|
The gently caress is with your schools, every time I hear about some of these places I realize how lucky I was in my tiny little inakamura. The girls in my middle school wore tights under their skirts probably 4 months out of the year, and gym shorts under them the rest of the time (the reason I know this is because they would rush to get "changed" for gym right after class some days and I nearly had a heart attack the first time a girl popped up and ripped off her skirt right in front of me). Pretty relaxed about other cold weather gear in classes too, and they never made the kids suffer TOO much before turning on the aircon in summer. The staff, on the other hand...
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 01:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:49 |
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, besides the sexual aspect there's just that old fashioned "suffering builds character" thing that America ditched like two generations ago but is still going strong in Japan. In the Showa era, even as recently as the '80s and poo poo, you couldn't drink water during sports practice. Because suffering makes you stronger, of course
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 05:37
|
|
|
LimburgLimbo posted:In the Showa era, even as recently as the '80s and poo poo, you couldn't drink water during sports practice. Because suffering makes you stronger, of course
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 05:42
|
|
|
Bishop Rodan posted:Someone mind giving me the gist of them (assuming it's not too 小さな水着で刺激的なポーズをとる９歳の少女 = 9yr old girl wearing a small swimsuit doing stimulating poses (subs are describing the blurred pics) 性的な行為を想像させる体の動き = (9yr) Girl moving her body in sexual ways 単なる水着姿ではない性的なイメージを強調した = Not simple swimsuits, swimsuits with a strong sexual image 私は正視に堪えないですね = "Looking at it honestly, I can't agree with what I do." アイドル,まずアイドル欲しいのは = (Not sure on trans, this is the dude talking to a little girl on the street) 14歳？13歳？ いっぱいチャンスがある = 14 yr old? 13 yr old? You have a lot of chances. 少女たちは簡単に足を止めるようになったと言います = Its easy to stop young girls [and talk to them?] 布（水着）があってものは見えてなくて行為もしてないわけですから = (I'll let someone else do this) やってることはAV一緒 = The things done are the same as in Adult Videos 次第に小さな水着に替えて撮影するといいます。 = Gradually, we shrink the swimsuit as photo shoots go on. 最初は健康的な水着だと安心させ = In the beginning the swimsuits are wholesome, and calm the girl 問題としたのは極めて小さな水着などを着せていたことです = The problem is shifting/changing into extremely small swimsuits. 話してて考えさせないうちにどんどん衣服変えて水着ポンポン入れていく = Before she can talk about it or think about it we quickly change from clothes to swimsuits. (I think?) ”水着”って言葉使わない”マリンルック”って言葉使う”マリンルック” = We don't use the word "Swimsuit." We use the word "Marine Look" ... "Marine Look." (Side: 親を演劇させている親）じゃあやろうじゃあパパ応援する = Well, so let's do it! Lets do it, papa will support you! (The side says "A parent playing as a parent" meaning I think its a fake stand in for something heard before.) People can feel free to correct any incorrect translations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 06:24
|
|
)? I have zero knowledge of Japanese. 
|
Kenishi posted:最初は健康的な水着だと安心させ = In the beginning the swimsuits are wholesome, and calm the girl
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 06:26
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, besides the sexual aspect there's just that old fashioned "suffering builds character" thing that America ditched like two generations ago but is still going strong in Japan. Yeah the way my wife describes her education in Japan, this is pretty accurate. Elementary gym class in winter was (still is maybe) outdoors and you generally wore shorts and no shirt (either sex). There were always some guys watching from the fence. It is so weird to listen to the stories, as it is just so beyond the pale from a western point of view, as it is just not something that would be tolerated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
ocrumsprug posted:Yeah the way my wife describes her education in Japan, this is pretty accurate. Elementary gym class in winter was (still is maybe) outdoors and you generally wore shorts and no shirt (either sex). There were always some guys watching from the fence. "Some guys" like other students or grown adults who camped out nearby to watch?
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:The actual reason it took so long is apathy mixed in with the Yakuza having legitimate ties to the government and subtly crushing any laws banning possession (and thus making it near impossible to make prosecute in the process). The same problem is happening in Russia but that doesn't get any attention for god knows what reason despite the fact they are even worse about it. Probably because it is one in a crushingly long list of things in Russia that are going haywire. It isn't a sarcastic answer either, things in Russia... pretty drat bad at the moment (of course it is always relative I guess) and not getting better. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Nov 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 21:28
|
|
|
pentyne posted:"Some guys" like other students or grown adults who camped out nearby to watch? The latter and apparently cameras weren't unusual. I get uncomfortable taking my phone out to snap a picture of my own kid around/in her school, so I don't really understand how the behaviour is tolerated there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 21:44
|
|
|
ocrumsprug posted:It is so weird to listen to the stories, as it is just so beyond the pale from a western point of view, as it is just not something that would be tolerated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 21:49
|
|
|
ookiimarukochan posted:I was at secondary school for pretty much all of the 90s, and we played rugby shirt-vs-skins during our weekly 2 hour games period, including when it was snowing, so I'm not sure that "western point of view" is the right term to use here. I was referring to the "spectators". That said I don't recall spending my elementary gym class in the winters playing in the snow in shorts and shoes. I would also not be the only parent to have an unpleasant conversation with the my child's school, should something like that be suggested.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 22:04
|
|
|
Secondary school is 6th through 12th grade in the UK (in most places). Primary school is the one that's analogous to elementary. Although I could see something like that happening in primary school too; most of the playground activities are entirely up to the devices of the pupils, at least where I went. and ocrumsprug posted:Elementary gym class in winter was (still is maybe) outdoors and you generally wore shorts and no shirt (either sex). mega what. Are you serious? I thought even onsens and poo poo were segregated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 22:09
|
|
|
ocrumsprug posted:The latter and apparently cameras weren't unusual. I get uncomfortable taking my phone out to snap a picture of my own kid around/in her school, so I don't really understand how the behaviour is tolerated there. I wonder how drastically the sex crimes statistics would shoot up if the Japanese adopted legislation more in line with Western Europe/US. Is it just one of those "this is the way it's always been" things? It's been a while since any posts about whaling in Japan but apparently no one likes to eat whale meat, and the vast majority of it is just stored frozen in warehouses, so the whaling continuing is usually defended as a cultural thing. pentyne fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Nov 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 22:16
|
|
|
pentyne posted:Is it just one of those "this is the way it's always been" things? It's been a while since any posts about whaling in Japan but apparently no one likes to eat whale meat, and the vast majority of it is just stored frozen in warehouses, so the whaling continuing is usually defended as a cultural thing. Yeah, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with 'this is the way it's always been'. Basically depends on whatever generation of oyaji is in charge at any given time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2013 23:40
|
|
|
Reverend Cheddar posted:Yeah, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with 'this is the way it's always been'. Basically depends on whatever generation of oyaji is in charge at any given time. There's actually a significant body of literature on this particular topic. IIRC it's actually not that old. I remember reading about it in one of my classes in college. (It was a class on Japanese perceptions of the body, and we read a bunch of stuff about feminist reaction to pornography in Japan) This is from rote memory so I may be wrong, but if IIRC the underage stuff didn't start really taking off until the mid-80s. It was about that time that pornography in general in Japan became more widely available instead of just in adult bookstores. At around the same time, underage-sex manga, which later spread out into the aforementioned borderline child-porn, became a thing. I'm sure there was some of that before that time, but I believe it was then that it became more common. I know it was in the mid-late 80s that a lot of feminist groups in Japan (yes, they do exist) started speaking out against it in particular in response to that practice. That's just the weird underage-fetish thing though--if we're talking about general misogyny and treating women like passive sex objects, yeah, that goes back centuries.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 01:20
|
|
|
You know what else started in the 80s too? The 'kawaii' culture thing. I've always associated the rise of underage-focused material in Japan, with this. It was mentioned earlier on, but putting a huge focus on making "youth" and "being childlike" be (sexually) attractive, can't be helping the situation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
ocrumsprug posted:The latter and apparently cameras weren't unusual. I get uncomfortable taking my phone out to snap a picture of my own kid around/in her school, so I don't really understand how the behaviour is tolerated there. Same thing here in Korea. My friend noticed an old man hanging out at the playground one day, and after a couple days saw he was chilling out every day beating off watching the kids. She freaked out and told the school, who said they'd look into it. Nothing happened, so she called the police a week later. Their response was "Yeah he does that, don't worry about it". I've heard those stories many times, that was the first time someone I knew personally encountered it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 01:37
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Same thing here in Korea. My friend noticed an old man hanging out at the playground one day, and after a couple days saw he was chilling out every day beating off watching the kids. She freaked out and told the school, who said they'd look into it. Nothing happened, so she called the police a week later. Their response was "Yeah he does that, don't worry about it". I've heard those stories many times, that was the first time someone I knew personally encountered it. Would the cops do anything if you drug him off and stopped him being able to walk for a few months?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 01:43
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Would the cops do anything if you drug him off and stopped him being able to walk for a few months? Spoken like a true violent foreign barbarian. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 01:47
|
|
|
Stringent posted:Would the cops do anything if you drug him off and stopped him being able to walk for a few months? Imprison and/or deport you for being a dirty foreigner assaulting a pure and righteous Korean citizen, sure. You're not even allowed to defend yourself if you're attacked by Koreans here. And being that it was an old man, he's essentially immune to the law and can do anything he wants short of literal murder.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
Whatever happened to roving gangs of violent youths assaulting old people, and why don't they just assault these particular old people?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 06:15
|
|
|
TheBalor posted:Whatever happened to roving gangs of violent youths assaulting old people, and why don't they just assault these particular old people? No, this is more the norm over there, as far as I know. All fear the Obasan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 06:19
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Same thing here in Korea. My friend noticed an old man hanging out at the playground one day, and after a couple days saw he was chilling out every day beating off watching the kids. She freaked out and told the school, who said they'd look into it. Nothing happened, so she called the police a week later. Their response was "Yeah he does that, don't worry about it". I've heard those stories many times, that was the first time someone I knew personally encountered it. Is this different from the "Burberry Man"?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 15:10
|
|
|
Burberry men are flashers specifically, but it's the same idea. My middle school girls say they hate summer because of the burberry men that show up and show them their dicks regularly throughout the season.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 15:36
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Burberry men are flashers specifically, but it's the same idea. My middle school girls say they hate summer because of the burberry men that show up and show them their dicks regularly throughout the season. Jesus Christ what
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 15:37
|
|
|
How many of these exhibitionists are there? What the gently caress?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 15:39
|
|
|
Genpei Turtle posted:That's just the weird underage-fetish thing though--if we're talking about general misogyny and treating women like passive sex objects, yeah, that goes back centuries. Actually was going for more of the "I had to suffer without heaters when I was a kid, it builds character" thing but you can lump that under there too. Kenishi posted:You know what else started in the 80s too? The 'kawaii' culture thing. I've always associated the rise of underage-focused material in Japan, with this. It was mentioned earlier on, but putting a huge focus on making "youth" and "being childlike" be (sexually) attractive, can't be helping the situation. The 'kawaii' mindset (not the look) arose organically in the late seventies, got co-opted by Hello Kitty and it was all downhill from there, especially when the 80s idol queens burst onto the scene, Matsuda Seiko in particular. Oddly enough that's where you also get the weird parts of the fetish, too--people liking imperfections that remind them of immaturity and room to grow, I guess (like snaggleteeth; and literally being 100% terrible at singing but you're doing your best and people love you even more for it) edit Grand Fromage posted:Burberry men are flashers specifically, but it's the same idea. My middle school girls say they hate summer because of the burberry men that show up and show them their dicks regularly throughout the season. what in the everloving gently caress You know, I always joke that no matter how bad Japan is, Korea is determined to be the 'best' even at the terrible stuff, but jesus. Reverend Cheddar fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Nov 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
I hope it's just like the same ten dudes doing circuits of the schools around the city, but god only knows. It's not considered a problem so there's no follow up or investigation or anything. E: Actually just remembered a little story one of my friends told me, the first burberry man of the year is considered special and good luck if you see him on a test day or something. She always looked forward to that one when she was in high school, but the rest were annoying. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 15:46
|
|
|
Do they wear real Burberry? Those trench coats cost like a US grand and change, at least. Classy flashers puttin on the Ritz.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2013 19:10
|
|
|
Genpei Turtle posted:There's actually a significant body of literature on this particular topic. IIRC it's actually not that old. I remember reading about it in one of my classes in college. (It was a class on Japanese perceptions of the body, and we read a bunch of stuff about feminist reaction to pornography in Japan) I'd love to read up on this- can you remember or recommend anything from your reading list?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 00:49
|
|
|
Tollemache posted:I'd love to read up on this- can you remember or recommend anything from your reading list? Just off the top of my head Sharon Kinsella and Lise Skov are pretty good writers on that topic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 13:03
|
|
|
Genpei Turtle posted:There's actually a significant body of literature on this particular topic. IIRC it's actually not that old. If you're talking about under-age porn then you'd be wrong. There was a reasonable amount of it in Shunga and that was largely made at a point when you became an adult at 14 (So there's no "but it's Ephebophilia" excuse) - the first underage porn cartoons date from the early-mid 80s, but that's largely because that's when the OVA industry really started (largely due to people involved in the late 70s/early 80s anime otaku scene at Japanese universities graduating and turning pro - Gainax are the most famous example of that.) That said, it's difficult to really make broad comments about this sort of thing, as the extent to which pornography is censored / disapproved of / common in Japan has come and gone in waves for the past 300 or so years, for both political and social reasons (the most recent clamp-down sort of started when Japan was re-opened by the Black Ships but really kicked in after the Japan-Russian war of 1904-05 proved that Japan was a force to be recognised and was pretty much finalised after the military really took over the government after the failed coup of 1936) ookiimarukochan fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Nov 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 14:01
|
|
|
So where do I find the really dirty poo poo?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 16:36
|
|
|
The British Museum (until January) - there's at least one picture in their Shunga exhibition that is hilariously illegal under current UK law.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 16:59
|
|
|
ookiimarukochan posted:If you're talking about under-age porn then you'd be wrong. There was a reasonable amount of it in Shunga and that was largely made at a point when you became an adult at 14 (So there's no "but it's Ephebophilia" excuse) - the first underage porn cartoons date from the early-mid 80s, but that's largely because that's when the OVA industry really started (largely due to people involved in the late 70s/early 80s anime otaku scene at Japanese universities graduating and turning pro - Gainax are the most famous example of that.) Maybe I should be more specific--I'm more talking about it becoming something "mainstream" for better or for worse. It's been around for a while, but to my understanding it's never been something that's been available to the extent you see now until the 80s. Sexuality and pornography in Japan is about as far from my area of expertise as you can get, but I definitely remember "the amount of child porn available suddenly exploded in the 80s" as something that stood out in class. As for my reading list, that was from over a decade ago. I might have some of my old notes from then, but I doubt it. If I find any I'll post in the thread.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2013 18:44
|
|
|
Genpei Turtle posted:I definitely remember "the amount of child porn available suddenly exploded in the 80s" as something that stood out in class. This is just idle speculation, but maybe one reason for the large uprising of it and other things in Japan (Anime/Porn/Etc) is that the 80's probably marked the rise of VHS/Betamax. The first consumer models hit the market in the mid 70s but I suspect they were probably expensive for the first few years (Well before my time so I don't know what pricing looked like). These units allowed for dubbing and easy distribution of material. You also saw a rise in consumer digital camcorders as well (and probably a significant drop in the price of more professional versions). Prior to all of this, it would have been strictly printed material.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2013 03:41
|
|
|
Genpei Turtle posted:Maybe I should be more specific--I'm more talking about it becoming something "mainstream" for better or for worse. It's been around for a while, but to my understanding it's never been something that's been available to the extent you see now until the 80s. Sexuality and pornography in Japan is about as far from my area of expertise as you can get, but I definitely remember "the amount of child porn available suddenly exploded in the 80s" as something that stood out in class. The amount of every porn everywhere exploded in the 80s because of camcorders/VCRs, and again in the 90s with the internet and digital photography. Porn being easier to make and distribute = more porn.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2013 03:45
|
|
|
Sorry to derail the topic you're discussing, but the discussion about masculinity in Japanese culture made me think of something. What's the current situation of LGBT rights in Japan, and what is the general population's view on those who identify as such? I remember being told or read somewhere that homosexuality in general is very looked down upon in the society as it is shameful/a disgrace to the family, but that animes/mangas with a homosexual couples were actually pretty damned popular among women of all ages. This meant that they could accept it in fiction and even be a somewhat success in that field, but once it "happens" in real life it's just not acceptable at all?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2013 04:28
|
|
|
Stalins Moustache posted:Sorry to derail the topic you're discussing, but the discussion about masculinity in Japanese culture made me think of something. Trans-sexuals make into the lime light pretty often, though more often in drag than as someone with a sex change. And even in those situations, they are more there as the "Hey look, this person is really weird! Lets laugh at the oddity." They show up on Variety shows now and then. As to the seeming contradiction in anime/manga. (Disclaimer: I am not Japanese, Female, nor do I like Boys Love (BL)) I think you've missed the real point with the homosexual material. In watching how fujoshi (BL lovers) react to BL, I think the selling point isn't the fact that its two guys boning each other. That's not the "grab." I think the [subconscious] thought line goes: "Oh these two beautiful boys are in love with each other. Oooh, this is so forbidden, no one would ever do this in real life. ITS S000 HOT!." You could just as easily apply this to other topics that are 'forbidden' like love between siblings. That said. I think these same women really wouldn't have any problem with real homosexual couples though. They might frown on two girls though. But the women that are into BL isn't really any major. Its worth noting that women that are into BL, are refereed to by other otaku generally as "Fujoshi" (腐女子) or "Rotten(腐) Girl(女子)." So that might give you an idea of how most other people look at people that like this kind of material.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2013 04:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:49 |
|
|
Stalins Moustache posted:Sorry to derail the topic you're discussing, but the discussion about masculinity in Japanese culture made me think of something. It's not exactly looked down on but it definitely isn't viewed as legitimately as it used to be. Comes and goes. I guess I'd put it at the level of like, if Will and Grace-like media had existed pretty much from Jesus's day and age. The thing you have to remember here, is that in Japan the idea itself of being homosexual is a very different one than just liking to have sex with guys. I know that sounds a little like 'what's the difference?' but remember what I keep saying about  , where you are expected to marry and have kids and the idea of a child having two moms or two dads is right out. So many just go through a sham marriage to make mom and dad happy while having their real partner on the side. Many won't actively identify with what they see as a lifestyle choice regardless of proclivities. Other than that, oddly enough I think you'd find more immediate acceptance for trans people, though I really really hesitate to call that 100% full outright acceptance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2013 04:51
|
|