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bobkatt013 posted:The first Origin was the thing that introduced him as James and the Way shitfest was suppose to fill in the blanks, but instead we got Romulus.
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Oct 31, 2013 16:47
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bobkatt013 posted:The first Origin was the thing that introduced him as James and the Way shitfest was suppose to fill in the blanks, but instead we got Romulus. Yeah, one was Wolverine: Origin and the other was Wolverine: Origins, I think.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:20
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bobkatt013 posted:Why is Daniel Way given books? Marvel shitcanned him when Thunderbolts was universally panned.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:43
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E the Shaggy posted:Marvel shitcanned him when Thunderbolts was universally panned. No, he left after he had a successful Kickstarter to publish his own stuff and do Crossed work for Avatar.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:49
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I can't believe anyone backed a Daniel Way kickstarter
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Nov 1, 2013 00:11
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Supreme Power: Nighthawk by Way and Dillon was really good and, in retrospect, the best part of that whole affair. Origins sold like crazy because solo Wolverine books are a license to print money - even recently the unremarkable Cornell/Davis ongoing started in the Top 10 I think? Way is hella lucky. Also he introduced Daken and Daken rules, but thats mostly on Marjorie Liu.
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Nov 1, 2013 09:45
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Supreme Power Nighthawk was middling at best. What if Batman could kill people? He kills the Joker. Cool.
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Nov 1, 2013 16:16
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fatherboxx posted:Supreme Power: Nighthawk by Way and Dillon was really good and, in retrospect, the best part of that whole affair. The hell it was. It was by far the weakest link and turned me off the Supreme Power books since it was the first thing I read in that setting. Only later did I find out that the main comics actually had something to say worth reading about (and art that wasn't Dillon).
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Nov 1, 2013 18:18
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To make things even more confusing, Kieron Gillen is doing a sequel to Origin called Origin II  Lurdiak posted:The hell it was. It was by far the weakest link and turned me off the Supreme Power books since it was the first thing I read in that setting. Only later did I find out that the main comics actually had something to say worth reading about (and art that wasn't Dillon). I agree with this, the SP spinoff was rubbish, main volumes were pretty good apart from the totally rushed ending.
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Nov 1, 2013 19:27
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irlZaphod posted:I can't believe anyone backed a Daniel Way kickstarter Calling something a kickstarter is like a magnet for bad financial decisions.
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Nov 1, 2013 21:34
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Didnt the supreme power books introduce like two new sets of super heroes that were totally not Spider-Man and captain america and so on and just disappeared the superman clone?
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Nov 2, 2013 00:15
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eightpole posted:Didnt the supreme power books introduce like two new sets of super heroes that were totally not Spider-Man and captain america and so on and just disappeared the superman clone? I believe that was when they tried to keep the series going after JMS ditched out (because it was supposed to be temporary) but they didn't want to use his Hyperion.
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Nov 2, 2013 00:23
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bobkatt013 posted:Way's Wolverine Origin is not the one from 2002. That was written by Jenkins Oh yeah, that's right, he did OriginS not Origin. d00gZ posted:No, he left after he had a successful Kickstarter to publish his own stuff and do Crossed work for Avatar. I still haven't read them. If David Lapham can make lovely Crossed comics I shudder to think what Way might crap out.
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Nov 2, 2013 01:05
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eightpole posted:Didnt the supreme power books introduce like two new sets of super heroes that were totally not Spider-Man and captain america and so on and just disappeared the superman clone? That series was rather interesting. It was written by Howard Chaykin (not illustrated, thank God) and the first six issues had barely anything to do with the established Supreme Power characters with a couple minor exceptions. It introduced not-quite-Marvel characters in a Marvel comic, with their powers coming from the same source as the not-quite-DC characters. I think this was when Ultimate Nick Fury was still in the Supreme universe. Hyperion and the rest reappeared in the second arc, which was actually quite readable, but nobody cared anymore. Any chance the series had at an audience was driven away by the first few issues being all Halloween 3. muscles like this? posted:I believe that was when they tried to keep the series going after JMS ditched out (because it was supposed to be temporary) but they didn't want to use his Hyperion. I don't think they were trying to appease JMS, since that shitfest Ultimate Power took place after the big Supreme Power cliffhanger.
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Nov 2, 2013 02:19
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Gavok posted:I don't think they were trying to appease JMS, since that shitfest Ultimate Power took place after the big Supreme Power cliffhanger. I had completely blocked that garbage out. It might count as a Worst Run of the Squadron Supreme concept in general.
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Nov 2, 2013 02:25
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Lurdiak posted:I had completely blocked that garbage out. It might count as a Worst Run of the Squadron Supreme concept in general. Yeah, like I obviously have problems with Daniel Way's work, since I've mentioned him thrice in this thread, but while his Nighthawk mini wasn't setting the world on fire, it was okay for what it was. If anything, I was impressed with his character Whiteface. Supreme Power was about taking DC characters and making them hosed up. How do you write a hosed up version of the Joker? Way actually pulled it off and had a handful of scenes that were genuinely chilling. Other than that, it was a forgettable footnote in all things Squadron Supreme. Ultimate Power, though? A collaborative effort between Bendis, JMS, Loeb and GREG LAND? The comic that gave us the most blatant "this is totally from porn" trace job Land's ever done? Yeah, that was pure poo poo.
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Nov 2, 2013 03:07
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Gavok posted:
But at least it gave us this.
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Nov 2, 2013 12:56
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Let's talk about the Justice Society. After being involved in awful, terrible shenanigans from Crisis on Inifinte Earths forward, DC's golden age superheroes from Earth-2 returned to glory in 1999. Their series was written by David S Goyer and co-written by Geoff Johns up until ~#50 when Johns took over full time. JSA was cancelled with Infinite Crisis but relaunced a few months later as "Justice Society of America", still with Johns who kept writing the new title from 2006 to 2009 for a nice ten-ish year long run. The last three years themed hard about raising superhero legacies, and Kingdom Come. It is implied that unless the JSA raise the legacies, the Kingdom Come future will come about. So naturally, KC's main antagonist Magog features in this story (as FDR's grandson and U.S. Marine) and joins the JSA. In one of the least exciting twists, the team splits and all the level heads go with Green Lantern while the hotspurs go with Magog. In an even less exciting twist, the hotspurs turn out to be 100% wrong, learn a lesson and rejoin the team.  And then Bill Willingham and alumnus Matt Sturges took over the title. I have two issues with Willingham. My first issue is that he leaks GOP over his comics, and makes characters into mouthpieces. You can tell by Power Girl endorsing the war on terrorism in DCU: Decisions. The second is Willingham Original Characters that carry over into every title he writes. You'll recognize these characters because they are much better and smarter than other characters in the comic. This run has both. In his first issue, the team is outnumbered so Jay Garrick gets Dr Fate and makes a quip about how it's important to have a bigger bomb than the other guy. Jay Garrick, flippant about arms races? After the first arc,  U.S. marine Magog decides he's had it with these old fogeys and the team splits, with the young hotspurs going with Magog (urgh). Those people go to a spin-off called "JSA All-Stars" where they train under U.S. marine Magog , in itself kind of ridiculous seeing as Power Girl, Damage and Hourman have been heroing for 20-40 years real world time.It's less a "this whole run is bad" as it is "he came in running and got everything 100% wrong", I suppose. Or is it Sputnik fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 22:21
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I've never quite been able to determine exactly how much of JSA was Goyer's work. Aside from the very early Robinson issues I've always seen it as a Johns thing (I guess mainly because JSA and Teen Titans were where he did pretty much all the build-up to Infinite Crisis) and Goyer was sort of there at the same time. By the way, was that the run with all the shenanigans about Shazam stealing Billy and Mary Batson's powers and turning Black Adam and Isis into statues?
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Nov 2, 2013 22:32
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Metal Loaf posted:By the way, was that the run with all the shenanigans about Shazam stealing Billy and Mary Batson's powers and turning Black Adam and Isis into statues? After CoIE, 95% of the JSA was shunted off to demon Limbo to fight Ragnarok forever (yes, really). They were brought back in 1991 in a 3-issue miniseries that didn't make no sense no how, and got an ongoing. Said ongoing was cancelled by the editor after three issues, and two years later Zero Hour happened so half the JSA died, the rest disbanded. Dr. Fate turned into Mystic Punisher for a couple years. Green Lantern started calling himself "Starheart".
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Nov 2, 2013 22:47
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Don't forget that after Willingham DC felt it was a good idea to hand the reigns over to noted bad writer Marc Guggenheim. I actually never read his run because gently caress reading a Guggenheim comic but I'm sure it was terrible. All I really remember is that it gave us this monstrosity after Alan Scott broke his neck or something.
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Nov 2, 2013 23:14
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Good lord! Has radiation from his ring given his arms tumors, or is something trying to break out of his skin?
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Nov 2, 2013 23:18
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WickedHate posted:Good lord! Has radiation from his ring given his arms tumors, or is something trying to break out of his skin? Puffy sleeves. In all honesty, I loved some of the ideas of Guggenheim's run; Jay Garrick getting shanghaied into becoming the mayor of a city that's suffered the ravages of a Superheroic Battle, and so forth. But the execution was... unpleasant.
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Nov 2, 2013 23:20
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I'm kind of digging Ram Man's new look. 
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Nov 2, 2013 23:24
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Or is it Sputnik posted:After CoIE, 95% of the JSA was shunted off to demon Limbo to fight Ragnarok forever (yes, really). They were brought back in 1991 in a 3-issue miniseries that didn't make no sense no how, and got an ongoing. Said ongoing was cancelled by the editor after three issues, and two years later Zero Hour happened so half the JSA died, the rest disbanded. Dr. Fate turned into Mystic Punisher for a couple years. Green Lantern started calling himself "Starheart". I'd never read Zero Hour when I started reading JSA, but even in spite of that, Metron randomly showing up to tell the team they have to help him fight Extant felt kinda clunky to me pacing-wise. Similarly, even though I had read the "Rock Of Ages" story arc in JLA, I wasn't entirely sure how exactly the Extant story tied into the Worlogog stuff Morrison had been setting up, probably because I never read any of DC One Million either.
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Nov 2, 2013 23:48
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It's like Marc Guggenheim misunderstood that DKR quote "He used to need a lantern. Now he is one."
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Nov 3, 2013 00:09
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I forget, have we talked about Animal Man, yet? So Grant Morrison takes a D-list DC hero and updates him. Does a really good job to establish a down-to-Earth hero with a wife and kids and writes some really good stories with him about the nature of narrative. A really good run, with a completed story arc that ended satisfactorily. ...and then other authors got ahold of the character. They took one look at all the meta-narrative stuff that Morrison had done and decided that Buddy Baker's book was the place to dump all the weird or edgy poo poo that wouldn't fit in elsewhere. Poor Animal Man had to deal with a multitude of completely stupid stories, including: - An abortion-themed supervillain. - Spontaneously slipping into alternate dimensions. - His son being abducted by a serial-killer uncle. - His wife getting a job in the Big City and immediately getting mugged and then sexually assaulted by a cop when she ran for help. - Forming a cult around his daughter. - Getting injected with super-AIDS by the government. I'm sure a lot of other things happened to him between those events, but it got so terrible that I was only skimming every fifth issue or so.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:33
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Bobulus posted:So Grant Morrison takes a D-list DC hero and updates him. Does a really good job to establish a down-to-Earth hero with a wife and kids and writes some really good stories with him about the nature of narrative. A really good run, with a completed story arc that ended satisfactorily. People trying to match Morrison's drug/insanity/whackjob weirdness after he left his books that focused on those things was always sadly hilarious. Morrison Doom Patrol had all sorts of unfathomable strangeness like sentient paintings and men could only only speak in anagrams of N.O.W.H.E.R.E. After that, what did we get? Codpiece.
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Nov 4, 2013 07:23
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Bobulus posted:Poor Animal Man had to deal with a multitude of completely stupid stories, including:
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Nov 4, 2013 11:03
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I came here to post about Way's Deadpool, but Gavok did a much better breakdown of the awful than I could.  It just always really sucked that Way took a character that was really sad and pathetic but somehow also hilarious and fun and turned him into generic wacky, edgey cool dude. And that's when his popularity exploded. I am hipster about goddamn Deadpool. 
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Nov 4, 2013 16:55
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Cornwind Evil posted:People trying to match Morrison's drug/insanity/whackjob weirdness after he left his books that focused on those things was always sadly hilarious. Morrison Doom Patrol had all sorts of unfathomable strangeness like sentient paintings and men could only only speak in anagrams of N.O.W.H.E.R.E. After that, what did we get? Codpiece. I maintain that Rachel Pollack's run is only bad when viewed next to that of her predecessor. Taken by itself, I think it has its charms. My vote for worst run is Gerard Jones on JLA, immediately prior to Morrison, I think. There were arguably worse Justice League runs--indeed, its contemporary, Extreme Justice--but the mediocrity and banality of his stretch sticks out. It was a bunch of terrible stories, starring nobody's favorite characters, such as Obsidian, Nuklon, and Blue Devil. The worst part, I think, was that Jones was trying to be funny, when the humor potential of the JLA had been thoroughly strip-mined. Thus, The Yazz, a character so bad that they didn't even bother using him as fodder during a crossover.
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Nov 5, 2013 02:28
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Bulgaroktonos posted:I maintain that Rachel Pollack's run is only bad when viewed next to that of her predecessor. Taken by itself, I think it has its charms. Yes, Jones' JLA wasn't even bad enough to make fun of like Justice League Detroit or Extreme Justice (and I say this as the biggest Blue & Gold fanboy in BSS) -- just forgettable and bland. The full team was Wonder Woman (in her black leather jacket and biker shorts), Flash, the post-Zero Hour Hawkman (whose costume I actually preferred to the classic/modern version), Blue Devil, Obsidian, Nuklon (pre-Atom Smasher), Metamorpho, Fire, Icemaiden (since Mark Waid had just killed off Ice), and the Yazz. There was also a bullshit storyline about Power Girl's mystical pregnancy, back when she was wearing a completely different white, red, and blue costume with a headband. Big Bad Voodoo Lou fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 5, 2013 |
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Nov 5, 2013 04:16
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Yes, Jones' JLA wasn't even bad enough to make fun of like Justice League Detroit or Extreme Justice (and I say this as the biggest Blue & Gold fanboy in BSS) -- just forgettable and bland. The full team was Wonder Woman (in her black leather jacket and biker shorts), Flash, the post-Zero Hour Hawkman (whose costume I actually preferred to the classic/modern version), Blue Devil, Obsidian, Nuklon (pre-Atom Smasher), Metamorpho, Fire, Icemaiden (since Mark Waid had just killed off Ice), and the Yazz. There was also a bullshit storyline about Power Girl's mystical pregnancy, back when she was wearing a completely different white, red, and blue costume with a headband. The Power Girl costume was due to her not being "Kryptonian from a universe that never existed" but instead an atlantean! In Jones defense his JLI/A spanned Armageddon 2001, Death of Superman, Knightfall, Emerald Twilight, Guy Gardner(Warrior), Green Lantern Mosaic, and Zero Hour, so all the good toys were taken. You can tell he tried to make people care about Icemaiden, Nuklon and Obsidian but in the end he was handed poo poo to begin with.
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Nov 5, 2013 10:51
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It's really amazing that the headline JUSTICE LEAGUE title back then was as far from what we today consider a JL title should be. It was super low-key, full of characters nobody knew about, and stakes that I guess were kind of high, on a good day. If the words "Justice Leauge of America" weren't on the cover, you would never know. The fact that it took until 1997 for DC to realize that "Oh hey, we should put the Big Guns in one book!" is sort of crazy. (full disclosure: I actually don't mind Jones' run, but I 100% agree it had to go, and the Morrison relaunch was the best thing that could possibly have happened.)
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Nov 5, 2013 15:33
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redbackground posted:It's really amazing that the headline JUSTICE LEAGUE title back then was as far from what we today consider a JL title should be. It was super low-key, full of characters nobody knew about, and stakes that I guess were kind of high, on a good day. If the words "Justice Leauge of America" weren't on the cover, you would never know. The fact that it took until 1997 for DC to realize that "Oh hey, we should put the Big Guns in one book!" is sort of crazy. I wonder what DeMatteis and Giffen could've done if they'd been allowed to do that in 1987. I mean, that's what they wanted to do in the first place, right?
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Nov 5, 2013 16:21
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redbackground posted:It's really amazing that the headline JUSTICE LEAGUE title back then was as far from what we today consider a JL title should be. It was super low-key, full of characters nobody knew about, and stakes that I guess were kind of high, on a good day. If the words "Justice Leauge of America" weren't on the cover, you would never know. The fact that it took until 1997 for DC to realize that "Oh hey, we should put the Big Guns in one book!" is sort of crazy. During McDuffie's JLA, the following characters were off-limits for parts of it: Superman (Geoff Johns), Batman (Batman RIP), Martian Manhunter (Final Crisis), Hawkgirl (Final Crisis), as well as most major villains of the DCU (Salvation Run). And then we had the James Robinson JLA where the most bankable characters in the JLA were Starfire and Green Lantern.
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Nov 5, 2013 16:41
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I like how everyone is bringing up lame JLA characters but nobody mentions or remembers Faith. After Morrison's run, Joe Kelly did a big megaevent called "The Obsidian Age", where the core JLA went back to ancient Atlantis to fight what amounted to a ancient League, and in the present a "replacement" league was assembled by Nightwing. Faith was the completely new character who was added, and her powers were:
Her whole "I ran away from the military and you really don't want to know about my mysterious past, trust me, because it is DARK and BAD" shtick came to a head in the incredibly stupid "The White Rage" arc where Faith's former handlers attack the JLA with a team of racist stereotypes in order to get her back. Interestingly, it looks like her last appearance in JLA was getting bit by a vampire in the Tenth Circle arc, then becoming part of Byrne's Doom Patrol reboot, which was a continuation of the Tenth Circle stuff.
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Nov 5, 2013 17:40
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Metal Loaf posted:I wonder what DeMatteis and Giffen could've done if they'd been allowed to do that in 1987. I mean, that's what they wanted to do in the first place, right?
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Nov 5, 2013 17:40
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redbackground posted:It's really amazing that the headline JUSTICE LEAGUE title back then was as far from what we today consider a JL title should be. It was super low-key, full of characters nobody knew about, and stakes that I guess were kind of high, on a good day. If the words "Justice Leauge of America" weren't on the cover, you would never know. The fact that it took until 1997 for DC to realize that "Oh hey, we should put the Big Guns in one book!" is sort of crazy. It really seems like, just by the line up, it would've been better served being called the Global Guardians but there's no way you're going to sell books with that name. Of course with that line up and whatnot I doubt it was pulling great numbers anyway.
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Nov 5, 2013 19:28
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Or is it Sputnik posted:In Jones defense his JLI/A spanned Armageddon 2001, Death of Superman, Knightfall, Emerald Twilight, Guy Gardner(Warrior), Green Lantern Mosaic, and Zero Hour, so all the good toys were taken. You can tell he tried to make people care about Icemaiden, Nuklon and Obsidian but in the end he was handed poo poo to begin with. The first bunch of those were all while Jurgens was on JLA, dude.
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Nov 5, 2013 19:34
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