:17
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Everyone talking up the Flush + overwatch thing is leaving out that unless you have Opportunist snipers, it is a crap combo. It turns a -40 heavy cover shot into a -20, can't crit, overwatch shot, using two soldiers' attacks to do it. Of course, Opportunist is a fantastic skill that it a better choice over Executioner*, once you've got the Captain level sniper to use it. So not a huge deal, just something to keep in mind. *that might change in EW with the squadsight nerf, snap shot snipers will be overwatching less Ravenfood posted:Flush's only downside is that it is up against Rapid Fire which is one of the best skills in the game. Its a straight accuracy boost for anything above a base ~40% hit chance, plus you have the possible double damage. That strategy totally works. It may even be the superior one (there's a reason squad sight is getting the biggest nerf). But I don't enjoy it very much myself, it's kinda boring. So if you like a all-snipers game, flush is a good skill. It's pretty garbage outside of that one force an alien to take overwatch thing. Sashimi posted:Not only is flush useful for moving enemies into overwatch traps, but I also find it incredibly useful for killing low HP enemies in highly defensible positions. Nobody wants a 1hp Thin Man kicking around if it can be helped.
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Oct 31, 2013 19:28
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Does flush even work with an AR?
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Oct 31, 2013 19:37
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itskage posted:Does flush even work with an AR? Yes. Why wouldn't it? 
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Oct 31, 2013 20:07
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Boing posted:There is literally nothing to indicate this and I really want to know where you got that idea Here is amineri, easily the best X-COM mod programmer on nexusmods.com, posting on the 2k forums: amineri posted:I've been through the to-hit code a LOT, and the to-hit values are expressed in integers, not floating points. The random roll is an integer rand, not float. So from the to-hit function's 'point of view', 100% is 100%. So going back over it now, I should have mentioned the glam-cam aspect of this as it suggests a possible workaround to the problem.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:10
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I just finished plowing through this game on normal mode. What a blast! I love turn by turn strategy games and X-Com was so much fun. My personal favorite class was a sniper with the extended vision promotion along with double tap.  She obliterated so many enemies it wasn't even funny, especially since the number of heavy floaters kinda got ridiculous.I ended the game with almost no casualties. Only the tutorial three, a throw-away support, and three SHIVS were killed. I kept the same 10-12 soldiers throughout the whole game, mostly due to me playing too much Fire Emblem and having a "no one can die ever" brain.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:11
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How Rude posted:I just finished plowing through this game on normal mode. What a blast! I love turn by turn strategy games and X-Com was so much fun. My personal favorite class was a sniper with the extended vision promotion along with double tap. Congratulations, welcome aboard!  Now go back and try it on Classic Ironman and watch your Fire Emblem brain explode in the second month! I've got the same problem and it was painful as all hell getting to the point of "Well, sometimes you have to accept death." It makes you a better player in the long run, though.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:19
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amanasleep posted:So going back over it now, I should have mentioned the glam-cam aspect of this as it suggests a possible workaround to the problem. I've had all the camera angles turned off for triple digit hours now anyways, just because I don't like them and I think its faster / better looking to have everything play out from the overhead view 
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Oct 31, 2013 20:22
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Klyith posted:Rapid fire is an amazing skill. The thing that I consistently notice about people who love flush is that they concentrate most of their strategy around snipers. So they don't care that rapid fire is powerful and combos with run & gun to give an assault a huge damage, near-guaranteed-kill ability. Doesn't matter, not their job. Snipers do the killing, everyone else supports them.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:24
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I wish the game would give me more assaults so I could take one with Flush to complement the sniper element while also letting me have one with Rapid Fire. Usually I have a team of two heavys, two snipers, one support and one assault, and that one assault is there because he's the only one the game has given me in the entire playthrough. Normally I'm inundated with snipers snipers snipers. Snipers are great, sure, but sometimes I just send an entire team of snipers out just to thin the barracks.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:29
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animatorZed posted:I've had all the camera angles turned off for triple digit hours now anyways, just because I don't like them and I think its faster / better looking to have everything play out from the overhead view I like the action cam, but I really dislike how it only ever highlights hits/kills. It'd be better if they had dodge animations for shots that "missed", so they could use the action cam and still preserve some drama.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:44
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I have a hard time even considering taking flush with how useful rapid fire is. Snipers already are very powerful and I see no need to get a skill to specifically support them with another character.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:45
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Lotish posted:Normally I'm inundated with snipers snipers snipers.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:47
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Deuce posted:Yes. Why wouldn't it? I was thinking it might have been bound to the shotgun.
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Oct 31, 2013 20:48
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