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ImpAtom posted:I don't know, I'm pretty sure nobody was particularly cool with Andrew Wartfelt coming back with a cyborg arm and a face scar. It wasn't any better when Seabook did it. In general I just don't think anyone should be coming back from getting a beam saber directly to the cockpit. Andy Waltfeld and his shotgun arm is one of the few vaguely entertaining things about Destiny soooo
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Nov 4, 2013 01:11
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Monaghan posted:I'm just wondering why you still watch gundam shows The simple answer to your question: I generally don't. Usually pretty easy to tell within a few episodes if a show's going to suck or not (I blame sunk cost fallacy for finishing V and completely own up to that terrible mistake.) And yes, it really has been that bad. You've got two, maybe three legit good TV series, perhaps two good OVAs, a small handful of flawed-but-watchable efforts and the rest is a massive tidal wave of complete loving garbage.
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Nov 4, 2013 01:12
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God, I just love Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's art a lot so The Origin is something I am looking a little forward to. However, it kind of runs into problems remakes/prequels already have as the emotional arcs of the characters have already been brought to their conclusions. Also, yeah it might have less Zakerellos and the like, but it isn't TOO different from the original. But then again, watching Char fight dudes using razor sharp chakrams with a shovel might be worth it. I'm really excited for Recoquista of G, since I loved Turn A Gundam and it was such a breath of fresh air. Hopefully Tomino still has that magic touch somewhere inside him.
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Nov 4, 2013 01:26
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Turn A is easily my favorite Gundam series... not just good Gundam, but a good show all around. So I don't hate everything, full stop, from the last 20 years. But anyone who tries to argue at me that the likes of Wing, SEED or AGE are anything more than junk food for junk palates is going to find me not too terribly open-minded on the matter. And it's not even that I hate those shows, I just don't give a poo poo. Hell, I don't even particularly like anime, I'm mainly in it for the model kits baby.
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Nov 4, 2013 01:35
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My favorite series is 0083, just because I'm a fan of quite a bit of the cast along with the music and mecha porn, but if I had one request, I'd really like to see some of the ideas and concepts that SEED had handled competently. Nuclear powered suits, racism resulting from genetically modified humans vs standard humans, and the general suit design handled by a good director and writer would be pretty darn neat.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:10
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SEED had potential, but countered every interesting idea it had with two or three rock-stupid ones and basically winds up being First Gundam if it were scripted by salesmen and performed by androids. Plus it spawned Destiny, which is flat-out unforgivable.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:28
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Yeah, I did just complain that 90% of Gundam poo poo just rehashes MSG and Zeta a lot, but I'm not gonna lie, I'm fairly pumped about The Origin getting animated. The original Mobile Suit Gundam is one of my top 3 favorite anime series of all time (if not my #1 favorite), the Origin manga is quickly becoming my favorite version of it, and I wouldn't mind watching it again with brand new animation and expanded scenes. I'm fairly optimistic about it, as I figure, as long as they stay true to the manga, it should be good. I mean, it would be hard to gently caress it up, because it's not like they're even writing new material, the story is already there, and has been there for over 30 years. The Origin is super faithful to the original, and what changes it makes tend to be improvements. Granted, we don't really need Gundam: The Origin: The Anime as we already have the original show, the movie trilogy, the novels and two manga adaptations so I dunno how many goddamn times we gotta retell this story, but I certainly won't mind getting an animated version of MSG that's basically the same exact show but looks nice instead of having cheap 1970s animation. Of course, what I really dream of is a big budget, faithful live action remake of the movie trilogy, as I think if done right, live action Gundam could be really, really awesome. Course, the only live action Gundam we ever got were G-Savior and that lovely FMV game so it will probably never happen. I think I might be the only person who thinks that taking the same characters and plot, making it more gritty and realistic (and maybe throw in some super futuristic Syd Mead-esque designs), and throwing a big Hollywood budget at it would have the potential to be awesome. Of course, knowing Hollywood and Sunrise they would almost definitely gently caress it up, but it's really cool in my imagination at least.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:31
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Bimmi posted:SEED had potential, but countered every interesting idea it had with two or three rock-stupid ones and basically winds up being First Gundam if it were scripted by salesmen and performed by androids. Plus it spawned Destiny, which is flat-out unforgivable. That's my biggest complaint is the sheer lack of wasted potential. SEED had the chance to be good, great even. What we got however wound up being good suit design, some interesting side characters, a setting that took original Gundam and added some neat concepts, but then we had a Mary Stu set of main character and idol love interest that basically came in to tell everyone that wasn't on their side they were wrong and proceed to immediately be the uncorruptible, pure goodness while everyone else was bad. Then Destiny comes along and just becomes Mobile Suit Fukuda.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:39
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I have stopped even pretending to hope for a live-action MSG for fear that some bunch of idiots might actually go ahead and do it. Some dreams are better left unrealized. And while I am kind of pumped at the thought of a shiny new 2014 model First Gundam, it is very hard to argue that it is in any way necessary. And with Tomino's presumed non-involvement and so many of the original cast elderly or dead, I'm honestly a little hesitant. I really do love MSG just the way it is, flaws and all. It was a fresh concept executed well, and an obvious labor of love, so I can get around the fact that some of it looks like it was animated by monkeys. It's like, I'm pretty stoked for the new Godzilla, it looks as though it could be great and I think they totally get the character this time around, but I'm not expecting it to replace the original in my heart no matter how good it is, you know?
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Nov 4, 2013 03:07
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I've said it before: basically the only interesting original concept in SEED was the space whales, and the series should have just been about that.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:21
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It was just a lead-in for a crossover with Macross 7 that never happened. What a shame!
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Nov 4, 2013 03:23
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Take the Meteor packs, make nautical versions of them based on the space whales.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:28
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If SEED had focused on the Naturals on Earth (who were dying in droves because of the nuclear energy jammers), it probably would have been more interesting. But nope, we gotta be Gundam and focus on this one rear end in a top hat from a colony. It is legitimately hosed up that the Bloody Valentine thing keeps getting flashbacks while the "millions of Naturals are dying of starvation worldwide" gets like one small news report in the background of the first episode.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:28
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BlitzBlast posted:If SEED had focused on the Naturals on Earth (who were dying in droves because of the nuclear energy jammers), it probably would have been more interesting. But nope, we gotta be Gundam and focus on this one rear end in a top hat from a colony. Well, it wouldn't be SEED without the weird creepy undercurrent of eugenics apologia, would it?
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Nov 4, 2013 03:52
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Zorak posted:I've said it before: basically the only interesting original concept in SEED was the space whales, and the series should have just been about that. Yeah, but then it would just turn out that the Space Whales were all pissed off because we gave them Space Whale Cancer, or one would be an idiot pacifist who refused to eat Space Plankton or what-the-gently caress-ever.
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Nov 4, 2013 04:12
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On the Origin anime, I'm all for it, because it's an uphill battle getting my friends to watch the original TV anime and movies. There's a limit to what your average anime fan will watch. For me, Yamato 2199 is a good example of updating a classic show for modern times. On a lighter note:  Sister makes tempura out of her little brother's Zaku
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Nov 4, 2013 04:14
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Schneider Heim posted:On the Origin anime, I'm all for it, because it's an uphill battle getting my friends to watch the original TV anime and movies. There's a limit to what your average anime fan will watch. For me, Yamato 2199 is a good example of updating a classic show for modern times. Pretty much most people I know who watch anime want to watch shows like Bleach that have pretty boys \ girls with katanas and angel wings and black clothing with lots of zippers and want nothing to do with "my lame robot show that looks like Speed Racer." Personally, I'd take Gundam, Macross and Lupin III over Final Fantasy \ Bleach stuff and shows about girls in high school, but that's just me, what do I know? Also, I think that was a Hizack, because of the red on the feet, the vents on the chest and yellow cables. Poor Hizack. It's a little shameful that I can tell the difference between a Zaku and a Hizack even when they're melted.
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Nov 4, 2013 04:35
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Gammatron 64 posted:It's a little shameful that I can tell the difference between a Zaku and a Hizack even when they're melted. I noticed it was a Hizack too and had this very same thought.
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Nov 4, 2013 04:53
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Schneider Heim posted:For me, Yamato 2199 is a good example of updating a classic show for modern times. The best part is they're dubbing it as Star Blazers 2199  .
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Nov 4, 2013 06:06
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I had a nerdgasm when I first saw that space whale fossil. I thought that for the first time in its history, a Gundam franchise would have aliens somehow fitted into the plot. Nope. Instead, the crap that was the 00 movie became the first to have aliens as the major plot.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:47
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People once told me not to watch Unicorn unless I was already familiar with the UC timeline shows since it draws heavily on past shows and movies for just about everything, but as a newcomer to Gundam's history, I feel I'm getting more out of Unicorn than I would have otherwise.
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Nov 4, 2013 06:58
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There's probably merits both ways, since like this you can go 'oh, that's neat' instead of 'oh, that was neat when it happened in zeta gundam.'
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Nov 4, 2013 07:29
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Gammatron 64 posted:Pretty much most people I know who watch anime want to watch shows like Bleach that have pretty boys \ girls with katanas and angel wings and black clothing with lots of zippers and want nothing to do with "my lame robot show that looks like Speed Racer." Personally, I'd take Gundam, Macross and Lupin III over Final Fantasy \ Bleach stuff and shows about girls in high school, but that's just me, what do I know? I haven't seen a Hizack for literally years, and didn't bother to check. I suspected it, though (it's a little bulkier than a Zaku). Yeah, my problem is I want to get other people watching old Gundam and the age isn't helping. My friends do follow seasonal anime as they come out so they're not exactly stereotypical shounen-loving jerkwads.
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Nov 4, 2013 08:38
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That's the one thing I got pretty lucky with. Most of my friends are the ones who got me into Gundam, so the arguement of dated animation never comes up. The only thing we usually have to deal with is just varying tastes between us genre wise.
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Nov 4, 2013 08:44
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TNG posted:God, I just love Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's art a lot so The Origin is something I am looking a little forward to. However, it kind of runs into problems remakes/prequels already have as the emotional arcs of the characters have already been brought to their conclusions. Also, yeah it might have less Zakerellos and the like, but it isn't TOO different from the original. But then again, watching Char fight dudes using razor sharp chakrams with a shovel might be worth it.
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Nov 4, 2013 09:40
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Gammatron 64 posted:It's a little shameful that I can tell the difference between a Zaku and a Hizack even when they're melted. So what you're saying is that it's no Zaku.
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Nov 4, 2013 11:48
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Bimmi posted:I'd say this was more or less the intent of both F91 and V, but we all know how those turned out. I swear blind up and down that F91 could have been pretty good if it wasn't a full length TV show cut down into an OVA cut down into a movie. mr. stefan posted:Well, it wouldn't be SEED without the weird creepy undercurrent of eugenics apologia, would it? It's pretty awesome. SEED is all about how the only one who can succeed at a damned thing is the genetically perfect ubermensch. SEED Destiny managed to make the charismatic dictator who advocated actual eugenics at the point of a space-based superlaser come off as a reasonable alternative to the frantic violent thrashing and flailing of Team Princess. Also all of the Coordinators ended up with other Coordinators at the end and the only prominent Natural-Coordinator relationship in the show was broken off visibly. Kanos fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 11:51
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Kanos posted:I swear blind up and down that F91 could have been pretty good if it wasn't a full length TV show cut down into an OVA cut down into a movie. People say this a lot but I'm not so sure. I found F91 so incredibly boring that the thought of more has never appealed to me in any way. And whatever else you can say about Tomino, his work is almost never boring. He must have been Xanaxed to the gills when he made it. Still, it is safe to say that whatever potential might have been there was not served by the movie we got, which is a shame since it was the first real attempt to break from the storylines and characters set up in the original. quote:It's pretty awesome. SEED is all about how the only one who can succeed at a damned thing is the genetically perfect ubermensch. SEED Destiny managed to make the charismatic dictator who advocated actual eugenics at the point of a space-based superlaser come off as a reasonable alternative to the frantic violent thrashing and flailing of Team Princess. Also all of the Coordinators ended up with other Coordinators at the end and the only prominent Natural-Coordinator relationship in the show was broken off visibly. Well that is just perfectly ugggh. My take on SEED never went beyond "this is not really all that interesting," but I had no idea there was such a reprehensible, retrograde idea as this at the center of the whole thing. I'm actually a little mad now, gently caress that show.
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Nov 4, 2013 13:21
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One thing I really liked about SEED is how Kira actually essentially "lost" in the final showdown of the series. He was unable to provide a valid counter to Rau's arguments, he failed to protect Fllay, he failed to disable the Providence and move onward to disabling GENESIS (and only the efforts of athrun/cagalli/an extraordinary set of coincedences prevented the Naturals from being genocided) and he even proved that his pacifist ideals are something readily discarded when his life is in actual danger. I'm pretty happy with the way SEED ended as long as I wipe Destiny from my memory.
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Nov 4, 2013 14:30
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ManSeriesBrofist posted:That's the one thing I got pretty lucky with. Most of my friends are the ones who got me into Gundam, so the arguement of dated animation never comes up. The only thing we usually have to deal with is just varying tastes between us genre wise. I have one, count 'em, one friend who is local and isn't living in Canada or halfway across the US that also likes Gundam. Almost everyone I meet who even knows Gundam as Gundam Wing, and sometimes SEED, and that's it. Kinda sucks, really. My taste in anime is really loving niche, at least for someone in the states. I basically just like robots. I really love Gundam and Macross, but I'll get into the occasional super robot show too. The ones that don't have giant robots are often just fun science fiction shows like Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell. I don't really think I'm that much of a fan of anime per se, I'm just a big fan of outer space and robots, and a lot of sci-fi just happens to be anime.
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Nov 4, 2013 14:37
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Kanos posted:I swear blind up and down that F91 could have been pretty good if it wasn't a full length TV show cut down into an OVA cut down into a movie. Me too! I just watch this video every now and then and in my mind the show proper (as it would have been made) is fantastic.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:14
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BlitzBlast posted:If SEED had focused on the Naturals on Earth (who were dying in droves because of the nuclear energy jammers), it probably would have been more interesting. But nope, we gotta be Gundam and focus on this one rear end in a top hat from a colony. Wait wait. This is a thing that happens in SEED? 
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Nov 4, 2013 17:23
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Yes, that's why my personal SEED motto is FOR A PURE BLUE WORLD or somesuch, Coordinators  Basically the world had already gone over to a mostly nuclear powered economy and then *zatt* haha gently caress you all (including neutral countries), enjoy not having refrigeration and public transportation anymore! Congratulations, now EVERYONE wants to kill you (Except Scandinavia, 'cause they got hydro-power). On Gundam Origin, I'm thinking they are doing it because they've learned that they got poo poo chance in hell of gaining a footing in America/elsewhere for UC without an update to the animation and all their latest TV-shows haven't been doing too hot so time to play it "safe" (and let Tomino do whatever with G).
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Nov 4, 2013 17:56
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Dr Pepper posted:Wait wait. I'm not even surprised you didn't know, that's how much they gloss over it. Even better, one of the Big Things about the Freedom and the Justice is that they have special technology that can overcome the jammers. Lacus makes Kira swear not to give them to the Naturals. I think the show wants you to assume the Earth would use them as weapons of war but considering the whole "loving everyone is dying" thing it comes off as her being an incredibly massive bitch. Kanos posted:SEED Destiny managed to make the charismatic dictator who advocated actual eugenics The best part is that in Seed Destiny Astray R, we find out that Mars is already doing this. And it's working.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:17
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Pimpmust posted:On Gundam Origin, I'm thinking they are doing it because they've learned that they got poo poo chance in hell of gaining a footing in America/elsewhere for UC without an update to the animation and all their latest TV-shows haven't been doing too hot so time to play it "safe" (and let Tomino do whatever with G). Yeah. So much of Gundam relies on familiarity with the original series, and one of the many reasons why Gundam bombed in the US is because the original MSG never caught on (and was released a few decades too late.) A part of me really wishes The Origin would become moderately popular among anime fans in the US, but I also don't really expect it to happen as like I said, most anime fans I encounter want shounen and shows about cutesy anime girls. The majority of these folks seem to be totally uninterested in giant robots and military war dramas, and even though The Origin is updated and a little more modern, it's still 1970s as hell. I mean, just look at their uniforms. Not that being retro as gently caress is a bad thing, I think Shotaro Ishinomori and Osamu Tezuka style art is pretty rad and very full of character, and I really like Yoshikazu Yasuhiko character designs for the original Gundam, but very few anime fans I encounter seem to feel that way. Most anime nerds I encounter in person tend to be really, really shallow and have a sort of "that old stuff is lame" attitude.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:42
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BlitzBlast posted:I'm not even surprised you didn't know, that's how much they gloss over it. This is hilarious, I'm betting even the writers forgot, because the best way to describe why SEED's plot is so strange is "they wrote each episode without thinking about how it looks as a whole"
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Nov 4, 2013 19:38
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BlitzBlast posted:I'm not even surprised you didn't know, that's how much they gloss over it. Thing is, she's absolutely right, and the first thing the Naturals do after finding a workaround is go "NUKE loving EVERYTHING", further illustrating the perfectness of our genetically-engineered Jpop messiah and the degeneracy of the foolish, treacherous untermenschen.
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Nov 4, 2013 19:52
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I'd probably do the same if I knew that the übermenschen could just switch of the lights at any moment and I just got a 5 minute window (purely through luck) before they roll out their MASSIVE space genocide laser they must have spent years building for just this occasion  Of course, story wise it just served to make the Coordinators look like they were just defending themselves yada yada, imagine if the last episodes had just been (Crazy brave) Mobile Armor pilots throwing themselves at the PLANTs with railguns and wire-guided missiles in the vain hope of punching through to that giant laser while their Dagger buddies fended off the Gundams and poo poo? Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 19:59
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Darth Walrus posted:Thing is, she's absolutely right, and the first thing the Naturals do after finding a workaround is go "NUKE loving EVERYTHING", further illustrating the perfectness of our genetically-engineered Jpop messiah and the degeneracy of the foolish, treacherous untermenschen. Don't forget also that the filthy inadequate naturals were the instigators who murdered innocent coordinators even before deciding to nuke them, simply because of the coordinators' innate superiority and the lower classes' inability to accept that fact. And almost every natural commander was a giant rear end in a top hat, unlike the usually far more reasonable coordinators. It's like a series where every leader is Wing's General Septum (not that that would be a bad thing). Edit: God drat, now that I think about it, this poo poo goes even deeper. The plants are all idyllic paradises with farmers, green fields, blue skies, clean cities, and wind turbines because those make sense in space stations, while the only things you ever see on Earth are military bases and battlefields. chumbler fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 20:02
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It's pretty funny how easy it is to make Kira and Lacus the villains. Like, you don't even need to change their actions in any way.
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Nov 4, 2013 20:10
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